MR. HIDE'S CHARGES.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 946, 13 October 1910, Page 5

MR. HIDE'S CHARGES.

AMAZING DEVELOPMENT. THE PREMIER'S LATEST .: *;>■ NOW FAYOURS INQUIRY BY TWO ':.;<; f JUDGES...-' ; .■ ; THE ALLEGATIONS DEFINED. There was 'quite a flutter in..political circles: yesterday on account of tho fact that- Mr. Hine, M.P.-.for Stratford, was attending' before the Special Parliamentary Committee, with; the object of outlining/ his■; charges .against, certain, ineni<bers and" ex-members, of;.the Legislature in'connection with, the sale of various properties: -to the State..;' Hanan .(Ihyefcargill), the; chairman of tho.Committ'ee,.>vas present, as / also'were; the following "members: The' = Prime Minister (Sir Joseph; Ward)', Mr. Massey (Leader of the.Opposition),-the Hon. J.. A; Millar, Mr. }J, .Allen-'(Bruce^;Mr; ;;"«*.*' Fraser (Wakatipu);*-,Mr. A.' M. ; Myera' (Auckland .East),'Mr.''..T. and- Mr.' V. Reed!: (Bay of islands);.,; Mr! Hirieformnlated/sik charges,; in . which two. sitting members and two ex-membere of the Legislature. are involved, .'besides indicatthat; lie. wished leave', to bring, any, further'charges, during the inquiry; As will.be seen from -the report of tie proceedings; ; the. Premier lias given notice to.niove.that.the.charges be now referred .to'"a commission- of "two judges of the Supreme Court. : .' This change of fronton the part of the Premier was, -later, the subject of much, lively discussion in the lobbies among members of his.party. , ■:.■-..,'■ ■;: ■'•' ; The Allegations.; ; ::.'■;. '. When; ithe representatives' of the press were admitted, 1 Mr.";Hine ■■'. read', out. a statement embodying' his oharges, which .were- as;under.:—...;/■;; .;' : ; : '■:••'■.■■■ ; 1. ..That Charles .Edwin Major, in or "■about the, year, 1904, whilea. member/; ,;; of Parliament, conducted' the sale to- .'; :.the■.Government- of a. property : of .'.;■ V.Frederick Bayly at Toko and received : '. ; ;:from the'said Frederick'Baylya com- '-"'.■ v.mission or sum of"money; for'sodoing. .',; Edwin :Major.. and •-, -Walter Symes;'- of one. of liem, inor .(/about the-year; 1905, while/both mem- ;! bers r of conducted _the. sale ■.'■ r toithe-'Government ;of: a.property ..of :''Alfred-ißayly,'at- .Toko; ; and .received ■'■-;' '•;•-..from.the.said.Alfred Bayly,a cornmis--.;. ,'sion:6f;'sum. of money, which, the said . :V Charles: iEdwiri,. Major -. and;: Walter:', j-Symes'.divided'.- , ":'■. : i;:" ; ."- ! ..-'-'.- : --- ; --i .■•■■■ :-■ ■■■'.: <*

■■■A'i'. That the;; said WalterSymes, in'oir v about: the .year .1908, and again in !.;1908, 'while a member of 'Parliament,. ;V charged and:received from a number of ■V, .West;. Coast: lessees :of Native 'lands :':,.commissions ori.sums' of money, - for: ;. fpreparingand conducting petitions, in ; .Parliament on. their .behalf.',.:; V . -~. ■"■ : :: ■ i:. the,''said ■■ Walter ; Symes,. m, the year 1905; while a Parliumentar'y ''eleotion: was presently;!in prospect in -,-which; the. said; Walter; Symes intend- ; ( v; ed.-to become, arid, subsequently be-■-,came,-a: candidate,>; and: being then, factually ,a . member''of■. Parliament,', ; 0 did i threaten ■■ or, cause, to ' be: threat-. ::.ened : ascertain ;'newspaper.; that,-: he; ■ v-use: hislinflpence ;as ,a mem-' ,;ber of:Parliament;to'prevent.Govern- ■. 'ment■'.-• advertisements ; from -.;• being' ■•.- given to, the. said newspaper unless he ' hreceived-the support of or was treated. , ;• to y his .own' satisfaction by.'the, said ',:newspap'er '"during: ,the ■ : said; {election' ■-contest.".'.-".'.■;■•-' : - ; v;', : ; : ■*::'<: .'/?;;'.■' ■-"■'■■■'■-■■ /: ■■'.

