THE GAMING BILL.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 977, 18 November 1910, Page 6

THE GAMING BILL.

j...': ; ?. ■ v ....-• .. I AMENDED BY LEGISLATIVE COUNCII ). trim BOOKMAKER. ■ ; THE NUMBER OF RACING DAYS. I'-. COMMISSION CLAUSE SAVED B\ ;, .;.,'■' v ; ONE VdTE. , .. :, [ ■ ' . ~- The Gaming' Amendment Bill was pul :" . .through its Committee stage in tho Legis- : lative. Council yesterday, and emerged : with; a considerable number of amend--1 ■". (ments. An .amendment was. introduced by, the ' [Attorney-General to. male the Act. come ; ' into ioperation on January 31 next. Unjderthe Bill as it stood, the clause dealing with the duration of race- meetings >rould have to come into force .at"once. ; -Penalties for Street Betting, , A number of alterations were made in Clause 2, which sets out tho penalties for street betting. The object of tho alterations,' tho Attorney-General explained, iwas to spread thoinot-as widely as!posBible; The clause had undergone -considerable alteration in" tho House o'f Eeipresentatives, and in order that the jchanges should not defeat the whole puriposoof the clause more alterations were jrequired to give the clause intelligent taieaning and shape. If the clause were . 'allowed:to stand as it appeared in the Bill jthe position of the law would be even jwbrse than it is now. 2 of the Mause was, deleted, and tho'following new Sum-clauses were inserted:— I (3.) Every bookmaker who bets in any street, or on any racecourse, or in any Ipublic place as defined by. Section 2 of the ■principal.'Act; or within' the-' 'view or hearing of any person in or on any such street, ■ racecoursci or public place, cominitsan offence, and is liable on summary conviction to a fine not less than twenty •pounds, aiid not exceeding one- hundred ■ pounds for a first offence, and to tho liko fin* or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding three months' for a "second or any subsequent, offence..'against.this section, whether of the same or of a different iind. '■ ■■'■ i .-. ' ;' •'-.' .■■:': ; (1.) In this section the term, "betting" ■-..'., and "bet" include,the.act of any/person in betting, wager jag, offering, or agreeing to bet or wager, paying, receiving, or fettling .any bet or ; wager, or offering or ■agrceing'to'. nay, receive,'or settle any bet- . [or wager, whether, on his own, behalf or ; - 'on behalf of any other, person; ' .-■' •'• ' . (5.) In this section the term "street" nieans—(a) Any ' public road, street, ,or : ithoroughfare, and-any. road, street, "lane, footway, or passage,'whether a. thoroughfare or'not, and whether public'prinot; and (b). any enclosed or unenclosed land '(not being a building or a racecourse on . which a race meeting is being held) in any city or borough., , Paltering With the Question. : •_Several speakers,expressed regret that the Bill did not go further and prevent bookmakers operations altogether Tho'Hon: Geo. Jones (Otago) eaid "it was merely paltering with the question." 'Mr. Jones pointed out that the section .would allow betting-to go on in private offices. - ■' . , Dr. Findlay said that this was as far as they could go, short of trying to stop' ; '- ■' .betting altogether; ■' , - ■ •. • ; The- Hon. C. Mr Luke remarked that , (under the section a bookmaker could still carry on his profession and go into offices, jnatang' bets with young neonle, as had oeen done for years : past. He was ,, told . . .that the bookmakers.were highly-amused at Parliament's action in this matter, ,and were saying, that they would be able to ply their business as successfully as ; over, except on ~'.the racecourses. He iWould like to -krioj-..whether it would ,be; {possible' for a" bookmaker, under .the* fiiisa of- a commission agent, to carry, on usiness in an office.' -. "No,,.he would,riot" replied the.Attor-ney-General, who added that as far as he knew, there was no legal objection to.a (jookmaker going into an omesandmating u bet there. If, however, he. was .using, a building: for thb purpose of making α-bot, then'it became.a common gaming house at once,' . "•' ■ -..-".' The Hon. W. C. Smith,-said ho was sorry that the law could,. not go any further. Quito recently he had been in an office, where he saw. a bookmaker bullying a small boy to make a bet, and believed that he got money : from the lad .'.in the end. ■ , Dr. Findlay raid'it must be conceded ihat, it was somewhat curious- that in an " intelligent democracy.like.this.the officers of the law could pounce unon an old lady •telling.fortunes to prison, while if a man were carrying on work such as had -just been, described, -he could do sO'ivith impunity, so long as ho avoid'ed conflict with certain provisions of the law.. . ;■ Bookmakers and ■ Racecourses;'' In Clause i, which deals, with,the power !of racing clubs to prevent bookmakers from' plying .their, calling on'racecourses, the .Attorney-General moved to strike out Sub-Clause"2 as'printed; and'add the'fol-' lowing sulj-clauses :—, \ (3) In this section the term 'license" means a license to use 'the totalisator under the principal Act or a; license' '.granted under the' Race Meetings' Act, . (4) Any person who, on. any .racecourse, acts in breach of Section. 2 of'this Act, and who, after 1 having been warned by any agent or servant of the racing club laving the use or control o£ that racecourse,. or .. by; any constable, does nui. ■desist from so acting, may bo.forthwith removed from the racecourse by any such agent or" servant, or by any constable. (5) Any person so removed shall not on the day of such removal re-enter tho racecourse, and if he does.so re-enter, he may, without warrant, bo arrested by any constable and taken before a magistrate or any two justices, and. shall be liable on summary conviction to a finq not exceeding fifty pounds, or to imprisonment for a period not exceeding one month. "The Commission." The Hon. J. KigV moved an amendment, to Clause 5,. to test the feeling of the Committee- in regard to the appointment, of tho commission. We had had experience of commissioners as managers of the railways', said Mr. Eigg, and they had. not been a success. He was sur- . prised'that the Government should put forward such a proposal. If we passed the' commission .it would bo the metropolitan clubs who would control the permits., and .distribute the ' patronage. The whole power and control- of racing was thrown into the hands of the metropolitan' clubs. ■'■~'■ ' ", The Attorney-General said that if ' wo got a commission which answered the purpose of a legal tribunal it would be much better than the- present ro.ugh-and-Teady. system. If the commission was properly selected it would answer" its purpose. He asked the Council to pass theclause on the assumption that tho best men would be selected.' ' The Hon. J. D. Ormond (Hawke'o •Bay) said that under the Bill tho position would be most invidious and diffioult. A great deal would, depend on tho men chosen to form tho commission The .Hon. ■ J. ■E. Jenkinson (Wellington) could not see why tho Government had inserted the clause in regard to the commission. ' There had been little or no complaint in tho past, but there might be all sorts of abuses under the commis'fhe Hon 0. " SamueUTaranaki) agreed with Mr. Rigg, and thought, tho clause might very well be omitted altogether. The Attorney-General said a,properly selected commission could do very much better than a busy Minister. ■ : "' . A Close Division. On a division being taken, Mr. Bigg's . amendment, was lost, by l-t'.to 13. The voting was:— Against tho amendment: Dr. Findlay, Paul; Cajit: Tucker, W. C. Smith, G. JV Smith, Balder, Dr. Collins, Stevens, Longhnan, Sir Geo. Jl'Lean, Ormond, Johnston; Anstey, .Wigram; For. the amendment: Macdbnald, Cal!an, Luke, Kigg, Barr, Jenkinson, Jones, Major Harris, Thompson, Al'Gowan, Mills, . Sinclair,; Samuel. • .. ... An amendment was moved by Mr. Samuel to strike out certain, words, for the purpose, of retaining , tho present ■number of totalisator licenses. . "•

Several speakers" expressed the opinio: that the number of racing days was toi largo in New Zealand at present. The Attornej;-General said ho believe( the people .'were.disposed ,tb redueo th< number.-of. racing- days. ■< • ' : ■ Tho Hon." Mr. .'Samuel said ho rccog niscd" that" he was "iiv a minority, aftei tho discussion, and asked leave to with draw tho amendment. This was granted Preference to County Clubs Deleted. . The Attorney-General, moved to strik< out the sub-clauso which provides thai in determining the clubs to which total isator licenses shall bo granted, prefer' enco shall be given to those clubs whicl; nse the totalisator at one meeting onlj in any year. This clause, said Dr. Findlay, tied the hands of the commission who, it was urged, should not be bound by a rule of this character. Tho Hon. J."Kigg 'moved, to modify the clauso by making it, apply to clubs which use the totalisator on : ' ono day in the year only. 7A-priorvamendment was moved by the Hon.' G. J. SmitK.'-to' strike out tho words "preference shall be given to" and insert "full consideration shall be given to the claims of those clubs which uso the totalisator," etc., ' After 'considerable discussion on the various amendments, the Attorney-Gen-eral secured the deletion' of the clause, tho voting being: 17—10. The division list was: For the retention of the clauso: Luke, Bigg, Paul, Barr, Jones, Capt. Tucker, W. C. Smith, G. J. Smith, Anstey, Sin- .-:" :.■■; ■■■ ;., 4 . Against' the retention" of the.'clauso: Dr. Findlay, Jenkiris'ori, Beehan. Gilmer, Sir M. O'Rorke, Baldey, Dr. Collins, Stevens, Loughnan. Sir G. M'Lean. Ormond, Johnston, Major Harris, Thompson, Wigram, M'Gowan, Samuel. The Number of Races. The Hon., 0.. Samuel moved to alter Sub-clause 2 of Clause 6 60 as to permit of the number of races to be run on any one day being increased from seven to eight. Tho Hon. G. J. Smith (Canterbury) thought it "would bo better to keep to The Hon.'J. T. Paul (Otago) said that there was a decided opinion. that ■ there was too much racing in New Zealand. They could not say-whether racehorso owners had made money from racing, but in a period covering ten years one owner had won .£51,000, another and another £41,000... By limiting tho races to seven he thought they'would bo carrying out the wishes of* tho people. He was not opposed to racing,' but .he was opposed to the gambling that was connected with it. Ho'believed seven races was sufficient. The Hon. W. Beehan ' (Auckland) thought seven races was enough. If Mr. Samuel' would make his motion read seven races in winter.■arid'eight'in'summer he would havo a-better chance'with it. Mr. Luke (Wellington)-.said ho had been ,hopeful that tho..number would be reduced to six.' He .would', support the clause. '. ■-,- > •■•" ■ "-.,.. . Losses of Racing Men; The" Hon. Geo! .M'Lean' (Otago), referring' to the profits', of racing, remarked that there was no man in this country that could travel horses and, run them under .£3OO, a year each. Ho had never known, any; man in tho .'Dominion who made : money ..by '■ racing...; Ho' 'had had to give it up because he. cquldjnot afford it.. Eight races, in-his opinion, was not too many. :...., .. , :. ~ ~ Tho Hon. J. D. Ormond (Hawke'sßay) said that never in, any one .'-year had ho paid expenses, and he'did not know any ono owner who had. Tho little club depended on the totalisator receipts entirely, and the, extra race would enable them to carry:on,the sport .in. their districts: \ All those who voted" to reduce tho number'of races would do so-against the interests: of 'the. smaller' clubs'. He did' not think.',it.'.was any.rgreat thing to concede and it.would help those who cnjoved the sport. ... .; ■'-■■ /U'.-',' The Hon. J. Eigg (Wolliu'gtpn) said it was', true that horse owners, sacrificed a good.deal for the sakd,'of th'ev'sport.' He would suggest that they should lose a little,.more and send their, horses further afield, and assist.tho smaller.,clubs. Despite the money they, spent breeding and training their horses, the'horses were run by the..' jockeys and the "trainers. The horses were of,ten ''pulled/' and the owners were swindled in spifb" of every precaution. However, he congratulated tho leading racing men . on' "what they had dono to. purify the sport, which was clean as compared with racing .which was not under .the control of tho Racing Conference. He favoured increasing tho number of races from seven to eight,., D>. Findlay's Views. .The'Attorney-General., said he was of opinion that- if;-six; races-,were sufficient for. Victoria,'we'should not/jrequiro eight. If they had..seven:,really..,,weji-conducted rices, that satisfy tlie r appetite, of any sportsman. '>■'■' ",'■'.. ■.'. :-' ?Mr.- Luke. suggested that the mover of the motion should withdraw it, and havo seven races. Otherwise,' the, Council might reduce it to six;- ■ • "Tho Hon. Mr. Samuerdid not see it in this light. . Tho Hon. Sir Geo. M'Lean said it was iuvpossiblo to. run-races at intervals of half'an ,hour, as' the. Attorney-General had suggested.- ■ This' had; been tried, and had failed. :...„.