HUTT EXPLOSION

Dominion, Volume 7, Issue 2128, 21 April 1914, Page 6

HUTT EXPLOSION

STILL UNEXPLAINED

MORE ABOUT GELIGNITE

SALES NOT ACCOUNTED FOR

DID ACETYLENE EXPLODE 7

EXPERT SAYS "NO!"

The inquiry was yesterday continued, for the fourth day, into the deaths of tho seven victims of tho XJppor Hutt fire explosion. The District Coroner, (Mr. W. G. Riddell, S.M.) presided. Chief-Detective Brobcrg conducted tho inquiry for the Crown. Mr. C. B. Morison, K.C., with Mr. H. F. O'Leary, appeared in the interests of Messrs. Bongo and PTatt, in whoso store tho fire and explosion occurred; Mr. T.,M. Wilford appeared for Mrs. Mahoney, Mrs. Comesky, and Mrs, Flynn, widows of three of the deceased, and for tho relatives of K. Pelling, J. Vivian, and G. Taylor; Mr. E. M. Sladden watched the inquiry in the interests of the New Zealand Acetylene Gas Company, and the . Heat, Light, and Supplies Co.; and Mr. H.. E. Evans appeared for tho 'Guardian Assurance Co., which office held Messrs. Beuge and Pratt's risk. Tho relatives of'tho deceased, Michael Toohey, who are in Australia, were not represented.

The Eyldenceof Mr. Benge. The first witness was Herbert \ictor Benge, the senior partner in i.ho firm of Benge and Pratt. During the week ending March 28, he said, tho firm was stoek-tftking, all the employees taking part. Personally, he took part of tho hardware and crockery, and a few of the patent medicines. 'They had somo cartridges in stock, stored on the ground floor. He had. no idea of the number, beyond 250 of one brand. He knew of uo flasks of powder. Chief-Detectivo Broberg: When did you finish stock-taking ?—"Wβ hadn t finished." . \, ■. -.-l \ Now, you have been m tho habit oi stocking gelignito?—"Yes, sir." \ Blasting powder P— "Yes." t Detonators?—" Yes." Where were the detonators kept?— "In tho hack shed." • . . - And tie gelignite?—" Upstairs, in the south front room; the blasting powder was also thore." . Had you taken, stock in the south front room?—"No, sir. We had not taken any of tho upstairs stock." Where aro the stock-sheets?— "Burnt. They woro.not taken out or the fixtures." , . , Did you have any gelignite in stock on the night .of the fire?—"l believe Any Hasting powder ?— "There may have 'been; I really could not say. . When was the last purchaso of explosives?—"l could not tell you. _ Whv is that?—"l never fought it, so I could not say. I behove it was on February 6." ■■-' ,■.•'■„ Did 'Mr. Pratt do all tho buying? —"Practically all." . ■ 'Were you awaro that it was usual to stock a casoiof gelignito.at atirao?, —"Xo, I believedvifc ;\YaS:U9uahto,-gefHfi case when we had an order, on hand. ■ When were you last ini that -front room?—"I liave not any idea. Were tou there during the week ending March 28?-"Not that I remem- ''. In the CeJlgnlte Boom; Would it be possible for a quantity of gelignite and blastuig powder to be stored there on March 28 without your knowledge?—" Yes, quite possible.

There could have been 201b. of gelignite without your knowledge?—' les. Can you tell me any sales out of tno case purchased on February 6?— I know of a few sales, although I did not sell it myself." -What sales?—"To the two Edwards." When were the sales effected?— 1 could not say; I beliove ono was on March 14, but I don't know the date ot the other." ' ■ . ~ How much do'you suggest was sola on March 14?—"51b." Who to?—"P. T. Edwards, Upper Hutt, by deceased Vivian." What is he?—"A labourer." , What information have you about that sale?—"l have Mr. Edwards Where did" you get the information? —"From Mr. Edwards, through an advertisement put in tho local paper last Saturday night." ; When did Mr. Edwards speak to you about it?—" Yesterday." .. That is the first you knew of it?— '"Yes, sir." The othar sale?—" The other sale I heard of, I think,-the week after the firo; Mr. A. R. Edwards, farmer, Mungaroa, sent word that ho had bought somo gelignite." How much? —"51b." Did you see Mr. Edwards—"Yes, I understood ho was coming here to-day." When did you see him first?—"l think itSwas the My before the inquiry opened." What did he tell you?—" That he bought 51b. of gelignite from Vivian on a Saturday night. Can you toll me of auy other purchase?—"l cannot."

