THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 915, 7 September 1910, Page 6

THE HOUSE.

LAND SETTLEMENT FINANCE AMENDMENT BILL. When the' House resumed yesterday the Laid Settlement Finance Amendment Bill was introduced. The PRIME MINISTER,.in reply to a question,. stated that it was. proposed to increaso tho maximum amount which could be taken up by an . individual settler under the Bill. ■■■' > '■.'■ Mr. HEREIES (Tauranga) • said he hoped that it was proposed also ' to 'reduce the minimum area that. might be taken up.' w . ; ■:,- - ' The- PRIME MINISTER said that it was not considered advisable to reduce tho minimum. Mr. IV E.- TAYLOR (Christchurch 'North) said, that the tendency of the Bill was to increase the price of land. Land in,the vicinity.of sucn a settlement would immediately rise in value. - Ho suggested : the principle of the' Small Allotments Act at Home. In return for his. land-the owner got what was equivalent ,to' a, gilt-edged security.'" The Bill must aggravate the very evil which it was designed to obvintft. ■■'■'■ ,- .'.Mr. ERASER (Wakatipu) declared that in:order to carry out tho.principle enunciated, by Mr;, Taylor it would be: necessary to prevent .'subdivision •:',of 'land. (Laughter.) - ' Mr. , BUICK (Palnicrslbn North) said he hoped that. the- minimum amount of land which could be taken, up would' be reduced. .'V ''' ' • Mr. !MASSEY.asserted' that .it was the landlord.'who got, the. benefit of: the.Small Allotments Bill'at Home. If, he so desired :the landowner could resume, his property; under certain circumstances. He approved of the. measure because it would increase the number of freeholders. _ Mr. FORBES (Hurunui) 'thought; that it would: be a great advantage .if' the Bill could .be ' applied to .; second - and third-class .'lands. , ■ Tho=PRIME. MINISTER- said that-the doors-of the scheme: could not' be 'openedtoo- wide,' otherwise the Stato .would .find itself upholding .responsibilities, running into'millions of pounds.. ; v''■',,■"-.■'

■•';. : HUTT RAILWAY W0Rks;:;; ;! ; Upon the introduction, of ,a Bill providing for the allocation of .an additional J535.000 for the Hutt railway work's,' r '.'• ,Mr:. HERRIES '.(Taur'anga) asked-.whe-ther this -would be the last amount .which would be needed. ; In. 1903 the House was informed that,-',£loo,ooo.'' would..be -sufficient:. ,Since/that time ; .£3oo,o(lo.'had been, expended.; v-. .'.■'..'-.''"•■;,'.-.■. ' : "■■'...'•■'''"'. '.'.'•' .; \Slr. Millar:, Moneys have .to,.be.recouped frbin-.local:' bodies! , .■': '.. ,:'■'.■■.;';,'!.;.;•, ; : ', .'Mr;.Herries;.(cbntinuing)..said thaVthe'y were':,tolil -that..the ,reclamations .would pay ior;the. expense.;.'.''As i far, as• he could .see the. reclamations.', were; smaller .'than .was pngirially. understood. . People'in the back-blocks iwh'o.'had:no .railways/objectod. .to '.huge; expenditure, in /big stations, etc., "■. - ■'-.'-.'-', '- ' i ..The PRIME, MINISTER said thai, if the: external portions .of .the reclamation were\carried ,out, and were,-sold Hie': purchase -moneys' would.-jmy ;fqr, the expense/ When the Raihvay;Bill.dealing with 1 the question; .was ..before. ;the House he 'had ,put clearly! ~'. ■'..",'•': ■'•'. ; /- '■ .Mr. MASSEY said .that it was; stated in■ 1903-that. it .was ■■ intended to' sell the reclaimed-- land. 1 ; .Before," the Government undertook any .'work it .should, get,an ei-'. timate.of the 'cost.'.; Why ayear /or-Wo "ago. the Prime. -Minister had. said that the. new .vice-regal residence would 'riot cost' more, than ■'. He' knew- that the work,was:necessary, but had it cost less.than ,je50,000? ' .> ." ', ,'".