THE UNION.

Dominion, Volume 5, Issue 1333, 10 January 1912, Page 5

THE UNION.

THEIR ATTITUDE TO THE CASE,

QUIT THE CHAMBER,

The Acting-Mayor then directed tho iown Clerk to ask the secretary of tho framways tmion whether ho was prepared to g<, on with, the charges against Infffctor Fuller.

Iho lown Clerk thereupon left Iho cis: inter and returned with the secretary of the union (Mr. A. Sutherland) and two other members of the executive. Iho Acting-Mayor (after conferring with the lowu ( lerk) addressed Mr. Suther land and stated that he understood the union s decision was not to go on with the caso if counsel was to bo allowed to appear. Mr. Sutherland: This is so. Wo consider that tho position is that the case is no longer one between the union ami the City Council; or between the union and Inspector Fuller. It. is simplv a case of employer against employee.. "Tmv employees, us a whole, hnvo made a charge that Inspector Fuller is unsuitable for tho position which ho holds, and the case is now one between Inspector Fuller mid tho council.

Tho Acting-Mayor interrupted Mr. Sutherland, lie remarked that it would bo preferable if nothing of that naluro wcro , introduced.

Councillor Fletchor: Surely he enn give his reasons.

The Acting-Mayor: Ho can go on, but ho must not attack Inspector Fullen Councillor Fletcher repeated his i contention that Mr. Sutherland should bo allowed to state his reasons. Somojoiwin the audience called: "Hear! Hear I- •' Tho 'Acting-Mayor (sharply): If thero is any more applause from tho gallery I will have, to order tho prallery to be cleared; Mr. Sutherland then went on with his argument. _ In any other Department, ho urged, or in (Uβ caso of any other employee below tho rank of inspector, no counsel was allowed to appear to siippoi't an employee who had u> appear before- the management to be disciplined or dismissed. No one was allowed.to appear to plead (he employee's case; ho had to do it himself. In this case the,union considered that Inspector Fuller should bo capable of defending himself. Inspector Fuller's Position. The Acting-Mayor now addressed Inspector Fuller, and asked him, "Are you prepared to go on without counsel f" Inspector Fuller:. N0,...', ■■ '..', The Acting-Mayor: I think the defendant is entitled to the bxpert assistance which ho desires, the other sido also. Since the other side say that they won't go on if counsel are "dmitted, "and Mr. Fuller says that ho v;on't go on without counsel, it seems to mo thnt wo have arrived at a deadlock. Mr. Sutherland: May I ask, sir, whether this will bo set down as a precedent? When other employees are dis- -, missed after this, will they bo allowed counsel? The Acting-Mayor replied that this case was different from anything that had gone before. _ Mr. Sutherland: Might I suy, sir, that it.is not. altogether different to what lias occurred before. Ho then alluded to a previous ease in which an inspector had been dismissed "not many years ago." The Acting-Mayor: We can't go into that. , Tho business is settled. Councillor ShirleliKo thought that the business was not settled. ..The charges made against Inspector Fuller had been published broadcast, and the union had been invited to substantiate thoso charges, It now soemed that tho union could not do it, so long as Mr. Fuller employed counsel. Ho thought that it was only fair that Inspector Fuller should have, nu opportunity of making a statement. Tho Acting-Mayor: That, of course, is a matter for tho other sido to bring forward. I did not the question, although it would bo a fair ouo to ask. I will now ask Mr. Herdinan if ho desires to say anything. Mr. Herdman Opens. Mr. Herdinan stated that ho bad been instructed to attend for the purpose of cross-examining any witnesses called by the Tramways Union in support of charges made' against Inspector Fuller. He had, that morning, received a long list of charges. Inspector Fuller had attended that night for the purpose of answering the charges, Mr. Ucrduinu wout on to stato that no very much regretted that tho union had determined not to proceed, for many of the charges wore of j a very grave character. Tho uniou had east reflections upon Inspector Fuller, not only as an employee oT tho City Council, but (some of them) upon his personal character. It stood to reason that tho matter (from Inspector Fuller's point of view) could not end whore- it then stood. Ho (Mr. Herdman) was not there, however, to criticise the council or tho Tramways Union, in regard to tho attitude which they had taken up. All that ho could say was that they were there to answer any charges tliat .might bo made. As tho Tramways Union had refused lio proceed with their cose—had refused to will evidence, refused to appear, and refined to substantiate their accusations against Inspector Fuller—it was fair Hint flic latter should be allowed now to come forward, ami explain, tho charges. If justice wus to bo done it wus tho clear, and plain duly of the union to brinf their witnesses, let them bo examined, and lct.it bo known whero tlio truth lay.