You heard the evidence of Mr. Fothergillabout tho purchaso prior to February 6. ' Do you dispute that?—"No, 1-Miad no idea as to the date I made tho sale." ' You heard the evidence of Carmichael?—"No." . Do you know ho says he did not, at any time,- purchase gelignito at your shop?—"l still think ne did." Doyou know ho 6wore he did not? — "Yes, I knew ho swore that." You did not keep an oxplosives book ? -"No." ■ i You can not suggest any other sales? —."No." You think Carmichael is raisteken? —"Yea. I feel positive he purchased gelignite. I would not say whether Vivian or I made.the sale." Would you make any suggestion as to tho amount?—" No." You knew of two other entries in the book?—" Yes." « Sales of Collgnlt? Unexplained. Apart from the 1011). 'to the Edwards 's and the other 61-olb., there is atill a lot of gelignito unaccounted fori —"Yes." ' Thirty-four pounds of it?—" Yes." And -that might have been on the premises on the night of the fire?— "Thero might have been a ton." Chief Detective Broberg: There might have been a ton there!

Continuing his evidence witness said that on the night of tho fire he was aroused by Constable Mahoney. Ho assisted to get the safe out, ind some machines, and then went to the bakehouse; The lire appeared to be in the back portion of the building. Ho had iust come out of tho building when tho explosion occurred, but he heard no report. Ho felt and saw the flames, and ran into the road to got out of Uio falling bits of timber. He did not remember when ho was told thero had been an explosion. Thero was no carbide kept on tlie premises. Ho could not say whether the generator tap was turneel off that night. Mr. Pratt usually did it, but he was not out at the back that night, i ■ The Coroner: .Was. the generator

charged that night?— "Yes, at a quar ter to nine."

Chiof-Detective Broborg: Was it not charged at an earlier hour? —"X e3 j i' was charged earlier as well." « Did .you tiirn the tap oB?—"No, I did not turn it off."

What timo did you leave ?—"About 9.45 p.m." \ Who was last on the premises?—"l was." Thought He Saw a Light Upstairs. Were you there after Mr. Pratt?— "I went out the back door, and locked up tho outbuildings; locked the generator house, etc. I then thought I saw a light in the upstairs window. 1 walked round to tho front door of the shop, let myself in, and went upstairs. I looked round, but could find nothing, and came down again. Then I discovered that it was the reflection of the hotel lights that I had seen." You then discovered that it was the reflection of the hotel lights?—" Yes." Did you speak to Clough after you came out?—"He spoke to me." What did ho say?—"' Were yon upstairs with tho light? , and I said 'Yes.' He then walked on."

Did you speak to him next morning? —"Yes. I said that light must have been there, after a!!."

What did you mean ■by that?—"l meant the light must have been thero." Did you mean the place must have been on fire?—" No." '

After further questioning, witness said the Chief-Detective could put it that way. .You had a light?—" Yes, I struck a match." Did you have a candle?—" No." How many matches did you strike?— "I may have struck more than one." What rooms did you search? —"All tho upstairs rooms." Did you make a good search?—" Yes." How long wore you there?—" About two minutest" You were- then in tho room whore the geligvite' was kept?—" Yes." How long, was that beforo the fire was discovered ?—"About two hours."

When did you speak to Clongh next day?—"l could not tell you tho time." You were .interviewed by Sergeant O'Halloran, wero you not?—" No." Were you questioned by him?—"Ho asked me a question, something about explosives, or something to that effect. It was on the Sunday morning." Did you tell him this: "I was the last to leave. I left at about 10 o'clock. The gas was off at tho meter?" -"No." Do you deny you told him you left at 10 o'clock?—'Tes, I deny that." Did you telf him anything about seeing a light?—"No, sir." Did you tell any other person about it?—" No." Tho only person was the ono who saw you going into the premises after you had locked up on Saturday night? —"Yes."