- .The Hon. J..8. Callan" (Otago) thought there should'be eight races,' Close Voting. On a division, Mr. Samuel's amendment was agreed to by' 13 to 12.. The voting was :— For the amendment—Callan, Rigg, Je'nkinson, Stevens, . Loughnan, Sir Geo. M'Lean, Ormond, Kelly,'iThorapson, Wigram,'M'Gowan,'Sinclair, and; Samuel. Against , the amendment—Dr. Findlay, Luke, Paul, Barr, Jones; Beehan, W. C. Smith, G'.'J/Smith, Baldey, Dr. Collins, Anstey, and Major Harris. " Penalty for Breaches. The following new. sub-clause'was added at the instance of tho Attorney-General :— If at any race meeting any. race is run in breach, of this section, every member, officer, agent, or servant of the racing club having control, of that race meeting shall, unless ho proves that ho was pot a consenting party to that brcacu, be' guilty of an offence punishable .on summary conviction by a fine not exceeding fifty pounds. ... Tho provision that any person who makes any bet with any other porson who is under 21 years of age shall be -guilty, of an offence, and bo liable to a fine not exceeding .£SO, was struck out. . Tho Attorney-General explained that this was already tho law. ', Concerning the Totalisator. '.. The Attorney-General moved' the following in substitution of Suli-Section 1 and of Clause 6 arid its proviso, in order to give effect to the restrictions- that would be mado by the commission, and to provide the number of days on which tho totalisator might be used at the different' meetings referred to. The new clause, said Dr. Findlay, would give hotter effect to tho desires of the Houso of Representatives than tho clauses in- "the Bill ■ — (1) Every license issued by tho Minister of Internal Affairs under section" fifty of tlio! principal Act in. respect of any year after the thirty-first of July, nineteen hundred and eleven, shall be issued in respect of a single race meeting, and shall specify the number of days on which the totalisator may bo used at that meeting.. . (2) Tho aggregate number of days on which the totalisator is so authorised to lie used 1 throughout New Zealand in any year after'the thirty-first day of July, nineteen hundred, and eleven, shall not exceed two hundred and fifty. .. (3) The number, of days on which the totalisator is so authorised to be used at any one race meeting shall not exceed (4)A race meoting. at which,the totalisator is so authorised to be used on four days shall.not extend over a longer period than eight consecutive, days, and n race meeting, at. whiqh..."the', totalisator is so authorised to bo used-on-threo days shall not extend over a longer, period than six consecutive days, and a.rnce meeting at which the totalisator'is so authorised to bo used on two days shall not extend over a longer period than four consecutive days; and on the expiry of any such maximum period the license to uso the-totalisator 6hall lapse: Provided that -when at any race meeting a racing club is compelled' by inclement weather or any extraordinary circumstance "_to postpone any racing to a later day it snail be lawful for the club to extend that race meeting over such longer period,as is so rendered necessary.

(5) The Gqvcrnor-in-Council may mak regulations as to the grant.of such'li conses and as to the conditions oa whicl they may be issued. (6) Iu this- section tlie term "year' nieans a year commencing on the first da; of August. (7) Paragraph (a) of section fifty of tin principal Act and section fifty-one of'tha Act are hereby repealed. The new elauso was agreed • to.. Betting in Hotels. The Hon. G. J. Smith mo\-cd to.maki the' provisions of Section 2, which deal' with street-betting, apply to all licensee premises as defined by the Licpusin- , 190S, the idea being to prevent bettinf ill hotels. ■Mr. Barr (Otago) said ho knew fron personal observation that a good deal of betting *veut on in hotels, and tht licensees were quite powerless to deal witli it. The remedy such as proposed by the Hon.' Mr. Smith was; he thought a .'good one. ' Mr. Paul (Otago) said he saw no reason why the clauso should ..not be included. It would safeguard the hotolkeepers' and help them in a difficult position. The Hon. J. E. Jenkinson (Wellington) said a greater enrss ■ than betting in hotels was -betting in billiard ' 'rooms. This would have. to. be stopped some time, and he hoped the Government would seo if they could not discourage it. Several other speakers urged the necessity of some such clauso as moved by Mr. Smith. , •'The-Hon. Mr. Smith subsequently withdrew his amendment, and- the At-torney-General moved an addition to the clauso which deals with the penalty for street betting (and which provides that it shall be illegal for bookmakers to bet in any street, racecourse, etc.), so as to include any licensed premises within tho meaning of; tho Licensing Act, 1008, in this section. ' Tho Bill was reported with amendments and .was', .put through its final stages and passed.