HOPELESS MUDDLE.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 1178, 13 July 1911, Page 2

HOPELESS MUDDLE.

THE GROCERS' PETITION. CHINESE HOLD THE TRUMP CARD. SMALL MAN'S POSITION, Somo stranpe nnomnlies origins out of Uio labour legislation nlFocting shopkeepers were givon voice to at an interview which a number of small- .shopkeepers hnd yesterday with the Minister for Labour (the Hon. J. A, Millar). Two ladies wore among the number. The deputation was introduced by Mr. I. M. B. Fisher, ."U.P. Mr. Fisher said that it represented the small shopkeepci.i of Wellington. 'l'he object was to appeal from a requisition that was now >elore the City Council regarding the hours ■of closing grocery shops. A requisition was being taken round by what were classed as the Luge shopkeepers, asking for certain hours to be fixed for closing. The small shopkeepers al«o had their counter-petition; but it wastenre "the °nin?e"'nf n contained rue name» of Chinese shopkeepers, and pur ov" U nf nf sho P k, *PM - f °r the "elTf ?L I Pi et, i t,o, i unlcss n!ltur ®'- Ah FUl,..r , s " 1 ? 1 . 1 s^ oPkocper,0Pkocper, continued sho' ock' f rC to ,'? o askcd to cl °* »t li i fi •' would practicallv mem that they would erase to exist The ro'cloek'"" 11 n lO kn , ocked O,T work . 0 clock was then- chief customer, nnd nti'o 01, s ?M- to the mini too late to.obtain his purchases if os 3 hours were to be obse'ved Ygaii the shops were closed, but the publicii?« SCS i ?-®i° op<m ' an<l the oclds were on posal wouM " SOS - Th ° cff<!ct of thc Proposal would mean, practically, giving greater power to those places which were Sl'St 5 "" 16 lar^r whiVh'tw i VC 7 , con(l 't>on under wnich these houses had built up their trade were now to be denied to the mm of the present generation. They wanted Citv Cnmf 'I " th Y € f t,uisiti<m from tho Utj Council came liefore the Minister 11? n ,, ?n ni° ,v ! lat ,vas P° ssi,)lo to conserve the small shopkeepers' interests, and avert them ,p! slnps wllicll would press upon inrl f'w' rime f. , ™ re not good at present, and thej would become much harder, and go tofte wan" 083 pe ° plc W0,,1d to

Chinese Competition Unimportant, Mr. Beauchamp, one of the small shonsSeenn™l tUa ,V he J' etiti ° 11 ° f «><. W tinn «f ti p! 1 ' 110 crilS ' l the eompeti13psirTo- ' tli !l e£ 7 a * was suggested, afra l°of fl, 1 s J" , .P kce P»'s were not h t nf ti, i com I >c 1 i:,,10 » of the Chinese, but of the largo shop-keepers who were trjjng to crush them out. At present it took all their time to malco ends meet se-M? Id ave 1° do from fift y to sWl'lu \ ( 11C ' r ceilt - moro (rade More in* it > l t!,em for closclock - 1,1111156 the '"ge busiwhich were against them, tlfev did not uO a delivery trade, but depended on the evening results, when the householdCio could buy at their leisure. If the IhTtw" "Ti r a,ltNl ™ ~l(1 mcaH if iVI • have to close up. Manv of the signatures on the requisition were a"* •i y , rc P roEc ntations. Many si nin" olskmd wlmt they were thi] le S illiS r, r - : If the Cit y Col,nci l find that t.ie petition contains tlio names of a majority of the trade, 1 have no option m the matter. That is the law. Mr. Fisher; But what about the position of the Chinese shopkeepers not being »ookod upon ,is shopkeepers'•* The Minister: That will be for the Lrown law officers to go into. Mr. Fisher: Apparently, under the law, a Chinese is not a shopkeeper for the purposes of a petition such as this; but it lie evades the law he is a shopkeeper for tlie purposes of the Act. . The Minister pointed out that the Court interpretation had given it that that a shopkeeper s business was defined bv the chief line of goods.he sold. If the Chinaman merely stocked groceries'he would have to close.-' • - ••

A member of the deputation: Then, whilst we, as grocers, will have to close at six o clock, a Chinaman who sells greengrocery, and grocery as a side-line, can really keep r open till ten o'clock? ■ii " ' le 's not a grocer, he will not bo deemed to be ono according to the law. ° Mr. Fisher recalled what had transpired last session, when they had gone into the matter of a grocer who sold tobacco m. a t°''acconist under the law. The Minister.replied that not he, but the shopkeepers were responsible for what had been done in that respect-that a man must bo the ownir of a place beforo a shop could be kept open. But no sooner was the provision incorporated, and enforced, than the very same shopkeepers begged and prayed that it be cancelled. A shopkeeper: It wasn't tho small shop, keepers.

