THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 8, Issue 2568, 16 September 1915, Page 7

THE HOUSE

The House of Representatives met at 2.30 p.in.' - ■ Mr. C. H. POOLE (Auckland West) gave notice to ask the Minister of Defence whether it was true that the son of a well-kuowii-.German:-trader- had been appointed to the.De-fehce 'staff. Four days' leave of absence was granted to Mr. G. Forbes (Hurunui). The Scenery Preservation Amend.ttent Bill (the Right.' Hon. W; F. Maseey) was introduced and read a first time. , - The Right Hon. W. F. MASSEY (Prime Minister) gave notice to move that on' and after Monday night the House sit on Mondays at 7.30 p.m. for the! transaction of public business. THE ESTIMATES ) < DEFENCE DEPARTMENT VOTE A LIST OF COMPLAINTS The House went in Committee of Supply on the Estimates at 5 p.m. The first class dealt with was Defence Department, £492,265. Mr. G. Witty asked the Minister whether it was true,.as:..reported, that seme of the hutments at Trentham were . built partly of second-hand timber which had been used,- for fitting out ..transports, and which had been taken out of them on their return. It was suggested that the use of this timber (vas the cause of the outbreak of meningitis.

Mr. : T. M. WilfoTd asked the Minister how .much money had been spent on the painting of transports. He believ-o-l' that tho cost was from £15,000 to £20,000.

s Div A. K. Newman asked was responsible for placing the huts at Trentham in a wro'ic; position— east and (vest, instead of north and south. Gross ncgligence had been committed by someone. He also asked why medical men after they had' served the country for a number of years as medical officers in the Territorial forces had been passed oyer .by the Defence Department when appointments were being-made in connection with military hospitals and camps. He also aslted the Minister why he had found it necessary to import from England a'highly salaried officer when there were medical men here who knew all about military hygiene. Mr. C.' H. Poole urged the Minister to establish at least four camps in order to minimise the risk of infection of the Main Body, and the spread is disease in the reinforcements I-ere. 1 He also asked the Minister to spread oyer the ports of the country the work of refitting troopships. Minister Replies. The Son. J. -Allen said' he had never beard that any timber from Egypt or any other second-hand timber had been uSfed in the construction of huts at Trentham. 1 In any event, if second-hand timber had! been used it certainly had not caused the outbreak of meningitis at the camp. With regard to the painting of troopships, - the first transports we're painted, but he was mi able to say what the cost was. The work was done without his knowledge in the hurry of getting the ships ready. In reply to Dr.. Newman's question about the position of the huts at Trentham, he was informed that they were placed as nearly as possible ; north and south. They certainly did not lie east and west. It had been a very difficult thing to deal with the medical service here, but he was not aware that deserving officers had been passed over. He hoped the House would agree that the appointment of Surgeon-General Honderson was a wise step. He was sorry there had not been a Royal Army Medical Corps staff officer here some years ago. If such an officor had been here our medical corps, officers, and rank and'file would have

been bettor trained and organised. He hoped and believed that General Heni derson would: do good work. He did not agree with the proposal to establish, mora traininj»oamjjsbecause ther&

was not a.sufficient training staff available. There was no danger of . the Main Body boing infected by the drafts from hero. His advice about the overhaul and refitting of troopships was that the work could be done mors cheaply and expeditiously at Port Chalmers than elsewhere. He would, however, consider the possibility of having slips refitted at Auckland in future, if any more transports should be required. Mr. J. B. Hino (Stratford)'requested an explanation as to the method of giving commissions, and' as to now n.c.o.'s were appointed. He also asked why only junior ranks were given officers here. , The Hon. J. Allen said that tho officers and n.c.o.'s were selected by the officer in oharge of the district, who was supposed to know the qualifications of the applicants. Officers who held Territorial commissions wore appointed to temporary commissions only. The others had to wm their way through tho n.c.o. ranks. With regard to young officers, he said that the officer commanding the Expeditionary' Forces had repeatedly asked that no senior officers should bo sent. General Godley had authority to promote a certain number '.of officers without examination. It bad to be remembered that we were sending reinforcements. The senior officerswere already there in sufficient numbers.

