YESTERDAY IN PARLIAMENT

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1539, 7 September 1912, Page 6

YESTERDAY IN PARLIAMENT

ESTIMATES DISCUSSED.

AUCKLAND GOVERNMENT HOUSE AGAIN.

nTHE NATIVE DEPARTMENT.

MAGISTRATES & JUSTICES OF THE PEACE.

The House of Representatives spent only twenty minutes in dealing with formal business yesterday, and then proceeded at once to further consider the Consolidated Estimates. The Tatum Trust Revocation Bill (Mr. Lee) was read a .third, time, and tho Ross Borough Council Empowering Bill a first time. The East Coast Native Trust Lands Amendment Bill (Mr.. Heme's) was read a second, time pro-forma. .-. ■ The House--went into Committee of Supply on the Estimates shortly before three o'clock and two. classes were put through and a. third entered upon before the dinner adjournment. Nearly two hours were spent in discussing expenditure ion public buildings, domains, etc. Mr. G. V. Peafce, a Tararjki member, took exception to the exVense incurred 'in maintaining a residence for tho Governor at Auckland, contending that one snch residence was sufficient. Mr. G. W. Forbes took up the theme atid moved to reduce an item as an indication that the Auckland Government House should be closed down. Northern members, including the Prime Minister, rallied in opposition to the proposal and ultimately Mr. Forbes withdrew his amendment. - Another long discussion took place on a. proposal by Mr. Lanrenson to shift' the capital.site from Wellington to some' inland part of the Dominion. In this case also an amendment was moved and afterwards withdrawn. ■ The Estimates of the Native Department were put through in fifteen, minutes. Answering a question by Sir Jas. Carroll, Mr. Horries intimated that he was considering the '. possibility of combining the functions, of .presidents of Maori Land-Boards and judges of the Native Land Court. He added that he intended to exhaustively review the Department as soon as he had leisure to do bo. 'To a suggestion that the administration, of Native affairs should be. entrusted to the.Justice Department, . Mr. Herries 6aid that the Native Departmtnt could not be done away .with in the present state 'of affairs. : .

Consideration of the Justice Department/Estimates kept'the/blouse occupied' from five o'clock fnntil neariy; eleven. Mr. Isitt raised a question regarding the that these • officials . were' "inadequately remunerated. .-.'■■' ' / 'The Hon..A". L. Herdman concurred, and stated that he hoped to mtrodnce legislation, next .session to increase, the salaries; of magistrates. •■ ■ '■

Justices of the Peace provided another fruitful source of discussion. The Minister accepted a. number of suggestions, and promised that henceforth justices would be appointed from time to time as the need arose, instead of annually. He also agreed that members of Parliament should be appointed as. justices on being elected if they so desired, and that the same privilege should extend to chairmen of county councils.

The proposal to appoint Crown defenders for accused persons in criminal cases wa3 championed by-Mr." Laurenson and other members.. The Minister dissented from the proposal as advance:!, though he agreed that within reasonable -limits destitute accused persons "should be j.rovided with counsel; ; v

The Estimates of the Department of Internal Affairs irere next put through, and the Honse rose at 1.45' a.m.

Till!? Kf fkKTC B7

THE TATUM TRUST. The House met at 2.30 p.m. The latum Trust. Revocation Bill (Mr.' Lee) was read a third time and passed. A LOCAL BILL. The Ross Borough Council Vesting.and Empowering .-Amendment' Bill was introduced and read a first time. NATIVE LANDS. , The'Fon. W. H. HERMES (Minister for Native Affairs) moved the second reading pro forma of the East Coast Native Trust Lands Amendment Bill. The Bill was read a second time, and referred to the Native Affairs Committee.

THE ESTIMATES.