The Minister: I am speaking of the representatives of the shopkeepers. ■

"Froe-trade in our Lines!" Another shopkeeper: Pork-butchers sell most of our grocery lines—aro these people going to bo recognised as grocers? It seems that these men are to be given free-trade in our lines by compelling us to shut up! Mr. Millar:.lt is not me. Don't blame the Minister. You must blame your own association who asked for the legislation. Mr. Fisher: Wo don't blame you at all. But we want you to advise us. A member of the deputation went on lo contend (hat minorities should .be heard in such a matter as this. He did not see why one hundred bis shopkeepers should have their voice heard and eighty on the other side have no standing at all. Find Out the Position, Mr. Fisher said the only, thing the Minister could do would be to ascertain the position regarding tho Chinese shopkeepers. If a Chinaman could be convicted for evading tho law he was also entitled to be considered a shopkeeper for other purposes. A speaker pointed out that if the hour of closing were to bo eight o'clock instead of six it would not be so bad. Another member of the deputation wanted to have some one font round amongst those people who had signed the petition allegedly on misrepresentations. He maintained that the majority of tho shopkeepers wore against tho early closing if tho true facts were only known. Tho Minister said that that was for the City Council and not the Labour Department to do. Tho law said that where a requisition had been signed by a majority in the trade, and had been certified to by the local authority as containing bona fide signatures of peoplo in tho trade, the Labour Department had nothing to do in the matter, except confirm it, and that law then stood for six' months. Thin Edge of the Wedge. "And tho ncNt thing these gentlemen will do," said a member of tho deputation, "when they have the thin edge of the wedgo in. is that they will try to push the whole thing through Parliament so that it can be placed oh the. Statuto Book." Tho result would be empty shops all over tho place in Wellington. A number of the small people would be absolutely crushed out. Mr. Millar said he would have inquiries made in regard to the position of the Chinese signatories. But he made it clear that he had no power to ston the requisition if it were duly endorsed by the City Council. He suggested that a deputation should sen the council and tell it what had just been told to him. Tho Position. Mr. Fisher said that there were, eighty signatures on the petition of the largo shopkeepers, and on tho petition of the small grocers forty-nine, and another forty-nine Chinese'signatures. But if the forty-nine Chinese names wore to bo struck oIV il would mean a minority. The Minister again referral to the law as it stood in regard (o this matter. If a Chinaman sold tobacco, vegetables, and seeds il could not lx» said that ho could sign a requisition for all of these trades. It had been held in the court, when (hey tried lo get the Chinese defined as tobacconists. that tobacco was only a side line. To do what the deputation suggested would mean that Messrs. Kirkcaldio and St.ains, for instance, would havo to sign for every trade going. A shopkeeper: Would it not be possible to grant a stay of proceedings until the Chinese bccame. naturalised?

The Minister: I can't stay proceedings. If the requisition is in order we have no power to stop the gazetting.

The Chinaman's Immunity,

Mr. Fisher: Under the operation of the Act, if yon put jewellery in your window and sell greengroceries yon would lie held to bo a jeweller? The Minister: It is whatever is yonr main line of business.

A shopkeeper:' Then even if the requisition is granted, Chinese who have greengroceries as a side line can still keep open h

The Minister: Yes, practically so. The position would be the same as in the case of the tobacconists in that respect. Mr. Fisher: There is no doubt that if you are a Chinese you aro in the best position of any. "Thank God, I would rather be a Scotchman!" said a member of the deputation, devoutly. 'Hie Minister promised to make all )>ossible inquiries and to lot the deputation know what could lie done. If the law was wrong they would have to alter it.

A LETTER. ON SELLERS OF GROCERIES. [To the Editor.] Sir,—At a grocers' deputation to the Minister for Labour, Mr. F. M. B. Fisher, M.P., spoke for tho deputation, and is reported in another journal to have said that "tho requisition had been taken round by representatives of tho large grocers." This statement (as to what Mr. Fisher is alleged to have said) is not correct, as the petition contained the signatures of the majority of small grocers. Mr. Fisher, is also reported (in tho same journal) to have stated to tho Minister that the shops would bo closed at C p.m. on "five" nights in tho week, and at 0 p.m. on Saturday. This statement (if it was really made, as reported) is also incorrcct.

The grocers' petition asks that the hours of closing bo as follow:—Monday, Tuesday, Thursday, and Friday, at 6 p.m.; Wednesday, 1 p.m.; Saturday, 10 p.m. The petition also asks that grocers may keep their shops open till 6 p.m. on Wednesdays in any week on which a public holiday falls, and till 10 p.m. on any night immediately preceding any public holiday set out in the Shops and Offices Act. Why there should have been any misannrehension regarding the netition'is difficult to understand. Instead of favouring the large grocers it would, in my opinion, havo a distinctly opposite effect. I think that the large grocers have conceded more to tho small grocers than could lw expected, which may easily be seen by a careful perusal of the petition. I further contend that, under the section of the Act on which tho petition is taken, the Chinese must close their shops as well as Europeans, as they are also large sellers of groceries. If the petition contains a majority of signatures in favour of tho hours stated in the petition, then all sellers of groceries (whether Chinese or not) must, close their shops in accordance. I strongly disclaim the inference that I represent the large grocers only.—l am, etc., JOHN CAMERON. Representing Grocers.