SECOND DIVISION

Dominion, Volume 10, Issue 3142, 21 July 1917, Page 8

SECOND DIVISION

DELEGATION TO PARLIAMENT BIG GATHERING AT THE HOUSE IMPORTANT SPEECHES DEPUTATION TO PRIME MINISTER Yesterday morning a delegation from tho Second Division Conference mot a number of members of Parliament at Old Parliament Buildings and addressed them on subjects upon which the conference has come to decision. Mr. T. M. Wilford, M.1 , ., presided over the gathering, and there were over forty members present.

Mr. Wilford said the meeting was called at the request of tho conlerence, which comprised sixty-three delegates, representing ninety-three leagues. Tho leagues represented 120,000 men of tho Second Division.

' The first speaker was Mr. T. C. List, of New Plymouth, who dealt with the questions of pay and pensions. The question of 6oldiers' pay, the' conference thought, should be left entirely to Parliament. Ho proceeded to detail the schemo favoured, by tho conference. Respecting pensions for disablement, tho conference had approved the principles of the British scheme, becauso they were just, and humanitarian.; That scheme took into account the pre-war earnings and pre-war standard of living, and assisted men, not only by money, but in other waj-s, so that they could bo restored as usoful members of the community, and back to health. The British Act laid down provisions which were absolute, and a man knew his exact position. In New Zealand ,that was not the case. Hero the amount of the pension was left to th"e discretion of a board. Here a full allowance for incapacitation was Eos., with a 10s. allowance for an attondant: in Tungiand it was .£3 155., and ,£1 for the arfiGhdant. Under tho British scheme, injuries were scheduled, and a flat rate for injuries provided. In the case of a man whoso pension did not amount to his pre-war earnings, he could make a claim under an alternativo provision Eased on those earnings. In New Zealand the British scheme had been termed undemocratic, becauso it differentiated, init the scheme was framed largely by liTr. Barnes, the great Labour member. Tho scheme was supported by-tho conference, becauso it met tho needs more fully and, more justly than any other scheme. It aimed at putting men in tho same position as they were in before tho war, or* as nearly .so ns possible. It bsipeci men to improve their positions, and did not penalise them for doing so. It helped them to learn a new trade, ■and did not penalise them. It helped them to educate and bring up their children. If the man had to bo sent to a sanatorium, convalescent homo, or hospital, it .paid for his treatment and his medicine, and saw that his wife and children did not suffer by his absence. Once a man's disablement reached a final condition no alteration in tho pension could be"made. In New Zealand a pension could be reduced or -withdrawn altogether by a board. In England tho Minister of Munitions said that ho would rather incrcaso than decrease tho pensions. In England no difference was made between single and married men; the position was taken up that a stnglo man might marry some day, ond he should not bo ponalisod bo bad been injured at tho war. Respecting "unmarried wives," in England the State assumed certain responsibilities for their care, and for the care of their children also, holding that they should not be turned adrift. The conference wanted to leave as little as possible to tho discretion of the Pensions Board. Members of Parliament: Hear, hear.

Mr. List said .that the board was composed, as far as he could see, of good men, but thej. ny"ht become officialised, and therefore indifferent and callous to tho claims of disabled soldiers. The conference/stood for the principle of pension right. ' • ilembers: Hear, hear. Mr. List: And by schedule.

Members: Hear, hear. , Mr. List: And w.e believe this country cannot do oiiourh for tho incapacitated

Members: Hear, hear. Mr. Wilford: .Fit to fight, fit to pension !

Mr. List: Yfi. absolutely. Mr. List said that Second Division men would be makinir a heavy sacrifice, even if they got tho maximum. They would have to sacrifice farms, businesses, and perhaps homes, and they wanted to be certain that their wives and families would be cared for by the Stato as a matter of riirht and not at tho caprice of any board. They therefore wanted Parliament to. adopt the principles of the British scheme, a pension by right aiW by schedule, with the increases proportionate to the higher wages and better conditions of living obtaining in New Zealand. '(Applause.) Mr. Toogood (Featherston) soul that tEo league asked for an increased separation allowance for "the wife and (or) solo dependant." It was a bi? step forward, but when the present rate was made married men were not being called on to serve. The Second Division was prepared to mako its sacrifice, but did not want its families to suffer poverty. They wantmi" to do their duty, and they could do that only if their minds were contented, and they would not be contented if they did not know that their families were properlv provided for. It hnd been pointSi out'that under the British scheme a widow might receive a greater pension than a woman who wns_™>t widowed, nnd therefore, had a husband to keen, in addition to tho rest of the fam'ly. Ho would ?ay that it must be. realised that homo life must no kept going, and that the'death of the husband caused a sevoro lo" to the hnme. Mr. C. ,T. T>arr. MVP.: What would be tho pension for a widow with four children? Mr. Toognod said that lie. could not answer the finostion offhand, but tho present scheme had boon wrong fwn tt<> start, and there should be no deduction op account' of children.

• Members: Hear. hear. Mr. Tnoffliod: Ton don't want to discourage an increase in the birth-rate do Members: No. Mr. Toogond n<l dwl that a good Tcasnn why there should bn an increase in tho nlliiwances was Hint the cost of living hnfl risen very much. Til , . Paterson. Smith Tanterbury. nrwtl the earl ,- examination of Second Division men. The BritirHi MeVtical Association cor=iuered it possiblo to carry this out, n-niT was prnonretl to do its best in the matter. He urccfl, also, on behalf of rn ,, conference, that the mndicnl examinnl"on should be mado tho deciding factor ns to the State's resnonsibilitiw. Tho ronfprence considered that tho -men shoiild T-" able to pro away to tho war fceliiifr VTi'at tlifir dependants were wpll cared for. Tliero were three essentials in life: food, elothinjr. and rhedieil attendpiico. Ho honod Parlinment vonld give nicm tlioso things, and then the men would fistht more whole-heartedly. He suggested that Parliament should take steps to ameliorate economic conditions, so ns not to imperil tho future of tin? nation by discouraging a high birthrate.

