PARLIAMENT.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 694, 20 December 1909, Page 3

PARLIAMENT.

MINISTRY DEFEATED.

RECORD LONG SITTING

MAJOR M'DONALD'S APPOINTMENT CRITICISED.

EDUCATION DEPARTMENT ATTACKED.

On-.- Saturday morning, after The Dominion tad gonQ to : pres3i the House, in Committce on itho^'EstfmatflS,:: continue^ .5.20 o'clock.'; Upon-resuming at. 10 a.m.,, tho; House yerit.~.pn i, 'nntil/;mianißht,'-'^hen , -°tto>.Chairman left tho chair' until 10 o'clock' this morning. The . estimatesVfor tho,following Departments •have-yet to -bo. disposed - of i-rAdvances ;to Sottlers,'Advances to Workers, .Public Trust, Government t-ficcidentVlnsurahce,'-' Government Lifo- • Insurance, , ami . Government: l'iro Insurance. ' ;

THE HOUSE. •••'v ESTIMATES .STILL" UNFINISHED. : After Tra | ijoMiNibs*.wSjt' to press on: Satur- / 'day'morning■ tho .\rote''o{"22GC,27l-for • tho; Internal Affairs .Deportment ;was agreed to. r : ;; ' :, .••• Protest Against Hours/ -;./. .; ;- Tho defence voto of X 202.618 was agreed to at 3 a.m. 1 ■ > ' ' ,' ~ Mr. :JIASBEY: then urged that . the, Houso i. ( should adjourn and meet fit'lo a.m. The Houso ,had been sitting, for 17;: hours- < - The PRIME MINISTER said ho wished to finish tho Estimates. ' '• .- Mr;->MASSEY 'said . the': hours which the, . House was sitting woro a public scandal. Attention was being, paid to it" in' the country. :'' It: was 'not; fair", to the, public to -transact ■ its business-in that wayi. ' The PRIME MINISTER said if the House ; ; adjourned "he did not see how they could get i through the'business by Christmas. Mr..MASSEY called 'attention-to tho state . of, tho House. / After .vainly inviting tho Primo - . Minister.:.to, do so/ .Mr. : Massey moved to rev . port progress:- ■ • . r"s.,; ■< ■ The motion was rejected by 31 votes to 16. Tho voto of .£3133 for' Customs was passed ■at:4 a.m. • ■ At 4.20 a.m.- .the total: vote of; .£128,790 for Marine and Customs was passed. . :

LABOUR DEPARTMENT. ; 'When 'the,-»Vose; for:-:the .Labour (w£25,928) was- under discussion .: ■ Mr.' . MASSEY expressed -his great. satisfaction with' 1 the sncccss to date of the new conciliation . system," especially as.; he' had: strongly nrged.a-conciliation 'systemiin- the. House.,' It was remarkable": that while': private industry had; been - kept :tranqnil by this. system ;thero had been ttonble among the State's employees. Tho moral vseomcd; : to :'be ! that- tho' conciliation system ' fjhould bo extended to State :industries. The Hon.. J. A. MILLAR saul- later that since the system,tfas,.introdnced,;Bs.per : cent, of disputes had. be?n settled by • it. -The vo'te-wos.agreed ta at 5.20 a.m% and'.the House: then adjourned till 10 a.m. ■'■'-'- LANDS.AND SURVEY DEPARTMENT.

