PARLIAMENT IN SESSION

Dominion, Volume 27, Issue 59, 2 December 1933, Page 8

PARLIAMENT IN SESSION

Further Consideration Given Departmental Estimates > COMPLETION OF FOURTEEN CLASSES .Reference to Position of Discharged Soldiers’ Settlements Departmental votes amounting in the aggregate to hv the House of Representatives yesterday. Hus represented l/classes of the Estimates for which the P ™i c MhXfer Rt Hon G. W. Forbes, obtained urgency at the com“A the morning aitling To.accomplis the task set. before adjourning for the week-end the House sat about 1o mi ■ pS rising time of 5.30 p.m. observed on aW The largest individual vote passed was that of the Railways Account of £4,939,480, and the next highest the Post office Account of £2 321,851. The other classes were the Lands Accent (£4100) parged Snides Seamen (£21,939), Treasury Department. (£33,885), Custom s e P ai g^ n (£B4 645), Land and Income Tax Department (£61,850), Stamp Duties Department (£80,420), Department of Industries and Commerce, Tourist and Publicity (£118,000) . Health Department (£723,016), and Mental Hospitals Department (£2t>2,UUU). The subjects discussed were many and varied during debate on the Discharged Soldiers Settlement Account he Minister of Finance, Rt. Hon J. G. Coates, as , sured , m^ m . ber V to danger of the returned soldiers settlements being transferred to the banks through the hypothecation of reserves totalling £t SC Further reference was made to the Wairarapa mail contract when the Post and Telegraph Department’s vote was before the House The Hon. A. D. McLeod (Govt., Wairarapa) asked the Postmaster-General, Hon. Adam Hamilton, whether he had any statement to make as to the acceptance of a certain tender to which reference had been made last Friday. Mr. Hamilton said that since the matter was last mentioned the Leader of the Opposition, Mr. M. I. Savage, had inspected the files on the subject. Mr. Savage said he 'had observed nothing irregular about the transaction.

N.Z. COAT OF ARMS Use on Wine Bottle Label PROTEST BY MR. WRIGHT Exception to the use of the New Zealand coat of arms in an advertisement of wine manufactured by the Department of Agriculture at its vineries at Te Kauwhata was taken by Mr. R. A. Wright (Ind., Wellington Suburbs), when the estimates of the department were under consideration in the House of Representatives yesterday. Mr. Wright produced a circular with an illustration of a wine bottle printed on it, the eoat of arms being stamped on the label on the bottle. '. “Does the Minister not think it degrading to the Crown that the coat of arms should be on a wine bottle?” asked Mr. Wright He also asked the Minister if he did not think such action was unfair to other sellers of wine. He would like to know who had the license to sell the wine? Was it held by the Minister or the agent? If the license were held by the agent, what right had he to compete in the‘name of the Agricultural Department against all other makers of wines? The Minister of Agriculture, Hon. C. M Macmillan, said the trouble appeared to be that the wine was selling on its merits to such an extent that some people were annoyed. The department sold the wine to an agent, who disposed of it, and stated as required by law who the manufacturer was. No license was required by any person who manufactured wine. The license was granted to sell wine. The person who issued the circular was the agent of the department. “We have materially altered the advertisement, for it did appear at one time that the department was in the retail wine trade,” concluded the Minister. RAGWORT MENACE Appeal on Farmers’ Behalf USE OF SODIUM CHLORATE The ragwort menace was discussed by several members during consideration of the Agricultural Department’s estimates in the House of Representatives yesterday afternoon. Mr. A. M. Samuel (Ind., Thames) stated that last year he had appealed to the Government to see that sufficient supplies of sodium chlorate were available to farmers for the destruction of ragwort. His remarks had gone unheeded, and farmers had been exploited by those jvho had imported that commodity. Mr. E. J. Howard (Lab., Christchurch South) : Why not make it in New Zealand? It can be produced at twopence per pound. Mr. Samuel said that was news to him. He did not know it was possible to manufacture sodium chlorate in this country. If that could be done it was nil to the good. Farmers had often been charged up to lid. per pound, and in some cases sodium chlorate was unprocurable. The present was the flowering time of ragwort and consequently the most dangerous period. The Migwort menace was one of the-biggest problems facing the farmers of the country. He wanted to know what the Minister intended to do next year. The Minister of Agriculture, Hon. C. E. Macmillan, said the question of ragwort destruction was exercising the minds of the department and Cabinet. In a statement he had made in November he had warned farmers that there would be a shortage of sodium chlorate, and advised them to place their orders early. He had also pointed out that it was not the intention of the Government to embark 'on the importation of sodium chlorate. The Industries and Commerce Department had investigated the matter and reported there was no exploitation in the price of the commodity.

“PERFECTLY SAFE” Soldiers’ Settlements ADVANCES BY BANKS There is no danger of the ownership of the discharged soldiers’ settlements being transferred to the banks through the hypothecation of reserves totalling £4,500,000, stated the Minister of Finance, Rt. Hon. J. G. Coates, in the House of Representatives yesterday. The question was raised during a discussion on the Estimates, when Mr. F. Langstone (Lab., Waimarino) asked whether the House could be given the amount that was being paid to the banks as the result of the hypothecation of reserves. He also asked whether there was sufficient money in the fund or whether it was returning sufficient interest to meet the obligations to the banks. Mr. Coates said that the money had been advanced on the security of the reserve fund, and when it was convenient for the country it would be repaid. A sum of £2,500,000 had been advanced last year, and £2,000,000 this year, making £4,500,000 altogether. It was a convenient way of raising the money without having to call on the taxpayer, and the money would be paid back either by an Interna] loan or by some other method when the finances of the country were buoyant again and when there was sufficient revenue. He could give no indication, however, when the repayment would take place. As far as the Government was concerned, it was only a matter of interest and costs. The interest being paid was 5 per cent. The original value of the securities was about £13,000,000, but some of them had been written down, Mr. Coates added. On to-day’s values, he thought that the advance was a fair one. It was quite impossible for the securities to fall into the hands of the banks unless the whole country went bankrupt. Mr. J. A. Lee (Lab., Grey Lynn) : It will go bankrupt under those who are in charge to-day. The Minister said there was no danger of the banks gaining control of the settlement" which were perfectly safe as far as the occupier of the properties were concerned. If any of the soldiers were in doubt upon the point, he would like to give them that assurance. A Member: Is the loan from the banks on the same basis as an overdraft? The Minister: Yes, it is on the same basis. It has been made on certain securities, but it does not have to be renewed from year to year. RAILWAYS BOARD Matter of Settled Policy The view, expressed by a Labour member, that the Railways Board should be abolished is not subscribed to by the Prime Minister, Rt. Hon. G. iy. Forbes. Speaking on the Estimates of the department in the House of Representatives yesterday, Mr. 'Forbes said that the existence of the Railways Board was the settled policy of the Government. The board was of great advantage not only to the Government but to members of the service. The employees knew that there was no question of political advantage, and this had helped to inspire confidence among the staff. The board was dbing good work in preserving harmonious relations.

Mr. A, S. Richards (Lab., Roskill) : Does the board lay down the general policy of the railways? The Prime Minister: Tlie policy of the board is to run the railways, bearing in mind that it is a social service. The board is called upon to see that the cost is not too great a burden on the taxpayers.

He had the approval of Cabinet to obtain a loan of £lO,OOO from the Unemployment Board for financing county ■councils supplying sodium chlorate to farmers. There would be legislation dealing with the matter this session. The possibilities of manufacturing sodium chlorate locally had been investigated by the department, which was not satisfied that it could be made here and sold as cheaply as it could be imported. Outside concerns had also looked into the question, and apparently they had had the same experience, for It, had not been considered advisable to erect works to proceed with the manufacture of sodium chlorate.

IN UPPER HOUSE

Second Reading of Bills

The Scenery Preservation Amendment Bill, Weights and Measures Amendment Bill, Orchard-Tax Amendment Bill, and Ttoyal Society of New Zealand Bill were read a second time in tlie Legislative Council yesterday afternoon on the motion of the Leader of the Council. Sir James Parr. Speaking on the Scenery Preservation Amendment Bill, Sir James said that in it increased power was given to the Minister to preserve the wonderful heritage that New Zealand possessed.

GOOD WORK DONE

Forestry Department Praised “RIGHT & SOUND POLICY” Au important statement on _ the future of afforestation in the Dominion was made by the Minister of Finance, Rt. Hon. J. G. Coates, in the House of Representatives yesterday during the debate on the Forestry Department's estimates. Referring to criticisms of the department’s work, Mr. Coates said that members should hesitate before they destroyed or cheeked the good work —much of it was excellent work —that the department was doing. . Mr. Coates said that at the Imperial Conference of 1926 a grert deal of spade-work was done toward estimating the world’s production of softwoods; and it was calculated that in 16 years there would be a world shortage. The estimate was made after a world tour by representative foresters. Since that time there had been a very severe curtailment in building, and the demand for soft-woods in other countries had been checked. World Supply. The question of substitutes was very carefully considered, but still it was held that there must be a very large demand for soft-woods, as they were all necessary, not only in the building trade, but in many of the allied industries. There was a very definite opinion based upon calculations that Now Zealand soft-woods would be requited for pulp purposes. It was found tl’.<i r the Siberian output was available for world supply for only a few months :n the year, and in .some years for only a few weeks. The Canadian supplies were fast np proaching the stage at which afforestation could in no way replace what was being removed. The United Stales had taken up the matter very seriously, bw there was going to be a gap between the time when the shortage occurred and the time when the results of the progressive system of afforestation were available. Expert Opinion. The expert opinion was that had it not been fox the temporary cessation of building not contemplated at the time. New Zealand would have been in a very fortunate position in about 16 years from 1927. He thought tha-: New Zealand soft-woods certainly would be required a little bit after that date, not only for wood pulp but for other purposes.

Mr. Coates>referred also to the planting of marram grass not only for the purpose of preventing sand from drifting, but to make land suitable later for forestry and eventually for agriculture. He thought there was room for a little more co-operation between the Departments of Lands and of Forestry in this matter. A number of highly qualified men considered that the New Zealand afforestation policy was a right and sound one. and that the time was not far distant when New Zealand would not be sorry that it had been one of the few progressive countries in regard to afforestation. LIVE STOCK EMBARGO Imports from Britain NO ALTERATION YET A definite promise to consult with breeders’ organisations and the Farmers’ Union before any steps were taken in the direction of removing the restrictions on the importation of live stock from Great Britain was made by the Minister of Agriculture, Hou. G. E. Macmillan, when the Estimates of the Agricultural Department were before the House of Representatives yesterday. The matter was raised by Mr. W. J. Polson (Govt., Stratford), who remarked that he took it that the protection of the primary producers was the function of the department. At present, in high places in this country and In other quarters, there was an organised move to have the embargo removed. If this were done there was a grave danger of the introduction of foot-and-mouth disease into New Zealand. Mr. Macmillan said Mr. Polson could rest assured that there would be no alteration in the present state of affairs without first taking the representatives of breed societies and the Farmers’ Union into consultation. Mr. H. S. S. Kyle (Govt., Riccarton) said be knew of no veterinary officer in the department, who was opposed to the lifting of the embargo. It was paradoxical that cattle should be allowed to come to New Zealand from England through Australia after hav- , ing been in quarantine in Tasmania, when the Dominion did not take cattle from Australia on account of plural pneumonia. The Minister said he had no intention of lifting the embargo until there was a general feeling among the farmers that it was safe to do so. TOURIST SERVICE “Damaging Statement” Criticism of the New Zealand Tourist Department expressed in newspaper interviews by Mr. George Groom, a visitor from Queensland, was brought before the notice of the Hon Adam Hamilton, the Minister in charge of the department, in the House of Representatives yesterday by Mr. A. .1. Stallworthy (Ind., Eden). Tlie Minister said he had seen the statements and he bad also had a letter from Mr. Groom. The complaints had not so far been investigated, but they would be and a reply would be sent.

Mr. Stallworthy: It is a very damaging statement. I hope the reply is a good one. Mr. Hamilton said he had received numerous complimentary letters from overseas visitors.

