OUR NEW ARMY.

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 939, 5 October 1910, Page 8

OUR NEW ARMY.

"(DEFENCE SCHEME REVIEWED. ■-.-: | M ;^EAb-A-THIRD TIWE- IN THE '■■:■ -, ■V;H6USE^V : . • ■■; ; . ;;\ ";' : v "'^V : '/in '■' tie".'.' Housei-; of Repiiesentatives report oh vffia Defence ; : //^://':?:fßi!l ; 'came:'up'for:consideration./.'■. •■ :' u'iW^ : i } i Minister: for: Defence (Sir, Joseph House;on the. ?K^.-Ajgeiaeral which.had;been de-. ;.: 'y'iii '■ during the -.passage of ■ the WM■ !BilJ thrbugli its-Committee 'stage. The; ' /.was.. a 'clear, and /definite' system; ?i/f K'Jn'Jhe-years;to : come, with' the , : j;i : i, ; ?V; ; nient'ol;lihe;cbuhtry,. the ■Act.might/re- ,.'."/ :-S>, be, amended to suit,. altered con-. /^/;r '-[ ditibns: ; ■'.;• v»He> thought .thai"; the House §',;r'',V/nad/done L';K;S'.aE(Je' 'of ;his;;cbmpromise . : in; connection ;ii/;i«fS'iwitti the:compulsbry period from 21 year's ; 25,; the full v applicatibri of the spirit: of :';fpr;.a; : fsw;/years.' : : ;;Tlie -of ;:&'; .schenie !l|/>:;:/:.\vbuld tend to secure for, of:' a^-permanerit/kindj/arid allay.ma-fftiS;-:-terially-any possible ■ frictioh;which the - j ; :vxfe'full'operation; of 'the scheme,/;applied;at. ::&;■£;• might «ause. ■■' tf'M; ! ; j that.the'2l-2p;period; SiSt/wouldyultimately,/in about-four; ; /force, /and the.'structure de-: J;^?.!/.' : ;/:;'signed.^by v Lord //Kitchener ypreserved }&§; ;X'i would -have : been' ;;a 'serious;; /blbmish. i&tft The/ Bill ■ as it ;nbw'; stood 'did, hot• force bjer' 21/ into :tfoe;;:fprce;/;but iM'fii required/- those /under:' 21 //to/ go -. bi; 1 to SbVfar: ■; r^cOTcerned|; the / suggestions' /pfMf./Jas. ; . ; g'HSj/they ; bad/;adopted: : .wbuld/requiie .to/ be /'fe^/'iCMefully'eMrci^ea.H-;/;;;/:.:>;--?;v;_./;//;;;.' Minister, /continuing,:: said: §v' .";- ;; that,;he;-was ..opposed; to -the principle/of. v ; : by;:/compulsibnj/frpm/ciyil/aiid;; rhdtistnal- spheres;;pf /activity .-■'■ in--order;; : V;¥;;,£to/create/a standing-, army: i; ,;'TJhder/ the, iK A.i|a '//rwpuld;soon;j)e/in/a;positipVi' f/to:;//j u dge/ / ; ;#S^ ;^stemcbf;;universal;/.tfa , ining; i , |fe/;'iT<>?ated;;;for/New;Zealand :byASpfhe.;;;;.« . /;what ; :;limitatioh; '■; //;%/:•,was proposed/to be placed on,the num-' ; replied;that : / ; the;, requiredVas/20,000^r^at ; ;was. f ; wot- £ 'the//inumber;;;;statied vto.;; him/ /wh'enj/iu' -/ i'fi± as:.beingviidequate ,;for v /[the/ i isg:|//-peace;/est^lishinent; ; of -the,';fqrces,i;Fpr: s'§^24i w ar/ purposes•:the/n ; umber,;■-fixed:-;/was' / S/S'/S30)0P0;/-/This/number !; had"hothing ; /tq 4/s:y;dp v ;;with/th.e:. in J;j¥s|/regiirdi/to/:;which /the/positioh /would be, ■ , s '; v, /'v---iW3rJ ■;when/'the- \ cquntry/j raised i/sevoral; with /the-;/ additional ■ /^yj-Hvantolge/that;:thevinen-^available'Jfor ; ;/ : ser^ice ; -inj:ari:; ; ;^xp^ditibhary^ ' ■■ Vwas/iipthihg''■ / '-:'/!Kft/ / /pbditibnaryv:force:;;jS i i;;:7; J ';/;; : ; •Sy i? ; ¥//^T^^ > ?W^/^' l y^'': then/-touiied/pii;. ;■ the"/ ' ;;-/;i;;/£Bby^ScoutSj.: ; :ti/'//;;;?fulKcpurse ; ; i i^M^bpl^-/be /:.ppligat6ry //upon; -: cadets/and, :.;U 'iff pf; bqthi,:;;;ltefeiTingytbVtbe pro-: : /; or, the of'/courts-; £^/s;niai:ti.al^tli&^ ;of-;these;;iwould; only 'be/in-; as;a/last-;resQrt;:;in:.:dealihg;with;: Sl£jw/bffehces;in/the ;seryicei {'■.