WHO IS TO BLAME?

Dominion, Volume 4, Issue 933, 28 September 1910, Page 5

WHO IS TO BLAME?

THE PARLIAMENTARY MACHINE.

TOO SLOW.

A "SPEEDING-UP "PROPOSAL. , REMARKS WITH A "VITRIOLIC TOUCH." •' With a view of trying to expedite the business of Parliament, a resolution to permit of now business being taken after 12.30 o'clock at nights was brought down in the House of Representatives yesterday. The Prime Minister, in moving in this direction, said that up till now the discussions that had taken place up to 12.30 at nights had been very considerable. As a result the' ordinary business of Parliament had proceeded slowly—very much more slowly than usual. . The total number of Government Bills passed this session up till now was only seven, including Imprest Bills, and the number of private and local Bills-.passed was only eix. it was a very small result to achieve in the time. . It the 12.30 bar had, not existed more legislation would have been put through. He was not reflecting on anyone, but he thought that there had. Ueeu a niuch greater tendency to' talk up ail 12.30' at nights than usual. They had an aumission ironi an hou. membor that . the proper thing to do when dealing with an enemy was to take advantage ot every opportunity in order to embarrass him. t ais policy had ' been. carried .-out. to an extent mat- nad ;not ouen warranted. x he Government, proposed to ; put its policy .Bills! through this session. -■ For cnat reason; unless the session was to last an inordinate .length, it would be better to adopt his -proposal.' Talking up till ...SO at .nights, as at present, simply meant delaying.the business, and, later, members wno uad been partly responsible lor the delay, would complain that business was being rushed through at undue speed. What /was being done might be all right in": the way. of. tactics, out •"■.-it' could: not-. ■ be "■/ justified.

Opposed to Driving Tactics. Mr. Massey, Leader of the' Opposition, said, that it the : majority .of members: .were;willing to agree to the motion the responsibility was theirs., Ho was as .will-: ing' and able as any other member to 6it up to' daylight l it: it became necessary. lr the business,had been tasen ina proper manner there, wouid have been" more progress." During the-first and .{second .weeks'- of. the session the,Address-in-Repiy. was.discussed, and:there was little; speak-, . ing from the . Opposition side of. ..the House.: When the Financial, Lebate came on a wimt-oi-confidence . motion ;. was moved, and although ,it was disposed.of in two \days, the debate. was allowed to drag oh tor three weeks. -If the .-Prime Minister had wished ho{ could have finishr cd. off this debate in ; a fortnight or less. The Prime' Minister said he. had never seen ; so.'much anxiety to {talk up. to 12.30 to. prevent new business coming on;., This, was. quite {true, but the Prime Minister ■ himsetf-.was: the'sinner. On three occa-sions-last 'week Sir Joseph Ward; had himself talked • up to 12.30.- ;On Friday night he (Mr. Massey) had .'agreed at 12 o'clock to drop the debate to allow the Estimates to,be {brought on, but despite this the Prime Minister'talked:out time.. Oh two occasions last week the .Prime, Minister's time;was extended. :He would like to: know- what; the Government-'in-tended to do in the way of.business., They said they .{intended to go on with policy Bills,,but that was a very comprehensive term.; "If,"' added Mr. Massey, '/driving! tactics are intended, I will,not consent to them. T say this without making .any threats.;. If {the. Prime Minister conducts business'.'in a. proper way he ■ will - have my: assistancerias,he.has had tip to the present" ,-','-,.:' '• .''■.'•';';■■': -{..'■'.-V'' '' -Mr. Pearce .(Patea) said/'tbe country did not: desire.' Bills to {be: passed: in the. early morning.hours, when members were ir.ore or less asleep.- '-,•'- ;{; ; ; , ;

{Mr. .|S. M. Thomson (Dunedin North) said :that if ; necessary the. House: should sit earlier, but it should rise every night by 10 o'clock.. He blahied the tactics of the Prime Minister-for, the waste of time. Tho. Prime' Minister! himself,{took, up a lot of the timo.of the House. On.Friday he must have taken three, hours, for his speeches. There was too imich useless repetition in-the. House: ~ : •':■'' '■■'''. 'Mr. T. M. Wilford (Hutt) said -that if; the" House, rose every night at .10 o'clock four speakers .might fill up the whole of the evening, after.a Minister.had introduced, an'important Bill. { 'v.-.-':

Mr. ■•- Herdman' (Wellington ■ '•' North) urged that ,-wkat, was wanted w,as, proper discussion on all matters. A fat Statute Book'at the end of the session; was hot what -the country, wanted. It';would be: far better ;if less, legislation were 'passed: and. more': ; attention; paid -to {criticism{of the., expenditure, of publio, moneys. There were a/number of Bills mentioned in the Governor's {Speech: which 'had;: not yet: made .their-.-appearance. ■■ Where 'was .'the National Annuities Bill? Was it printed?

;'■'y- ; 7T' 7.N0-yes7.;'''-:V:V.-'.'y.' The Prime Minister:.:Tes;': '.',■ J;. Mr. Herdman: Is the' Gaming Bill printed? ,' :; :. ,v v - : .-.; Sir Joseph: No—yes. (Laughter.) •.,.■;.; Mr. Herdman: But it is not before the House. ; - ":■.',•.:'""-■ ■:';'■<','■: "v ,v , Continuing, Mr. Herdman. .said : that: he would like to- know where was the Local Government Bill.' .':'■':.;' Sir Joseph: It is not .ready yet.:; ; '.:-/, Mr. .Herdman: What about the Electoral Bill and "the Anti-Trust Bill? ■'■, . ., Sir Joseph: They are down. Mr. • Herdman: Yes,.;l had overlooked, them.-'. '.'■-.'..;■ ■'■.;"' ■.'"■ -.'■■'■ '.•.'■■:■'■ Resuming, Mr'.' Herdman said that he, felt sure'the country, would be 'in favour] 'of restricting the, legislative. proclivities of the -Government. : Would' it not be better if the House confined itself to the important. Bills, ; say, Defence' and Land, and have those, questions oughly* threshed out? The' country was tired of this legislation .which was to. a large extent responsible for the commercial .stagnation that existed. ..;;:. ■: The Hon. T. Mackenzie: j Commercial stagnation?; .- .'■.•■''-''•:;.'*:'?■'■: Mr. Herdman: Thero is" not the slightest doubt, about it. . "v■■-.:"■' .:-. ■-.•; ..Proceeding,'Mr. Herdman said that people would not: invest their ■ capital in trades which were handicapped by, legislation. The Hon. X Mackenzie might jeer as much as. he liked, but it. did not.alter the fact. 'Merchants, .shareholders, etc., were absolutely tired i of much' of \the legislation that was: being passed.. ; . , , Mr. Russell: Are : these remarks in .order? ■!.'.; '•'■' ;■ '."','' Mr. Speaker: They.may be incidentally, mentioned; but cannot be pursued./ Sir Joseph Ward:' Hear, hear. :■ Mr.' Hordman: You don't.... like;' them. (Laughter.) '■:■■' Continuing, Mr. Herdman said that the so-called Liberal '■ party did not imagine that they were doing' their duty unless they passed a fat Statute Book which only gave work-.to tho' lawyers. The delay in the was entirely, due: to the Government who irare responsible for' its conduct.' .".'.•'..' -■ "A Fighting Session." ■ Mr. Fisher (Wellington Central) pointed' out that, iiv 1905..20 classes of the .Estimates had been passed in . a .'similar period to that now reached in the present. , session That ■. session was known as a fighting session. There were further 39 Bills cither through the Committee stage or passed. These Bills included. the Shops and Offices Act' and the Shipping and, Seamen's Bill. He would,,be sorry for . tho people of New Zealand if the .whole 5G Bills : oh the Order Paper wero, passed; There was a rulo in tho House of Commons to the effect that no Bill should bo introduced, unless it had a reasonable chanco of passing. Mr. Hemes (Tauranga) declared that there • was" a. vitriolic touch about some of tho Prime Minister's remarks. Mem-' hers'would havo noticed how Sir Joseph ii.ad quoted statements'in a veiled way.' It was .true that a member had stated that an enemy.would attack if ho, got an opportunity. Would not Sir Joseph do.the same' thing ?. Tho session Jiad proceeded calmly; and a lot.of business had.been done." There wore quite a number; of Bills lit the Committee stage. By placing 'important Bills'in front of tho Estimates' .it simply' meant blocking the latter. If J