>:-; ~;: . '''"':■ .Sir .Joseph: Is; this,;matter before.-.the ■Committee.?/'.-,',' [ .+-.; . .''-., ' ■ The .Chairman: No.- ' : ■':? :'..'-v'i'•',"' ;'.The-PRIME,MINISTER then"said.-that When the ; ,,reclamation-work was. complet- ; ed, there.'ijbul.d 'be reclaimed'land ..to'be. sold.:.••; The 'work- n ad. : to . be,; completed within the limits of the original scheme.' ;'■■ Mr. ■ HERDMAN (Wellington. r North) pointed'out. that; it.was .officially', stated in both 'Houses in ,1903 that, the '.work, would cost only .More than'that; it was stated that the' Governrheht would be reimbursed from . time to time by: the sale of land that was to.'be '. replaimed.No doubt .the work., was one of necessity. „ Hon: T.:Mackenzie: What are you -.coni-plaining-.'about?':';'--"."'.-' .:;",:..::' '!',■'.: : ■ Mr/. Herdman: That: there ' has : .'.been gross '. waste in • connection withthe, work. , The Hon. J. A. MILLAB (Minister, for Railways) i.said' that up 16 the' present time 'ho ■ laud had -been 501 d..; The •' land 'upon which work was'not-beirig ! d6nc : was ..that .which would recoup the ..Government., , : -;',:."-: '.. :■■■'■ ■'.'. | .- :< '' : -', : -..-''" ":, . Mr. :Arnbld: How much is. there? V..'; ,Mr. : Millar:: Between:.3o a'nd-'4O acres. . 'Resuming-Mr. Millar, said that',£so.ooo had been, spent oh ..the road;,.-.'. . Mr. Jlassey,:: Ha 3 • that ■' been recouped ? . Mr; Millar:.No,_'when. the work, is completed a commission ..is.to bo set up to allocate tbe.cost. ..,. :.'"..'■:■'."■','■

:'- 'in,the course, of 'further Mr.' Millar .said that, it was expected that no further moneys, would be required in con-' nectioii. with th'ti undertaking. /■ 'He,:, dehied that there'had been' any wilful waste, of moneys.":; The duplication- was "very necessary; ■•. ■ It was -hoped, that ultimately, the Government would be very '•? largely: recouped, ;. ! • ■'■■>,■ "■ -/. -SUGAR BEET JNDUSTRYBILL./, ' '.When: the" measure containing, the, Government's proposals,with reference to. the, /establishment of the ,sugar beet lindustry was:brought down, Mr, T. E.'TAYLOR'fChristchurcht'said. that it was clangorous'to.let.tho country get under the .power of two monopolies, oho in Australia and the other created iu this .'country by; this Bill. No matter, what legislation 'might- .bo. passed .'there' would be.ii/secret arrangement between the beet company and the . Australian company..'. We'.'.would: ho paying'tlwhien who were : robbing us a penny: a pound subsidy, and we would be bled at/ three or four points at once,, instead of one as now. .This result, like the Jlidland railway ' contract, 'would require .to be watched. The way he had read the Bill was 'that; power was given to/the Government to establish 'the- industry, -and if this seemed, too -formidable a work, to' allow private enterprise to undertake it. : Sir JOSEPH WARD ..replied :that the interests of the State worn, safeguarded under the Bill./ When the' companies paid five per". cent ,■ they would bo ..compelled'to reduce the • pricb of sugar. ' •Mr. Taylor: They can' fix up the, bal-ance-sheets. ",' . -. . Sir Joseph Ward said that if the country, went into the industry itself it would involve an expenditure not: exceeding five hundred thousand. It' wuuld bu incomparably' better to let other peoplo risk their money. Mr. MASSEY said that if private euterpriso started.the industry he hoped it ! would be successful. If the- State started the manufacture of beet sugar he was certain it would make a heavy loss, and would not be successful. He would voto against the State doing anything of thu kind. - ' Mr. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) said ho sympathised with the Bill, but ho urgod. the heed for caution. He had be«n~asmired by a Califorriian expert that every part of New Zealand was too near the sea to grow-.sugar beet successfully. Further, a lady who had learned farming in Vranco had told him the industry would not be a success here. Only the very best laud could bo used, and it was not possible to take two crops of beet from the same laud without giving it a spell. The cost of labour was also a serious factor. TIw'PRIME MINISTER. Raid the people in the north believed they had land which was not useful for much else, and which could grow sugar. A gentleman with a great deal of experience had communicated with the Government through his lawyer, and said he could carry out

the. industry successfully. Tho Government could not nationalise' everything. Mr. Masscy expressed thu hope that the promoters of the proposed company would give evidence before the finance and Commerce Committee.;. The Prime Minister'said he agreed that the committee should have the cvideneu of the gentlemen interested in' the proposed company. '•'■". -V. '■;. NATIVE TOWNSHIPS/BILL. . BATTLE AS,TO . TENURE. ... _In Committee!on the.Native Townships] 8i11,,•■ ' ~ The Hon. J. CARROLL moved an addi-'I tion' to Clause 15, dealing with restrictions on-lease of Native allotment, of the foUowing words:'"and in no.case shall al lease be. granted of any such .allotment on which there is a church or meetinghouse,". -,!-., '~., ;.- .....,.-. . The amendment-was agreed, to. - ;AVhen Clause 19 was-reached,-Mr. Herries moved in the direction of allowing the- Natives- to sell, the freehold,.- with the consent of the Native Land Board, to the.lessees as well as.to the Crown. He thought the board, in-which the laud was. vested,should have the power, sought by. his amendniout to create freehold townships,. .He, wanted to, allow.' the- board itself without selling •to the Crown to go through,exactly the samo process as ' if they did sell to'the Crown. A great many of the section...holders would be glad to purchase. .':'-."'■ ■". Mr. JENNINGS (Taumarunui) said .he intended to move .a; sub-clause to Clause ,20,/"that the;-Crown'■ may sell any-' laud so acquired to any tenant/thereof, with the approval of ,the Maori Land Board 'or some duly constituted authority."'-, - Mr. .LUKE (Wellington Suburbs) .opposed: the amendment proposed, by Mr. Herries.'..'-. -'-,".: ; ; "■ . .':.-'; ■:■..■ ...' Mr. MASSEY said', the amendment .to be moved; by Mr.' Jennings -would not meet'the! case. If the Crown, did not in-tend-to purchase, the laud and 'the House did not put; in the amendment ;propbse(l: by Mr. Herries, J ,the' Bill was 'not! going to be of much. use., vThey had a very real 1 grievance in Gicymouth, and he hoped it would-be remedied; v . ! ■;• '""■'■ Mr.. RUSSELL (Avon) said it eeeined'■■ to him that the clause had been devised,to, protect, the. interests of the' Natives,! and he-hoped the Minister .would stick to! tho clause.' \ •■ '■■'. ■'.■■-.•.- : " ".''"■'•'. ■::■■••; Mr._ HENARE -•: KAIHAU ' ■'. (Western Maori) supported the amendment moved Mr.' PEARCE:,(Patea) contended I '-!.that:i it'would 'not be; satiGfactory: to •'• the 'Natives!, if .they ..could sell., only, -to: - ile. Crown.' What- would happen'was .that the Crown Would!offer r only. , half the] value and the- Natives-would not sell.'.' ■ i Mr:' OKEY; (TaTanaii).held .that.:to, strict-the purchasers would be -harmful to the -Natives. ■'!'. .; !■, ; -';','-, :-.,- - '-■; ; Mt. ELL (Christchurch South) declaredthat the'Greyraouth Native lessors, totalled. 400, and they;;wero, drawing a'pal try sum'-apiece.", V : : .'