A LIVELY DEBATE.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 1034, 25 January 1911, Page 7

A LIVELY DEBATE.

HOSPITAL LIGHTING QUESTION, PERSONNEL OF A COMMITTEEALLEGATIONS OF " PACKING " AND "BIAS." . : For about ten minutes yesterday aft-ei* noon the temperaturo'of the Wellington' Hospital Board room was dangerously ; nepr boiling point. At times it actually, sizzled.' Decision by the board uponthe knotty question of gas v. electricity as. a lighting and heating medium is, as everyono hiows, still very much--i.ii-tho air. -At the board's meeting yesterday it was stated that the Lighting Committee was investigating the question, and was haying further information procured. "Dp till the moment when this statement was made, members had. been fairly tranquil. It was Mr. B. R. Gardiner, of Levin, who applied the! match to the fire. He rose to his feet-' and expressed tho opinion that the Lighting Committee should be added to. Ho objected to the preponderance of the City Council's interest on the committee. "The whole of the fcity Councillors on this board are members of the committee," observed Mr. David Robertsons "Mr. Robertson is wrong—lie is always wrong," interjected Mr. J; E; 'Fits-' gerald, with some warn;£h. ' . - A City Councillor and the Press. Mr. Gardiner then moved that Messrs.' J. Godber'and J. W. M'Ewen be added' to the committee. It was about time,', he said, emphatically, that tho constitution of .tho-committee was altered to-' some extent. "I don't wish to go the length of saying that certain members' are biased either one way or the other,"; he said, "but when we find those mem-i bers—l name Mr. Fitzgerald, for one— I writing to the press in support of their! side of the case, and getting! officials of the . council ' to do l the same, then I say that it. is most im-i proper." Continuing, Mr. Gardiner said] that ho disapproved all along of . the I board's-action in appointing three mem-'-bers of the City Council to the Lidit-. ing Committee after that committee had j been at work for some time. "How can! competitors expect justice from such ai body?" ho. asked, indignantly. It wasl absolutely wrong, ho said, that public! bodies should be placcd in such a pqsi-< tion. The'committee would be materi-' ally strengthened by the addition of the gentlemen he had named. "Put me on the committee too," suggested Mr. Robertson. His name was' accordingly added to the list. Mostly Personal. Mr. A. H. Hindmarsh led off with, as; attack on Mr, Robertson. "Person-I ally," ho began, "I think it a pity that' Mr. Fitzgerald should have committed himself by writing to the press! Witlu the ot-her councillors .1 have no fault to find. I take Mr. Robertson's; in- ' terjections'as a slur upon the commit-i tee. Ho has a low opinion pf mankind,: and cannot give them credit for try- 1 ing to do fairly. Mr. Robertson ap- v parently judges others by himself. Il hope Mr. Robertson will not be placed! on the' committee. He doesn't contri-j bute anything solid at the debates or this board, and whatever he does say' is absolutely Worthless." At this juncture, Mr. Hindmarsh,; who was evidently workyig himself up to boiling point, was interrupted by„ Mr.'Godber. "I think," said the latter* appealing to the chair,. "that these' personalities should not be allowed."! "I am objecting "tduMr. Robertson! being placed on the'eoinmittee, and I! am perfectly in order in giving reasons' for my objection," said Mr. Hindmarsh. The chairman said that Mr. Hindmarsh was at liberty to. justify his objection, bufc that there was no necessity, to labour the point. . Mr. Fitzgerald Regrets Nothing. Mr. Hindmarsh thereupon. resumed his seat, and Mr. Fitzgerald took 'the floor, and with tile preliminary observation that he didn't attach much imports ance to Mr. Gardiner's remarks, as they., were not worth much in .his estimation,; he went on to combat the that certain members who .'had been aj>-; pointed to the committee in.tho public interest had been biased. Mr. Gardiner had said that ho had no right to seek information from officers of the. couucil with the object of writing to the press. With Councillor Smith, lie had been asked, by the Wellington City Council to make certain to the Hospital Board. He felt convinced that if these, were-heeded a large sum of - money; would be saved to the board. Personally, ho would be glad to see Sir. .Robertson on tho committee, for.if he ere 1 ., ho might bo converted in his opinions* assuming the . possibility of .that gentleman allowing himself to be convinced upon any question. The speaker was proceedine to argue the merits, of electricity for lighting and heating when Iho was pulled up by the chair-' man. . : "ThatJis not the question before us, said Mr. Aitken. Mr. Fitzgerald, proceeding, remarked: that he did not regret his action -in writing to the press. Mr. G. London; had also written to the press, and was thought none the less or for doing so. "Unconscious Bias." Mr. Godber regretted that a majority. of the Lighting Committee were members of the City Council. There-was such a thing as unconscious bias, and ho instanced Mr. Fitzgerald as an illus-i ■tration. . "Can knowledge of the subject be callcd 'unconscious bias' ?" asked MrFitzgerald. ' "I was unconsciously placed on the committee," complained Mr. John Smith. "I didn't want to act on~.it." Continuing, the speaker deprecated such', references as had been made to men who had serve'd-tho interests of tho.ratepayers, and held their confidence, for the last twenty-live years. It was . moat unfair. Mr.' M'Laren asked what "unconscious bias" had to do with thf question. The last word rested with tha board as .a whole. "Packed With City Councillors," Mr. Robertson said that the committee was packed with City Councillors,, and .that was why he desired to be made a member. Ho wondered if tho committee had approached tlio question in a practical way, as ho had done by personally inspecting the hospital building and noting tho main points to be , considered.

Mr. R. C. Kirk, chairman of the Hospital Committee, said that tho committee which had originally boen constituted had gono very fully into the question: of heating and lighting. Tho board, in its wisdom, had then added to it. He himself doubted the wisdom of appointing Councillors Fitzgerald and Smith to the committee, in view of tli« circumstance that these two gentlemen liad been asked by the council to make certain representations to tho board. Ho would say, however, that everything that had been done by tho committee had been perfectly fair and above board—there were three council' members and three non-council.members on the committee —3nd had ho noticed anything in the course of its deliberations to which exception could havo been taken he would at once havo protested. Ho' would say distinctly that tho committeo had not been dominated by tho City Council'in this matter. Mr. Gardiner's motion was tlien put, aud rejected' by seven votes to sis. ■