DEFENCE AFFAIRS

Dominion, Volume 11, Issue 179, 18 April 1918, Page 5

DEFENCE AFFAIRS

EVIDENCE AT THE COMMISSION OUR TRAINING SYSTEM VIEWS OF AUSTRALIAN OFFICER The Defence Expenditure Commission sat yesterday morning for the-hearing of evidence. Brigadier-General Sir Robert Anderson presided, and the other Commissioners, Mr. Charles Rhodes and Air. P. Ban", sat with him. Henry Skinner Forsyth, iiitely Lieuten-ant-Colonel in the Australian Forces, gave evidence at the invitation of the Commission. He gave account of his service with tho A.T.F. in an administrative capacity in this war at Cairo and in London, saying that he had been D.A.Q.M.G. in Ixmdon, and Commandant of the Base Headquarters at Cairo. Too Much Time Wasted. He considered that the bulk of the sixteen weeks spent in training troops here was largely waste time. The, chairman: Did you tver know credit to be given on the arrival of (roops in England for training received before embarkation? Witness: I. never knew it given once. Tho chairman: Would the man getting, say, one month's training here be treated differently from the man gutting four months' training? Witness: "1 think not. To the best of my knowledge T believe not." Colonel Forsyth went on to say that the bulk of tho men forgot on (ho voyage all that they had learned in enmp, and also lost the benefit of their physical training. They landed at thfir destination practically fresh recruits in every sense. He considered that if the troops acquired n very rudimentary knowledge of drill here, nnd did a little physical exercise that would be finite sufficient, and this could be easily done it: a month. The chairman: That would save cost? Witness- I should say enormous cost. The chairman: It would save tho cost of the man's keep, nnd would also allow him to lemain longer in productive work? Witness: Yes. In that respect there would lie double saving. Colonel Forsyth urged the Commission to cable to the officers in charge of training of drafts of reinforcements in Rutland and Eiypt. He was sure of all he had said, but he would like the Commission to corroborate his statements. He snoko only of what he had seen, and was not givinj; bis opinions merely. • Staffs For Troopships. With regard to the control of troops on transports witness gavo it as his opinion that there should bo permanent staffs of three or four n.c.o.'s on troopships. Tho O.C. troops on a ship had to choose his staff for the voyage, and they did not learn the work on ono voyage. For this work it would be necessary to have only three or four men, and they need not be "A" men. If trained men were in control under the O.C. troops, the conditions en the 6hip would bo better for the men, arrangements would go along more smoothly, nnd much waste would be prevented. "I have," said Colonel Forsyth, "actually seen a man after a bad night at sea take his otd, and say: 'Oh, to hell with that,' and throw the whole lot, bed an. bedding, overboard." Tho chairman: You are speaking of Australians.- New Zcalanders are not as bud as Australians. In reply to Air. Barr Colonel Forsyth said that he had had experience only with the Australian Forces, .but while ho was in Cairo had lioen in close touch with New Zealand officers, and he was sure from his conversations with theso officers, that the same remarks would apply to New Zealand Forces as to the Australian Forces. Too Much Sentiment. Colonel Forsyth stated his opinions also about the treatment of returned soldiers. "It is well to bear in mind," ho said, "that this military life" is to the ordinary civilian a. very unsettling one, and under any conditions there will bo difficulty about settling the men down for a good many months after their return. That being the case, I think the difficulty is being accentuated by mistaken kindness on the part of tho Government and other organisations, both hero and in Australia, who give the men too much consideration, nnd so carry on tho restlessness winch they have acquired at tho other side. Aly idea is that when theso men como back the duty of the Government should be as far as possible to put men back into thoso walks of life from which they come. An appointment should be found for them, but I think that the responsibility of the Government should ceaso attar an appointment has once bo found for a man. Having once found a man a job that should be tho end of it. Land Settlement Schemes. "I hear a great deal of talk about I putting man on the land, and although ; it sounds very nice, I think the Governments aro courting disaster by putting unsuitable men on the land, 'men who know nothing of agrieultu.ro or. fanning, or anything elso of the kind. If the authorities do consider that tho bulk of tho men should go on the land, then they will havo to establish colleges or schools and tench tho men the rudiments of farming. Otherwise to put untrained men on farms is perfect madness. Tho men will not stay there. They cannot possibly) stay. I don't think farming is picked up in a day, and oven after a year's practical teaching at an agricultural college they will have much to learn from practical experience. Then after- this training in t, college tho men may havo a good chatico of making a success of. farming. I think tho Government should put men back into a position similar to that which they had left. If the Government attempts to put them on the land, they should .be thoroughly taught first. "I have heard of a good many men who seem to think that because they havo gone to the front and risked their lives—and they were splendid fellows on active service, but there are different classes of men there, as here—and men of ono class seem to think that it is the duly of tba Government to support them and their families for all time. 1 think tho sooner that idea is dono away with the better for everybody.' The chairman: You seem to think that excessive kindness is) making jolly good fellows into useless men? Witness Yes. And it is a. mistake for the Government to send city men into tho country. They are sure to tail. The chairman: Without training? Witness: Even after training, I think there is a big chance, of failure. If a man had been on a farm before enlistment, or if he had been wared on a farm I should say put him back on the and at once. But I do uot approve of putting clerks or drapers on faims. Economies. He went on lo say that if wo adopted q'nolicv of keeping men in New Zeahnd oamps oulv for a month big economfes coukl be effected. Another big eavS coud be made in the outfit given o men for wear on the ransport, Ho oght dungarees should bo «ervod to H, fi men for the, voyage. At preont men wore their ordinary service mi forms, and the wear was so bard on Jhn voyage that the uniforms woro_nraccaUy3 * less at the end of it. From his knowledge of camp routine bo would sav tha it would be belter for some re, turned men. unlit for activo serv.ee, to be put into the camps to do sanitary and other fatigue duties. Recruits should not have to waste their time ou this W Tho chairman: They have dono that hero already. ' Witness: I am glad to hear it. iliac is a very important step in the right direction. Witness said that if a permanent staff were maintained on transports saving could be made in the articles issued to men. It was within his knowledge that unnecessary articles were issued to men on the transports. Military Police. Captain .loiiii Cecil Hill gave evidence. He said that ho held the position of assistant' in New Zealand, and in runt; capacity was in charge of military polico and wharf guards, lie was appointed assistant provost-mar-shal on April 9.1917. Jn civil life he had

Seen a. lea planter in Ceylon, and pre* viously lio had had five years' service n» an officer in the British Army. He was in New Zealand on holiday at the outbreak of war, and he volunteered. Ho served with tho N.Z.E.F. at Suez, and was at tho landing at Anzac on April 25. Ho said that there was the greatest difficulty in getting suitable men for military police. Numbers of men could bo obtained, but not of tho right kind. It was most undesirable to havo men in the force of doubtful character. In tho' apprehension of deserters the military police worked in with the civil police. If a civil policeman arrested a deserter, a reward of £\ was paid to the arresting policeman. A. man did not become a deserter until he had been twenty-nno days' absent Without leave. . As the number of mcn"absent without leave was considerable, causing permanent shortages in camp, he would advise the payment of a less reward, say, 10s., for tho apprehension of men absent twelve days from camp. At. present tho police did not trouble about men of this class. Tho allowance to military polico for separations ami rations was Is. a.-day.-.Tho home service men insisted on getting allowances as good as the activo servico men. which he thought not at all fair. The pay and allowances of a married military policeman were equal to about -fii a week, in his opinion an absurdly high wage for the work. He could not' get suitable men even at these high rates of pay. Returned soldiers would not take (ho work, and ho had to take men unfit for servico or over jnilitary age. At present there was the same difficulty in getting men for the civil police force as ho experienced in getting men for his force. The strength of his- corps all over New Zealand was 20*, .whereas tho total establishment was 256. He thought it was important that the corps should be kept up to strength, and provision for the training of (he men was very necessary. Complaints. Frederick William Bezar, clerk in Group S office. Buckle Street, offered evidence. He said that thoro were men in the homo service section as clerks .who were not fit for the work. Some of them were quite well-to-do, and they should not be employed while there were returned soldiers, competent clerks, who could do the work. Men came to the offices looking for work every day. Clerks wore wanted, but these were for duties in camp, and tho. men would' not go there. They had had enough of camp. He gave an account also of his own ' treatment by the Defence Department, but the matter he vised was not pertaining to finance. He said that there were men classed as C 2 who were quito fit. He mentioned one man classed unfit who was really fit, and he declared that this had been done because of tho influence of the man's family. To Air. Rhodes: ne received ss. a dav pav, 4s. a day allowance, andl3s. for his wife, and !)d. for each of two children, a total of lis. (id. a day for seven days a week. Major Albert Arthur Corritran, Commanding No. 5 Group, said that owing to Bozar's work in regard to the issue of warrants to recruits he had had to r«mnvo B"zar from the position of group clerk. With regard to a recruit declar- l ed to be unfit, concerning which .Bezar had made allegations, he said that reexamination had been asked for in one of tho cases, and the application forwarded to the Director of Recruiting, ne was satisfied that doctors did their liest to send men into camp. Some men whom he had considered of doubtful health and physique had been sent into camp. The matter was not in any way under his jurisdiction, but from' what lie had seen .he was satisfied that the doctors were most anxious to. 6end every fit man into camp, and not to reject useful men. . Private Bezar denied that he had been removed from the position of group clerk. He had been relieved of that work at hi° own request. Major Corrigan: Let.it go at that. He said that Bezar was a hard worker, but not all accurate one. Report Unfounded. The chairman sent for tho medical papers relating to tho man mentioned by Bezar. When tho .papers arrived the chairman said that Bezar had been very seriously misinformed. Tho man had been medically examined by the No. ■i' Medical Board and classed C 2. The** papors showed that he had three serious ailments and two others'. Tho mnn was re-examined two months later by the No. 10 Board and classed 02. Tha't was the classification that stood now. Tho Commission will sit again this morning for the hearing of evidence at 10 a.m. . .