;':5.-That::ThomasiKennedy. Mncdon-, ■aid, i-in 1 or. -about"' the.' year.'' 1901, ■ and subsequent years,' while,:'a" member of the -^Legislative; Council) either alone or : in corij unction irith > his then part- ; ner-' (a.; land agent) ,'cbriduc'M I 'the sale to, the Government: of -the property of one John .Motley Leigh at Nainai "and the properties -iof.: other persons, and received from the said John';Mbt:ley' Leigh'. , and- the ;vendofs v of '■ such other properties:commissions.or;other : sums of -.. money, or alternatively the said Thomas Kennedy Macdonald and his said partrier.received the said,commissions, or other sums-arid, divided .the same,;., -.?:'i'i■;'/■•■;v■..■■■■ ; vi- : .;,' :' -''.,

:; ; ;. 6."-That Henare.vKaihau,- in or ..about the'year 1906;;JwnUe : a ~member; of ■Parliament, conducted the-sale to■ the ■ Government of a -portion ,:of the Tβ Akau: Block: ancl : ;..received . from. the vendors a- commission or .other sum, ;bf; : money,.: /; ,;■ '•■.yr'y■':].• ii;: ; . ,;'••'■,■•:;-: -;■■

: ''Attached:'to■;the charges: was the fol r ; lowing,.statement:—''There are other' njattefs/ oa which I : have.certain '.information;., but■ it;vis•.not easy tosin4uce:persons-to giye..full^details,• or> to, ; come■ forward and give , , evidenced .Under the , , circumstances X'&6 not think,it fair •Oγ. , .proper to. make any specific allegations at present regarding :any such matters, ibiit 1 1 make this , statement to . preserve l my right to. ask. leave, should , I think : it;proper ]■.■. to make; further specific; allegations at a : later stage, of: the. ' -v^y\' \- '':'■■ ': ■-":< :• ':,;; frime . Minister Wants a: Royal '; / ;-^' : Commission, ;':;' ; , : -.v-' '■' '■■ ■:; ; ." : '.The^;Chttirman:. , .ThKe:'';'.are r - , '-'. , a1l - .' i , tlie , charges you'have? ; ,':. ','.•:.• ":■■'..'' .Mr. -HineiNo... I .have, one that I am, not': quite: prepared to -place , .before' the Committee. The evidence is', at present not quite sufficient ■' to . substantiate ; a charge. :;: Vlt may ; be at. a' later./period.; The: evidence ;is under-.'preparation. : : ;' •■; 'THe: Chairman:\•Will' these constitate all the charges you desire.to make, or that ijou have' in your .mind?'■; -.-■■.' Hine: With the exception of; that one. At present these;kre' alt the. charges.; '■The :;Cnairman:: Do you ..wish to'... add ■anythingl-to whatc you, have, '-said?.: ;, * ~ . -Mr. ■Hine: No.; v^ ■''■■:'" :: -i:':..?■ t. ; :The ' Chairman' • (to. the / ; Committee): Gentlemen, you - have .heard:.; the : . charges in ■, accordance : with. the request made by this Committee'to Mr;.XHine. It is for you: to 'say'--whether,,.we',.. shall proceed to-day" with !tho .question; and , , as •' to whether' counsel sh'ovild be allowed to appear, alsq'as: to'-the evidence Mr; Hine . : .••■•-■ ■:.■■.'. .Mr. ■ Massey:■ The understanding ;was that after the charges had been, formulated, Mr. Hine should hav.e tho.assistance -of counsel. I move- accordingly.' ■ :Sir Joseph -Ward: In; yiew, of; the fact that : Mr. i Hine has:now- given the.names .and tho cases which;lvwas very anxious to obtain: in' the House for a' public inquiry, I, am .of- opinion that it -would be far better -now thata commission can beset up-to refer, these' charges to two judges, of : the • Supreme Court, , as was asked by Mr. Hine..' In submitting this matter to a Committee, I had. in view the moment we got the charges to askthat this' matter should; by commission, be "referred to hvo judges of. the Supremo Court.- I.want,to. take-that course now. ■\Vliile I believo a-committee,of members is the right; body to select,' , still I recognise that it may be open to the imputation in cases of, tho kind which are now on Tecord that a committee consisting of members of Parliament may not go exhaustively into the,matter, and. may not give an unprejudiced report. . While I am of .opinion that- members of the House are the right body to inqniro into any- charges .against members personally, I should prefer that these charges be' remitted to two judges, of. the. Supreme Cowt..'.l would like to move accordingly: "That thisConimittee recommiends'they be referred, to a Eoyal" Commission consisting of two judges of the Supreme Court to investigate and report.".Thatremoves all possibility of doubt as , to legal men acting as representatives. They would bo fally entitled; to.be present before such a commission. Personally, I am anxious to see this business concluded before the end of the session. I have my own views that'this Committee might, not be able to conclude the matter before the end of the session. (Mr. Reed:' Hear,- hear.) The procedure here would bo a very long one. If wo want to get finality— and it is in' tho interests of tho country that we should—it is the best course, now that ■we have the names' and the cases', that wo should report to the House and recommend that a Royal Commission ehould be appointed to investigate and j-oport. ',; Taken by Surprise. ' Mr. Massey: It is very well known, that' I have, been in favour of this-matter being referred to two j"udgcs from tho very first. I stated in the House that I would have much more confidence in two judges than in a Parliamentary Committee. It

would ho quite impossible to keep the question of party away from a Parliamentary Committee such as this is..■ However, the/House decided otherwise. The Chairman here drew attention to the fact that the members of the press were still present. Mr. Massey: Aβ far as'l am concerned I do not object to the presence of the press. I would point but, however, that Mr. Hine had made his arrangements two or three weeks ago, aud that this, motion has been sprung upon us rather by way of a surprise.. Before , .we come to a deoision on it the Committee should have a little time to oonsider it. It is a question whethor in regard to an important motion like this notice should not be given. The committee ■' is bound to meet to-morrow morning. The motion could be taken then. :"■■:'.' . '-

Sir Joseph Ward: I have no objection whatever to that, except that personally it may be rather inconvenient for me to be , here.. • . . ; : . Mr. Massey suggested that they should meet at. 10 a.m. .-:-■' Sir Joseph Ward: I have no strong feeling about it.. What strikes me now that the names and tho cases' are stated is : that ah absolutely independent . tribunal of the Supreme • Court would be more satisfactory. We could,not set up' a commission of any sort or kind without the names. i Further Consideration Deferred. The Chairman (to.Mr. Hine):-It is understood, that these are- all 'the charges, you have except perhaps one which you aro: not prepared to formulate. Mr.. W. Fraser: He. said other charges —riot one. There's no use your-trying to. put something into his.mouth that he ■didn't .'say, . -On the motion of Sir Joseph Ward it was resolved that a copy of these charges be sent to each of the-individuals .against whom they are made. ; ,-.-'.'■ ■ The Committee then adjourned till 10 aim. .to-day.- ."■., ~ . . ■;..'I ■:'■'- '. '■ -' -" ' .i ' - : -.. THE PRIME MINISTER'S CONV TORTIONS. '■:. - :; ;\ .'.■', [To the Editor.] ■'.'■ . ■ ■ -■■, .. the Excruciating contortions of the . Prime'. Minister • on this, as on other. subjects, must bewilder the public. Two weeks ago Parliament decided, by a vote of '43 to 29, that the' Hine charges should not be heard before two- judges. To-day Sir. Joseph Ward says they, shall. Why have. a ; Parliament? Its' mandate' to. Sir Joseph is as chaff .before.. the wind. V Hearken, ye stricken people, who:, are ..suffering from "J.G. plague". to the words of wisdom which ;foll from the lips of the'mighty only two .weeks ago:; -.■-. ; . .'■■-. .'■' Hon. Mr.- Millar: ."And' now. for the first''; time*.' it', is attempted (to dispense with a Parliamenfary Committee). It is asked .that two. judges should hear a oharge -against members of' Parliament; •Is:not Parliament the;highest court in the land?., Are not/appeals made; to' Parliament from the'judges?" ■'.■'■ . '.

.Hon. T. Mackenzie: "■:[. .The history not only of this Parliament, but of the British Parliament, .has demonstrated that, in any great and important questions ..'.affecting .'the'..welfare and- honour of members of. Parliament it has been the invariable practice to trust that investigation to the highest court of the land—nambly, the Parliament of the nation/'; ■'-; '■; ■'.. /;.:; :.;■::.■■./■-■■ - ; ,-. . :- "■■

■■ Kight Hon. - Sir J. G. Ward: "1 have shown■■• that in. the Commonwealth Parliament they have, beyond all qnestion, set .up a ; special 'committee to inquire into a number', of charges made against members of-Parliament :who were not named. And I want.here to say. in connection'with about eighteen- or nineteen former cases of the kind in this country, that; in every, instance a special commit'tee: has been, appointed ■ to hear the charges made' against members of.. Parliament,,;and that procedure has never been diverted' from as far,. as . this country' is concerned." ; ■:>.':/ .-,■'•.-■■. ' . .

I The.;motion. moved byi-Mr. ; F.'-.M. :B.' Fisher to-set up a commission consist-, ing .of'two judges defeated at .'the instance, of the: Prime.'Minister and his colleagues by 42 votes to 29. , Then why the'Prime-Minister's volte face of to-dny, and- his-trampling under foot those, great, constitutional principles upon which he led his party blindly into: the lobby only two weeks: ap>?; Is it not because the attempt of the Prime Minister and his colleagues to make' , this a secret inquiry for fear a.member of the .Ministry sliould be-implicated >was' baulked by ,-a' resolu- 1 tion of the House declaring the proceedingsiof the Committee open t6 the press? On the-motion of Mr. "Anderson,- an OpV position-Jmembcr; to adniit the press w> ; the. Committee-during, the 1 taking of dence, .every , member, of ,, the.: Cabinet voted, against him,.:but ''the amendment was; carried by 39 to 31, and the attempt : to secure" a secret committee was-utterly and completely'demolished.-'' ''.'..-- ':;. .: The public will,be glad,:apart from, the constitutional aspect of' the.'matter. .'■ Mr. i.Hine-has now a .fair, chance of getting: .anVimpartial' hearing. But: let' us.:not forget;, that'.the result: was due' to that handy Httle amendment which.: admitted the"-..pTess 'to take notes;, The Governmenirs 'object' .was f thus ■- : defeated.—l ami .-.etc.,.';-.; ■'■ '"-[-.■. '.'" J. YEBRILL."