Colonel Purdy's Position. Mr. G: V. Poarce (Patea) asked if any action was to bo taken as the outcome of the Trentham Commission's report? Most of the evidence seemed to blame Colonel Purdy

Mr. T. M. Wilford (Hutt) said that Colonel Purdy !had ha-d to do the work of ten men.' . He understood that Colonel Purdy was to be attacked!, and he hoped that the Minister would not prejudge Colonel Purdy till both sides of the case had been put before him. They would have an opportunity to deal with the matter when tho Commission's report was disoussed. '■ '~ , The Hon. J. Allen said that lie was not going to prejudge Colonel Purdy. Ho was Director of Medical Services, but when it became known that an epidemic had broken out Colonel Valintiue was called into that position. The Commission was asked if there was anybody to blame, and the Commission had not answered that specific question. It was not for him to answer it now. Sur-geon-General Henderson was to make a report on, tho hospital arrangements, and until that report came to hand he thought ho should hold his hand. Replying to Mr. J S. Dickson (Parnell), Mr. Allen- said that so far as he knew, Colonel Logan's administration of Samoa had been, very good;

Several members spoke against the system requiring soldiers oil leave to report to camp on Monday - morning. They thought that the men should be allowed to report back on Monday night, thus saving, to those coming from a distance, tho . week-end. Mr. G. V. Pearce (Patea) said that apparently Colonel Purdy had blunder-; ed in his former office. Now, he was in charge of the Territorials,' and it was safe to assume that if he made a mistake in one department, he might do it in another.

Ml'. G. Witty (Riccarton) aslced who was responsible, for "putting 7000 men on the inadequate camp site at Trentham, ... Mr. W. A.. Veit-ch (Wanganui) said that the officers who were being appointed how were so young that they were certainly not fit to command mcgi on the field of battle. There wero many officers available from those who had served in the South African war. Cost of the Transports. The Hon. J. Allen, speaking with regard to troops returning, from leave, said that he did not think it was fair to discriminate. He was trying to arrange for the men to go out early on. Monday morning, instead of on. Simday. As to Trentham,; >.'it ; was ;quito capable of carrying 7000 men when that number'was sent iii; To a further question he said that ho proposed to recognise the National Reserve as a volunteer organisation. Tho total cost of painting the transports was £6773. 'The cost of repainting was £3630 to date. It was intended to "put these ships on the same footing as tho Royal Navy. They were painted for humane purposes. One result was that the New Zealand transports, because they were so painted, .were the first allowed to enter the Suez Canal. As to the cost of transports, it was £1,055,888 up to the_end of June, and there was then owing £128,164, making a total of £1,184,052. The various companies which received payments

were:— . Commonwealth and Dominion Line, £142,523. Greenshields, Cowie, and Co., £10,763. N.Z. and South African Co., £77,643. N.Z. Shipping Co., £114,596. Shaw, Savill, and Albion Co., £269,943. Union Steam Ship Company, £387,172. Verdalla Steamship Co., £30,261. Weir and Co., £22,982. When the history of tho transports wais written, it would be. found that New Zealand had made an extraordinarily good arrangement. Tahiti Rumours Again. Mr. J. T. M. Hornsby (Wairarapa) asked whether two Ministers had made a statement on Saturday that a largo number of men returning by the Tahiti had "military rheumatism," or, in other words) "cold feet." He wanted to be particular about this matter, because it was not going to • stop now. He trusted that tho inquiry which was being demanded in the public Press would be held.