! •>..'• ':■■-.'-,■" -■'■'■ :--■■".'.'■. •:. Mr. ICAIHAU said, if the Bill wats passed ho. was certain, the ''House; wonld ;be inuadated with!/trouble:•■; and..-.'petitions] from! the wholo of the Maori .townships. "Mr.,:BUlCK'(Palmerston -North) •said the debate .had.' resolved itself into-the. time-honoured!'debate on,;; leasehold' .v. freehold: :•' He did ..not! think:they, .should' allow; this red. herring to be .drawn, across the .track. -He: was. .in': favour .of free trade ...in. laud.... It: did not- matter'.' to ■ the State so lom as. the; land ;,was sproduc-: tive.-,.He had ;no hesitationaii supporting Mr. Herries: .! :;• '.-' : - ,--i;------ -' ''"■'-- s , Mr. WRIGHT (Wellington South) said he would; support the'' Native! Minister. : in keeping the ..Bill; as,.it : stood.'-v He; had: heard - that'.' the; Government, : .had - purchased land'.;from; the Natives at.2s.. 6d. per - acre,;■ the- bush,-.-on whiCti' land '. was worth :>i6s . an!-acre. ;-:■-He!'thought the Government.'should pay.-a rate-for the: land! .:: -;; ':?:: y ;' After! further"'discussion,!''!!.-! •■'.' .•';"!.-. ~' The.Hon; :'J.vGAEE.OLL : ..pointed,.;out that ..Mr.- !Kaihau ■ had opposed. the'- legis'latioh::which,'had.!.brought the,.: Native townships .into, existence.-!. ,f ",:,.'■: '■ ■"• ; ,L .> .! Upon, a ; 'division, ;Mr. Herries's.amend-. ment was'rejected■!.by, 37,-votes-to-29.;';..: '■■ .Mr.!;-JENNINGS,-(Taumarumii) i'impved l as an,amendment;.-■ to'-.■-Clause. 20,. : a sub-' : clause to the :effect .that the-Crown; might sell, any land.'tb'-'ahy' tenant .'under: .alease granted' by \the',Native Land -Board or -duly-; constituted "authority, /and .that tenants.who. have occupied';and.'improved the land: should; have! preference! of'purchase'..:' •;- : : .\- i A',fj-%i\: >:"•/;;■ ;';r!; ; v-!::!' ;•■ " The sub-clanse'was Tejecte'd'by.a mar: gin of. only. four, votes,-; the voting! ibeing 84 votes to '30:— -;,';':.''';'; :,;,';. V.; !■-!:-' ■'■■ ■ THE. AMENDMENT,-:3b:!!:;';,;-ilien-'-: :•"■ ■' ''v:: * Anderson :' .'■..-' Malcolm, " ;'.!-,. Bollard/ •''.''.: ':Mahder- : ] r '.' ; :'•'•■'; Buchanan' ■••■•;■:■.' ■.-•■..■:-,?Massey..■;■;.-:■•■. ',;'::'.::; Buick: .'' ,'.'-' Newman "'o.',. Clark:';. ; : ! ':.!,-:,!.:■! ]!',Nosworthy:/-/::. ■:■ '■■: :% '•Divo'-:: : .'■■• ."'--'Okey';-';:,: : .'-!';--',--'- •Fraser -:', :'- Pearcs ;-.,■•'' '~;-': Guthrie. '!- ■'::.! .Phillippsi■'.'-.'.- : Hardy.- v-; ■' - :PolaMv, :•:;/! ,v!: •Herdman: .-■';; Eeed';,-..', .'•;!'',:,','.';,' "_:'■' Herries!;'.'--- ; > ■:■.;Scott: '■• , ..-.'■ ■-.' : ;;;!r Hine; .'"■''" '".'! ~Smith';,: :> Jennings : ; - ,'!',' -Thomson,/G..M.:- ~-■ Kainau •!.:•,!:'] - ;Wilford : vv;: - ; -..,-'-;;. '/ !. 'AGAINST:THE : AMENi)MENT^3I;c''/ : Arnold' - '"■:.-■ .'■ ■-..:" Macdonald.'•'•' !,•;'':,;' B.rbwn -! '! ,'! ! :; M'Kerizie,;Hon: R- , •Buddo ■' !! Mackenzie, Hon. T. " Buxton. '•'.. .;- - : M-Laien.:>. :-■! Carr'oir:. .',/-:: /-.Millar.;;.'.. -,: Craigie :'» : -. ':J "/ • Ngata•/;;:•,;;.:::•;/ ,Darey ' ' ■' \ " /Parata •• /: ;' :-'-' Dillon..' .!/;'!.-.- / Toole v'/-../:: :/ r / ■EU - .'- '/-VV-Russell!- 1 !'--:.'::.' ..-; Forbes ■-- Seddon; ' '..■.'-■-'■ -.'.•' ■ / ■Fowlds'■:.'.• /Sidey.; !V;',!/•.// 'Glover- ■':■■• ', tStallworthy;:/:•.;,/ i Graham- -v; • ,:-■ Hall! '/' -~''".--, -!:.! Taylor,'.T.:':B.-.' ;'.-'.-:■ Hogan- .:,' -"' Ward .:.://:.■'. Lawry; ■'•.-,-,- ■ ;--. -Witty . ;;;/■:; .-;■ '•;••. ',- Luke;: /;:/,.'-; >y - !Wright'-!:.:-,;i-:'//ri;! J - : - :!The!femaihing! 1 clauses; passed -through! without discussion.: After;the Bill had been reported the; House at .this stage,; 0,45 a.m., adjourned.'-•;:;.': ;/■/;: .';:. :■■/