Mr, T. B. Slipper (Wanijaiiiii) said Hint tho conferonee realised that their demands wern pning to cost ?iiniethini». but rockoned thnt the country could well afford to stand the exponse. This was no ordinary time. They were lookint; through tho irat.es of death to the I'reat eterivity. and if they were not tlm Government had no warrant for calline on them. When people looked through tho sates of death they adjusted their glasses. The dependants of many men would have to make bis sacrifices; other people, very wealthy, could havo largo sums taken from them, nnd yet havo made no sacrifice. 1f..£5000 was taken fronl n .CIO.OOO man lie; would still havo ..U.vino left. ' Mr. .Tnmos Crnieio, Jt.P.: He would 1 •> mado no snerifice.

""*•. Sliijner said that tho time had arriyiO for the Government to tnlco i\ liold starifl In this matter. Ho believed that wealthy pooplo would not object, but

wHilo tho Government remained inactiyo nono would give, because, of the possibility of other sitting tight. "Sr. B. J. Dolan (Napier) brought further resolutions of tho conference to the notice of the gathering. Referring to tho resolution proposing tlio enfranchisement of all 6oldiors on service, he said tlfat tho conferenco looked on tiiis as an, Insurance of men's rightsc, and a cheojc on any Government—a check which would enable tho wants of soldiers to be properly looked after. Hβ caino from a country that had caused considerable trouble to tno Empire—and also to the Germans. He hnd spent twenty-five years in this country, and was convinced that ho should go as a soldier of New Zealand, but, if ho sacrificed his lite for New Zealand, ho expected New Zealand to exteud fullest sympathy and cure to ills dependants.

Mr. E. A. Armstrong, president of the confexence, declared that the first clause in the constitution of the league stated that the league would assist the Government in regard to the war. In mentioning this to the Minister the other day, ho had added "consistent with our duty to our dependants," for tho first law of nature was for a father to protect his children and tho woman he married. The conference was constituted by men of all shades of political colour and social standing. He did not think there were many men of the Second Division who were not prepared to go if tho duty devolved on thorn—certainly not one belonging to their organisation. A matter needing immediate attention was the alteration of the regulation which reduced the military pensions of old ago pensioners. Tho conference would not make exorbitant demands, but they 'wanted, as of right, adequate provision for their families. Mr. Wflford said that the speeches had been clear and instructive, and had impressed members more than had any deputation in his experience, and he moved a vote of thanks to the speakers.

This was carried by acclamation. Mr. A. S. Malcolm, M.P., moved that Mr. Wilford should bo thoir permanent chairman, and with the Whips (Messrs. Guthrio and l?orbes) form a channel of communication to the Government. Ho suggested also that there should be a round-table conference with the Prime Minister, the Minister of Finance, and the Minister of Defence. . The motion was earned unanimously.

THE PRIME MINISTER SYMPATHY WITH THE LEAGUE. In the afternoon the conference, in a body waited on the Prinio Minister (tho Kight Hon. W. F. Massey), and spteches on the lines of thoso reported above were made. .Replying, Mr. Massey said that ho was glad to meet so many members of tho Second Division, and to hear what they had to say. He had practically no fault to find with the views expressed. Ho had been pleased to hear the expressions of loyalty, but they wore soarcely necessaxv, becauso h<3 was sure that tho heart of "New Zealand wae loyal to the core. As to the request for early examination of Second Division, men, lie could say that tho examinations would be vaade as early as possible. The Defence Department would givo effect to the promise he was making. Tho important point of all was that regarding dependants. If the men went, their dopendants would T>e considered to be, for tho time being, wards of tho State, and tho State would do its duty to them. Thd dependants would bo looked after. Ho was glad to notice that the British pensions sc'ieme, tho principles of which had been adopted by the conference, was particularly generous. It had been a reproach to our raco that it had not clone tho right thing by its soldiers in tho past, and he was pleased to hear that the heart of uie Empire was talcing a lead in the maTdng of generous provisions. Then they came to the question of financial ability. He could not go into details at the moment, but he would fay that what England was able to do for its soldiers New Zealand was able to do for its men. Parliament would 'nave this question to deal with later in the session—long before the Second Division was called on to go to tho frout, he hoped. The first business of Parliament was to make provision for the carrying on of the war. The financial legislation was bo'ing discussed now, but Cabinet had not got the length of having prepared Bills, or having tho Financial Statement to go upon. As soon as they got through that this question of dependants was the most important. He was not sure it. woiiTfl bo the first Bill, but it would cot be delayed very long. Mr. It. A. Armstrong: Surely it should take precedence of domestic legislation. Mr. Massey: I cannot give a pledge, but it will como up as soon as possible. fir. Massey did not think it was \.iso for him to go into details. Ho had always been in favour of pensions by rlgh't, but there had been difficulties in. ttie way. When New Zealand passed its pension scheme, that scheme was tho most generous in the Empire. Sinco then others had improved thoir schemes, and maybe it was up to New Zealand to revise its scheme. Speaking generally, lie was in sympathy with the deputation. He was noT; a rich man, but if every shilling he possessed was needed for carrying tin the war it would bo given, willingly, and mere were tens of thousands more in Sew Zealand of the same fiame of mind.

Mr. Armstrong said they woro particularly anxious to know that these -matters would be settled one way or the other before the Second Division was called up. Mr. Jfassey: I, don't think there is. any aonbfc aoout that. I will do my best in that direction, but I cannot make a dennit'o promise.