AUCKLAND GOVERNMENT HOUSE. "NORTH V. SOUTH" CRT. The House went into Committee of Supply to consider the Estimates. On Class V, Public Buildings, Domains, and Maintenance of Roads, .£107,592, Mr. G. :y, PEARCE (Pa tea) 'drew attention, to* "the item, Government House, Auckland, .£IOO. He did not think this country should be required to keep up two Government Houses. Hβ believed that the ..Governor ought to be properly housed, but in view "of the Bizo and importance of the country, quite enough money was being spent on the Wellington House. Another house coyld be leased in Auckland as it-was-desired, but there were too many charges for gardeners" and other things for ■■ keeping up the Auckland House. ""''.' Mr. G. W. FORBES (Hurunui) said that a motion had been carried in tho House by a majority of one in favour of amending the Civil List Act by deleting ell reference in the Act to the Government House in Auckland. He thought the expenditure . on ono house for the Governor- was quite sufficient for the country,'but - it would be impossible to abolish the Auckland seat without an amendment of "the Act. To test the feeling of th» House he would move that the item be reduced by , £1, as an indication that the Civil List Act ought to be amended by the deletion of all reference to Government House at Auckland. Historical Associations. Mr. A. M. MYERS (Auckland East) expressed regret., that exception had been taken to the continuance of a Governor's residence "in Auckland. It was regrettable that objection had been raised by a Southern" member, but reprehensible that the first question had been raised by ,i Taranaki member. (Laughter.) Auckland was formerly the capital of. the country, and the rise in its prosperity suggested that it might be the capital of tho future, , .The historical associations connected with the Auckland Government House were so important that the i people of Auckland would never agree to its removal. A serious attempt in thia direction would be regarded ae a crime, j

Every Governor had evinced a desire to spend a large portion of his term in Auckland, and the proper place for the Governor to reside on his visit to Auckland was surely tho old-established Government House. The building was in excellent condition, and would last for many years. It would be a most reprehensible and retrograde step to carry tho amendment. Mr. A. E. GLOVER (Auckland Central) vigorously condemned the proposal. If tho southern members desired it. he would help them to obtain a Government House in Christchurch. Mr. Pearce: Extravagance. Mr. Glover continued that the suggestion was probably actuated by jealousy duo to tho selection of Auckland as a naval base. The building was built of kauri and "sound as a bell of brass." Mr. Forbes explained that his amendment was in the interests of economy. Mr. Glover replied that it seemed more like a desire to please his constituents, but ho was sure the people of Hurunui would not endorse it. ■ Sir JOSEPH WARD (Awarua) said it was a pit)- the amendment had been moved. It was impossible to cut adrift from the historical relations with Auckland. Such discussions were of no val;j(s. He did not believe that the people in the south were at all envious of the north. ' . ■ Members: Not a bit! • Sir Joseph "Ward added that he would vote against the amendment. Hβ could understand the revival of the controversy every session if any large saving would be effected. The Imperial Government, The Hon. W. F. MASSEY (Prime Minister) remarked that when the member for Auckland Central, the member for Auckland East, the member for Awarua, and he, were agreed on a question it was pretty certain they were right. Ho agreed that it w'as extremely regrettable that the question had been raised again. It was a very great pity that the question of north versus south, was continually being raised in Parliament. ( Many people in the north, and he was one of them, have very strong sentimental feeling in regard to Government House. ApaTt from that consideration, there was the fact that provision was made in the Civil List Act for the maintenance of Auckland Government House, and it' must ba maintained ' until that section of the Act was repealed. Part of the arrangement that was made with every Governor-elect before he left England was that he should have two offi- . cial residences. That arrangement had been, made with the new Governor. Fur- ' ther, the Imperial Government had a. proprietary interest in Auckland Government House aid its grounds, and he did not think they could bo interfered with unless the consent ,of the Imperial/Govern-' ment was obtained. He suggested that Mr. Forbes should withdraw his .amendment, and allow the comparatively paltry item to pass unchallenged. Mr. G. W. RUSSELL (Avon) toid it was not necessary to raise the question of North versus South. The matter had first been brought up by a North Island I member, and Mr. Forbes had moved I i& amendment on the grounds of economy. Ho (Mr. Russell) thought that the time might come soon when the country would be required to establish ti Government House in Christchurch. By keeping up two houses, the Government abandoned the consideration of economy, and other cities ought to make demands for a house for the Governor. He dilated in frivolous vein on the advantages of Christchurch, •its climate, its old-fashioned beautiful architecture, the Avon with its 11 bridges, ~and New Brighton, which was more beautiful than all the resorts of Sydney rolled into one. Also Christchurchwas the homo of the motor-car. Seriously, he thought the member for Ilurunui was quite justified in suggesting to the head of the new reform economical Government to exercise economy in a direction in. which ho would not be in the least likely to agree to exercise it.

. Mr. G. WITTY (Biccarton) justified Mr. Forties's action in bringing forward his amendment.

Mr. J. S. DICKSON (Parnell) said he would oppose the amendment. The metropolitan grounds in , Auckland were practically a public park. Ho added that Auckland needed a new University College building toreplace the old structure serving for that purpose now. Social Privileges. Mr. J. H. BRADNEY (Auckland West) said he regretted that a matter had been brought up after it had practically been settled for all time. "Why," ho asked, "should Auckland, the leading city of the Dominion, bo robbed of its social privileges?" In any case, he added, the sum on the Estimates was a very small item, and if members of tho House were anxious to promote economy, they should begin hy practising it nearer home, and they could make a very good start by cutting down their honorarium by .£SO a year. Mr. A. HARRIS (Waitemata) said that he deprecated parochialism. As an Aucklander ho naturally thought Government House at Auckland should be retained, but he thought that if he were a'southerner he would still hold the same opinion. The late Government had not been sympathetic to Auckland Government House. They had gone there once in the dead of night to take the furniture away. Mr. Davey: Thpy did take it. away Sir JOSEPH WARD (Awarua) characterised as "somewhat contemptible" tho attempt of the last speaker to make it appear that the late Government had not been sympathetic to Auckland. There was.no necessity to introduce party politics into such questions. "Why doesn't ho take a lesson from me?" ho said. "I have fought as hard, and I can still fight as hard, as any man in this Parliament, but I have sufficient common sense to know what a situation is." He did not think that any good came of bickering about tho Estimates. Mr. J. BOLLARD (Eden) also urged Mr. Forbes to withdraw the amendment Mr. G. LAORENSON (Lyttelton) said there was an extraordinary idea in Auckland that the people of the south dosii-ed to deprive the city of all its rights and privileges. That idea wns-not entertained by any person outside asylum walls. As a. ,fact, they regarded Auckland as the most beautifully sitnated city in the Dominion. Ho did not agree with the pro-' posal. Mr. G. W. Forbes explained that the purpose of hi 3 nmendment was to indicate a direction in which economy could be practised. Presently the question of rebuilding would require to be faced. He was willing to accede to the request of the Auckland members that ho should withdraw his amendment, as the discussion had served its purpose in drawing attention to the responsibilities of the future. Leave wag given to withdraw tho amendment. Payments for Rent. Referring to the item .£3500 for rent' The Hon. R. M'KEXZIE (Motucka) asked tho Minister whether he could say what amount was paid this year in Wellington for routs by Government Departments. Mr, I'Vaser replied that ho did not know the amount exactly, but thousrht it might bo well over ,£2oo<l. Mr. M'Kenzie: Don't yon think it la nearer *Slo,ooof

Mr. Fraser: How can that be when the total Ts only i>3500? Finally, Mr. Fraser promised tlint if Mr. M'Kenzio moved for a return the information would lie supplied. Tho cla~s was passed without amendment. NATIVE AFFAIRS. EXTRA JUDGES. i On Class VI, Native. Department, .£23,551— Sir JAMES CAKKOLL (Gisborne) asked tho Minister in charge (the lion. W. 11. Hevries) whether he had considered ths advisability of appointing two extra judges of the Native Laud Court, and also whether he would lake 'steps to fill the vacant position of President of the Tftirawhiti Land Board. The Hon. W. H. HERMES said that tho matters referred to had already been brought under his notice. Ho hoped Judge M'Cormick would soon return from the Cook Islands, and the necessity for an extra judge would then not be eo keenly felt. He intended to defer making the appointment of extra judges until he had 'made up his mind whether it would bd wise to amalgamate the duties of Native Land Court judges and presidents of Maori Land Boards. Until he had formulated his future policy for the administration of the Department lio did not propose to make appointments. He would endeavour to allow things to go on as they wore unless it was too acute. The class was passed without amendment.

JUSTICE DEPARTMENT. THE STIPENDIARY MAGISTRATES. When Class VII, Justice Department, .£■.100,139, was under consideration, Sir JAMES CARROLL (Gisborne) impressed upon the Minister the urgent necessity for appointing an additional magistrate at Gisborne. The magisterial .work hod increased so much that it -was now absolutely impossible for one magistrate to copo with it. It was an extensive district, and one very difficult to travel, over, while the population during the Inst two years had been increasing very rapidly. The Hon. A. T. NGATA (Eastern Maori) supported the request. He suggested that tho Minister should make a tour of the district in order that he should become conversant with what its needs were. But he should go in tho winter time, and Irs might tako with him the Minister for Public Works, and the member for Taumaruuui. (Laughter.) That honourable gentleman would then readily learn what real back-blocks were.

Tho Hon. A..L. HERDMAN said it would be impossible for him to make any appointment until he had visited the district, and he could not do this until alter the session. . ".■ ' In reply.to Mr. Ngata, Mr. Herdraan stated that he had no intention of making any change'in. the administration, of tha Crown Law Office. . .Salaries. Mr. L. M. ISITT (Christcburch North) asked whether the Government had considered tho advisability of raising the salaries of stipendiary magistrates throughout the country. Tho work these men. were required to do was very important, and if the best men were to be obtained they must be paid adequately. The Eon. A. L. HERDMAN said that this matter had been referred to in the Budget. The Government intended to introduce legislation next session to iinpTove the position of magistrates. Mr. G. LAURENSON (Lyttelton) raised the question as to whether it was always wise to appoint lawyers to magisterial offices. He thought thero were others besides lawyers who could determine ciuse3 justly, and he thought that a legal training disqualified a man from being all that was required in a people's magisMγ.' W. H. D. BELL (Wellington Suburbs) said he agreed that it might bo possible to find men who could dispense justice who wero not lawyers. But to be a magistrate he must know the law, and it was more probable that this would ba found in men trained for the law. • Mr. J. A. HA2JAN. (Invercargill) said it was necessary that magistrates should have a knowledge of the law, and that there should be a standard of knowledge of law. On this ground ho defended the appointment of lawyers to magistrates. In any ,caso the selection was not limited to lawyers, for clerks of court had been mnde magistrates. Mr. W. C. BUCHANAN (Wairnrapa) drew attention to the fact that the magistrate for the Wairarapa district did not reside there. This was rather a grievance among the people of Wairarapa, for they often required the offices of a magistrate when he was not'obtainable. On the general question raised lie admitted that there were able magistrates who had no special legal training, buC : they were exceptions rather than the rule. Hβ* thought the practice of selecting magistrates from the legal profession was a good one, and dught to be continued. Statement by theXlWinister. The Hon. A. L. HERDMAN, replying, said he had heard no complaints of inconvenience suffered by people in the Wnirarapa because of the magistrate not being a resident there. .If it were found to lie necessary in tho interests of justice' that ho should reside there, the necessary arrangements would lie hiade. He quite agreed that a stipendiary magistrate should act as coroner. He-thought that wherever it was possible to-do it, magistrates should be selected, from the legal profession. ;It wiis admitted by everybody that many magistrates of the enrlier times in New Zealand, who had not received a legal training, discharged their duties very efficiently. Nowadays, however, the duties of a magistrate were ■becoming more difficult, and more complex than, the work of the earlier days.' It was better in the interests of tho 'country, therefore, that magistrates should be taken from the legal profession. Hβ agreed that magistrates were not paid as they ought to be paid for the responsible work they did. He proposed to consider the whole matter, and next session he hoped to be able to introduce legislation dealing with it. ■ - sss

More J.P.'s Wanted. Several member for bath town and country constituencies urged the necessity for the appointment of more .justices of the peace, and some suggested that members of Parliament ought to be nominated. Mr. W. C. Buchanan (Wairarapa) suggested that the Minister should not, appoint justices without reference to the magistrate for the district. Sir Joseph Ward and Mr. Hanan: It is always done. , Mr. Buchanan said that it was not always done. If it were always done appointments that had been made would not have been made. Tho Hon. A. L. Herdman said that it was the almost invariable practice to instruct tho police and stipendiary magistrates to make searching investigations as to tho antecedents of persons whom it was proposed to appoint as justices. In some cases where the person proposed to be appointed was vouched for, by a Minister of the Crown, this inquiry was dispensed with. If 'members desired it, inquiry would bn made even in these cases in future. Since he had taken office, 120 justices had been appointed. The hunger for justices in New Zealand at the pi-«=cnt time .Wa-s absolutely amazing. Every day ho received letters from lion, members containing long lists of persons whom they, recommended for appointment as justices. Ho agreed that it was not necessary to wait for an annual occasion to appoint justices. They might be appointed from time to time, as the need arose. That course would be followed in future. The only difficulty was that when Parliament was sitting lion, members seemed to seize the opportunity of interviewing him, or sending letters to him asking that justices should be appointed. He had no doubt that if he called for nominations at tho present time, ho would get 200 or 300 from sronllomim then silting in Hie Chamber. In future justices would be appointed, throughout Now Zealand, as the need arose. He thought it highly desirable, as suggested by Sir Joseph Ward, that members of Parliament, on being elected, should become a .Tustico of tho Peace if he desired it. He also agreed with tho member for Matnnrn. that chairmen of county councils should become Justices, in virtue of their office, just of mayors of cities and boroughs did. When an 'amendment to Hip Counties Acv was n.?xt brouzht down, he would a.»k C'nbincl to roiuidcr flip advisability of giving effect to tho suggestion. Mr. E. H. CLARK (Chalmers) . n?ke<l whefchor »orao menn? owild n<jt he rf«Ws«l of protecting witnesses, wtiioularly in

criminal cases. It was not fair that witnesses should have their early history published to the world. This might defeat the ends of justice. It was necessary to test the reliability of witnesses, but ft should suffice if facts about witnosfe* were mentioned secretly lo judgo, counsel, and jury, a.nd Jiot published to the world by means of ))O~sib!v loading questions. The Hon. A. L. JIEKDMAN said that witnesses were protected at the, present time. No magistrate who knew his business would permit such a question to be put as had been suggested by the hon. gentleman. ' Mr. CLAKK said that tho tronblo was that tho question was ofk'ii asked before the magistrate- could intervene. Crown Defenders and Legal Costs. On tho item, "Criminal prosecutions •£12.500"— Air. G. LAUUENSON (Lyttelfon) said that the time had como when public defenders should bo appointed as well as public prosecutors, lie mentioned a petition now before the it to. Z Committee. It was from a man earning three or four pounds a week who had been charged with oil offence. Tho ense broke down, a jury found the man not gnilty, and ho left the Court without a stain, on his character. The bill sent to him for legal expenses was an absolute monsttasity. It contained such items as "Appearing on your behalf, junior and senior counsel, refresher 18 guineas"; "Mr. Blank, taking charge of j-Qur brief, 52 guineas," and amounted to .£347 odd. This .sort of thing was a simplo monstrosity. A. system should bo established under which legal advice could hi obtained at moderate costs or free by persons who we're destitute. The member for Wairnu said that tho amount of the bill was .£323. Mr. J. PAYNE (Grey Lynn) said that he would go further than the last speaker in regard to public defence. It seemed to him remarkable that the House should make laws and that people should hnvo to pay for them. If laws were made people should be not only prosecuted but defended. People should get tho benefit oi the liiws. Mr. Payne foreshadowed a time when the legal profession would disnppoar so far as the acquisition ofprivate profits was concerned. Defending tho Profession. Mr. E. P. LEE (Oaniaru) said that he had met the man mentioned by the member for Lyttclton. This man had himself informed him that he considered tho bill of costs a very moderate one. Mr. Laurenson could have no idea of the amount of legal service which this man had received. He was grateful for those services at the amount put into the bill. Therefore that amount should not be subjected to the adverse- comment of the member for Lyltelton. The bill had been reduced, (because..the.man was in poor circumstances), to .£250. Mr. W. H. D. BELL (Wellington Suburbs) said that tiro-points were frequently overlooked. The solicitor's profession was the only one in connection with which the State gave a -guarantee that' persons resorting to it for advice should not bo overtaxed. Provision was made for the taxing of legal costs that were considered excessive. There was another provision, which allowed a Judge to appoint counsel for accused persons who were undefended. A barrister so appointed by a Judge acted without question and acted without fee.

Mr. LAURENSON" said that he recognised that many men in the legal pro%. sion were of unimpeachable honour. ±le had been careful to say so, and yet the member foy Oamaru had got up, and, in the style o£ Sergeant Buzfuz, had accused him of attacking the legal profession. Mr. Lee had taken the cap and 'fitted it square down over his cars as if it fitted him. As to what Mr. Lee had said about the gratitude of the man who had been spoken of, they were going to ask the' Government to pay his legal costs. Perhaps that explained his gratitude. The day was coming, Mr. Laurenson concluded, when justice should be free, to everyone. llr. G. W. Russell moved tho reduction of tho item "Criminal Prosecutions, .£12,500," by £1, as an indication that the Government should appoint public defenders. Mr: L. M. ISITT (Christchnrch North) thought Crown defenders'- should bo ap■pointed in the. lover. Court as well as tho Supremo. Court. He had always found Crown Prosecutors in the Supreme Court scrupulously fair, but -. sometimes the police pressed a charge a little too strenuously. He also thought that the'bill of costs, about which question had been raised, was very much too long. Beginning at the Wrong End. Mr. W r H. D. BELL (Wellington Suburbs) agreed that Mr. Russell's proposals to appoint a public defender was beginning at the wrong end. Defenders should be appointed first in the lower Court. Mr. A. H. HINDMARSH (Wellington South) defended lawyers in no half-heart-ed manner from the reproaches levelled against them. It seemed to him that these lawyers who Tiad defended the accused men recently had acted most unselfishly. They had undertaken this man's defence, knowing that they had very littlo chance of being repaid. He dkl not think lawyers deserved tho hard things said of them; if there were no lawyers thero would-be no liberty. Tho facts of tho case seemed to be that this man had by standing up for some other clerks, earned the hate of his superiur officers, and .that a charge had Incn trumped up against him. In point of fact the bill was no unjust one. iu consideration of the services rendered for it. He had been in the Court ■ when the easo was being heard, and , he had never known o blacker case against a man. If it had not been for skilful cross-examination and for a fact discovered by chance, tho man would certainly have gone to (.aol.

The Minister's Opinions. ! The Hon. A. L. EERDMAN said the public defender that was in tho mind of some members of the House was a very different- institution from that established under the English Act that had been referred to. Public defenders were justified only on the ground that people were ! sometimes denied justice when they were triod in the Courts, but no man who 'had any knowledge of tho Court could •say that they knew, of any such cafe. Honourable gentlemen must not overlook the fact that the State would, be called upon to. pay not only the fee of the defending counsel but the expenses . f the witnesses. The principle contained in the English Poor Prisoners' Defence Act was a rerj- valuable one, but it was very different from that advocated by tho member for Lyttelton. Jlr. Laurensou had urged thjit in every case coming bo'ore the Court it was the duty of f he Crown to provide a public defender. That position v;as ridiculous. In England, tho magistrate in the Lower Court could in cases where he thought it necessary, send a recommendation to the Higher Court that prisoner ought to be defended. Ho (Mr. Herdman) would have no objection to recommending Cabinet to givo that proposal consideration. Mr. G. W. RUSSELL was satisfied with this assurance, and ho withdrew Ms amendment. Tho class was passed unaltered, MINES DEPARTMENT, ENCOURAGEMENT OF PROSPECTING When Class VIII, Mines Department, ,£32,327, wiis under consideration, the discussion was limited almost entirely ti. representatives oi" mining constituencies. Jt was alleged Hint mine inspectors wore not highly enough paid, that the geological survey staff ought to be increased, and that the reports of geological surveys oilght to be inn de more readily accessible. Taranaki members and 'East Coast members urged that a special geological staff ought to be employed to survey for oil. To all of these proposals the Minister promised to give favourable consideration. Mr. 11. POLAND (Ohinemuri) hoped the new Minister would find time to givo more serious consideration, to the gold mining industry, lloro encouragement ought to bo given to prospecting, and the bc.=t way !o do it was to establish public crushing batteries in tho principal quartz reef districts in New Zealand.

Mr. J. COLV.IN (Bnller) also thought more money ought to be spent on encouraging prospecting. The mining industry had lwsif one* by far the greatest industry in New Zealand, and had done more to bring prosperity to it than any other industry, but now it was neglected. If K00( ] results were to come from prospecting, the outer zones would have to bo explored. In his own di-triet he was tatiMied that there was gold in , tho range?. The Hon. W. FRASKR (Miuister foi Mines) said he had not lived nifKt of his life on a. gnldfield without knowin" fomeihinii "f tin mm.t«f. .lis s tin«l, <C n <\U would give them ooasideratiou, Hβ TOuj,i

see what could be done to encourage prospecting, but he wns ftrily awaro of tho fact that a great deal of money could bo wasted for no Tesult on. what was called prospecting. Ho promised to visit the principal fields,, and especially those in tho Ohinemuri district. Then he would be able to consider tho question of creeling a small battery somewhere in tho district. Twico Mr. J. Pavnc (Grey Lynn) tried to discuss the Wailii strike, but the Chairman mled lwth times that he was out of order. INTERNAL AFFAIRS. MR. H. G. ELL PROTESTS. Class IX, Department of Internal Affairs. .£317,391, was discussed, at first by mi almost empty House. 'Mr. H. O. ELL (Christchurch South) moved to reduce tho vote of .£7050 for the High Commissioner's Office, as an indication that the Minister for Internal Affairs ought to be. a member of tho House of Representatives, lie said thjifc the Prime Minister had often, when in Opposition, raised an outcry about a Minister in charge of an important Department being a member of the Upper The' Hon. W. P. MASSEY (Prime Minister) said that tho member for Christchurch South was about tho most unreasonable member, and not only the most unreasonable, but, ho took the liberty of saying, tho most inconsistent, member of the present Parliament. Ho was finding fault now about the Minister for Internal Affairs being Leader of tho Council. Did ho suggest that the gentleman who led tho Council must not bo a member of tho» Government? Mr. Ell said ho did not suggest this. Mr. Masscy went on to ask whether Mr. Ell suggested that lie should not tako responsibility as a member of tho Government? Mr. Ell: Ho ought to he sitting in this House, though. (Laughter.) Mr. Mnssey: Docs the hon. gentleman not see how unreasonable he is ? ■ How would that be possiblo under the present constitution? In point of fact, nothing was being done now that had not been done during the last 50 years. Ho cited the cases of Sir John Findlay and other leaders of the Council, who had held more important Departments than those held now by the Hon. H. D. Bell. In the present instance the Leader of tho Council had charge only of the non-con-tentious suctions of the Department of Internal Affairs. Mr. Ell, he claimed, had made no protest against the state of affairs in all tho twelve years ho had been in Parliament.

Mr. El) said that he had in fact ni'atlo a similar protest so far back-as 1902, and the present Prime "Minister had followed him into the lobby, but Mr. Massey had never made any protest on his own be« half. He saw that his amendment would not be carried, and ho would.withdraw it. Ths clause .was passed without amendment, and tho Houfb rose at 1.45 a.m.

NEWS AND NOTES.

The second reading debate on Mr. Herdman's Public Service. Bill, which aims at entrusting the control of the Civil Service to Commissioners responsible only to Parliament is expected to commence on Tuesday. There was no sitting of the Legislative Council yesterday. At its rising on Thursday it adjourned until Wednesday week next. .... . The ,A to L Committee'has reported to the House of Representatives that it hod no recommendation to make on the petition of Duncan Anderson, of Wellington, praying for a. land grant for services Tendered whilst a member of the Auckland Militia. Reporting yesterday to the House of Representatives in the petition, of Wni. Rilcy, of Wellington, praying for compensation for extra services while in the Government Service the Petitions (M to Z) Committee made no recommendation. The sime Committee recommended to the Government for favourable consideration the petition of Alex. Yuill, of Wellington, praying for compensation for loss of office as taxidermist. . Mr.. Young will ask the Minister . tor 'Labour whether he will this session introduce legislation which will provide for a secret ballot for tho decision of important questions by industrial unions of workers or by employers' associations. Mr. Mandor is to nsk the Minister for Defence whether lie can explain why only about tlirce sergeant-majors out of about twenty-eight were appointed under tho new defence scheme to ,a higher commiseion, tho others being appointed from civilians,, without any previous experience.