If you concluded tho premises were alight about ton o'clock, in other words, two hours before the fire was discovered, why didn't, you tell somebody else? —"I did not thiiik tho place was on fire." You only spoke of it to the mat) w]io saw you going in; why didn't you mention it to anybody else?—"l never thought about* it." You never, thought about an important thing like that?—" I thought it was the reflection from tho hotel arc light." You told Clough the light must have been there; what does that mean but that tho place must have been alight? —"Not necessarily. Thero may have been someono there with a light:" •' Can you suggest anybody?—"No!" ,

Statements to the Sergeant Denied. You deny you,told. Sergeant O!HaI-. lbran.that the gas was turned" off at tho meter.?—" Yes, I do." Tho Coroner: You know the tap was found turned off ?-^"Yes." Chief Detcctivo Broberg: Did you toll Sergeant O'Halloran that when you got to tho scene flames were bursting out tho south side of the shop?—" No." You also deny that you told him Edward's office was in flames?—" Yes." You told us to-day you heard no shock or explosion?—" Yes." Do you deny you told Sergeant O'HalJoran that you heard a big explosion and shock?—" Yes." Do you deny you told him you did not stock any gelignite?—"l would not swear to that. I have no idea now that I told him that." • What was the value of the stock at tho time of the fire?—"£2Boo." • How do you arrive at that .figure?— "Our last stocktaking was £2500, and the stock, I- considered, had increased considerably." Did you tell Sergeant O'Halloran that the stock was insured for £1800, but you had just finished stocktaking, and tho stock was valued at £2800?—" No, sir." ■ -' Now you 6ay yau do not know whether you tbld Sergeant O'Halloran that there wore no.explosives there?—" Yes." Were you interviewed by a newspaper reporter?—"l can't say." Did you say you had no explosives to any other person?—"l may have." Did you, in reply to a Dominion reporter, as to whether thero were any explosives on the premises, say: "No, absolutely none?"—"I can't say."

Did you say'to Cooper, in the bakehouse, when you heard a scream, that someone was hurt?—"l can't remembor that." '

Concerning Csllgnite. What was tho insurance on the stock ? —"£IBOO. Wo did not own the "premises." The bakehouse?— , ' The stock was not insured in the bakehouse." Was thore .anything of a highly inflammable nature stored in tho rooms upstairs?—"l could not tell you that." You say you charged the generator about a quarter to niiio?— "It may have been between 8.30 and 8.43.",

What is your usual closing hour?— "Nino o'clock." Did the generator leak?—" The pipes I leak a little. ,, . ♦ Where was the leak?—"l have no idea." How much "cartide did you put in ?— "I could not say. I filled one .tray. The lights were going down, and I went and turned on. the other chamber, and refilled the one that.was exhausted." When Clough spoke to you on Saturday night, did ho say anything about smelling fire.—"No." . Have you had any conversation with Bolton about his purchase of gelignite? —"No; none at a 11 . ,' On the question of whether you wereout of gelignite, you can't speak?— Only througn the deceased Vivian." How through him?—"Ho told me during tho week ending March 28." I What purpose did ho tell you for?— "To make a note of." Did you make a noto?—"Yos." Where is it?—"l put it under a weight on the counter.", Was it not unusual for Vivian to toll both you and Mr. Pratt that you were out of gelignito?—"No. Wβ were always particular in keeping up our stocks, and he would tell one or both of us."

Notwithstanding he told both of you, none was purchased from the merchants, was it? —"No." Why did not you get it when Vivian told you it was out of stock?—"l could not tell yon. It was in Mr. l'ratt's hands." Did Vivian tell you so.that you would got it?—"No, so thai we wmilil not miss it if thero was an order." . Why didn't you explain that to Sergeant O'Halloran?—"l can't tell you." You told me you could not tell mo ivhcn tcu were last in the front room ?— "Yes." Now you admit you went there before 10 o'clock on the night?—" Yes." Why didn't you tell me that before? —I. didn't think of it." Mr. Morison: "He was only speaking with regard to stock-taking."-

Tlio Coroner: "Yen say. Chief-V>el<><;-tive, that ho has contradicted his evidence. His mind mav not. nave Uiwn directed on tbo question."

Collenlte Purchasers.—Mt. Bongo's Cousins. Continuing, witness said they had no license to stock -cxpiosiv-os. They purchased knee bonts from Staples, Bins Harris, or other firms. The two Knwards he referred to as having purchased gelignite wcto consiiiß. Chief-Detective Broberg: Is tlw one at the Upper Hiitt rokit-od to you! , — "Yes, ho is a. cousin," And the other?—"He is a. cousin. ' Mr. Wilford; You say Vivian told von you were out of gel!.gru<>r—"Yes," Why did you toil the Chief .IMeetiy* there might hnvo been fl- ton of "pjiguit-o there?— Witness explained that lie rarely went- to the rooite, and would not knowabout gelignite. Further witness said he knew dct<mntors would. explode gelignite, lie did not know heat would explodo it. Up believed the dotoHiitars wore required.

