A LIVELY HOUR AND A HALF.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 1141, 31 May 1911, Page 8

A LIVELY HOUR AND A HALF.

MINISTER AND DEPUTATION. WARD! WORDS. THE LABOUR DEPARTMENT ATTACKED. ACT TO BE AMENDED. A lively hour and a half was passed in the room of the Minister for Labour (the Hon. J. A. Millar) yesterday on the occasion of another deputation from tho Wellington United Furniture " Trade .Union.'■ The deputation, which was introduced' by Mr. W.. H. Field, M.P... consisted of Mr. D.- K. Kennedy, president of the union, Mr. G. W. Allen, and Mr. D. Moriarty. Excess Freight on Tools. Mr. Moriarty asked that provision should be made whereby members of the union,' when travelling to work in the country,' should be granted a concession of freo freight for. their tools. Mr. Moriarty pointed .out that it was ouly in timed of distress, and when work was not" available in town, that men were forced to into tho country, and tho tools ran from lewt. to 2cwt. It was a Bcvere strain at such times for the men to pay. the train fnre, let alone excess on their tools. The suggestion was not meant to apply to men sent into the country by an employer, and, to get over any chance of complications in direction, he: would suggest that in the' event , of a member of 'the union going' away to a position in the country, no exemp- ' tion ticket should be issued unless tho man was provided with a certificate froni the secretary of the union. Such a certificate, it was contended, should entitle the guards to allow the exemption. "I really can't go further than the existing-regulation,.which is a very liberal' one indeed,", said the- in reply. Ho thought it was a very fair concession to allow 1121b. of .'tools in addition to baggage. They were not going •■ to , open . the-'door'for employers • to send up .tools wholesale. The -passenger, trade was increasing, and the baggage vans getting full of luggage, and be did not:intend to increase the free list on railway carriage as far as he was concerned. If the' Department carried 1121b. of-workers tools free, he did not think it was asking too much in demanding excess 'on any- ' thing above this amount.' '.- Mr. Moriarty: Is that done at present t '- The Minister: Yes. , . , • ~ Mr. Moriarty: I don t think your omcials know it, then. .... , . , The Minister read angulation which provided that workers would be allowed to take with them free-of charge up to ,1121b of working tools, or work which they are doing at their homes. He rould see that the attention of the-offi-cials was drawn to the' regulations, and that the position was made clear to, the Department.. .• .. ' . . • ■ Mr. ■Moriarity remarked , that this-would meet the requirements of tbe .union. Mr. : AHen stated that he personally had .had td pay on,his tools. . ' ■ The Minister said that if Mr.. Allen oould'give him the date of the occur- ' Tence-.he would have inquiry, made.into the matter. , ■' . ' Workers' Compensation. Mr. Moriarty proceeded to deal with the -,matter of the Workers'. Compensation Act,.. \-\n& the position which''had arisen be-, Hween-the workers: and the insurance com-, i 'jianies'in the settlement of claims. At the same time he must say that the workers met"■•\vitlv-fair* and- just-treatments from tho Government Insurance. ine other companies,.however, were apparently out to raako "as much.-, profit' as --they, possibly could.- Things-had got .to-such a position with the companies that qn ane occasion a worker!,who had-met-with; 3ii accident went to aVdoctor,■' end was-] told that lie wqnl<Pnave to lose 'his: fingfi jr from the" fop:of the nail. The man. knowing how" he would get on in regard. to compensation, asked , the doctor to take.'l the whole? Joint, otherwise he would not get compensation. The "position was most unsatisfactory. ■■■■■.<■;•■■■ •-• .'.,-'..,-■ The Minister said he would go carefully into-this matter. The schedule referred to Shad been put in to reduce the ' legal costs. .-■ If the-insurance-companies were doing their best to make use of any flaw in the .jAct, lie. would take steps to , have the (Act made-so clear that there : oould be lid, such action, and to assure that there would in future be no possibility of their wriggling out- of what the Legislature intended they should do, 1 Union \v. Labour Department. > The union's old difference with the Labour Department was then raised by Mr. [Moriarty. -For some time past the union /has preferred to do its own work in regard to breaches of awards, etc., and facilities were sought to enable tho union • to do the , work independent of the De(partment. Mr. Moriarty took the opportunity of'thanking Mr. T. M. Wilford, .M.P., for the action he took in attacking fthe Labour -Department on tho floor o? ■ '■ tho