PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 10, Issue 3143, 28 July 1917, Page 8

PARLIAMENT

——<, IMPREST SUPPLY BILL

COUNTRY'S WAR EFFORTS ADMINISTRATION CRITICISED FINANCE AND DEFENCE MINISTERS' REPLY. Tho House of Representatives met at 2.30 p.m. . Four days' leave of absenco was granted to Mr. A. E. Glover (Auckland Central). IMPERIAL AFFAIRS. The Right Hon. W. P. MASSE 1' (Prime Minister) presented to the House tho report of tho proceedings of tho Imperial Conference. This led to a general discussion on Imperial Affairs, in which many questions were referred to which are probably not mentioned in tho papc presented. Ono of them was the importance to Mew .Zealand of tho Balkan problem. Replying at tho end of tho debate, the Prime Minister said there was no doubt that Now Zealand was intensely concerned in tho Balkans to-day. A proper solution of tho Balkan problem was of tho greatest importance to Now Zealand and to India, and to every other country reached through tho Suez Canal. He could tell the House that the gcntlemon in charge of tho affairs of the Empire wero fully aware of tho importance of a satisfactory settlement of Balkan affairs at tho end of the war. When the timo came it would be found that everything possible would bo done to block the way of Germany to the East. He agreed with tho opinion expressed that it was desirable that thero Should Ire some closer linion between Australia and New Zealand. He was not suggesting that New Zealand should join tho Federation, but our aims, our necessities, our aspirations, were those of Australia, and in future tho two countries must como more closely together. One of tho things they must both do their utmost to prevent was the passing of nn.v of the South Pacific Islands under alien domination. Tho Imperial authorities wero fully impressed with tho importance of these South Pacific Islands not only to New Zealand but to the whole Empire, nnd unless something like defeat 'came to the Empire—and that was not now j>ossible—these islands would never be give.n back to Germany. And Australia and Now Zealand and Canada must combine in some way to secure naval protection in tho Pacific. IMPREST SUPPLY GRIEVANCES OF MEMBERS DEFENCE ADMINISTRATION, An Imprest Supply. Bill was introduced at 7.30 p.m. The Hon. D. BUDDO (Kaiapoi) opened the debate with a etatemont of some grievances. He urged the Government to give old-age pensioners a war bonus. "We never had a meeker Parliament than we hndlast session," he declared. "Wo recognised tho gravity of tho position, and wo did not attempt to take advantage of things. But the position is different this year; Ministers and Departmental heads have had twolvo months in which to put their house in order, and Departmental heads are in the same position. This House will not submit to the same class of treatment that we voluntarily submitted to last year." Then ho proceeded to details. He rsked tho Defence Ministor whether the camp epidomics wore being as successfully dealt with as they should be. In the past mortality had been considerable, and he thought tho medical authorities should, after two years and a half of war. have discovered how to cope with epidemics, no was suspicious of tho aocuracy of the bulletins issued. Ho pleaded for more consideration for parents and soldiers on the eve of departure. Surely it would be possible for the relatives to bo allowed to be .with the 'mon for two hours or so before departure. Arrangements could be mado easily to allow this meeting to take place on a fenced-off portion of tho reclaimed land. Ho refused to believe that tho exigencies of tho service made this impossible. Advice Not Accepted. Mr. G. 'J. ANDERSON (Mataura) advocated the setting up of a Defence Committee to investigate such matters aa tlioso referred to by Mr. Buddo, and many others, some more serious. If this wero done the Houso would have moro confidcnce in the Administration, and could bo assured that matters wero all right. A great deal of dissatisfaction existed regarding tho lejection of men from camp after examination on arrival there by the camp medical staff. He believed that many men were sent out who were not unfit at all, possibly because tlioy hoodwinked the doctors. Some mon wero drafted in who should never have been passed. He criticised the Government for having failed to givo effect to tho recommendations of tho Efficiency Board. If their advice was not going to bo taken - the board was useless. The members of it wero amongst tho most brilliant business men in the country, and he was swre their advice would be valuable to the Government. Tho country needed organising very badly. , Up till now nothing had been organised but the military, and already there was danger of some of uur important industries suffering. He urged tho Government very strongly to take effective steps to deal with the men who failed to answer tlw call to fight for their country. Ono punishment he would like to see used was the confiscation of the property of all defaulters. How Ministers are Criticised, Mr. J. T. M. HOR>NSBY (Wairarapa) began by praising Mr.. Mac Donald for his work in connection with wheat and butter. He declared tbat the Minister had been very unfairly attacked. Indeed. it was'strange that all the criticism of Ministers was directed against Liberal Ministers, and it came from the Reform benches. Sir James Allen: What about my share? Mr. Hornsbv did not answer. Reform members: What about the Minister of-Defence? (Several times repeated.) Mr. Hornsby: "Oh, the Minister of Defencostands on quiite a different footing.'' (Ironical laughter.) Mr. Hornsby did, however, say that the Minister of Defence had done very valuable work for tho countrv, and that 0110 day be believed the value of the work would be realised- . rThe House in Earnest,