•: .'UponHltho resumption :'of. the .' House ; (it ■ 10 a.m. ';''on ':Saturday; the Estiiriates in : connection with tho»liands and Survey- Department .-;..wcreVprtfceeded-'. ' Mr. HURRIES (Tauranga) urged' that the wh&lo,.of;Hhe.\mbneyi: votea : for :tho surrey; of ; ';Native lands' be oxpended-in'order to. facilitate ; settlement. . -A good deal- of land which had; been lacquired by the - Crown from j the ; Natives 'wasstill y tp.: the 'same \ condition' 1 when it was first bought. ' •The. PRIME MINISTER said that the saving . veffected in the DepartmcntiwasVi£2s,ooo. . Under/ >: the new Bill -.the „ ..'opening :up; "Native . land, wouid be done away with.' -During the; .next few, months the land to bb'set apart for landless Natives* would bo allotted. . Mr^'ALLsN".(Bruce)was of:'.opinion !that : .too' ;,!muchy. : riibne3r .^as.jspe£(t i - i: 'by^ll6^CHj^tjlnient* ... on, the, ■ would-, like to , know r the valuo of a book entitled :./'Making a'" Homo ih New Zealand," ■. for which "JE4Bwai"proposed to. lib paid -'- as half ..cost of printing. • , ; , Mr. BUCHANAN ; (Wairarapa).referred to.a .:; scientific report by Dr. Cockayne ! .o'n i "The •, sand- ' dunes of New- Z.ealand. J ''-'Nb doubt tho.author was v very ( high lip in botanical scicnce, but - in his opinion he■ had directed ■ his ofTorts quite •; uselessly>'to,- far ''as'Tpractical on this-' .question were ' ' Mr. Rhodes (Ellesmere), Mr. Hardy (Selwyn), -Mr. Thomson (Dunedin North), and the ~; Prime Minister '. referred in eulogistic -terms -to the valno of tho report. . " ;' v Mr. ; BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) held that, the -which; roads- were surveyed and laid . 'off by ;the .Government .could only ,be "described as' shocking, f -The;work>should ) 'be done by, the : best, engineers in tho eniplo.v-i.of the Dopartinent.. He .referred in ' particular ■ to. a road in' ' .his district. The PRIME, MINISTER, saul-ha would have ajeport/madeiin regard to the road .to which .. attention.,, had- 'been'-.drawn. . o»'.y v System of Afforestation. : , - Mr. -JAMES ALLEN. (Bruce) sought a state-' went. as ,to • the jiolicy. 1 .- of tho Government.- with reference toafforesitation:"?' He . said . he>.' apthe work,'if 'it were-properly done.: The,PRIME MINISTER said.that the work-..extended-allioyor -the'icbuiitryi,.: Last' year 'six vmillion .trew. wercplanted ;. since 189G, -4G mil- ; hon had been, planted. .The total : area - planted lastycar.'wasli.OOO acres, inakins a total since 1898 of. 164,142 acres. v : Mr. .:;MASSEST- : stronglyurged ' that the settlers, shqnld; bo encouraged to replant porllf n , s , , Ir . properties. It' was his opinion that trees should be'- given to the. farmers; on ~the that 'they! ; wouldvbe perly planted and cared for. • .-' A'.(Dunedin North); submitted ; ' J :;Dep'artmont'should be 'placed ill tho charge- of specialists, ' ■ v The e PRIME MINISTER siid that at the .end of each year the'balance of the"trees at . the . nurseries Cwere:. distributed' free." - It was'' impossible to , go in for. a system of freo distnbution. generally -,on - 'present : vote. To : v to tho proposal" that the Forestry theVha'ndsvbf ' sp.cciaUstswould: cost more money? '.-than the .; .Dominion, could; ; yet-afford. After a lively j discussion on ' the -Wanganui . river sorvice (re f ortert ;olsewhere) the .vote 'for tho Dopartment.jwas'. agreed - to. .. . .■STATE FORESTS'DEPARTMENT. V v Replying^to.:an : inquiry,, the .Prime Minister : saiu it ,h ad .been t'bimd/possible to out expenses -without; inter ferihg;iii any ' way with ■emcioncy; of. 4he , . No alterations: werV/inide • in ' regard to the .votes;Wr.;the': Department.>. * , LANID FOR SETTLEMENTS. '.In. regard to the voto for wotkmcn's homes," V i. that i homes ;.. buiit for, men :^ifhb. were not earning ; large salnnes. • •;//'. VX'he: ; Tpte to. ; ; ; v .' v ' ' SCENIC RESERVES, - Numerous requests'.werei mado for .the' setting : aside ,of>scenic reseryes;.wheh Estimates ot the . Department,' with .;thcse matters, • vrere • / . ,^ r V Suburbs) Tirgpd that the uOveriiment. shouJd.vassistUo .purchase" the Day s Bay bush. . - .»rr (OtaB) , recommended - purchase • ti. a L i "Cpy®!® l } hillside .behind Waikanae, hou sfctM°u cheaply.'sold by ■ Mr. Parata,. and, a busn oii road between ! and;Opper;Hutfe,- oiivprivately-owned: iand of little which 'ho thought could I i» reasonable •• price.- --vc' Air. _(l ! aumarunui) advocated re-1 serves along:-tho i l • 1 M le tj^^ U; n '& ?}^^VENZIE,; in replying, ; ' 8 ? ' i; had .been ap-1 ' -.for.'.tho land. • -M T -'' •} : this • matter. Very , , the j Government,- AnUlterni, ; tn?e proposal had been,- made ; to the owners, fe;,7^. :'' n ?' ! ' lns yet .'-been- received.' Avith regard to the ;iand;,behind AVaikanae, it should■ be possible .to: arrange with .the :- owner io_r ..the,preservation, of : the busii, tho ' land.rcmaimng.in: : liis possession. He .would visity and , tho bnsh : Hutt;- v Host ' along:.thi.Maain ; Jriink lino' had. : eifc ' ler rcsoryed.' or negotiations for its reservation wore- in progress'. • 7;'.. Dr. It^NGIHIIfOA., urged, Iho .-prsservation of -some jof /tha,historic "sites,'where the first Maori ,;anoes landed: . ThiY could be ' dono by : putting arfeMe , round .i.thom -'at very'small cost, , Mr. -IIUSSLLL (Avon) moved to reduce tho . lte P' . A 2500. eimpensation' for lands ac:,qaired along .the Wnnganiii River'-' by ,82499, \?S?!nst^tho:vattempt"to block ?r bußineßS at this .-stage- of. tho . ; f said. ;he',-\was ' oiie' • of those; who jrished t4) ;; soe . tho Dofenco Bill put • through ■ this session, .and his [speeches on tho AVanga-