Houselii'st. session. He was. only .'sorry I the matter had come on at 4 ; a.m. . ;. ! Tho Minister:'. It , would have made no difference if it had come on at i p.m. 1 ' Mr. Moriarty proceeded to deal with the old grievances which have already ibeen ventilated in the press, but. was ( interrupted by the Minister. ■ • . ■ ' Mr. Millar said he had no time to spare to allow the speaker to kp into the old. ca.ses- again.. These were disposed of as /ar as he was concerned. If Mr. iMoriarty had any new charges against the Labour Department he ; would be pleased to listen to'him. '. ■ .' \ 'l-j Mr. Moriarty said ;the Minister .had to-■; lied on his officers'for his reports in the past. Since then tho union had said it could not trust the officers of the Dei.partment until it got justice.. He (the epeaker) asked only one thing—"Justice." 'Since Mr. Le Cren had come back from Diniedin, he had come to him (the speaker) in the spirit in which he thought the inspectors should work. Them might bo something wrong. "Well, let it be known, and tho secretary would go out and get it seen to. - All ho asked the Minister now was to ask Mr. Le Cren to supply a report as to the state in which : he found the factories when he came ■here. On his own words he had found some of them in an unsatisfactory con.difcion. Other.officers of the Department Jhad reported that they were all that was J required. I '-■ "Absolutely Trapped." • "Your officers have absolutely trapped yon as well as the House," added Mr. Moriarty with heat, referring to it Hawke's Bay case. However, • he continued, "the Minister said he v;ould take ■ the officers' word before his (the speaker's), therefore he would, have to find fresh ground." -, Trouble, he said,' had arisen'. in regard to tho union carrying out its work itself independent of tho Department. He had made applications for change of venue in a certain case- to transfer it from Wanpanui to Wellington, and the magistrate granted the application. Although the Arbitration Act said cases could bo tried in Wellington, the union'had to travel to various parts of the- district, to carry on cases. They maintained that they should hayo the right to havo cases heard in Wellington, or that the Act should be amended so .that all their costs would bo paid in the event of their being successful in carrying their cases through.; It was impossible for the union' to look to the Labour Department to,do the work again. That would be practically saying to tho employers in the fiirnituro trade: "Do what yon like with the union." As things stood, there was one. continuous fight going to take place between the Department and , tho union. Tho position had become very acute indeed, and there was a cry from one end of the Dominion to the other. They asked for an assurance from tho Minister, that tho Arbitration Act would not bo over-ridden by other Acts. The Same Old Feud. The Minister said ho was sorry that the same old'fend still existed between Mr. Morinrty and the Labour Department. "I may bo perfectly candid, ho added; "I am not goiiig to niter the Act '.o suit your union." The Department was prepared to do the same for tho Fiiriiiiure Workers' as it was for any other iliioii. That-had been proved. Perhaps be lid not get the correspondence from one ;nil of Ki'.w Zealand to the other as Mr.

Moriarty did, but ho knocked about New Zealand a good deal, and met a'large number of Labour men. The Furniture AVorkcrs' Union was the only union that had ever made application that the Act should be amended to allow the union lo take its cases, because it had not confidence in the Department. Jlr. Moriarty: Have they complained about the Department? The Minister: Certainly! Neither you nor I ,uor any other person could S'vo absolute satisfaction.' Mr. Moriarty: You could give justice, though. ' ' , ■ The Minister: There has never .been anything but justice. As far as-I am concerned 1 don't care if the Department is thrown out altogether Mr. Moriarty: It would be better. Tho Minister replied that if the Labour unions of' New Zealand said' they did not want tho Labour Department- he .won l<l bring in a Bill to do away with it. It the Department was -not: doing-Mtf; work the sooner it was done away ."Avitb . the better for everyone. This, howeyer, must be left to the unions of New...' : .&a and. As long as the Department was titers he had to stand by his officers unless something was proved against them. Mr. Moriarty: You. won't., give us a chance. You said we only wanted satisfaction to dismiss a man.. A heated exchange look place at tnis stage apropos of a private conversation which took place between the Minister and Mr. Moriarty during last f^ 10 . 