Mr. Wilford: If you believed detonators wore required, nud knew van had nono on the promises, you would think that any gelignito there Would not explode?—"l wouj-d .uot chan..?o it."

It is a common belief that gelignite will not cxplcxlo without <lcton»tors?-*-' "I eould nofc. say." Jlr. Wilford read s report showing that it was a c*romon belief that golignito could be tTircv.'n «n tho fire without any explosion. Witness siiid that lw could assure Jfr, Wilford that if ho had thought there was gelignite thews he would l have boeii a long way. away, and would havo taken' nii.v others awn.y. Taylor, Flynn, an<] Mahoncy would havo beon under the gelignite * room if toy were standing; in front ef the counter ni the grocery depsrtnient. Those men wero killed, and received frightful injuries. Witness coold not sviggest- anything which would have caused such an explosion as killed the three men. The Renorator tap was turned off) and tho gas would have had to pfles through the tap to got to the gelignito room. Witness thought he ordy struck two matjlves when he went upstairs en tho Saturday night. Hβ camo down ia the <krk. Ho would have seen any light when, ho was standing in tlio dark.

To Mr. Morison: Tho explosion mast. havo affected him,, tot people had told him that ho did things after tho os-plo-sion, of which ho .had no recollection. Ho hnd no recollection of going into tho generator house after tho expteion, but had beon told lie did so, The, buildings wero old, and were overrun with rats. Tho buildings had been Used ns a general store for 25 years, . So far as tho ordinary run of the business went, ho did not know them was any freltpj-nite in tho building. Ho had inserted mi advertisement in tho Upper Hritt paper on Saturday, inviting tlioso who had purchased gelignite to coiftjnunicate with him. Ho had received <!a» ropfy since.

Gelignite for T?dUt Fishing,

Sir. Morison: It ss eemnwi kuowieogc that gelignite is 'used for trout fisWng? —"Yes."

What would be the best times for using it for that purpose?—"Fe-bni'ar.y and March."

Aro you awaro that tho ranger has been endeavouring to investigate in the district?—" Yes."

If anyone got '.gelignite for this t>urposo, do you think they would bo iikely to answer your advertisement?--"Hard-Would Vivian havjv known, with absolute certainty, on Qie day of tlsc fire whether there was ecligiaite en the pre-' miscs?—"Ho was "in « nositien to know."

Chief Itetcctive Broberg: How tohcli gelignito would a man two for blowing up trout ?r—"l, could fiofc say." : 'If all .tho,detonators,.,l.oo, were used for blowing up trout, at the rate of oms detonator to a stick of gelignito, that would onlv account for another, Ifllb.? -"Tos."* ... • To tlie Coroner: He did not think-a email 4i050, ,-attachod to the twni water supply, would have be«n sufficient ta extinguish tho tire when be saw it first Thia concluded Mr. Benge's ovideac-i, and Mr. Morison ealjed Percival Thomas Edwards, - labourer, Upper Hutt, who said that, he purchased 51b. of gelignite fro.ru Messrs. Bengo aud Pratt on March. 14. He know gelignite was used for trwrfc fishing purposes. Three plugs was tho raoß-t ha had ever seen used for that purpose. To Chief-Detectivo Btfoberg; He used the gelignito to blow up stomps fsr firewood.

Where did you see three plugs used to blow up trout? —"At Akatavawa." Who used itr , Mr. Morison: That- i-s hardly fssir. Chief-Dctectivo Brobprg: Surely yoiir witness would not shield a man tvlio used gelignite to blow up troui! Witness did not know the- raiiii'-s name, but said tha occasion was about s four,years ago. Turning Off the Generator. . Robert George Mabifi, carter, Upper Hutt, called bv. Mr, O'Leary, said that ho was_ present at the tiro and heard the explosion. Ho was in the grain shed at'the back, and ran out. He- saw Messrs. Benge and Pratt there, Mr. Bengo came out of th* generator hftuse, and ho understood him to say that ho had been turning oif the generate". Witness had used gelignite- on occasions. In rock it left ii decided smells but not so much when blowing W wood. To Chief-Detective Broberg: the last witness was a brother-in-law of his.

Tho Chief-Detective: Then you are a brother-in-law to Mr. Bcago'-s cousin? After the intricate relationship had boen explained to witness adnsitted the fact.

The Chief-Doteetlvo: Are tou j.a a position to say Eenge said Tio bad turned off tho generator?—" Yes." Why didn't you, say a&}i&tn£ aioufc it to Sergeant O'Haitoran?—-"1 was ill bed, half asleep, wheti he came round." David Tidswell, labourer, called by Mr. O'Leary, said that tie had had experience" ■with gelignite on the Main Trunk liue. There vras a sickly, strong smell accompanied ffitfa the explosion of gelignite.

Tlio Acetylons Theory, Philip Woll't'Conoceve-, manager in Wellington to the- New Zealand lone Gas Company, and ail fiGe.tj"taie expert, gave evidence that the. generator at Benge and Praifc's was Manufactured hy his firm.

Chief-Dotectiv© Brobetg eXplsincd the evidence as to tho siato of Che. generator whon the premises were closed on the Saturday night of fbo fire, and asked witness how much gas eotitd b«™ generated after thou, ,t<* Use up all tho carbide in tho generator, and witness replied that tho eafbido would liavo been about worited out. About 5 per cent, of gas was necessary to causo an explosion, in. a laboratory 3.35 per cont. was allowed. Both chambers fully charged, would havo prodaced 33ft. of gas, and 71b. would have been required for tltofc. liso s«« burners'in the shop wouH uso that up in about four hours. Acetylene readily mixed with air. The effect of an acetylene explosion would ha towards tho I least resistance.

To the Coronor: Yen could detect «' leftkajjo'of acetylene bsforo you could light it. Escaping acetylene would not ho in an inflammable s-tlrt* after two, hours, and would not be iii tin osplosive stage It could bo smolt long before it reached tho oxplosivo stage. To Chief Detective Brolwtg: Th« circumstances of tho explosion c.mild siot have been attributable to an acetyiofi© explosion. To tho Coronor: If it had. bofiu nn explosion of acetylene it would have occurred long before it <JM. Further, witness said tlmt, aseuiniiig ono chamber of carbide was used ap in two hours, there would haw* been aftout 3.2 cubio feet left in Ifee generator at

ck>wng Timo. Sixty, nnt.iic feet ot air would have UftcH tli« maximum ivmoiuit iiih(looxnksMvo li.y thu quantity oC gus. It would'linvc hiuj pniriiraily (« bo c'onfhiwl in n« Airliqlii- box,'about f>ft. by. 4(1. by aft. •

AuiyiQ.no Explosion fmnossibjo. To Jlr. StfuMen: With gns eeoapiiiß nt ilio into of lift. nor hfiur as> oxutosioii I'euUl not.-' possibly wcour. Ho imil ligured llio circiutiKiuiweK, as to the Hull, generator, ami \V;in s-.itisfkni en explosion of acetylene enuld not ls:ivo occurred.

The Coroner: Supposing the explosion lo hiivo oreurftitl irom the acetylene, wotflil the coiieussiott Imvo Ixvsm suf.iicioat. to brfiiik tin? windows <\i tlw .IW, Oflii'o, on tho oilier side of the roiidi'

Witness: Tlio concussion might liavu dono it. ] have known windows to he shuttered at Mi.

To Mr. Morison: Twenty feet of gaK in. tliow rooms couJd not h<l vo caused an explosion. Sir. Morison: "Whnt features of this oscplosioii nogntivo an acetylcno oxp'o'»ion?—"Ou« witness H«ifJ that tlie flnnio oam'e. dowHwiud, through the liaor." Anything olsoP —"No, with the pxtcption of tlio force- with which things wote throvru tilioiit."

Do you say tho limits «f knowk-dco hnvo.nccu readied with regard to tho 008-ditieiis of esplosibUit.yr—"Wo are always Hinting out soniotliing."

Mr. Wilfofd was grantee! tcavo to put; ofio qiK'stioH witk regard U> Mi , . 51-orison's theory. Ho put it as lotlows:—"If v<9ls niter the cowlitions from those conditions pr-ovefl by the various witnesses-,'tutd bring, into tho room more iicetykiso gfta than can possibly bo there tinder tfcc circumstiiiices, then Mr. Morfson's theory is argaa-We?" And witness roplied; "That is auaiit thft ease."

In roply t-o a. question frmn Jfr, Morisan, Chief Dote.ctive Brobprg said he proposed to call Dr. Ma.clHU.rint Chief uovenuuent Analyst, as tho next witness. Tho anniysis of eortaii.i spots iiindo on the coat of one- trf tho witnesses -showed that iho spots vrero iiot enrbMo; they miglrt have been mud ot grit. 'liw inquiry was adjourned till te-mor row morning.