Mr. T. M. WILFORD (Eiitt) said ho wanted to say to the members of the National Government that he was quite certain the House was not prepared to open its mouth and shut its eyes and tako whatever was given it'. The Ministers must realise that this session more than last session the House was nlivo to the fact that there was an opportunity to do justice to many classes of tho community. Tho House was determined to see that justice wns done. The Minis, ters had tho opportunity of their lives. Mr. Wilford said ho 'realised fully that tho most onerous position in, tho Cabinet was occupied by tho Minister of Financo, who had to brine; down the taxation proposals. He hoped thoso proposals would not represent a weak-kneed policy. Tho House wanted a Strang schcrno of taxation, designed to pluco tho burden on tho right shouldors. If tho peoplo who wore able to pay towards tho war charges were made to pay, tho schoiuo would bo tlio beginning of tho strong and valiant effort which the Dominion expected from tho National Government. No half measures would suffice. Tho Government's _ measures must bo definite, strong, plain, and remedial. Tho responsibilities of tho Mill, isters were immense. Air. Wilford said that tho Govornmont lmd to deal with the cost of living, and provido adequato ponsions for sol3iors,_ including tho mon of tho Second Division. Tho basis of tho pension scheme must bo tho formula, "fit to fight, fit to pousion.' 1 If a man wSa passed as fit and sont into camp, then the .Government must take

full responsibility for what happened to tho man afterwards, in camp or at the front. 'There should bo no discretionary powor in tho hands of a pensions board. If tho Government would bring down a. strong and adoquato programme, ho folt ccrtain that t'lio business of tho session would proceed smoothly, and that tho co-operation of members of tho Hoiiso would be readily and eoneroujly given. Mr. Wilford referred to the work done by mon of the liw-rchant service, and urged tho Oiov,ei'ta(Sjt to place officers and mon of transports on tiio sa/no footing ns soldiers in tho matter cf pulsions. Among tho other responsibilities of the National Governm-int wero the acquisition of land for settle.uent by soldiers, t'ho increase of old-age pensions, tho securing l of preference in omplovn'.ont to returned men, !>nd tho imposition of sufficiently heavy taxation. Ho believed tho majority of the rich mon of New Zealand wero filling to be hit hard. The Government would bo failing in its duty if it did r.ot take tho money that was "needed. Mr. Wilford added tliat tho surest way Jo loso tho war was to assume it to bo won. Sir William Robertson had said plainly that all tho available man-power of ilio nation would be required to :eeure the viotory. Fighting men wero needed, and tho National Government must not disregard the statements of the military leaders on that point. THE MINISTER OF FINANCE. MATTERS OF TAXATION. The Minister of Finance (SIR. JOSEPH WARD) said he w.as envious of tho members who could tell tho Government, from their position of care-free irresponsibility, what it ought to do. It might be assumed from tho tone of some of tho spccches that tho Government was insensible to the very heavy responsibilities that devolved upon it under present conditions. The Ministers, as a matter of fact, realised as clearly as anyono else what must be done in order to give full recognition to the men. who had gone out to fight for the country nnd to provido a sound and strong position for tho people generally. Ho did not intend that evening to refer to matters that would bo covered by his Budget, but thero wero several noints that he would liko to mention. I fhero had beeu suggestions in favour of an export tax. That would bo placing a handicap on productivity. There would bn no export tax. Such a tax would mean that one man would pay nothing, because he sold locally, while his neighbour would pay the tax because ho sent produce abroad and brought money into tho country. Then members had talked of a levy 'on wealth. It would not Ire possible to make such a levy, as distinct from taxation, unless the man had liquid assots, and oven then it would 1)0 improper and in practico impossible. The people who lmd wealth would have to bear financial burdens for many years to come. But a levy might not merely ruin tho taxpayer, by drawing the capital from his business, but also ruin peoplo to whom he had lent money on mortgage or whom he had financed in their businesses. The present time was not tho timo for trying experiments or making changes based on theories. It was a time for strong nnd cautious statesmanship. In connection with tho export tax argument, mention had been made of the tax on gold exports. Tho tax wn<i imposed for a good nnd sufficient renson. The Government and the Imperial authorities did not want, gold to go outside the Empire, and N"w Zealand was in the nosition, for tho first time in his knowledge, of holding gold which was regarded as an Imperial asset ns if it lay in the vaults of the Bank of England. Germany Bankrupt. Thero was no man living who could, say how much longer the war would continue. It might end sooner than somo peoplo anticipated. That it would be ended successfully by the Allies ho did not doubt for n moment. When tho end came the British peoplo would feel tho benefits of sound finance. Germany would bo bankrupt. The British Empiro would bo solvent, and he believed that it would lie able to forge ahead com-, mercially and industrially when Germany was labouring in insolvency. In conclusion, Sir Joseph Ward asked tho House to co-operate with the Government on sound, sensible lines in meeting the necessities created by tho war. Tho prolongation of the war had created a position, in regard to pensions for example, that could not have been anticipated, and the new conditions had to bo faced. His purpose in speaking had been to remove any impression that might have existed that the Government did not realise tho full oxtent of its responsibilities. Tho Message passed tho first stage at 10 p.m.

On Taxation. Mr. ,T. V. BROWN (Napier) began with sonio general remarks about taxation, declaring that war profits Should be placed iirst. Sir Joseph Ward: Wo couldn't livo on it. Mr. Brown wont on to say that ho would go on agitating until all tho war profits were taken. Aliens In the North. Mr. V. H. REED (Bay of Islands) nrotcsted against the inaction of tho (government in refusing to deal with aliens vho were escaping military service. If they; could not bo recruited for war .service, they should ba pint io work. For the Soldiers. Mr. G. HUNTER (Waipawa) urged upon the Government the importance of carrying on the drainage of tho Poukawa Lake. This lake covered an urwi of 5000 acres of soino of the best land in tlie Dominion. If it could be drained it would give a number of soldiers an opportunity of becoming successful 6ettlers. Mr. Massey: You know there is a hitch. Mr. Hunter: If there is a hitch it can be overcome. Mr. Massey: It requires legislation. Mr. Hunter: If legislation is required it is for tho House and tho people of the country to UTgo tho Government to get that legislation through at 'ince, in order to open tho land for settlers. Another point lie wished to refer to was in regard to tho offer by the Imperial Government to purchase wool on tho same terms as last year. The Prime Minister had said that he proposed to call a conference of wool-growers. Ho would advise the Primo Minister not to do this, but to accept at once tho very generous offer. Mr. Massey: I am consulting the Board of Agriculture, and I think that will be sufficient. Mr. Hunter said ho hoped the offer would be accepted without any conference, becauso ho did not wish it to go out that the sheep-farmers were anxious to get the last penny out of the British Government for their wool. He considered that in view of the shipping difficulties the price was very generous, which the Government should accept. Mr. A. WALKER (Dunedin North) was not in favour of the abolition of the excess profits tax. minister of defence. REPLIES TO CRITICISM. SIP, JAMES ALLEN (Minister of Defence) replied to criticisms of tho Department. He spoke first of what had been said about tho rejection of men from camps after a second examination by a board within tho camp. Ho was given to understand by General Henderson that there was reason for this second examination, to detect such ailments as were rathe.r difficult toMctect. This examination was justified by experience. Mr. Buddo had suggested that there was a good deal of preventable sickness in tho camps. Early in the war their medical staff had great difficulties to overcome, but tho difficulties had been overcome, and now the precautions to prevent the spread of dangerous infectious diseases, such as meiuiigitis, were remarkably effective. Ho ventured to say thai: no camps in tlio world had less sickness than there was in our camp;. There were about 12,000 mou in all camps, and on July 2G there were 211 men sick. This numbor included 63 in tho Isolation Hospital at Dunedin for cases of a certain class. Complaint had been mado about tho arrangements mado for allowing next-of-kin to meet tho soldiers before departure. The Defenco Depar;mont was anxious to give as free an opportunity as possible to next-of-kin to Meet their relatives,

but if too much freedom was allowed experience showed that some of tho men were lost. This did not knppon now, and it was very desirable that these losses should not occur. Work for AHons. The demand had been made again that enemy aliens should bo compelled to work at soldiers' pay. What would be tho attitude of tho Labour Party to suck a proposal? In actual faot tlio matter had been considered over and over asjain. The opinion of tho Crown Law Cilice was very definite that tho Government had no right to employ alien enemies by compulsion. and that this might lead to ietaliation upon our own civilian prisoners of war.

It had been suggested that the Efficiency Board was being thwarted by the Government. Tho truth was that the board had presented some very valuable reports. Tho Government wild consider these reports soon, and if the Cabinet decided in favour of so doing,_ tho reports would be laid on tko table of the House. ' . He had been urged to take effect)vo steps to deal with tho men Who would not answer the call 10 serve. He agreed that effective fiteps must be taken, and they were difficult to take. Ho thought he was right in saying that there would bo legislation this session on tho subject, and the House would have an opportunity of discussing the matter. Porhnps tho House would not go so far as to confiscato_ tho ■propertv of deserters. 'Hie Minister said that men serving on transports had been ottered tho same treatment as soldiers in tho matter of pensions if tliey undertook the same responsibility as the soldiers, bv signing on for tho period of the war and six months afterwards. The men had not yet seen their way to accept that offer. The Dental Corps was doing good and loyal work. Justice would be done to the men of tho Second Division. Cold Storage. The PRIME MINISTER, referring to the storage question, said that representatives of tho freezing factories would meet in Wellington next week. Ho would ask them to go into the whole subject, ascertain just what cool storage space was available, and calculate what further space could bo provided. Some of tho freezing factories had plant capable of serving larger stores than they possessed at the present time. This plant would bo used if necessary to its full capacity. Tho Bill was put- through its final stages, and the House adjourned at 12.50 a.m. until 2.50 p.m. on Tuesday.