Dr. Newman (Wellington East) desired moro information about Trentham ' Camp. After all, there wore others above the doctors in camp, and he felt that there was gross mismanagement in the camp before the epidemic. It was a gross injustice to focus everything on Dr. Ptirdy. The public would not be satisfied till the trouble was sheeted home to somebody. Everything in the camp had been done in conflict with military hygiene, and it was absurd- to say that Colonel Purdy was responsible for it all. He hoped that the Minister was keeping a strict hand on the purse-strings in connec.tion.with military expenditure, now that the first rush was over. -

'. Dr. 'l'haeker (Christchiirch East) contended that up-to-date arrangements ivere not yet existing'at Trentham. He held that the Wellington Racing Club should get their property back now. A hospital train should be arranged there. He urged strongly that the hutments ought to be lined. He declared that Colonel Gibbon was to blamei for tho epidemic at Trentham, and' if there was anyone above him to blame it was the Minister of Defence. Mr. T. A- H. Field (Nelson) made complaint against the practice of giving wounded and sick soldiers steerage passages to their homes. _ These men were met by Ministers, driven in motorcars, cheered, and foasted, and then, as an anti-climax, camo the steerage passage home.' Charges Answered. The Hon. J. Allen said that as soon as ho had a report on the men on the Tahiti he would be able to decide whether there was any need for such an inquiry as was suggested by tho member for Wairarapa. He knew nothing of any Ministers talking about "cold feet," or anything of that sort. He maintained that the hospital arrangements at Trentham were very good, and ho hoped that tho Racing Club would bo able to use their buildings for the spring meeting. He did not fear a recurrence of a serious outbreak of sickness at Trentliam. He assured tho member for Wanganui that tliero was no discrimination against South African soldiers in the appointment of officers. An alteration had been made jecentlj; m tie rule rfgwdkg steerage

or saloon. passages for returned men, and. ho did not think there was any longer a real grievance. Tho question of_ whether luits should bo lined was still undecided. Ho was awaiting tho report of General Hendorson; and if General Henderson said the hnts onght to be lined, thoy would bo lined. A derogatory reference had been made to Colonel Gibbon, which he could not allow to pass unchallenged. "Colonel Gibbon," ho said, "has done immense service to this country. I know of no English officer—and this is a great thing to say—l know of no English officer who has ever been to Now Zealand who has given the servico that Colonel Gibbon has given to us. . . . I resont very strongly the suggestion that Colonel Gibbon is to blame for anything that has gone wrong in this country."

An Officer Who Resigned. Mr. T. M. Wilford (Hutt) asked what the Minister was going to do about Captain Henderson, who had been found guilty of taking some small sums of money. He pointed out that Captain Hendorson had saved the country thousands of pounds, and in connection with tho dispatch of the transports he hadinnuiiicrabloopportuuitiee to make large sums if he had been a "grafter" or.any way a dishonest man. Mr. Wilford appealed for a chanco for Captain Henderson. He desired to go on to Gallipoli, and should be given an opportunity to retrieve his character He held that it was up to the country to do this, in return' for the good work done in the past by Captain Henderson. Mr. W. T. Jenniugs (Taumarunui) and Mr. W. H. Field (Otaki) spoko of .the woeful shortage of rifle ranges lir New Zealand.

Iho Hon. J. Allen said that if, as it, appeared, wounded , men not fit to look after themselves had not been given saloon passages then tho officers in charge of transport must have misunderstood their instructions.