■•:■%': ;::;'/;;/':-^1;■?;;; '. cnticis/ai;/had;:bee:ii'^passed ; ; oh;' ?l^Ss(f^-'PP we^ /regulations; 5 ; ;/Withf regard : ; ,to: fcs3ofi that; he /would /state / thes^i;' regulations;' laid ',beifore:;Parliament within; j£.i/j£Rof sessiphV;.-'/.'/ i^>^ !iv) #% ?Si IMT ■//t^ s 'V • 's /' C H t Ibis hi.;/;; v 4 /V/c/ i f.[y;'otJ|fie'/conSdered";te ' //Billi-;: A/Ktremehdpus':/lot:/had: Ws!s&i bjen/lef t /tb/be l;dbhe ;by ;regdatibn;/:and; : / £4; ■ train/ ;by; side,'.'ifb.r' . ; four; years ;almbst/whp]ly.ra/ •?;i7*^; : teer/fp'rcei;;/:Therii;/again, : : V Afstate'd;tiat;;Sub-Sectioh:;?;,: of -Claiise r ;23/ sWj:%;-ibf ; the ;Act'/bf;i9.o9;:.was-: to 1 be ■ repealed] ; (S? ; ref erred/to ; ;transf ers; .by,. ballot: or! v-5 Otherwise, j from/'the/sgeheral : /training' -to•i'the'/Territorial; .Eorce.7t-He- >!;£%'■%■ Ppuld/ find.rhoVrefer;ence;-v,tb?/the:;repeal/; Sijjft;;;in-^fae.Bill 'as/ii/nbw.';stood;'-.-He;/,sup-; C ; /^^J^:rihis/wpuld/'be ; ;seen/to:/;'"/ ;/;;/>. . i§yZ ///^Referrihg;;to the/numbers;mentioned; ;S^^/preyipusly'-by: the v Prime; Minister,/ Mr. . s/^:i?/Allehithqu^t;that.;tliese : -/Should;; ;be ' ?;BSf|//made;:ch2irer// ; memorandum'set.dowh/the'annual i& vis/?'qubta/ bf recruits" :for*• the' ;S;s</!3orce/at\.;3690./; //There /5000/ it' ')&S '-/./riad/beeh; state^, : // : would be; required :'to the/general', training section; •j5/////iHow.long-were,thesb inen tor-.betrained?, Kt : M il: -The;PrimeJMinistervFroin'-'21; /to am/Very:;glad; ;tb hear ;■., It -slibuld /bo/anadd;:, perfectly i;"''//'J:'cleaT.;-;The reserye :; .u'nder such ;;a'. system 's/;/:; : /;/will/be/very-/much 'stronger,;'and more -;;:k^ ; [effective,; Againj'he/saidj,w;as : itho train-' ;/•..://'i fih'g/for/theiiTerritorial;:Force/tb ;bb? set! -;■;/; ; ;'/5but; in/ regulations? i;;,/.//y'jpbrtant;"pbint ; ; for any- attbmpt'to apply ;///':; :/!to;/-what; would,/ within/-tliev next ./few; ' 3; ;K?/tyeafs; ,be; largely forced the; r'''V//s' , set , bf .compulsory•''rßgulatio.hs/.w.itlf/re-' to training in would ;.;;-//;;;-ilead to'.defections from the force.;/ Ha ;,;-";,?;;;iwpnld:]ike.-to see/.the training for ;thb; S^v;///Territorials made, compulsory,; but/was. .;;.;:::}/:/'afraid, that some;,concession, would 'b6 ;?':// of :tliose : who'were :.'.'.:;.-;; Jstill' volunteers;: and 'who would vneces- .''/-'■':. tsarily constitute/the main' portion 'of the i;i;v//;;/TerritoTial-Force for the.next'fewyears;. /v,;;--/; ';JHe would Valso like / some.. assurance /'as ;v ;//;;•//to'the period of service to be laid down ;/;;;/;/,(for warrant and offi- ::.;:/.;;. ;,':cers,'.and also, what was proposed to be r./'V'v-. /done, to ■ ensure/-that justice'-wpuld -be /;/;;;/'.' given to /mehi.who ■ might -be prevented ;/.;;:..; V by .the introduction of tlie/scheme' from, ;'■:/,.:.•/'completing",their qualifications;:for'.. re-:<}:/'-ZZ/:wards— A/':longer: period ;;./;:, /./of service might also j/-with/advantage,. / ..v./';. be prescribed for. special branches,, of /■/,.■' '/the service—artillery, engineers, etc.,'' ■ ;;;;•'/• Concluding, Mr. Allen said' that.,the - • .//volunteer. force had not' been worth the ;/////;; money spont on itj'bntif the Command//./;; ant. was allowed tpcbmmunicate.direct /;;., ; wiJth;tho/Minister,;;and' work 'out tho de- /•-..:/; tails of the.;Bill, 'our homes should bo /-made, more secure than ever they, had" ,;•'//, been.before. '/ : ': •.' -.'