11 . Implying to Mr. Moriarty s last, interjection thV Minister said: "Where.did .l say that?" to which- Mr.. Moriarty rcptfed "In the corridor" at Parliament Buildings ■ • • Tho Vrimo , Mim ? t ? l ; font you out to me and said: 'You told someone that you were -going ,to get a man shifted,' and I replied- that- jou listened to tittle-tattle on the streets. Mr. Moriarty: Didn't you _ shift • tho inspector siaca? ' . ~ , The Minister: I promoted him.to the head of a district, and he absolute satisfaction to both .sides. That :is"the position as far as I am-concerned. Where you have a legitimate:;case wo will take it up. If you are not satisfied you can take it yourselves. ■Mr. Moriarty: Will you. give us permission to bring a Wangamu case down 'SSr: No, I won't. The Act is a le d isn't amended it's going-to be. Instead of one big district it is going to be cut. up into.four or fire district?, and the cases .will .be taken in each centre. . If you are going to.drag a man down from Taihapo or anywhere else for a ss. fine I will be no Pi Mr. Moriarty: You judge the case by the amount of the penalty. There was never a-case, of-a. ss. penalty. The Minister: I am talking of the principle. The case is always tried ,at i the place Where the alleged breach is committed. You want the case taken to a place where evidence would have to bo brought from.a distance. He was not going to have men dragged all over the Yes! Gi« us tlle cost of conducting the case. . The Minister:-The Department is ready to conduct tho case. Can't Trust the Department. Mr. Moriarty: Wβ can't trust the Department. !■'■ ..-■'- The Minister: That is what you say.: I say I don't believe that, and the other workers don't believe it. . I am not going;to alter the Act to suit your - At this juncture Mr. Moriarty proceeded to Tead an . article froin . a Labour paper whereupon tho Minister interrupted by saying that lie knew too much about the papers. He was not going to ba dictated .to,, nor was he ■responsible to any newspaper editor in Neif. Zealand. He would be responsible for all , he-did on the floor of the N House. He did not want any paper to. run any .Department of his. Newspapers could howl from now .until the -Last.-Trumpet sounded,, but.it would not shift him. They could not shift him one iota unless he thought it 'right. .The; officers'of-the Department, the added, had-a. good name j throughout the Dominion —- Mr. Moriarty:-.Yes—from the employers. The Minister: If tho- next conference ',ca?ries jftrcsdlutjori- asking for-the abolition of' the Labour Deportment, • I will be. the man to urge the repeal of the Act, Mr. Moriarty :■ You know Hhere is no fear "of that. The union secretaries will ■not■ speak-out liko.men; too often they 'a're ; looking for- Government jobs. When our. business was on the floor of the : House, two., of ■ tho union secreitaries came, and said, to, me: "You are ■ an ' absolute fool to fight the Government. You have lost all j chance of a Government position. I •said "Is that what you are looking for?" and they-said "Yes," they vexe not going to be union secretaries all their lives. _ i The Minister: There is such .a. feud •between you and the Labour .Department that.l am not going to listen to you. You can put your case bsfore the Department, and if they don't take the case you can do it. ■ ' ■ ■ ■ Mr. Moriarty: And pay . through the 'nose for it. ' ... ~ . , Mr. Field: If a conviction is obtained after the Labour Department has refused to take a case up, isn't that an indication that the Labour Department was wrong? The Minister: There has been one case _—, -Mr. Millar was proceeding to say that a business man told him a certain thing when Jfr. Moriarty interrupted, saying'that this was a deliberate 'untruth.* • ■ ' > ' '?" ■ •-~ .•The Minister: Do you mean to say. I m not speaking the truth? . Mr. Moriarty: I mean you should say your officers told you. After some further discussion, the Minister said he had given his reply, and it was not worth pursuing the matter iurther. . , .. ..- No 111-Fesling. Mr. Field hoped that there wa-s no illfeeling in the matter. , ' •The Minister-said there was no lll■feelinß. Mr. ' 'Moriarty had been a Straightforward, outspoken man in everything. Mr.'Moriarty :'■ Is that not the cause of the whole trouble? If I had liked to have been a cur and to have sold my union this trouble would not have occurred. Mr. Millar said he was somewhat surprised at tho' attitude taken by Mr. Mr! Jforiarty: What attitude—being straightforward and paying for it? The attitude of being up against the Government and dead ■ against the Department? The Minister: You have the press and ■the Labour papers to forward your case. Mr. Moriarty: The Labour people have condemned us for being too straightforward—you know-that. After some further valedictory remarks the deputation withdrew;.