nui River had occupied only seventeen minutes. , Also,, tin)' l'rime -Minister had stated that he would not go, beyond tlur Estimates that day. lliu - ameuiimcnt waslost: on the voices. ■ I'ho ,Voto' of,-dCIO,4SS for-scenery preservation was agreed to at J p.m. . .. AGRICULTURAL DEPARTMENT: . Tho Omission .of the , usual vote for the destruction rof - small birds was regretted by I AVitty (lliccarton) in discussing tho Estimates Agricultural Department, "tr. UiCEY (Tarnnaki) urged that the Gov- , eminent should try to introduce a",natural euemy of somo of the noxious weeds. Trado should he developed, with Canada, and ilio country's butter should be sold as.. New Zealand butter? He wished to know'if miirgarino was being manufactured in New Zealand. : Mr. RHODES (Ellesmere). moved an aniendment to reduce,'oy ill the vote of .£3775 for ineat" inspection, as a,, protest against the laxity with which the inspection of preserved meat .was -carried on. ' Mr. Rhodes said ho ' moved' the amendment merely ,to obtain information.' He read a letter from a Melbourne firm which had imported preserved, tongues from., a.; New Zealand firm, -imd ' found: them bad. -Ho hoped that the Ministor would bo able to clear the Department.; The Hon. T. MACKENZIE said the meat was quito fit for co&umption when it left.New Zealand. The 'Department''had nothing to do. .with the efficiency or. uon-cHiniency -of the method of '-'preserving.. No information .had yot beon received from Dr. Manson' regarding boneless .beef. An attempt was -being made to collect agricultural statistics more cheaply; and more accurately. The estimated, cost' was .£looo.' Homo sellers .were at liberty': to sell New Zealand butter 1 under any brand ' they' ; liked .to put; on it:' That' was a matter', which would'.require legislation by the British, Go-: vernmcnt. lie intended to have tracks, formed at proper ~ intervals- from Westland;: to the Hermitage, and huts erected. ; Mr. BUCHANAjj .(Wairarapa) said tho, positioii 'in regard to; the : bad toiigues was that thff inspector allowed - them to, go unbranded, and 'lio understood that the: New Zealand .vendor offered to send Zealand brand to Australia so that the -unsound meat might. :be branded there aiid palmed oil on to some purchaser. He, denied that there no ab-. normal increase of rabbits in the Wairarapa,aa reported by the Department's officers. The spread of rabbits was .evon more, important: than tho spread of noxious weeds.,- v.- j ■ Mr.'. HOGG (Masterton) .said: that. in : the Masterton .district settlers ', complained ' that they could'not get a: rabbit,for dinner, r >' Mr. RUSSELL (Avon) submitted that the amount -for' travelling expenses' in .connection, •with . the Department, had been,. oicessive, ; in the past. ' ■ V.'. -,- • . '■ .. . , . ; Value of Oversea Agcncies. ■ Mr. HERDMAN (Wellington-North) inquired for particulars with reference to . the - item: "Canadian 'steam trade service subsidy .£4800."' He said'that last year ~£10,000• was voted, in. I that regard, and:>E7loo expended.. Would • the' Minister state avhether any,,contract had been 1 entered into, and if so, what .were; the terms? Then, again, 1 he would like to,'know something about the item "oversea agencies," for which -£2fißs' was., proposed to bo spent this, year. He did not favour keeping up of expensive ' oversea' agencies. It niight bo possible -for the work to be done af the oversea offices of. tho. Union' Steam' Ship .Company,' Cook's, etc.; The IIINISTER replied that: the vote tor the Canadian servico was, to close the ; existing, contract. '' Mr.. Massey Are', the boats running .now ? Sir Joseph Warn: No. • . ■ Resuming,, Mr. Mackenzie said, that the '.oversea agencies resulted in. an enormous of traffic finding its way to New -Zealand. It was felt that tho offices ;must .be.'.well. appointed.: . ;•■': : - Wellington-Tahiti Service Again, . • Mr- GLOVER (Auckland Central) again took exception' to tit© vote' for the W€llington-Ta\ hiti service (portion of which came under the Estimates -for this .Department),-; and .--moved that tho voto be reduced by>Cl as an indication; .tliat it vas'not 'satisfactory. .... .. -V, ; • ; The amendment wits rejected by 46 wotes to 17.' Tho Hon. T. Y. DUNCAN (Oamnm) hupea that, 'more would "be :;dono to provide treatment v for, the poorer. classes_ (especially- old pioneers) at -Rotorua and similar institutions. '■The, Hon. A. ;R. GUINNESS: (Grey) , also, urged' that something, more should at once be .'done-'in this direction. : ' v.'-, " '-■ i;' ; .;• . : '..The,:MINISTER t said he.desired:to.see more accumniodafion':, l at--lliS3e ference ; had'.heen iaaUe 'for pbdfer' 'people.'; That was his' opinion for; two reasons—(l) -that'it ,'relieved ~ suffering,'f and (2) - that it - restored'- to iusefulness many-.- workers.:,VtHe was moving in that : - direction lat..th6,:present time..;■ Position of Trade Representative. . Mr. MASSEY referred ;to ; the vote,' for ; the. officuil holding the office of Trado Representative. He said that the mercantile community of opinion that, the'officer did not earn the isalary 'which lie' received.' Had lie-been lotrenchcd. or-was.' he to-be ietrench«l? : The! MINISTER said his term of office had' been extended for-six months. . Mr.'Massey:" What is to happen then? ..■Mr.,- Mackenzie:;; Cabinet has;. not- yet;decided/: : ' ... '. : ' - '■•/'' i. : . •'.'Mr- 'Massey: What is ho doing now? 'Mr/ Mackenzie: He. has just';returned.-from the "Islands iii regard, to the trado of -which he is drawing up a report. ~ - -,i.j,, •' Mr. .Glover: ,What: did lie .go to tho Islands ...Jin'. Mackenzie: It''was thought that, .;lhe trade with -Tahiti lfas 'not so. large as it might be. . /,; As ,he was under notice,-it was folt bis services should -be utilised.- . His : report- should 'be.ready,before the-Houso rises. Mr. Glover: If it is not satisfactory, I will have-.tho matter brought up. : '; , The total vote'was'then: agreed to.-'' ' EDUCATION 'DEPARTMENT—COST: OF • ' HEAD .OFFICE. . ; When tho"; Estimates for- the . Education: Department were under, consideration : ; ■ , Mr. -RUSSELL (Avon) moved to reduce the item,'. "InsDector-General of Schools - /£750" as an indication'that the cost of tho'head'office was too .great. . He.said that five years ago the salaries' in: connection with the office totalled 0:4711, whilo to-day theyj aggregated' i£8525. -Then again in 1904 the Department ,wasrun with 'nine clerks and 13 cadets,, whilst today there were 17 clerks, and 22 cadets in the Department.: If the undue growth of the Department were not checked' the Department was going \to bo a huge, octopus.''-As a 'result; of' adding :one subject ;and another to the syllabus; tho primary system of education' was not. nearly so good and effective as it was ten:years ago." ■: : : ' ':-./• Mr. GUTHIIIE (Oroua) said that the Education Department was going to; give a•- better return .than-any of the; other Departments. During l the past .five years it had to bo remembered that manual and technical education had been'established. : ,'V. '■!; ■ Tho Hon. G: FOWLDS said, that during the !past . five .. years tie free-place system had, grown up.',', Then'.again, as Mr. Guthrio had said, -a-great, deal- of ;work ■ was. entailed .in ionnoctiou withthe . manual:. and . technical education system. . Other increases in tho work were; clue to' the classification at : industrial schools; to the altered method of payment 'of teachers; to the alteration of the system of making-grants for buildings, etc.; toVthe institution of the training . colleges.: on a how-system; and to the fact that; the work iu connection ivith examinations had;increased .threc-foH. ' , > The . amendment -was rejected uiianimously. ■ Mr. MALCOLM (Clutha) moved td reduce the' item "Two .assistant: inspectors at JC4IS" as an'indication of the dissatisfaction, of the House at the double-banking of inspection. He said that ,in spite of the good, work done by the inspectors .to tho boards,'the inspectors'in question were sent round to .do merely 'perfunctory work. The vote was unnecessary except 'as regards high schools. It .was- his opinion that, the rights of boards .were being infringed. , The amendment was-defeated by 47 votes to 15.; Protest Against Contralisatiori. s ' .7, : ?.Ir;-::MALCOLM (Clutha) moved that the vote'-of-'£503,000 for. grants to education boards. b« reduced by as a protest' against the ,tendency, on tho part of the Department. towards centralisation., .;. Mr. MASSEY supported the;, amendment, hoping that,it would be carried, j,'' i'ho Hon.' G. I'OWLDS emphatically; challenged any momber -or any borti-d to point a single item in which there had been a tendency towards centralisation that. had not been, in-; sisted on by; legislation or reports of-, the- Education Committee. -'If/for.'instance/tho Houso was prepared to say that every application for a buildme should be agreed to, then it would mean that a voto of another .£IOO,OOO for the purpose; would be-required. : .'' I\U'. BUCHANAN (Wairarapa) strongly' supported the amendment. ' ; Mr. HANAN. (Invercargill) justified the policy of the Department. Some boards' had appropriated money, for purposes not authorised by the Act. '- Tho item was retained by 33 votes to 23.". Free Text-books and Uncertificated Toachers. , , Mr.; ALLEN (Bruce) -moved that the, item, •'"free - school; books, '£i 00," should bo; roduced by XI, as an " indication that tho - capitation should be renewed instead of free books bein" supplied for tho few. • . . . , : , ' The amendment was defeated by- 42 to 14.

>„,^ r '.GUTHRIE (Oroua) moved that tho item. Conference of educational authorities, X'i'iQ, "°, jeducod by XI as a protest against the cutting-olf of the special capitation allowance to boards on average attendance. The amendment was rejected.on the voices. LUKE (Wellington Suburbs) regretted that tho capitation in regard to the commercial classes at tho technical schools had been cut down.. He trusted that the Minister would take into consideration the fact that the Wellington Technical School ivas very, cramped for room. Hon. G. FOWLDS: I will look into ;tho nlatter. Mr. MASSEY inquired if it were a fact I hat all the uncertificated teachers were finding their way to the country schools. If it were 60, it was a very serious matter. It would appear that the number ~ of uncertificated teachors was' increasing. The Hon., G. FOWLDS said that if the E certificate was still ..being issued, the bulk of the uncertificated teachers would hold certificates. . Mr. Massey: The number of certificated teachers seems to be 'decreasing/ That is more extraordinary still. ■. . .Tho Hon. G. Fowlds: A number of the female teachers are getting married. ■Mr. Massey: But the number of women teachers is increasing. ' Air. Fowlds: Yes, still some are going out; " Tho discussion on tho promotion of Major M'Donald to the position of head of the School. Cadets is reported under another heading. The total vote for tho Department of ,£873,530 was agreed to. . i. At midnight the nouse adjourned till 10 a.m. to-day.

GOVERNMENT DEFEATED. FOR THE FOURTH TJME. A MINISTER . AND A PETITION. The Government suffered their fourth defeat :of the session on Saturday night, a division resulting against them on the subject of the Crown Suits Act, in regard to which the Government narrowly escaped defeat when it was made, the subject of a division some weeks ago. This time the question was raised when the-Estimates for the State Coal Mines Department wore, under discussion. -Mr. Field (Otaki) moved that the first item "salary of General Manager, .£600" should be reduced by ,£1 as an indication that either the Crown Suits Act should bo waived to allow the Farmers' Distributing Company ■ to' take action against the Department, or that their case should be submitted to arbitration, as recommended by a Committee of the House. : The Chairman ruled that the amendraont could not bo .discussed. ■ . Mr/Massey read a petition which had'been addressed, he said, by certain members of Parliament to the former Minister for Mines, and which was dated October 10, 1908, to the effect that the Minister should' agree ,to refer the dispute botween the Farmers' Distributing Company and .the State Coal Department to arbitration. ' ■"It is signed," said Mr. Massey, "by— y The Hon. R. M'Kenzie:. Point of order •iThe Chairman: I have already ruled that you cannot discuss the motion. i Mr. Massey: I have read the litter. One of the signatures is that of Mr. R. M'Kenzie, member for Motueka (Mr. Massey pointed with his finger to tho present Minister for Mines). (Laughter.) . -... Mr. M'Kenzie: .It is "not. ' The. amendment was then put to a division, and the Chairman , announced; the result:* "Ayes 30, Noes 28, the amendment is carried." ■ Sir Joseph- Ward: \Vero not the Ayes 28 and the Noes 30? . : The Chairman again examined the division lists,- and stated that he' had announced the result correctly. ' : Following was the division list :— "i.' ; .. . Ayes, 30. Allen Sine- . Anderson ... Hogg , Buchanan. . '. Lang ' , ' r Buick ' .Luke •' ' . Clark ..- Malcolm .. Craigio Mander ■ '..' Dive Massey • Duncan, J;'--. Nosworthy . .'Fisher'- ' ... .Okey .. 'Forbes . , ~ - '•■' Pcarco . -/Eraser • Phillipp.i ■ '.'■ Guthrie. Rhodes / lHanan _ . '' , Scott Hardy ' Thomson, G. M. i Hemes . i ,■ , .. Noes, 23. i.' Arnold M'Kenzie, Hon. R. ) Buddo • .! Mackenzie/llon, T. • Buxton -Ngata Carroll : . * I'arata Colvin ■■ Poolo . Ell • ■ Roed Fowlds 1 Ross Glover- Sicddon Graham Smith . •Hall i Stallworthy Hogan ■ i . Steward ■ laurenson''. j ',_ .Te.Rangihiroa . . Lawry .' ■; ' ; : ' Wtiril: ' •Macdonald . .Witty.