The Prime Minister In Reply,

In..reply Sir Joseph Ward; said that, the approximate strength, of flie force which he had given on. the second reading of the Bill required to bo modified by. the number: of men who .would not now, in consequence of amendments made in Committee, come in between the ag?.s. of .21. and. 25. He was not sure what this number would be. ..

• Mr;; J. AJlen: Twenty, thousand 'with wastage. V -. ;,. ..-.'...; J . :'.•• Sir Joseph Ward said his impression was , tfoit;the number would be about

12,000 after making allowance for exemption. Another result-of ; the amendment would be ;that the total cost of the scheme would" be reduced'. Ho promised to haVe exact figures worked out to show what the strength of the forces inoreased. It would be a: mistake- for the members of the volunteer force who had. been merged into, the Territorials to expect to oe .relieved from" reasonable camp duty. -/- It .would not be unreasonable, to call upon, them / for six days' camp, but that would require to bo provided, for by regulation. The Bill was at variance with Lord Kitchener's recommendation' only in ' respect, to the payment to be made to the higher officers." These;, were to-- bo , lower -than Lord: Kitdhener. recommended.".'.. The .'reason.'for this was that thqre.wap a feeling in this country, against paying : high "salaries, and in the public services and all '.walks,of life.except'in our great financial and' business institutions salaries' were, generally ■ lower' than they were /in,other;oouj.i;trtes. v .There, were some, countries /where 1 ' salaries'."', were, lower than-ours, but speaking generally they were, higher/; The. question ..of the training!of officers wastiiot yet.settled; It; should; be; .long, enough, to make it worth 'while the officers '.remaining' in the defence forces of the Dominion;: The time would probably not be settled till tho new Commandant arrived. Tho Leader of tho Opposition.

'■'-6a the.motion that the Bill be read, a. third time : - -;,•/j,i;./;/.;;,';■'■■-'.:'.;■ ;. ; j

- Mr. Massey expressed'; general approval of 1 the .Bill, .but said too/much 'was left 'to: regulation. ..The 'compromise', on the. age; limit .was; a .good p'ne/'as 'it wpuldyenablc the scheme; to be.' brought. into, operation gradually, thuds', avoiding; 'friction'.;;/Mr.'/.Massey" quotedf from'-a; speech/delivered by'' him' at Thames: on. 'May/- 24/-in which, he. /gave .'a .forecast of;, the/new : vdefenee;, scheme/which had proved V remarkably'// accurate: ■. j\ : There wore //many- ./who, were '" -.exceedingly anxious .to go/further 'than the: Bill went:, "The time/for,that/might come, but.'it'had not c'oiae yet; ; The peoplo ■nM*been J in .the, matter of'defence. They had consented 'to'an : increase of'taxation of. between : £4oo,ooo.and'£spo,opo,.fpr.defence, pur r Bill, and/to'the: presentation of- a Dreadnought, 'costing two millions,.to the Im- : perial'; Government':' /.For/all these/things they to : spine service-, able. , 'icheme,,of;, v delence'^//A : .good, deal .would';,depend on -'the/ selectionj,pf xthe; /quPtaJr-He"^ 'whether/it; would -"-be.: possible//to; : select by 'a-iyhemelpfyoxemption./ , ; ;He:, : did not' : «>b -Irowj/fc 't'hb 'number, ,'dbwri '< to/''twenty,/thousand fyVbegiih/ with:*? The' responsibility -for: the// success J ;bf- '.•'-the;f scheme • passing from Parliament\tb;the Minister. ~46r* Defence'; and^iiiuch:,,would /ori; : admiriistra'tibn':;' ;Tf :■ the..-principles: 'laid/down- /byi Lord;.', Kitchener - .were. : aaiered:i/'to\-/;;the/: V result--,; ; should, be/ satisraotory;;/-MrV "Massey 'Quoted , the* 5 warning.: obntained: /iriv-'yLord, i~ /Kit-' cbeiier's/•/'' /■ report : 'iX ' against'; ;■;; allowing' political Jinlue'nce'Ho"■,•'creep:'^;,ihV; : Lord. JKitchener .would,.."not : hayei:given/jthat; 'advice' if,l'hes^Kad' not.■•thought, it,' wa>" /needed:' J At,:theltiihe 'the: contingents .went to; SputH-Africa',; some; of /the;, omc'ere/.werej picked,,: hqif because. :theyi:had 'ekpenence,/}liad '.seervAJactiyo: service,',/ :,br3';because//; ;they/;;' ; :were: /cpuragebuS,: ■;:but:/;. .because;, they;:/ 'had political ■•■yinfliiericV. '"\Ji .^.that';/'.element /was:VtO',;.bb gbbd-bye'i tb; : ■■!effiQienc'yi'VMd;igpod.T.bye..'to' : safe^%r i /.Tliere'.)va^;!hee'd i ■Ijefe'iic©;' ■Department',/'-.to -;:It.'wb ; ;were:'to/'havo' in'com-. ; ipetent; /Officers-Vjii^;■' charge;KofV our/,def 'ferice'.':forces, It'requiredyiiO;.imaginatibn. ■'to/ predict' ■>; what-- 7 ''the•' , : bo ah; timeiof-;'troub : lev|,;lf; wp/wer%tp; : liave: iricbhipbtehi'bfficers..,;,we.: ; iriighfe abaridbh '/our', defence ischeme'.and : rely. 'upqi/ ■ the" f-British //Navy thisA'conV, iiection. 'he eapable r officer", who' was/such. ah\ enthusiast Sin; ■ defence; I .thinking'•■. tliefeVwas'-'sbmethirig^•seriously; wrong: to; have; induced'. Colonel "■ Davies; .;to :s have-left. : us : riat': this;;.stagey;:,;Mt:; Massey: xbmplaiiied f ;; ;a, 'shilling;;of thei;hipney:'wMch;;HvaK:';re-. ceived:.by;'way ; ,bf!iincreased ;;;;,taxation; ;the ; legislatibn'.;of-'last'year:; : h'ad been- biased '-■ for'defence:- purposes.;:'; The expenditurev , during.. i ]ast financial;'^year on. 'defence;/.-wa«V;;Yery^.'muph ;usuaLs';';|//"';!'':;'/v-i: , ;.''/'i i ''; '■■'s&/l '''.Hi : V':A : Lover; £550,000 ./this/iyear.-.W;- gfi ;';/:', ; ' : ;;j : rfiU- ■'£" ■ Kriyveti/; 'H';;: - }: Hi P' :i made. ::/a', .brief'.^reference '.to/yithe' ;\case;. bf'-V'-ex-/ |.Capta'in ! /vEiiyvett;-;'' He'/'Uhpughtit'the; '/claiise-'w.hich l-lia'd '^been'intrbduced-. into'. ■ the;Bill ■'to '■" govern/icpurts-martial twas "a.' I good * one.'.'.; All. that ; the' frieuds' of /■ Mr., I 'Knyvett':desired ; was:;a: f air; trjal;-in/ an' '.'open;. Court, ;'an'd".if /he /got this '-and ■ was ; ! Js'till;.fbvind to;:be,:wrorig he/AVould'take,, ;his;:puhishment;;i;like:.a;.;:nia;n;% There, j.was- one other point.arising /biit of/, this' ''caso'that/required'notice':''.: A' : statemeht ! the ■•countryithat .a'.'m'enjber:!of: : the Khyvett Defence ■'•Committee'' 'had ...received /; ■ £60 in .the.chairmari 1 of the.committee thatthat was'.nbt so;./;.No'';member;:of ■.thei, ; cpm-' imitteevhad /been C;'; : v, : ;' /; Sir Joseph, Ward,':'/ WKere! '.did'•;'.,they.; get :'therexperises;;frbm ,';;|j;: ; ;..Mr::'MaSsey':/-From/ Jectod/tor /•;';(;:'jV;'\

'• <\ Sir' Joseph,VardVjln the; streets? ,: ceived. a penny of 'remuneration/ during,:prior„to, or.after, 'the;,southern /tour'.-;.,, V : .Mr..Newman/(Man'awatu) said//the;; Opposition'". /agreed principles/of-the. Bill./ Personally//lie would/ rather' '•' L l6Ml'-his/. :rev6rse/li//;r;::v^v/;. :^;/'"////::! -''-;; ! r-: ■-/ . : ;Mr^Forbesv(Hxtrunui),u'rged:'.that ; rifle clubs/'Should; feceiye/every; possible: en-, co'uragemeiit;.;]:. ;-.'.::.■ ;■■;/,:;■■;;■:•-'.";'".;" '/'/'■'■-''„ :.'- -Mr./Buchanan/(Wairarapa) ,said ,'he; ■had'supported the. Bill 'free; from party; 'bias;- /Much/now; depended ■on: the/ad- ! ;ministfatioh. .of. .the; Act.", -He. quoted, a letter/ from '&[ settler in his''district 'who. iserved »:in' J . South --.^Africa,.,; expressing iregret /at the/departureK of : Colonel ■Navies/: who,/the. writer, considered/ "bur/best general;'', //J;//.'/ /'//•;•. : "/ ~ Mr. ■ Jennings.. (Taumarun'ui)'.' said he' favoured the' age. being -.raised. to' 25. ■"■•;Mr".'-/Wilf6r"d';:(Hutt)Tsaid "that/;the countryVwould be' well/rid of the-man whoV,,wished ;to,' shirk . his: duty "to; his country./.; / / ,//y..; V ':/- /■: /!;•//;'-..'"' too Much; Left for the Regulations.

~ Mr.■ Hemes... (Tauranga). :; said'.there were to be, exemptions, but j'they ■ ap•peared neither in the' Act.nor in the Bill TheyJ were'.to ; '.be provided .for in regulations:' There, had .been'some tali about, the;quota;'.'.but neither did. this .figure ,; in ■'■ the, Bill.V It :WW'.giving- the Minister.for Defence'andihp Commandant . a' blank cheque,. which they could 'fill■ in as .-they "pleased;. Further;:.the Bill did 'not indicate as .to what 'areas the colony'is;'to bo' divided into, and what the use; .;of. the. areas are ; to be.- \Ho-.-objected strongly -to/ ever)'-, tiling being left to.the regulations. A .-.straight-out scheme 'should; have.' beenbrought down.by,theJVlinistry. In his opinion, the best part of the Bill was the doing away;with the effete Council of Defence; i The' powers ■ given 'to tho council had been'wrong, and in some instances square men had been put into round holes. ■"• Frohr; a" military point of view, we ' were'.: dependent. mere on the young "iricn than on the mature man; He-thought this would not be found-to be workable, and that older men would be: required to serve. The Bill was only a skeleton:Bill, and tho Minister or the. Commandant could fill it up as they liked, and it was not right to ask- the; House. to pass 'the Bill as it stood without its embodying the complete scheme. Mr.,G. : M. Thomson (Duncdin North) »,»,vuy3 wHk ■ th 6 DrinciDle of the Bill,

but at the same time thought that tho measure was- somew.hat.'in advance of public opinion. , Ho- went on to urge that rifle clubs should receive,more consideration at'the hands of. the Government.. .:,"•..' , -../; : ;..''/:. ■. ■ ■

Mr. Fisher (Wellington Central) remarked that the competent Imperial officers wlio had been brought out to, New Zealand at .various, times had been tongue-tied from, .tho time they set, foot in New Zealand to the' day they .left; If the administration of this measuro .was ; to be,' successful tho new f-ommaiidant' must ; be- >given'., a; free hand; and not be subjected to civil interference. ,The new; scheme ; would, he thought, tend to the well-being of the young, ;nieiibf' ; Now / Zealand, but ■ lib would like to' know what was proposed for those left b'ut.pf/the Bill. '.-.' Commissions should, go.to ■ ihciv-pf '.merit.' Social position should not count. Mr. Clark (Chalmers) strongly supported the .Bill; ~ . .'•'''', ''• .■ '.

Mr. Russell (A von),urged 'that the Government rather strengthen its defences, from a'/.naval, point ,'of, view. He thought .'the first'.duty iof _ the Government should bete.communicate with the naval authorities at Home and say New Zealand was: prepared" to, do her. fair share in/tne. establishment: of one impregnable port .as. a' naval .base in New Zealand. '~»,.;■':. ,' ■.■';': i

•; Mr. ,/Fraser :,.(Wakatipu) said he thought the. BilL'was'hbw./a'-very much, improved ;.measure:. The-scheme at present was . a skeleton scheme, and ■ the blanks had to be filled-up by. those .entrusted with 'its;administration.■;'•,:He hoped^thattheVPreinier-would'later on give. them more precise : information in regard to the'; details .of th§;.scheme. It was, an; entirely. new-; scheme,.and ihey- : ,cbuld not'- expect '-perfection at once',' .butt-heßill was: brie, of-the finest things the House had attempted - for many a,year; ;.,■".. ;,.'/.:'■;' ' ;

': ••'.Mr; T.'E. Taylor/(Christchurch:North) did not think the details of the scheme could, possibly; be placed ' iii the/ Bill as some/speakers",-had/suggested/ ; Within twoyears of; thehßill; coming/into operation, there would- necessarily: be: radical changes ' insisted oh, which noi Parliament pr/;Minister could "resist.;'- Therby .would not,/lie/believed," ..be/any /'jexenip'-. ■tions;■except;under /hiedical 'certificate or iri'the case .of a member's'special employnierit;/: /, ;v .'.'■ /:.;'';_:: -.-'/:-

.: : ;Mr. /iUibdes',-. (Ellesmere) 'apprbyed of. the.'/measure.; He;:did,nqt.-think : there; jwbiild- be any opposition 'to the. raising of. the, age:from ,21 ; -years to/25; ,His .regret'; : was/that.the.thanks ,of 'the 'Go-' vernmeht- had. not been extended-;iri/the 'general'or'ders'.;tb:tlie';bld volunteers.'' 'i

-■.: :Mt./', , Buick ; (Paliriefston: /North) thbiight; something should be , done to encourage; the,;-'men /after/ ; they/had : served; their ;.://:///-' : ' : : ; ' y v ;/:v\/;

;'- / Other Opinions/

: /-llr. ; :Hogg;(Mastertbn)' considered tie ■Bill;'• was: a v,distinct <;' step• ■' backward:; Money'/could ;;be raised-ior this military: ;'scheme\for; taking a-wJsfy.vthe,-. liberty of .our young jrijen, : but '• the'l people' of the ibaipkiblcic&.oDuld-nptgetVmbney'tp-cbn-': .strudt.ToadSjxbridge's, and: : railways to; .'give'; them 'acbess'.tp/ markets./.-'A/huge .'sum^;.p^■mpney^:•was;vt6^:■^'e:^ : expehded■..on.■ ;what; was^tomfoplery;:; ; v /;;;V ://-//■' ;/' '/'-.Mt; ; Hardy.: (Selwyn) favour of .the.Bill.aiid! expressed ;h'is.'regret-.at. yiousl speaker.'/-'/. '.?■■]', l-•'//////'.'.'/.//;/. ■^MrV;Jasi'AUeri.''(Bru i c6) : /''said,:'hd'.;pre'r.. sum'ecl Mr. : Hbgg r was posing, as'a leader .6f; : : .the i; great r; dfemocracy r /and''it-''ivas: in. the'-interests,'- of.-; the/■'great '"democracy that- this Bill y/is > to. he 'placed on the l Statute; B'bok..:' , . ; ,Qbher,.- Rations','-.wore, arming''to "the teeth and 'if ',we' sat/still -and.did-nothihg; -what, he.askedj/,wbuld ib6:'r , thP-;:''&df i ;;.:Hb!s.3i6je'dj;tnalb';:-: before, many.yearsih'ad'passed thby.' wbuld ; have, ■a scheme'of .defence,oilwhich it, would'. bp;.wbfth;Jspejidingftieir:;mpneyU',■'..'//. W ,: ;-W;itty-: (Riccartbn)' .said '.it ,'was ; noCwonderj. the/'/vblunteer /system"', had. not.been,'a succfiss-.considering;the .way. ithp fm'en, had'.beeiv treated'-ana/knocked .from 'would;-have ibeen 'better.'to/havp .'gone bivSijvithl.the' iBill.;-of■*Uasfc...year',' until we;.saw";libw t . we"stood.;/In ; : two or. three : ycaTsZ-a;, grpat ...manyJipebple:-would \.be : isprryj-'this "Bill .had 'been'/passed;:/ V\ v'j'Slr.';Andersbh! (Mataura)/ said thebnly' • 'thing-;'he Regretted was';that/the age .hadMieeii :exteiided.'.tb :2q,/but'he: would . ; nbt*'spt''liimself':up ./against ".the..opinion ;pf/&rd/Kitch;enerjV/////^ Reply. -/"'-\/\ : ." //Replying/as£liylo7/the •Minister."for. 1 ■ Defence y (Sir '■ Joseph-CWard)'.combated' .'the suggestion''that^ffib.:Bill was doing a -yrong .toVthe.'workers "of' the country. 'i expenditure.'.f or/ defence /w'asYyery,; .'largely /ueing/'bbrne/by/the-glasses.in better .'circumstances, in: : fact',v the - sur'.tax,'wa;s:'.tho'only channel: through which. .'tk& worker /hath; been/' tapped ; fbr /the : to'-' the: ; jexpenbUture which',had.'been/authorised for'/defence Md'.'not "'been v ''used^.for/ ; .'tliat(.''purposo, ;the!.>um./,of ; :.abqi:it £500',000 .' had' been, spent:;/;Of"~this : ';£so,OClO,Awas ; an ;instal-. inehi; towards /armament.; and / -.'equip-.-nient.y,The;anipunt: authorised uponJthe Dominion's Dreadnought ■wass £264,000 ;plus/ £211,000 .of/ which/ £350,000' /had actually; beenrpaid.':' and- .authority' for the'.'remainder-had.lb'een given.' -/,;,:. / '•':] '': : Mii.^Massey: : /When'..was;.tbat paid?;/:, /■Sir/Joseph 'Ward:,.lt/has/ been/paid. :thjs' : year. ; '/ : .'"/;; '• ;>//-. ; ';/'/ ; "'%: ;/.'-/' : :'' / Mr./Massey: I.was ref erring, to last' 'year;/-- -./'//-// ; '/:;'./:/.-;/;,;/ :: - ; ./ r /'// : /' - •;." : Continuing, Sir .Joseph.- Ward- : said .thatas/a result of,the^amendment'.made in ' the 'age' .limit.: the 'fund- i'.wbuld be reduced from ,£105,000 ■,to/£92, : 000. : .He -had..'discussed with Lord;Ritchener. wliecompanies, could .not be. continUea!..and,:he saw,:no reason '■: why they/should'.'.not,./though .there/would have.to;bp..amalgamation.in sbnie'cases., ■Rifle'/clubs would,' be/;eneburaged / and • prpvisionlwould:bb...ma.de lor/giving 150. rounds of, freo/ainmu'nitibn' -and 200; rounds. at reduced . prices/ 1 .} Gate would ' /be'taken/that' volimteer's/wko/'were close •up.to the'time at .which'-they.wwild'-be entitled'.to/medals,' wbuid.not be : ovef- ■ looked.';'?Hp .p.roposedVtp-'as'k the Houso ' .befprb;tiie ; session/closed'to .record itsappreciation of''.. the/w.brli' of/.the; yoliih-,l^rs/-/-':-/;;.;t/::''-: ■-'.., '.. The Bill' was, then /read .a/third; time '• •.'..■;;/ ■/:/;/!'r/;v,/;';./. /// :

:/:■ HEARTY APPROVAL. ,Y ./'. (By,. Telegraph.— Press" ; Association.) '•": ■ ' i •'.:' />.- : punetjin, October ;4. .- . ;At-a meeting of .'the. Committee: of '.the. Chamber; of:. Commerce.-.to-day a motion 1 was .adopted- 'expressing hearty approval of ;:the''progress; made,"'by the Government with reference';'to 'the. defence proposals,' and trusting: that. Lord Kitchener's: recommendations' ; be, : adhered to as closely,: as'; possible,t also, expressing gratification;., at\the : retention of the ..age.' limit. of-25, years. notwithstanding .that it: does/ not come into force, immediately. ■~';.:. ■'... ■.'.: