THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 12, Issue 37, 7 November 1918, Page 7

THE HOUSE

The Houso of -Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. - ( Tho Prime Minister, gave notice, to move that all pactions not finally'dealt f, . with during the session of 1917 and the first session of 1918 should he referred again to the committee-to-.which ihoy were; origiiiilly referred. WAR LEGISLATION. The .Prime Minister gave notice that he would move to-morrow to introduce the War Legislation Bill. The Minister of Defonce gave notico of the Military Decorations'and Distinctive Bridges.Bill. . CHRIST'S GOLLEGEi Mr. L. ,M. ISITT (Christchnrch A'orth) moved the second reading of the Christ's College Ordnance Amendment'Bill. • I Tne Miuif/ter of Education (Eon. J. A. I Hanan) said that h?'had not. had au opportunity of reading the Bill carefully, but,felt it right to stato that he might : have to take exception to soma of the provisions of the £ill. Mr. .r. . M'COMBS . (Lyttelton) said the Bill; should bo explained - to the House. Its .'-provisions might be. conferring powers upon private persons who were.not responsible to the people.- Most •'of, tho revenue of Christ's College was derived from provincial endowments, and the Bill- might be interfering with- future legislation, which would bo' in the direction of co-ordinating the whole of tho educational, institutions ot the country, ' ; / i

; Mr. K.G. ELL(Chrifitchurch South) said-he"disagreed with tho suggestion made by the. previous speaker that the House should practically seize a private 'trust. ■'' ■. . .' ■ ' :"• : ' ■•' .. - Mr; M'Combsi Public funds. ■■'-' j ■ Mr. Ell-i "It is a private trust." He considered it would be a ; nipsf -'dangerous thing■■ to deny to private -persons' Him t Tight to bequeath' property 16. educational 1 purpose's by way of. trust; . He hoped :there would bo no ' Merferatice with' such a school as Ohrist> College, which I had something of tho r.tmosjilisjj, of tno English public schools: .. ' ' .■.".' Mr. Isitt,»in replj-, said[the purpose rt( the. Bill, was 'simply to/democratise tho Board of Governors, which Tits at pveeent on appointment.,-Ee-■presentation:wa3 io be gi-ven'to the old boys..- > -.•.'■■■ ,■.•.; ■ -.-••• ■■~-■ -■:■,. The Bill was read' a second' time 'and referred to the. Education Committee; v ; NE\y BILLS.'•'; ■ ' ■ The following Bills were introduced, and read a first time:—Napieiv flarhour Board Loan • Enabling Bi),l '■' (Sir John Findlay), Inglewood County. Bill . (Mr. , Wilkinson), New Plymouth 'Borough' and - Harbour Board Exchange Bill (Mr. S. '■ G. ADDRESS-WLY ■ . Tip DEBATE RESUMED > COST OF LIVING. ... Mn-.W. T..-Jl'-NNL\ t g6-(Taumarunui) resumed the debate; on the Address-in- ■ Iteply, and pointed out that 'there,was great discontent in the country owing to the cost of Hying. With reference to . opposition raised to the Military Service .Act by Mr. Holland, member for Grey, Mr. Jennings said that in the days of the-Maori War conscription was tho law of tho land, and one would, not dare to refuse , , doing military .-.duty then, i Regarding medical examinations, Mr. Jennings could not understand why. ■a doctor should pass'a man-'as.fi't for military service, arid yet refuse him for. life insurance. : lio knew ;Of such an instance having occurred.. Tho huge indebtedness which was accruing in the country was a matter which deserved the attention of the Finance Minister.! Local lwdies and private people were owing: large sums as well as,the Government, ,; and the matter was serious. The Minister, of Public Works had wfused to in l crease .the pay of .men, engaged in the backbloks beyond lie. a!day, whereas the cost of provisions in' these' 'districts' was. 150 to 2flO per cent, more than in the towns. ' . i The. Prime Minister:' When] did you «ee him? : ', . , '--■■■■ Mr. Jennings: In Ihe conrse of a deputation about two months ago.

) 'ihoPrimo Minister: AVpU. you sco him >w. . . ; Continuing, • Sir. Jennings urged' that the Government should turn its sitl'oution to the shipping combine, which was exercising a'baneful influence on the country. The .education system'ncwled revising, ■ The National Government, AKIh-'Ji: JSITT (Chrislcliurch North) considered Hint the work done by the Dominion's lenders at the Jmpcrin! Conference hnd beoli of great value. Jlo opposed the return of the- German colonics, contending' that, the reoeciipalioii , of those territories would not only imperil, the interests of tho Dominion and. Australia, but would endanger the whole of the' British Empire. t It would bo a terrible crime to let Gorinany's einsgo unpunished. In tho name of humanity, common tense, and civilisation, they should leave Prussia * nothing which would enable her to endanger the future peace of the world. The. Natiounl Gn?--ernment had been true to the work for which they had , been appointed—that of helping to will Ihe war. They had done their, duty, in introducing the Military. Service Act. Jlo. believed the vast majority of the people favoured the National Government, the formation of which had not been opposed by the Labour members. There was a feeling throughout the country that profiteering had been Allowed .-.to go on to an undue extent, but when one fully'considered the matter it would be realised how difficult, a task it was to solve the problem of the cost of living: There were very few retail tradesmen in Neiv Zealand to-day who knew -whether tho war was going to bring them profit or loss. Mr. 'Isitt blamed tho Government for allowing an enormous amount of unproductive expenditure while at the earno time businesses , were not-allowed-to expand in directions that would mean absorbing labour; Picture palaces had been built all over the country during the war period, and some of them wore now being .scrapped. ' Horseracing had been allowed to proceed almost unchecked, and' .£5,000,000 ,a year was being put through the totalisator. National waste .of this , kind was not considered with the avowed policy of.the Government.. He was willing to lot bygones be bygones. But at this present time thousands of New Zealand people were making profits out of the war, while on. the other Dajid large sections of'the N workers were asking, and asking*' justly, for improved financial conditions. It was a hideous injustice, that while certeiii men were adding hugely to their wealth during the war, other men were suffering hardship. There were hardworking' men in New Zealand to-day who ■were being compelled to use their'sinall. savings to supplement their wages in order to provido for their families tho ba're-'necessities oF life. Mr. Isitt urged that'{LiCTO Was .need of effort to instil patriotism into the hearts of the children. The war. uhould have taught tho nation .'that it was a djity to foster the spirit of patriotism that was ' the basis of all'true : citizenship. He suggested that 'all persons serving the country in any capacity should •be required to take an oiitii of allegiance. (

. Produce and Prices. ;■ Mr.. J. PAYNE suggested that the Labour Party'ought to realise ■that it-.must, walk before it could:.run. ■A tremendo\K change had to be wrought la public opinion before the ideals, of Labour members'could bs realised. If j. i'pe Labour Party had been more practical in its methods and aspirations • it' niight have provided a channel »for the expression of tho popular discontent with .the.[National. Government. There- had ncyer-jbeen any excuse .for the workers .being- charged more than pre-war.rales for rh(! articles of consumption produced in... New: Zealand. All tho essentials of nfo' were produced'locally, and'.people who wanted imported goods in war tiiae ought to be prepared to pay through the noae. : He did not join in condemnation of the farmers; The New -Zealand farmer, had' averaged something like ad. per lb. for his mutton. Tho cost'landed, m England'was about 7Jd.. and the price < charged > the retailers had been from •Iβ. lOri. to 2n. Ml per lb. Most of this huge -profit had gone outside the Jimpire by tacit consent 'of tho National ■Government.. The Meat Trust had been allowed to make huge profits out of NewZealand meat. He objected to the continuance of the existing contracts after •the, war., .The .producers and the conBumere had been-fleeced longenough. x Jhe Meat-Trust. • The Meat , Trust was in operation, in -New Zealand, and in the future they would .have to look for n further extension of its' activities, unless steps were taken to check its influence. This was a time for • reconstructioii And the' adoption of α-broul policy of development. The-iron industry should ■lα developed, also the timber industry. A comprehensive scheme of afforestation should be prepared, and the adviceiof ,-,n expert should bo secured, whose services should be adequately paid for. The expert's rec.nmendahons .should .be carried out, sothat in the future there would be plenty of Hmber' available for the necessities of the primary industries. Ife aifvo.ca'ced that nothing short of a State monopoly.of banking'would enable the Dominion lo work out its intenlal' financial arrangements, and make progress with its internal development. A Lead Wanted.

Mr. C. E.- STATHAM (Dunedin Central) Eaid there was very little that'was new in the GoVernor-GenerVil'e Speech. I'here was nothing in the Speech which showed that the Government intended to meet the great problems which faced ■them to-dny. The Government should

givo iv lead to the solution of the prob. kins of the day, bin lie was afraid that more often it hail lo be driven. ]u every ssenso of the word the iValional Cabinet seemed.to be a very heavy learn. "VVhothor thoj' ,are pulling ugai'uat one another or lack combination," .1 cannot say," said Dr. Statluim, "but they seem to lie very unwieldy in their move-1 tneiits"' The State should lake over, the j wholo education system from thu kindergarten to tho University, illcur, hear.) There was overlapping in (lie mutter of secondary and technical schools. Provision 'should bo made for continuation • schools. Youths should bu compelled to go to continuation schools during one lvook, and then nark at their trades tho nexl. He mads .that suggestion as he did not favour youths being compelled to aflend. such schools at night tune. The Government should take up t-lit) question of the gold standard because it affected the Dominion's mining industry. There should be an in-', crease in value of-tho gold standard. •Unless that were done they would encounter difficulties after tho ivar by reason of 'German' trade competition., The Government should tackle the problem of hydro-electric power, from a national point of view.' If the Dominion was to go ahead they would have to put into i power a Government thai, would develop the natural resources of the country. The Government had never really Uokl'ed the question' of taxation, which should bo placed upon a proper footing. The electoral'law wanted overhauling, and there were a number of other domestic' matters that required revision! The Civil ■Service should also bo the subject of consideration. If the present: arrangements were allowed to continue they would be unable to attract the right class of man into the service. ' With' respect to the cost of living, he thought that a I'ood Controller might hnva'been npnoinctd and have performed useful service. Ho knew the farmers were entitled to receive prices which were io l>B cQiilmavickd in the world's markets, but they should not receive abnormal prices.

Minister -Replies'. . .The-lion.. \V. D. S. MA.CDONALD (Minister of : Agriculture) said they had>. lward a good deal about a "great- development policy." Surely tho; members who had' ialks.il. in that lasiiion could not -have given the matter very-'much., consideration. There had ken. a great deal of criticism of Ihu National Government on the part of lion', members, but wliat had' thu latter being doing in the recess to htlp the Government: , t ; :■ Mr. Payne:.,fciwe/irilig at the-National Governiuenl. . (Laughter.) ■ Mr. MacDonalu: They have, been asleep ■during the recess. They wake up suddenly when ■ Parliament opens and tell the- Government what ought to be dune. ' Mr. D. Buick.(Palniersion. North)'■ But you are paid for it. ■' - - Mr. Mac Donald: You say the 'Government has not aroused the people, 1 have evidently aroused some of my \ hon. lriends. (Laughter.) .. ' .. Mr.- 'Mac Donald. added that" ho .could ossuro the House 'that so far' a= the 'National Government was concerned they l^'id 1 given careful consideration to every 'pluwe o£ the important questions that had been raised uuriiig the debate. Mr. .Buick:! Wti.teß.no results'. ~ '." '.' "Wo have heard a" great deal, about profiteering in this country," eoiitiimed jvlr. MncDonald, "anil, 'what we ..should liavtS done ngaiust trusts. Well, a Bill «ill be 'introducud this session to deal ivitii the'trust question, But, 1" want to inform.. those, gentlemen who. know so little about tho farmer that" so" far as the.-trusts are ' concerned, «ii(l.'the exploitation of the farmer.is concerned; he-.(the farmer} has. the. matter in his own hands. So far as beef, mutton, lamb, butter, cheese, and wool arg concerned, the farmer has had the privilege of selling to the Imperial Government through the New Zealand Government. If-every, slieepiurniei' sold his products through the Government there would bo iio c-xploitiitioii." The people who ivoer ■helping the trusts were those who were selling .their products to them; It had been.said- that 'there was exploitation with regard to wool. The Imperial Government had purchased the 1930-17 wool clip, and it was very doubtful if the' whole, of that clip had reached. 'JJiigland'yot, and out of the whole of that only 20 per cent, had gone to tho manufacturers. In spite of whiit had been said, the prices of the ■ goods- that were, manufactured were controlled by (ho Imperial Government.' Tlie 11)17-18 wool clip'ivas in New ifyaland, but it was paid for'by the Imperial Government. Therefore, he asked, who could be said to be exploiting that wool ? It was s" till in the country. He could not- imagine people saying such silly, idiotic things as had been naid about exploitation in regard to wool. The.1917-18 wool clip had been purchased by the Imperial Government, ,aml the money*piiid for it Was helping to keep the Dominion sound and h'nancially strong. They had been lold (hat tho sheephirmere were extracting the utterinost'farthing out of the Imperial Government. Tlie Imperial wool requisition commenced in Utlti. In l!)15-l(i, ueforo tho requisition, l the New Zealand wool clip was worth nearly as much us the farmers were getting to-day. He wanted to know where there was exploitation in respect , to : the WJO.ODO bale.s of wool that wero lying in iV./. to-day. A', total of 5.250,000 cnrcns3cs ! 'of mutton remained in New Zealand—practically the whoio of-tiie seasons output. AVhere was the exploitation there? Those were matters which'.people did'not understand.. They ■were told that t|ie present was the time to go.in for State shipping. Was it a sane proposal to (suggest that tho Government should buy ships now? "Was there an opportunity of purchasing shipping that would be of any uso to the Government?' ,'

A member: Yes, the Union Steam Ship 'Company, at pre-war,rates. Reasonable Progress. Resolutions were being iirjj'd upon the Government to spend i' 0.000.000 on school buildings alone. Was there any chance of gettiug the labour for such a programme at , the present lime' All the members of; the National' Government realised the importance of education and wished to push ahead. But progress must be at a reasonable pace. Ho did not agvco with those who urged liiat the Dominion should have rushed into a huge expenditure on the dovolopiaont of hydro-electric power. .Every Department was ruakiujf preparation for the future, but it obviously would not be reasonable to undertake a vast scheme-of development,in the midst of u great war, while ICO.OOO men were out of the country. He believed that the country would lose nothing' by the delay. It would be able to develop water power in the future with the assistance of the test expert advice,and in the iight of tho e.xpcrience of' other countries.

Mr. Mac Donald denied that the farmers had exploited the public in connection with wheat production. It was a fact that lioi'oro tho war many farmers had worked without making any 'profit at all on their produce. Their only profit was the increased value of their land, lno farmers had not "gone slow" in regard to wheat. They had greatly increased their area, but unfortunately the returns had not been up to expectations.' It should be rememboiod that much of the land would not grow -wheat- now without fertilisers, which-wore not easily obtained during the war. Ho mentioned in that connection that the Geological Survey Hranch, vfti spite of shortage of staff, had produced a valuable report dealing with tho limestone and phosphate deposits of tho Dominion. This report would bo placed before, the House. Tho Minister quoted figures to show that Bomo fanners had grown wheat at an actual loss. The present position . was that ihe prices of (lour, bran, wheat, pollard, and bread woro controlled by tho Government. Ho was satisfied that Hio wheat-growers woro not making unduo profits. Tho millers had offered to hand over Ihoir mills if paid 25 per cont. on-tlioir't.iipitnl. The bakers wore mere, ly existing It was true that bread had been kept at a low. price in England, but tho T'ood Controller had required a vote of J;,10,000,00fl to mako this possible. New Zealand was not badly off in connection with foodstuffs. Tho prices wero low in comparison with other countries, and tho eupply ihacl always been ample, ft' the Government had not taken action to check increases, flour and sugar would .certainly have been dqarer than the? woro to-day. The coal question had been tackled seriously by tho Government, and the Board ol Trade was at present investigating the whole industry. The report would go before Die House ■ later. The local shortage of potatoes was not the fault of the Government. The area sown had been , ample under ordinary conditions, but the crop had been disappointing.' Tho Minister mentioned tho wheat purchase and the effect

of ocean freights on price?. Australia was often quoted tiyuinst tho (.iovvrnnient, but meat, lo take one example, was cheaper in jNow Zraliinil than in any Stale of Australia except yiirensland. The dcvelnpmvnl of the -N'cw Zealand iron imluslry was a. mailer that had been mentioned very often in the House. 11 had never been sliuwn that iron could be produced profitably in this country, tiis own idea was that the development of (lie iron industry would go hand in hand with the di-vplopmeftl of wnlerpoivci,. The Government had done a .good-deal to encourage mining, anrl tho 'production of gold, sc-heelite, coal, and oilier, miuerals' had not decreased ticr'iously in spue of the shortage ot labour brought about by the wai". But it was absurd (o suggest that the Government ought to go ahead with a great policy of development, at such a period. Tim time for that would come when tho soldiers canii! home. Ho believed that soon the dark clouds of uiir would roll away and that the soldiers would come back to a sound, prosperous. country.. Tho work of tho Minister of Defence and of other members of the Ministry would redound to the credit of tho Dominion in' the yeai'3 to come. Necessity for an Election. Mr. W. A. Veitch (Wanganui) said that the National Government had not given any inspiration to tho people, who were deeply interested in ths successful conduct of the war, despite the fact that they had made complaints on some matters. The Labour section of (he Houso had been very scathingly criticised by members, but he .predicted that the amendment of no-confidence- which t had been moved some .days ago would pro.duce good results. To suggest that the holding of an election during tho war would militate against tho winning of the war was a reflection upon tho loyalty of the people; of the Dominion; He advocated that tin elc'ction'tfihould be held iis it would provide for the return of a !>trong opposition, which was a very desiriibitt thing to accomplish. Proh'teer- . iritj had gone oil to a certain extent. The producers of tho Dominion ehould be allowed to make a certain amount .of profit, which, however, shouM bo subject to taxation for the payment of war expenses., Tho Government had borrowed a great deal too much, 'ind collected .too little by means of taxation. . The 'member for" Christchurch North had said that the Labour members hail consented to the formation of. the National Government. , What.Hie -Labour rneniticrs did soy was that Hip amount of ■support, or opposition which they would give to Ihe Governreent would depend entirely upon' the conduct of. the Government. That liad proved to he a wise decision. There should .be a .complete '.reorganisation'of. the country's Parliamentary system and procedure. Instead of ten or eleven members seizing the reins of-.Government,, under tho control of one man, as happened at present, Parliament should take the form of « conference rather,, than nil .assembly, of wranglers. The system of Government should embrace every member of iParliament. Every member should take.tfome part in the government of Hit: country. Cabinet shouli carry out its work somewhat, along the lines it; followed at present, hut .instead of. going outside of Parliament to seek the advice of. people who were not - tho- elected representatives of the people they should iscek the advice of tho people's elected representatives. They needed .a. great jnoro sincerity iu tlieii . Parliamentary life, and a good deal more earnestness in their public lil'.e. He was -afraid that tho Government was just about as much prepared for pence na- it : -had , been ready for .war.- If the country was to progress • they should go. iu for ii great deal more labour legislation than--they had done in the past.. ■ The problem,- of casual labour whs one which needed/the urgent attention.of the Government.

Conclusion of the Debate, Mr. G. J. ANDEIISON .(MataurS) rose shortly befoni 11 p.m; .to commence his speech in reply to t'ho remarks which had been made, in tho course of the debate. He expressed tlio hope that those 'men who. had' shirked their duty-to the Dominion during the war should be made to suffer for their contemptible cowardliness.' Before Parliament dissolved they should place on the Statute Book a law that would prevent conscientious objectors from ever exercising civil rights i by voting at Parliamentary elections, or (sitting in (he Legislature. The Prime Minister then moved that the' Speaker, accompanied by members of the House,.ehould, on a day to bu appointed Ijy the Governor-Gen-eral, present, the Address-iu-lieply u> His Excellency. . : The motion was carried. On the motion of tho Prime Minister, the House adjourned at 11.5 p.m. until ■2,0 p p.m. to-day.