Mr...Anderson: Then sack them. _ Mr. Allen: That is a very unfair thing. With regard to Captain Henderson, he was well acquainted with the officer, and he was sorry about his lapse, but Captain Honderson had tendered his resignation, and his resignation had been accepted. He admitted that it was urgently necessary iliat more rifle ranges should bo provided. Mr. J. T. M. Hornsby (Wairarapa! suggested that when the camp at Tauhenmkau was occupied tho temporary hospital there should be abandoned, and any cases of sickness sent to Grwtown Hospital. Several members criticised adversely the policy of the Government in appointing youths of twenty as officers id, preference to matured men, some •of whom had seen service in South Africa. Dr. A. K. Newman said that tho number of admissions to hospital at Irentham showed that there was something wrong at Trentham. Among 4000 young men, tho flower of New Zealand, who had "been carefully examined by doctors, there should not be the amount of sickness reported. He would suggest that tho Minister instruct General Henderson to visit. tho camp and report upon it. His own fceliug was that all was not right at Trentham Camp, and that, the camp was veiy-far from ideal. Mr. G. J. Anderson said the Minister should inform the House as to who was the culprit to blame for the sickness at the canip.Our Only Airship. Mr. T. M. Wilford asked .what bad become of^ our airship, the "Britannic." Was it still housed? Mr. Allen: No, it is being used by the Imperial Government. . Mr. J. Anstey asked whether the Government thought of doing anything more, in regard to military aviation- in iVew Zealand. _ The Hon. J. Allen said that the service could not be extended now, but after the war the subject would have to be considered. The Defence Estimates were passed at 11.30 p.m. \ OTHER DEPARTMENTS. l Tli'e class, Customs, Marine, and Harbours; and Inspection of Machinery Departments, £180,920, was passed in two minutes. Tho Mines vote, a-total of £36,485, was passed at 11.45 p.m. The Department of Labour vote, a total of £31,377, was passed without discussion. . Commandeering Meat Supplies. The Class Department of Lands and Survey, a total of £239,357, was passed. On the Department of Agriculture, Industries, and Commerce (Mr. J. B. Hino (Stratford) asked the position with regard to commandeering meat for ■the coming season. He said that there was a feeling amongst the smaller freezing companies that they were not getting a fair_ deal ■at the other end. He did not think the farmers were represented when the arrangement was made for commandeering tho meat. - Right Hon. W. F. Massoy said that the farmers were represented when tho arrangement was made with tho Board of Trade. With regard to the present position, there had been very "J"?" 1 ' statements going the round's of the Press within the last few days. So tar as the surplus meat was concaned, it was placed by the-Board of irade under the control of a committee appointed on account of their special knowledge. They placed surplus meat ol \ market, and sold it at market rates. The suggestion had been made that some of those men were connected with freezing companies, and there was a possibility of their arranging the sale of surplus meat to suit themselves. J hat was a very unworthy suggestion, and he would ko the length of saying that more would be heard of it. ' He •ii London in connection with it. He told hon. members that if the present arrangement fell through in all probability there would not be •sufficient ships available to carry our meat to the London ma-rkots. Ho wanted help rather than hindrance, and an article published in the papers the other day, which omanated from Povoi--.ty Bay, did not help him at all. He was bound to say the farmers generally appreciated l what had been done. He had been going into tho prices, and was of opinion that ,tlie farmers were (getting a very fair price for their lamb and mutton.

Mr. G. Witty said that tho complaint of tlie farmers in Canterbury was that they; could not get their stock into the freezing works unless through tho agents of the companies and of dealers. The fanners' did not actually get the price paid by the -Government as they might have if thoy had been allowed to get their meat frozen on their own account. He believed that meat was too dear in ,Now Zealand, and something should be done. 'Die price to the local consumer was nearly double that obtainable for meat exported, and tho best meat was exported. He asked whether any money had been paid by tho Government to a newspaper man who had gone to the Panama Exhibition as a New Zealand Commissioner. Mr. Massey: Not a cent. Wheat and Flour. Replying to Mr. G. Witty's statement that there was plenty of wheat in Now.Zealand, when the Government importations arrived, , The Prime Minister said that- there was not. now a. single bushol in New Zealand more than wo required. If tlie Government had not imported there would have been a flour famino in Now Zealand, and bread would have risen to Is. or even more. If tho harvest canio at tho usual time we would have just enough wheat; if the harvest was late there would be a shortage. And if there was no rain in Canterbury our next year's yield would not su/lice-for

our needs. The vote was passed. 1 Progress was vcpoi't«4 sutl th? Seuse rose d J J36 &,m,