THE ESTIMATES.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 1243, 27 September 1911, Page 6

THE ESTIMATES.

WORKING RAILWAYS. oTJB URBAN ",TRAITIC FACILITIES. In Committee of Supply on the Estimates (Working Railways Department, total voto ,£2,375,000), The Hon. J. A. MILLAR, Minister for Railways, speaking of suburban railway traffic, gaid that great pressure had teen brought to bear, with a view to getting a lower rate for suburban traffic. The matter could not be dealt with casually. He would have to sea where the matter would end before agreeing to any further concessions...As-to «n order had bean sorit to Thornycroi't'sfur two. of their motors, ■Sα. that the .Government.could build the carriages here. Owing to pressure, of business, however, the order could not be fulfilled in time, and a oable lind been sent cancelling i( if the motors could not be shipped at oac-a. Inquiries were being made from the-'Westinghouse Company and other companies in regard to motor-carriages, bath for tho, suburban and for ether linos. As soon as the' Department .could, got thorn on the. lfnes they would belutilistd. It had been stated by. j\fr./He.rvies ■. that the only chance the' HouseSiWnild have of discussing the salaries amfwages in the- Railway Department would be on a Bill near tho end of the session. He (tho Minister) was prepared to brine; the Bill down now, but was holding it back ,50: as to'be ftblo to jrive members fuller. information first. In ■~reply to Mr. Jennings, he did not feel inclined to table reports' oh inquiries conearning men who hail , beeii dismissed , from the, service.. "■ ■ ' •'■.'

Mr. Jennings: ft was a public inquiry. Tho Minister said it might injure men to have- such reports made public, but he was prepared to show them privately to any member of- the House. licforo the. Minister had proceeded much further "the press representatives, being unable..to hear-him owing to the amount of general conversation in Iho , Chamber, left the gallery. Aft'er about half an hoar, order haying lieen restored, the reporters returned. '. 'A Radical Proposal. Mr. C 4. M." THOMSON' (Dnnedin North) urged that, railway tickets should bo treated as postage stamps now were. They fihould be sold at any time, should be available for use on any day that a perron liked to use them, aiid they should Ij.i transferable from one person to another. It was in the interests of tho 1 ravelling .public that tliesu changes should bu made. It was also (hat wayside stations should bo more plainly marked. At present passengers ivcri; liablo.to.be confronted at many stations by. advertisements ofsheep-dip or schnapps, and to ..look: in vain for tho name of the station.

Mr. E. H. ItHODES (Ellosmcre) suggested that the railway service on tho "Wairarapa line might give greater satisfaction if the new rule of separating Knods and passenger traffic were abandoned and the Department reverted to tho • old plan of running a number of mixed : trains. - ■ Mr. G. J. (Mataura) pointed out' that newspapers were forbidden to advertise alcoholic liquors in No-License areas, but that- the restriction did not apply to railway station advertisements. Ho contended that f,he law should be , made consistent on (his point. Mr. W. C. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) asked the Minister whether ho could ceo his way to luiike a more liberal allowance to tli? nieii who had to work in poironous smolce , in tho tunnels on tho Waivarapa incline. Mr. Buchanan stated that if one subject more than another was condemned in.the Wairarapa it was the <idministr.itf.on of the' Railway Department. It look rather longer to got to Masterton at the p.rcsiiit'time than at did ywire ap". Ho hoped the Minister • would look into the riucstimi of improv""ing the Wairarapa Hme-tablo. At 'pt-p-Mnt lime was allowed' for shunting all along tho line, and the running was deplorably slow.. Only a Dranch Line. The: Hon. .7, A. MILLAR, replying to' questions raised, said he' did net think old m'embws would ever admit that the Wairarapa was only u branch Jin?. As an instance he mentioned that some local residents had assured him that a train run'at a given time betwam Mnsterton • nnd AVoodvillo would pay handsomely. He gave tho train at the lime asked for, with the result that the Department lost ,£■lß a week upon its running. As soon as more trains we.ro required in tho WaiTarapa they would be put on, but at pre- ,*"" pent all requirements we.ro reasonably* >' nwA. This had been attested by tho Masterton Chamber of- 1 Commerce. Tho r admitted that, sooner or later, the Parnell tunnel would have to bo du- , plicated, but them. were more piyjssinir works which would command earlier attention. The question of suburban rates Tuacl again been raised by the member for Franklin. What he wn-< nsking for was the -xtwviinn of ttvenfy-niilo suburban n'-i.-ijr ;;;s to every pcisin.l traveller who lifc«l to come along. E<> was being asked on every hand to increase- revenue and to increase expenditure. If theso ■-■nflictmK claims vert pressed thsro could only be oiw result. Ho was prepared to" hang on to rcremio until ho fould we what was to bo '■■ 'Vmr> in extending suburban privileges. Mv. Massoy. They do it in Australia. TV Minister pointed out that Australia had a much srreater population than New Zealand. The suggestion of the member for Diinetlin NoTth that-tickets "* should bo obtainable at any time and should bo made transferable was is* priicticablc. At present tickets could lie obtained on the day before a journey was mark To maintain iin efficient, check i> nd protect revenue* it was essential that Hip present restrictions should, bo main, tainod.

/Sir Av K. GUINNESS. (Grey) said that rather than , reduce long-distance fares, a concession which would chiefly ailed, ! tourists, tho Minister should have reduced the-return fares so as to beneiit iwiidonte in Now Zealand. Mr. W. If. FIELD (Otuki) complained that not enough had boon done for tho snttlers. along tho Manawatn railway The service between Pnekakarilu w.;s most inadequate for si suburban service. The Minister had insisted on a guarantee, but there could be no guarantee until there were residents to givo it; ami there could not bo o."Oiigh residents uuW thers was a better train service. Freight on Timber. Mr. BUXTON (Goraldine) urged that thu protection against imported should be given by way ut (lie Customs instead of.as at present by diheraitial railway freights wliich penalised the upcountry settlers in comparison witli tlie residents of tht ports. ~ Mr. G. .1. ANDERSON (Matanra) said that tho differential rates on imported timbers were a hardship to tho Southland settlers. , , ,- ~ 1 Mr. L. M. ISITT (Christchurch North) said Christchurch was at a similar disadvantage as compared with Timani and other ports. . , ~ Tho MINISTER said when Ihe railway motor cars arrived they would bo distributed as fairly ns possible in different parts of tho country. Ironbark timber was much heavier than our native timbers, and' therefore more costly to carry. Oregon was in competition with local timbers,'and there had been differential rates to protect.the local industry tor } °.\ uiMuliM: Why not raise tho Customs tariff at the ports? The Minister: That would not benefit the railways at all. . Mr.. FIELD made further complaint of the Manawatu railway time-table. I here were trains enough, but they ran 111 bunches, morning and evening, with almost nono between. Consequently it took a day to go to town and back from any station north of Pnokakuriki.. He also asked that the Napier mail should stop at Tokomaru on Saturdays, to suit the llaxmill hands. He was glad to hear that tho Department would at lost fulul its obligations and attend to the fences along the-line. He also, advocated (he survey, of the Waiknnnc-Upper Hutt deviation. Atr. BUCHANAN said that there was no adequate New Zealand substitute for ironlxirk, but he thought it was quite right to protect the sawmilling industry against imported Oregon. Mr. PEARCE (Patea) spoke of the handicap to local bodies on account of tiio freight on ironbark. He also made representations as to tho need for railway station improvements nt Hawera. ' Mr.. FIELD urged the 'claims ot the proposed Levin-Foxton-Greatford deviation. If the government was not prepared to make the line, it should , accept an offer from the settlers. Ho also thought the Government should tako over the Sundon tramway. Mr.- J. P. LUKE (Wellington Suburbs) thought more construction work should bo dono in the railway workshops and thero should'be less importation. The suburban train service on'tho Manawatu line was badly in need of improvement. The. introduction of motor-cars and motortrains ought to revolutionise tho suburban traffic. . Mr. MASSET said ho agreed with the member for Geraldine that tho railways should not be used for protective' purposes. The rate and a half on imported timber was a hardship .in his district. The present arrangements as to fares and freights ought lo be thoroughly revised.

Ministerial Reply,. Tho MINISTER said he was quito prepared to run tho train and take half rho kiss if the residents would take the other half, bnl they had refused. He was prepared to try a train for a.month, leaving' town at 5.25,. and they would .see what the loss would be. The Department had kept running a service to Johnsonville Dial , tho old Manawatu Company had refused to run. He was prepared to carry certain trains on from Porirua to Johnsouville if the residents woutd guarantee ,£750. Neither Levin nor Otaki could be made a permanent stopping sta-, tion for the 'Main Trunk expresses. Ho would not have them turned into local trains. The extra freight on imported hardwood only amounted to Is. Id. more for ipo..feet, tor'so miles... That , quantity of timber would make three gates. If carried 100 miles- it wonld mean Is. 7d. extra. .They could not say that was ruining tho back-blocks settlers. ■ Tho local bodies were now using concrete instead of ironbark 'for many of their • bridges. Tho best , way (0 remedy' the trouble at tho Hawera station would bo to stop shipping pigs there and ship them at Nornianby instead. Ho would bo ; prepared to do that.. . , Mr.-R. W. SMITH (Rangitikei) supported tho principle bf tho differential freights on hardwood, and Oregon. The class was. passed without amendment at 0.30 a.m. , . t Late.Sitting-A Protest. .-. When the next class, Public' Buildings, Domains, and Maintenance of Itoads (£91, : n7) was called upon, Mr. MASSEY reminded the Prime Minister that this' was the first night of tho week. It was" rather late. Thcro had been talk about late sittings, and conservation of tho health of members. Hβ hoped the Prime Minister would bo reasonable,- and consent to report progress. ■ ■■ / The PRIME MINISTER said he regretted that ho could not accedo to the request. At this rate the House would Iμ occupied with the Estimates till Christmas. Ho would be content if they took Public Buildings and the Mines Department Estimates.