'"Somo of tho allegations mado by tho uniou," Mr. Hcrdmnn continued, "wo know nothing about; somo of thoni. we believe lo bo inventions: some of them wo do not understand. Wo aro here, with theso accusations mado against this man, prepared to answer them us far ns it lies in Inspector Fuller's power. If those proceedings go on—and I sincerelytrust they will—l hope lh.it Inspector Fuller will lie permitted to state what lie can in Tegnrd to (he charges. > As. , tho Tramways Union liavo refused to appear they should-Dot'be allowed, to cross-ex-amine. I am sure that the council will recognise (hnt, lo some extent, Inspector Fuller has to stand his trial. Any persou standing his trial, should have evidence brought against him. . Witne&es should be called to prove tlie case. The union have elected not to tale that course, and I Iwjjo, sii, that jcra vrill.

allow the inspector to make a btatejneirt in order that tho serious accusations made against him may bo met and his character cleared."

Tho Acting-Mayor replied that if it was t-ho wieli of tho council that Inspector Fuller should 1» allowed to mako a statement, ho.wonld suggest that lie bo hoard. Councillor Cohen made* ,soiu<j remarka (mostly inaudible) to the- effect that tho union ought to he allowed ,1.0 cross-miestion Fuller. The Acting-Mayor:i{they havo made their decision already. Mr. Herdman urged tnat, os his client hod been charged with various offences, niid of misconduct ns a private citizen, he ought to bo allowed to answer thoai charges. Fuller had a right to expect, them to be proved by evidence as in a court, of law.-It was tho duiyof the Tramways Union fo lay their case before the council, and it was only fair that he fjfr Herdman) should have tho right to examine witnesses. If the union elected o take no part in.tho case, (hen it. wa« Hn duly of the council to hear Mr. Fuller >«tV if itho uiiiou refused to call evidence they ought not to Iμ allowed to crosal examine.

Councillor Hindmarsh then said that he would recapitulate certain facts of the case. By a majority vote of the council, it had been considered (hat Fuller should cease lo act as a tramwav- ■ inspector. The case had been inquired into by tho committee, .and he thought that the council had done what they supposed to bo the,r duly. And they were not actuated by tear of (ho uuiou or anybody else nohvithslimding what had been aaid ot them by certain newspapers. Councillor Cameron hern raised a point of order. Councillor Hindmarsh was relerring (o a. previous deba(o. iho Acting-Mayor ruled that Councillor JJindinursh must not refer to a previous , debate. , i ■ . Give Him a Holiday. Councillor Hindmarsh declared that lie was not reterring to the speeches, but merely (o tho action of tho council, and he was allowed fo proceed. Ho wished to show that tho council had decided that Inspector Fuller should nol'occupy, the position of inspector. Tho unfortunate mistake hud been made of putting him back in his position, because notice of a rescinding motion had been given. Mow (hings had arrived at this stage-that tlia council understood that thcro were certain alleged reasons why Inspector I'ullcr should not act as inspector—and it no longer rested with the union aloue to let tho case drop. Tho council wore seized of these plotters, and they must deal with them in spmo way. It'was not like a caso in which a plaintiff sued another party for property, and theu abandoned the case and his property. In this case tho council were, the' real plaintiffs. ■ "Tho council has to see," he went on, "that it has good servants .in its employ. The charges aro put forward affecting the character of an employee, and this council, as employer, must inquire into them.I am going to bo as impartial as I can be, but what I say is this: 1 believe that there should bo somo compromise—not, that I am in favour of tho unioilr-but l> think that Inspector Fuller should no longer act as inspector until the .rescinding motion comes on next week. If you will only be reasonable this can be done. It is this unfortunate way—this employ-. ers 1 way, not tho , way of tho City Council as employer, but the outside employ-• crs , yieiy—of dealing iwith the' mutter .that ,is the trouble. Nobody need think tlmt 1-have reonsulted with any members of the union, because I havo not dono so. If tho council- will give Inspector Fuller a holiday until next Thursday week things would- bo all right, and "I say we ought to do that. If we don't do that, this motion inav lead to all kinds of ridiculous things. Ho went-ou to say that if,.lnspector Fuller wcro given a holiday the case. could bo finally decided on Thursday week. If tho majority decided for Inspector Fuller, well anil good; if-the council decided to move , him to some other department, all well. If Fuller wero allowed to mako a (statement, he (as a councillor) claimed a, right to cross-oxamino him. He moved that tho motion (as carried by tho conn- , oil) bo given effect' to as far' as' possible )).V giving Inspector Fuller leave of absence- .until Thursday week, ishcii the rescinding motion would conic-'on?'

No Half Measures. 'Councillor'Atkinson 1 rose'to'a'point of order and submitted that the motion pro-" posed by Councillor Hindniiiwh was out ot order and beyond the scope oi' the bnsfnoss which the council had before: ifthat evening. Iho position of : tho council was judicia or, at anyrale, quasi-judicial, and Councillor Ilindmarsh had raised a question which was clearly irrdeviLUlv Hβ asked the -Acting-Mayor to rule ihc mo. tion out of order. ■ .-'. The ■Acting-Mayor ruled that the in<* tion pressed by "Councillor Hindmai-sh. was irrelevant and inadmissible. ' Councillor 'Atkinson went on to remark Hint tho council was bound to listen to anything winch Mr. Herdinan might have to say, and to any evidence that his Client had to oiler. Some councillor had suggested that tho Union' should be- asked to reconsider its • decision. > Withdrawing Uieir evidence (hey would lose the rifcht ■ to examine, and it was very desirable tlint the union should examine, lie strongly supported tho suggestion that tho union should be asked to reconsider its. decision.. fhe alternatives before tho union were ft complete withdrawal or a complete attendance. Councillor HindtnaTsh had staled the position quite correctly so f;ir as tho duty of the council in conducting the inquiry whs concerned. Councillors in this case were commissioners acting in a judicial capacity, and it was often the duty of a jiulgo-to cross-examine ■ very closely. Councillor!! ccrlainlv should put such questions as they .thought calculated to elicit the truth. Councillor Cameron contested a statement by Councillor Hindinursh that the council figured in this case as'plaintiffs. JIo ugreed with Hie statement of the Mayor fMr. Wilford) that the union occupied tho position of plaintiffs, and Inspector Fuller the position of defendant. The council should take no sido in this matter at all, but should be strictly impartial. ' The Acling-Mnyor: Is it the pleasure of tho council that tho union bo again asked if they are prepared to go on with, their case? The reply was a chorus of affirmatives. "Xov, Mr. Sutherland," said tho Act-ing-Mayor, "are you prepared to go on with tho ease?" Mr, Sutherland! "Xb, your Worship,) we are not prepared, on tho condition?, to go on with tho case. Councillor Cam-, oi'on asked you a mohiont ago if the union would be prepared to' withdraw anything of the charges made against Inspector Fuller. On behalf of the union, -I say emphatically, 'No! , but what the union would do would be to add to them!" The Acting-Mayor: 1 think the position now is thnt the executive of the union become portion of tho public, and must withdraw. Mr. Sutherland and his colleagues thereupon left the chamber.