STATE SERVICES

“Burden on New Zealand”

TENDENCY TO DEVELOP

Large, Costly Departments

Tlie tendency of Government departments that start in a small way and to develop rapidly into large and costly State services, was stressed by Mr. J, Hargest (Govt., Invercargill), when the estimates of the Forestry Department were under consideration m the House of Representatives yesterday. In drawing attention to the expenditure of the department, Mr. Hargest said it was a striking example of the way in which Government departments grew from small beginnings out of all proportion to the service they performed and the ability of the country to maintain.

“I recognise the necessity for afforestation,” he said, “and I believe the welfare of the Dominion largely depends on the planting of areas sufficient to secure the growing needs of the people. Ido not, however, admit it is necessary to create a large Government department to bring this about. A group of highly technical experts to advise the Government, working under the Lands Department, which could direct planting operations, is all that is required.” Mr. Hargest expressed the view that the actual work could be done with greater economy by private enterprise. More care would be taken of growing plantations if the work were done privately. An examination of the report of tlie State Forest Service disclosed that the whole of the revenue last year was £45,195, while the expenditure was £212,383. Of the revenue the greater portion had come from natural forest, and would therefore have come in without the department’s administration. Against the revenue of £45,000 the salaries of the permanent staff amounted to over £34,000, and this was added to by wages to relief workers and others employed casually to the extent of many thousands of pounds. In addition there was an item of £97,000 for interest on loans that must approximate £2,000,000. Was this departmentsettingupas a borrowing department, too? Unless care were taken the result of the Forestry Department’s work would be to grow areas of trees smothered in debt. They would certainly provid_e labour and material for the future, but the Government’s share of the revenue would be infinitesimal. There was no occasion for the multiplicity of offices in the larger towns of the Dominion with all the attendant expenditure, when the business could be handled by the Lands Department, and the great bulk of the trees grown by private, enterprise. The remarks of Mr. Hargest were supported by Mr. W. J. Polson (Govt., Stratford). He said that he too had watched with alarm the growth of some of tlie State departments. LETTING OF CONTRACT Wairarapa Mail Service MINISTER’S EXPLANATION Questions raised some days ago in the House of Representatives concerning (he letting of a mail contract in the Wairarapa were cleared up yesterday afternoon. Complaint had been made that the tender accepted was not the lowest. The Hon. A. D. McLeod (Govt., Wairarapa) asked the Postmaster-General if he had any further statement to make in the matter as he desired to have it cleared up. The Postmaster-General, Hon. Adam Hamilton, said that the question had been raised whether he had done the right thing, as Minister, in letting the contract. As he had promised, he had shown the files to the Leader of the Opposition, who would express his own opinion to the House. “I have no doubt whatever in my mind that we did the right thing,” said the Minister. He had made his decision. he said, on the report of a responsible officer, who said that both the guarantors and the tenderer whose quotation was the lowest were not satisfactory. He knew the value of a lowest tender, but there were other guiding factors iu coming to a decision. The first was whether the tender was the lowest, and the second was whether the tenderer himself and his guarantors were satisfactory persons. A third point to be considered was whether the tenderer was the existing contractor and had been satisfactory. If so, it was only a fair thing that he should be favourably considered. A new man might have to buy another plant. Then they considered such factors as whether the tenderer was a single plan or a married man with a large family, or a returned soldier. In this particular case, said the Minister. they found that one man was single and the other a returned soldier, maimed and with a family. He was not the lowest tenderer, but ultimately they gave him the contract.

“I have no hesitation whatever,” said Mr. Hamilton, “in saying that we did the right tiling from the public point of view and from the department’s point of view iu accepting the tender we did.”

The Leader of the Opposition, Mr. 31. J. Savage, said he had had an opportunity to go through the file and saw nothing to argue about at all. He saw indications of the human element appearing in it. By that he meant that one contractor was a man with a wife and family and with only one arm, and he got preference over a single man who was very little below him in price. “I would do that if I were in the position of the Postmaster-General,” said Mr. Savage. “I saw nothing of any irregularity. If any member sees tlie file be will see very little to complain about.”

Mr. P. Fraser (Lab., Wellington Central) thanked the Minister, and said he thought the method adopted had been a good one. Obviously there had been nothing to hide.

Mr. W. E. Barnard (Lab., Napier) expressed the opinion that the practice *of the department, from a business point of view was sound and fair.