the House went on to deal with Bills in' Committee, the 12.30 bar did .not apply. The proposal now made was a sign of weakness; this, was the first Government that had ever made such .a suggestion. Members of. the Opposition had done all they could to help the Government with the business of' tho session. The w.hole trouble was that tho Order Paper had not been properly arranged. Views of Other Members. Mr. Hanan (Inveroargill) .declared that the present 'state of aSairs .was due to the party system.... Under the present conditions the lives of the Prime Minister and Mr. Massey were not worth living. Mr. D, M'Laren (Wellington East) said that members should legislate when their heads wtro clear. He did hot agree with Mr. Herdman that further legislation was not needed, and he thought the. business should be put through: Industrial legislation, .which was being asked'for by sections of the community, was being delayed. ;Mr. Eussell (Avon) .opposed the suggestion made by Mr. M/Uaren that ne was the only representative of ■ Labour. He regretted the necessity for the motion. For himself, he did not intend to sacrifice his health by sitting up night after night. He did not wish to criticise" 1 the manner in which the Government had arranged the Order Paper, but "it appeared to him that time after time subjects had been brought on with the deliberate intention of creating a discussion that would otherwise not have taken place. -'.'-;. Premier Blames the Opposition. ;, In reply, Sir - Joseph Ward .said Mr. Hemes had made a statement that was deliberately contrary to fact, when he said this was the .'first time such a motion had been brought forward. Mr. Massey asked; if the expression was I in order, and the Speaker ruled it was. Continuing, Sir Joseph Ward said a_ ■ similar, motion" had -been - carried .' in 1908, ' and "on , occasions during the time of the'late Mr. Seddon. Combating the statement' that business was not' ready: Sir Joseph said that already .SB Bills had been introduced. Since the opening of Parliament, the House had sat only 25 times for a total of 27 hours 21. minutes after midnight. Then again the average length of the daily:sitting since the opening of the session was eight hours.' The length of. the Financial Debate was due to the Opposition,' who held.members back. He had never seen the .. Opposition so badly "led. "\ (Ironical laughter.)- To the Opposition-he 'would say: "Put your own'. house in order.""lt was shocking, wretched, deplorable, distressing to see the;-: degeneracy that had gone on in the ranks of the Opposition. (Renewed laughter.) He (Sir Joseph) had -not wasted ..time once this session, l but;the Opposition had done so froiu tho: beginning of the session.'.' Tho other day Mr.l Massev had; declared that he (Sir,. Joseph) hai spoken three times asmuch asiany other member. .As a',-_matter,■■•.•.of-fact he had spoken '""■ two . arid one-third .timqsias;mucli;as.Mr.; Massey,. hut his. speeches had been: necessary.; He-,■ pV;. jected to Mr., Herdmari's carping criti--oism; and was surprised, that,he-should, not'have •known; that some, of the meas-, ure3 which; he had mentioned were down. ; Mr. Herdman: Have you . giveii : the; House a chance to discuss.them?►?.-'"- ,(,"; Sir Joseph: That does, not matter. .'.: ■ Not a New, Departure.;;; ' .- Continuing, Sir Joseph'said;,that there was,more, work before' the''Houstf- than .it knew what.to'do with 'just now.!! He-was.: Wot going'to clog the Order Paper. .'One "of; the" Bills; which had not wt been brought down-was; the Local 'Government Bill, which would 'consist of 400 olauses, and was'very important; Jjt had not yet;received' thevfulL consideration of Cabinet,.butwould receive every attenr. tiori from Ministers with; a view to its. circulation this' ; session.->The whole'policy•;. of. the- Opposition seemed •-.- to . be "Grumble, Grumble, .Grumble; Delay, Delay, Delay.'' '.It"--had ,no;.constructive" .policy, but a gourmandisjrig;.ppwer in : the way • of. •; taking .'■■; oredit , for;;, every thing.;. (Laughter;) : Other -Governments of: this; country, had .found•• it : necessary,, to' 1 have' the 12.80 a.m." bar removed earlier in the, session, also to take. Mondays and Saturdays for Parliamentary;business .before the session had advanced;a great way.: This.was due to!the tactics of the, Opposition. v ' v ' '---;■■-<.';:-''';;:-,:■, .; ■;■ Upon a division, the motion waa agreed > to -by: votes to 25. '; :.:;;:;;.::.;;•':;:;:;;•: