SERVILE OR FREE ?

Dominion, Volume 6, Issue 1707, 26 March 1913, Page 5

SERVILE OR FREE ?

\ THE NATION'S FUTURE.' SHAW-BELLOC DEBATE. AN INTELLECTUAL DUEL, One definite conviction at least emerged from the rough-and-tumble of debate at tho Queen's Kail on January US—that wnetner the State of the future bo Scrviro or i'reti, its members will, be lucky if it ean .prouuce a keener intellectual <ielignt tnan.a dispute between Jtinaire iselloc ana .Bernard Shaw . concerning its (aueged) servility or ireeuoin (says the "Westminster Gazette"). further tlian-tnat it is competent for no one to go, because fortunately there was iio tribunal last nignt to pronounce upon tho issue. Sir. beiioc declared tnat "if wo do not . re-estabiish the institution of Property .'.we snail re-esutbiisn me institution ot Slavery." To. tvliicji declaration he.adued: "There is no 'tlnrd course." Mr. Shaw denied this with all tho art ht his command. Air. Belloo remained doggedly unconvinced, or .rather remained doggedly convinced. The audience probamy thought Shaw's way, but then it must be admitted that this was mainly a Shavian—or, at all events, a ,l'al>ian—-audience. In-the -end Air. Shaw had to give Mr. Belloo up. Confident that his opponent, as a reasonable human being,' shouiu have bppn converted, still hs had to abandon him—for the time; being. "But lam prepared to go on debating," said. l Mr. Sliaw gaiiy. ."let us'take the Queen's Hall for a /week." And then, tinkle-tinkie—the 'chairman's bell rang. "Ladies and gentlemen, the chairman says 'Time. Mr. Shaw resumed his seat. - .Mr.'Belloo remained doggedly , unconvinced—or convinced—whichever 'way you like to regard

Each champion had been given one hour in which to destroy the other. First Air. Belloc, half an,hour; then Mr. Shaw, liali ■aii 'aoir.-; ■ W, ; ii. tux ncy minute* ' eaciij then, ten minutes each. Sword v. Rapier. , ■ There never was so strongly contrasted V iiair of duellists. One was armed- with a ' broidswoard, the ;other .with a rapier. Mr. Belloc * was emphatic, deliberate, sturdy;-occasionally he wagged.his forefinger authoritatively. Mr. Sluiw, on the other hand, was. vivacious, rsd-hot, 'tremendously happy;-hD seemed to dodge all his enemy's slogger blows and to get home quite anumfier of pricks with that long gleaming rapier of his. But as the enemy turned üb-scatheless each fame, apparently it was only seeming. . .The' debate was iireproachably serious, and even included the debaters' definitions of Heaven and Hell. "1 knew that weshould get to theolo|;y," said Mr. Belloc. Hell, according to Shaw, is "a soit of perpetual fair. where peasants try to cheat ono another." In Heaven there are no peasants, but instead, efficient and welleducated people wording together in.willing service "Cot ndblfc ends, and under high guidance." Belloc's Heaven is "infinite variety" and i his Hell—"the other thing." Very seriouvly the debate opened. "1 propose to spoils' for half an hour," said Mr. Belloc, "inj a manner which will call for the exercise of thought." "I am going 4o talk sense," ho stated, simply. It was admitted,'he held, that whoever possesses the means of production of wealth controls the community. He had heard Hyde Park orators waste hours explaining ithis. - Their audiences always seemed to know it. And we happened to be living in a state of society where tho control .v. as ill the hands of a very few people indeed. Where one family owned, nineteen did not. There had been nothing like tho existing conditions in the history of the world, and : he regarded •them as an ephemeral, a diseased, condition of society. Unless .there was a 'distribution of these means of prod.m&u) "among so a number of the families of the State as .to.-determine; the soul and spirit of the State," there would talre '"1 C ° -ineviably, tho re-establishment of slavery. • .

An Impossible Proposition.,' In Socialism, or 1 collectivism, he s'aw no solution. This .remedy." w*ts merely "to out the means of production into tho hands of the/political officers-of the community, and/to hope,-to expect—nay, to demand—that they shall distribute justly the proceeds .of the wealth"—an impos-sible-proposition. "Whereas this dream has been before a small and earnest majority of men for more tlian a lifetime, and denounced with extraordinary bitterness by fools who are frightened of it, it lias not yet begun to appc-ar in any form. If one proposes something perfectly clear aiid gets a large number of enthusiastic people to agree—hang it all, in tho lifetime of a man something ought to happen!" -Mr. Belloc. brushed ihis' proposed. remedy scornfully aside. "A theory must correspond somewhat to things as they arc, to have any vitality," he insisted. Characteristically, Mr. Shaw began by showing what an admirable thing was servitude—in other words, what he meant by servitude and Mr. Belloc did not. The greatest champion of Socialism in the nineteenth century had left them tho watchword: "Call no man master." Now it appeared as if "Call no man servant" }tas to be tlite last trumpet-call (if it was inspiring enough to be called a trumpetcall) in defence of private property. We are all born to servitude," he said. "Whoever shirks service 'puts on someone else, and. is a thief or a beggar." And the easiest, method of shirking was private ownership,-to which he'was an avowed and uncompromising enemy. Socialism aimed at the organisation of tli>e great service of mankind, in which not only would no person shirk, but, still 'better, no'person would wish to shirk. > "Mr. Belloc abhors slavery," he went on, clearing the ground; "I abhor slavery. He would' distribute private property; I would abolish privato' property and distribute Service."

Heaven and Hell and Other Things. ■Mr. Shaw pursued his attack with a subtle use of ciie old anti-Sociaiist arguments against "dividing up." There was the —inequality of the earth against Mr. Bclloc's , and ; the inequality of man.' Even> if,yon took the" simplest sort of. husbandry, one man would obtain an cxtrL'itioiy .poor living, while another, with very little exertion, wotild amass riches. Spontaneously" ami, voluntarily' the nien with tho poor bits of land would make themselves tlio slaves of those with the goed bits. Moreover, the peculiar faculty of exploiting property was extraordinarily . unequally distributed amongst men. If a man combined low cunning with a good deal of plodding industry, and if he was so constituted that lie was willing to put money first and honour second, then liq could get rich. If he put religion, patriotism, and the welfare of the community first, and if he regarded, as'every well-constituted person must, the pursuit of money as a repugnant necessity, then lie, would inevitably drift into the hands of tjie other person who had the exploiting faculty. He pictured himself 011 a farm, and' -Mr; Belloc on. a farm— l"con- | dunned to the fate-Mr. Belloc prescribed [.for .his fellow-creatures." As for himself, iho would cultivate, "with cannon and i dynamite." What . would Belloc do

i v.-ith a farm:-' "Ke would mortgage it,' said Mr. Shaw naively, "and then where, would his millennium bo?" In the end there would be merely a rivival of exist- ; irig slavery. "I prefer Socialism." he ! concluded, and he invited' Mr. Bellou to < sliow any good reason why he shouldn't. : In his second speech Mr. Belh'c complained that (hey had been talking of i different tilings. . Service was a good j thing, but service was not servitude. As t for the contention that the power or organisation was highly rewarded—that ■ blinded unbelievably niid-Viptorian! Three things made a man rich, as a mat-' ter of, fact, in the modern industrial, gamble: the desire to get rich at the expense of everything else, luck, and a measure of ability fairly common among mull. , His fundamental disbelief in Mr. Shaw's remedy sprang from the conviction that j "the economic function in man was not i the collective function."

ill 1 . vShaw answered 111'. Belloc, incidentally defining Heaven and Ilelb Mr. Belloc replied to Mr. Shaw, also defining Heaven and Hell; Mr. Shaw; again answered Mr. Belloc, and there the matter ended^. AH very sparkling and provocative and stimulating. The hall was packed, and from it a vast stream of people went arguing out into Laiigham Place and the rain.