“NOTHING TO HIDE”

Broadcasting Policy of Government THE B CLASS STATIONS When the Estimates of the Post and Telegraph Department came up for consideration in the House of Representatives yesterday, several members were eager to raise the question of the recent purchase by the Government of three B class radio stations. Though the standing orders forbade them to discuss any matters of policy, they questioned the Postmaster-General, Hon. A. Hamilton, as to his intentions with regard to new stations. The debate was inaugurated by Mr. A. S. Richards (Lab., Roskill), who asked tlie Minister if he would make provision for a station of equal power to IZR for the purpose of allowing the continuation of the “Friendly Road” devotional service as carried on for the past two years in Auckland. He had a request for this signed by 20 reputable Auckland citizens, who were expressing the opinion of thousands of listeners in the Auckland Province. If the request were not granted it might result in serious consequences for the radio listeners of Auckland. Mr. D. G. Sullivan (Lab., Avon) said that large numbers of people in New Zealand desired the continuance of the B stations, but it was practically impossible for them to carry ou unless some advertising was permitted. Would the Minister be willing to allow them some opportunity to get revenue so that listeners would not be deprived of the programmes given from those stations? Mr. Sullivan was called to order by the Chairman of Committees, Mr. S. G. Smith, when he began to speak in favour of the service given by 3ZC, Christchurch.

Mr. R. McKeen (Lab., Wellington South) asked the Minister if he would state his intentions for the YA stations in Wellington. What service did he propose to give in lieu of 2ZW? This speaker also was checked by the Chairman when referring to the high standard set by the B station in Wellington. Mrs. McCombs (Lab., Lyttelton) sought to put in a word for the B stations that had been taken over, but found difficulty in framing a question in such a way as to comply with the standing orders. She asked if it were the Minister’s intention to restore the organisation of these B stations? Mr. P. Fraser (Lab., Wellington Central) said there had been a large expenditure of public money in taking over these stations, and he wanted to know what was behind it. Mr. Hamilton said he would make a statement on the broadcasting policy of the Government in the near future. The Government had had certain moral and financial obligations for the three B stations, and had decided to make them an offer as the best way of clearing up these obligations. The offers were accepted. They hoped the new programmes would be even better than the old. They had to run the programmes in accordance with the financial ability of the board. There was nothing to hide. CROWN TENANTS Reinstatement on Farms UNDERTAKING BY MINISTER An undertaking that if members could show him individual cases in which Crown tenants had not received a fair deal he would reinstate them on the same farm or on some other farm was given by the Minister of Lands, Hon. E. A. Ransom, when the Estimates of the Discharged Soldiers’ Settlement Account were under consideration in the House of Representatives yesterday. Mr. Ransom also suggested that if Crown tenants still on their farms felt they were not getting a fair deal from the district land board they should make application to the mortgage adjustment commission. The Government would stand by the recommendations of that commission. Mr. W. .1. Polson (Govt., Stratford) said he welcomed the assurance of the Minister, but at the same time be thought that Mr. Ransom was aware of only one side of the case. He knew of cases where the settlers felt they were being unfairly treated. He himself bad met eight returned soldier settlers in a particular district at their request, and they placed before him their correspondence with the Lan»ls Department. These were men actually broken down in health by the continual letters from the department demanding an increasing portion of their dwindling cream cheques. Why not meet those men by a reduction in tlie principal sum instead of postponing interest and piling up around them a capital sum that created nervousness and could not be repaid? he asked. Mr. H. G. R. Dickie (Govt.. Patea) : Have these men been to the commission ? j :

3lr. Polson said there was a natural repugnance on the part of many men to do that and place their private affairs before a commission. A Member: What nonsense!

Mr. Polson considered the time had arrived for a further review of deteriorated properties. When the existing tenants went off there would be difficulty in getting other tenants to take their place. Tlie only way was to write these lands down to their real value. Some of them had no value at all.

3lr Ransom said ho had no desire to harass tenants. The general taxpayer could not be expected to pay amounts due by Crown tenants in cases where the latter were in a position to pay. The deterioration of lauds was a question that would be taken up when revaluation was under consideration. He had letters from Crown tenants thanking the department for the consideration they had received.