. Mr. ■'MASSEY inquired what it was intended' to do with a vote of ,£'2flOO for Parliamentary Buildings. He desired to know hoiv much longer they were to remain in the wretched old tumble-down sEcd which they now occupied. ■ What had been done with the ,£2OOO voted Inst year,, and what was it intended to do with, tlie .£2OOO asked for now.?

Th> Hon. l<. M'KENZIE said tho building they occupied ivas 38 years old. and naturally a good deal was required in the way of repairs and maintenance. Members would bo glad to hear that the gentleman who had come over here from Australia to judge the designs for tho new Parliament Buildings would probably finish his work on the following doy, ami that the plans would probably be ready for'tho examination of members at the «nd of the week. He had very great hopes that a start would be made on. the foundations oi the new building as soon as members left at tho end of the present session, and that by the end of the second session following the new buildings would be ready for' occupation. 'i'lio .£2OOO nou , reoiiirod was for repairs to and maintenance of the- present building. • "" Mr. HEKDMAN asked the- Minister to stale what it had cost to keep tho present Parliament Buildings in order, to construct tin , "tubs," and put the buildiiiK across Sydney Street in order. It was difficult to obtain information, but he fancied that a considerable sum must have been spent since tho fire occurred.

The MINISTER replied that tho proper time to givo the information* asked for would be when the Public Works Estimates were brought down. Ho would , have pleasure in giving the information then. Mr. MASSEY said he understood that tho state of affairs at Avondale Mental Hospital, which had been the subject of comment earlier in tho session, was simply dreadful. He would like to know what it was intended to do in the matter. The Hon. E. M'KE'NZIE stated that plans wero in hand for a new Mental Hospital at Tokanui. .The total vote in the class was passed without amendment at- 1.5 a.m. Mr. MASSEY repeated his proposal to report progress. Tho PRIME MINISTER still declined to agree and Mr. Massey moved to report progress, and called for a division. The motion was defeated by 32 votes to 15. THE PACE THAT KILLS. MR, MASSEY PROTESTS. Tho Chairman of Committees then called upon tho Mines Estimates, but the Prime Minister directed that the Native Department Estimates should be taken. Mr. MASSEY declared that if the hon. gentleman proposed to take tho Native Dopaxtment Estimates ■or those of any Department of equal importance he could dfs-ure him that ho would get home in time for breakfast. The Prirao Minister: I have not tha sfehfawt objection. Mr. Marecy: I don't want to.do anything unreasonable, but I am act going to hi driven,

Tho Prime Minister: Then you had boiler not nCtoinpt to ■ drive us.. It isentirely n matter for Hip to decide whether it is going to ilo a. reasonable amount of work m>oll the Dsthnatos for i'lio dtiy. It is a certainty that it has not done so to-day. My business is to see that (lie work is done smoothly and if it can't bo done smoothly it must be done roughly. Mr. Massey: Very well, then, it won't bo done at all.

•Mr. Massey, after further discussion, said: The country wants its Estimates and public expenditure looked into, and any legislation that is passed on to the Statute-book properly investigated. I regret exceedingly that the Prime Minister has taken up this altitude, which is not a reasonable one, but 0110 of despotism. He has assumed the position of 11 dictator. In a very few weeks ho will have to answer to "the country for the manner in which he has conducted the business of Parliament. The Prime Minister: I am not afraid to answer to tho country. Tho Native Department. Tho Committee then proceeded to consider tho Estimates of the Native Affairs Department. Mr. MASSET referred to tho item of .£375, salary of the president of Che Waikato-Maniapoto District Maori Land Board. In addition to what he received from the Crown, he was expected to get abo'it .£3 a month from certain speculators. The Hon. A. T. NGATA raised a point of order, as the matter was before tho Native Affairs Committcs. . ■ Mr. Massey was, however, allowed to ask tho question whether it was a fact that the president of the board was to receive a sum of money on account of acting as trustco for a number of men who had acquired some land that was a few months ago Native land pure and simple. , Sir James Carroll: That is so. Mr. Massey: Then he has been placed in a most invidious position. I am not sure that it is-not Maori land even now, but he has Ixcn allowed to mortgage it and to draw traveUinsr expenses. Sir JAMES CABROLL said he was not Roing to argue the Mokan case now. He had answered Mr. Massey's plain question, but he differed from his views. Mr. MaKcy could move the reduction of the item. /Mr. MASSET said that was what he had intended to do. He moved:—"That the item be reduced by .£1 as an indication that the president of the Waikato Maniapoto Maori Land Board had been placed in an improper position by •being allowed to act as trustee of land which, a few mouths ngn, was Native land, and now practically belongs to private individuals, and also on account of the fact that ho is receiving money from those individuals." Mr. Massey said this was a public matter, and there should be novmystery or secrecy about it. ' ' The motion was defeated by 29 to 15. Class VI. Native Department, total vote J!21,434, was passed unaltered. ' Progress was reported. Tho Houso rose at 2.30 a.m.