THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 691, 16 December 1909, Page 5

THE HOUSE

HOSPITALS AND CHARITABLE INSTITU- '.:'-, ■-■■ : .:.V'■ - : n'ons":"silL. -y; ; ':;.'..: '-. The House was. occupied all yesterday afternoon with formal business, and the discussion of i answers to questions. In the evening report of the manager's -who conferred with representatives ■ of ■-. the Legislative Council with regard to alterations of -the- Hospitals', and Charitable Institutions Bill was received.". .'Tho .report modifies Clause 66A, • which gives teachers .and students ,of :a medical;school access to hospitals.. Clause 69 (1) is amended ■ to read as follows':—"A Hospital and Charitable Aid Board'may contract for.tliepaym.enc to it, by-'any., other Hospital and Charitablo Aid Board,-separate institution, body corporate, registered friendly society, ■ registered. branch of a'friendly s.oc,iety, or other society, or - person, of.the cost of auy-relief to-be aft'ordod bythe first-mentioned,,board.to ,any, -person, and the ainount.;So- agreed, to' be.-paid,"; or a reasonable, sninif no ispeciiip amount is-sp agreed-jupon, shall W a debt'-recoverablo'in- any, "Court of competent;, jurisdiction.":- -The specific ,references to .friendly.,societies form the addition to tho clause. The amendments.-madovby the Council, striking, out Clauses 71 and 72—the latter of which .states'-that' boards', may make, ragreeme'nts: -for ~spcciai, 'as Jo- 'maintcn•inee- in hospitalsjof; mcmbers-'oWri-endly.-socie-ties—are agreed to. - "--.-. '■-'-.' : .'" ■ ! Mr. HEKRIISS (Tauranga) said he did not "think tho clause.in: regartl.tb friendly societies carried out- the wish ■ of .tho House, which was that the boards should bo ablo to make special agreements, so that friendly. societies : might come in at a cheaper rate, - or: contract for special beds,,etc." ■:-•''- ,-.i ~-.-.■■::■-.-'". /.The Hon. G. FOWLDS said that--allthis could bs done under the amended clause. .-', .Mr;: Hemes still.thought that special contracts could, not be made under : the now' clause. ..-■;"::-. . ' ' , Mr..- DAVEY (Christchurch "'East), said that the managers who held the conference had obtained lcgaL advice on the point, to the effect ■that all tho powers of the original Clause 72 could bo exercised under tho new provision.' ::.-;-, ;: V;,, ; COAL': MINES; BILL;;;;:,, . , :' In-md'ving for the committal of the Coal Mines Amendment Bill, . .The Hon. ■ R. M'KENZIE stated, with; regard to Clause; 3, whichiproposes, that a medical: examination shall not be required on; employment in mines,: that ';if a medical examination was to.: become a; qualification for emSloyment,' half of , the. .working,men "of- tho lominion would be thrown out of employment.. -...'■Mr. MASSEY, took-exception to: this-state-ment, which, .he said, seemed to him to be;a libol on .the working: men of. the Dominion. It meant that half of' those men "would not be able to pass any reasonable examination. From' his knowledge of the working men," he thought that .nt; least 99, per. cent, of them would pass an examination. This clause was to meet the difficulty which had cronped up in regard to Clause 10 of-the , Public Works Compensation Act last year. .:>:.'::. ■ : Mr. ■ M'Kenzie said that .Clause. 3 had a general'application. ■ -Mr. Alassey:'.-' But; does it not depend on Section: 10 of the ' Compensation Act? -.-. Mr.. M'Kenzio:,As far: as, this, Bill is concerned'it, does not. Mr. .Massey: Well, I think it is intended to meet it.: Last year thero had been ■ very, considerable discussion in regard to the Workers' Compensation Act. Several medical authorities had expressed the opinion that, in inserting the word pneumoconiosis in the Act of last year a mistake, was made. Pneumo-. ,coniosis, they said,, was not a'miner's' disease. One authority .stated thatin 60 per cent, of cases' what -'was ■ called pneumoconiosis < was really tuberculosis' of the Jungs. - ; Mr. COLVIN (Buller) " congratulated the Minister' on the .'Bill. If miners -were to bo subjected to'an examination' so should .other classes of workers. Many >of ■■ the ; members of the House would be. disqualified if. an ex-, animation was hccessary : in their case. '■'■>• , The'MINISTER said the clause had nothing to dp with the disputes' which happened last year in regard to pneumoconiosis. ; -V'.-:'-". On tho Bill being committed,-■'*' ••': .-'; Mr; HERDMAN (Wellington North) said that Parliament had had very, little informa-, tion regarding .the. recent strike' on the ;Wcst Coast, He would be obliged if the Minister would stato whether the Government had acceded to tho miners' demands, or whether they bad decided to go back to. work without any special conditions: being, arranged. • The MINISTER saidho could say no more than that the men had.gone back to work, and the terms were to. be arranged as soon iishocould get down.to the Coast., The Minister'moved to add a new, clause, which v/as adopted, as follows:—"For the purposes of the principal Act' employment in and about: a 'mino includes "employmentin connection with any operations carried on in-respect of workings of , that mine."' ■! ■ '■ ''■■■■ :■•-Mr,'ANDERSON.(Mataura) and Mr.'.ALLEN (Bruce) objected:,that this would include workers on the railways and others who were not ;;miners,' and'' they; would be entitled: to heavier compensation.' \ ■•'-.'•' ,'.': Mrl M'ICENZIE said he would: accept any reasonnblo proviso to" exempt tho workers re-forred-to. ~ ..-,',::.,'* ■;.-: Mr. : LUKE urged tho inclusion of employees ih-.any'workshops or engineering establish- , mohts connected with the mines. , 'The clauso Was agreed to, with the:addition of a proviso exempting carters and railway surfacemen.. ■ ■""'.'--'-.U, Claims for .Compensation. " ,; . Mr. COLVIN moved tho following • ■ new clause:—"ln ariy.action brought by a lrorkman against the owner of a ihino for" injuries l sustained', the, amonnt to which tho workman may -be entitled under Section 80- of the principal Act -from : tho sick and ■ accident fund or coal-minors'--relief.-fund shall (notwithstanding anything in Section 55 of tho Workers' Com..penSation Act, -1908) not be taken:, into : consideratiosi,in assessing damages'."': Mr. FR-ASEB; .(V said- that if clause .was passed, Sj, -ea would be-able to" claim under.><* : ' '" Compensation Act,

and -also from.,' the fund specially levied on ; owners to provide for sickness and accident. ■ Ho asked tho Minister's opinion on the elanso. The MINISTER said it was a sort-of doublebarrelled clause, but ho saw no great objection ■ to it. Ho would-leavo it to the judgment of the.House; .-'. •• . _Mr. POLAND (Ohinemuri) spoke in support of the. clause.' ■'.Tho; MINISTER, after further discussion, stated that the accident fund was not provided by tho owners. It consisted of a royalty of Id. a ton on-bituminous coal and Jd. on brown coal, that was collected by the owners and paid to the State. Presumably, the peoplo who got the coal paid it. There might be very rare cases in which a miner who was sick yould he better off than if he was well, but that'could only bo if ho was a member of one or moro friendly societies. He could not draw more than 12s. Gd,«\ week out of this fund. Ho did not anticipate that tho new clause would havb the slightest financial effect on the proprietors. Mr. HERDMAN (Wellington North) said clearly a miner was entitled to two sots of compensation. Ho did not see whv a miner was entitled to anything more than an ordinary worker in the country. The fund was established by the mine-owner; there was nothing in the Act to say that the miner should contribute to the fund. ': Mr.,M'LAREN spoke in.favour of the new clause, which was agreed to.■ clause, was moved by Mr. Reed (Bay of Islands) to permit of prospecting for coal on kauri gum reserves. ■••'-. Mr.; MASSEY thought that no license for prospecting'on, kauri gum reserves should be granted before it had been considered by the Crown Lands Commissioner and local authority of the district. Mr. ALLEN moved to add a proviso' that tho local authority should first be consulted. Mr. REED said he did not object to the proviso, though he did hot consider if necessary.- There was nothing in the clause that could retard the kauri industry.'' . , •The MINISTER opposed the -provisc. The Bui would be safer if it was not included. The amendment was carried without the pro- ■ visp. Crown Suits Act Again. Mr. HERDMAN moved an amendment to put-.the State Coal Department in the same position as a private individual in respect of claims for. damages, the Crown Suits Act not being allowed to operate. The MINISTER raised a point of order that this was an amendment to the Crown Suits Act and foreign to the Bill under discussion. .Mr. MASSEY pointed out that an oxactlv similar c ause was inserted in the State Guaranteed Bill. . '•■:-.■■■ ...The CHAIRMAN ruled that the clause. was not foreign to the Bill, but it was out of order,.sine© it increased tho liability of the Crown: He was -Billing to,have his decision referred td.the Speaker. • . ■ Mr.- MASSEY moved to report progress to taco the Speaker's decision on the ruling. He asked, that the Minister :should support his motion, as if the House did hoc agreo to refer such questions to ■ the Speaker, it was simply a: case of tyranny by the majority. He had never opposed a motion for that ournose MINISTER said the unesHon of the Crown. Suits Act was too important to bo dealt with in this connection, and he must oppose the motion .to report progress and appeal to.the Speaker. . ■ . The motion,to. report • progress' was rejected by 37 votes to 31. A Second Amendment. .-ilr; MASSEY then moved an amendment in the' same regard, but; providing .that all costs and charges m connection with litigation of the.kind' incurred by the -State should be' paid ont-of moneys to be appropriated by Parliament. ■..'■-.:.-,■;■ . -. . . . . The Hon. R.-JTKENZIE raised two points of order—(l) that the amendment was the same as the one already ruled out of order, and (2) that it contained an appropriation. • Mr/ MASSEY contended' that motions of the kind had frequently been declared to bo in order. - . ... The'Hon.'J. A.-.Millar:'.Only by th'e present. - Speaker. ■■■'•[ .-'■ Mr., ; Masscy: You are reflecting ■on Mr. Speaker. '■ . . .... The CHAIRMAN ruled 'the'amendment out of order on. the.ground.that it created a contingent liability,' which would necessitate the introduction of- tho clause' by Governor's Message. ■-'■' •■ ■'"■■".■■ .-'■' ■-' - ; Mr. : MASSEY again .moved that progress .should be reported to enable tho Speaker's ruling to betaken on, the'point: Ho said that if Mr. Millar voted against his proposal ho would bo very inconsistent. Members appeared to bo getting very caroless with rcforenco to their privileges. •' ~ .'•''.- Ethics of Amendments. .■■ Mr.' Millar':' If you want an amendment to the Crown Suits, Act you ; ought not to try, and get it made by:'way of another "measure. In no part-of tho world ;.would an. amendment be allowed to .be mado to an Act in tho manner proposed— ~ : ,',-■ , ■ "-.-.-.. >• ■ •;.'■■ Mr. Massey: You are again reflecting on Mr. Speaker. ■ ';. ' ' ■ Mr, Millar: We are coming toithat.stage in this xountry that no one knows where to look ■ for an 'amendment to an Act. ■ Mr. Herdman"(Wellington North): Supposing anybody wanted to ' know his, rights concerning tho State coal-mines, whero would he look? '-. " - .'< :■■■•. ■■■; - .-'-;"■ Mr. Millar: In the Crown Suits Act. ■'■;,'•• L Mr. Herdman: Nonsense. • Mr. Fisher (Wellington Central): Why, in the Shops and Offices Amendment Bill this year- you propose to amend tho Licensing Act. (Laughter.) . '■ ■-..■..-.-- , - Mr. Millar: No. ' ', Mr.. Fisher (amid laughter) read a clause' fronrthe'Shops and Offices Bill in support of his contention.: Mr. Millar: But tho Bill is not passed yet. .(Cries of "Oh!" and-laughter.); ';■-■:■■".■-.■;. ■-•'Mr. Taylor (Christchurch North) hoped'that on such a point members would not voto according to. party. .:. -.'- ■■■' ~. ■- Upon a. division tho motion to repi.'rt progress, was rejected by 37 votes to 32. The division list was as follows:— ■'V. -;' ; " '.';■"'' .-.'.'■ 'Allen . \, ; j ..McLaren . v. Anderson.'.,'.".: .: .- 'Malcolm. ' '.•■-, '-'. • Buchanan ' . Mander.-' Dive - ■;':.:-.-..; Massey;.-- '■;■ ••■ . Duncan, 3,' Newman.; ."-.•- FiekT •'■ Nosworthy Fisher '..-''*:'' '■ Okey, ', Fraser Pearce .'-.-' 'j Guthrie'. '-.-; -..'-'.- Phillipps Hanan ' - '■:, Rhodes . •;. Hardy-:', Scott \ Herdman . , Sidey. '■ Herries ' ' Steward • . . ffihe , ■'. Taylor, T. E. ,: " ' -Lang : . -.'.,. Thomson, G.M. , Luke ' Wright' '■■ ;'.,''■.-■ -.''.'■ koes,''37. '-' ; :'■:.'.-,.''•'..■' Brown . Macdonald /Buddo M'Kenzie, Hon. R! Buxton , Mackenzie, Hon. T, Carroll. , ' MUlarColvin . Ngata Craigie" : . ■ .Parata' ~-'■' Dillon ,■'•■■' Poland •Ell': •:-. ..Poole ■'.'.. Forbes V Reed ...:' Fowlds'-.'■" Ross •'< '. ■ .■.'.' Glover ' Bnssell'i'-■'.';■; ■(-..: Graham. r Seddon ' \.,. Greenslado •''■■' Smith '■■'■'.' / ■Hall .'.-:■-■:• , Stallworthy iflogan Taßangihiroa ■ 'Hogg ; : \ Thomson, J. C. V - Jennings' :; 'Ward ~.',' Laurenson , ■ Witty f -'Lawry Motion for Recommittal. 'When, ultimately, progress was reported, ,';Mr.; MASSEY moved - that • tho Bill be: recommitted for the purpose of inserting as a nciv clauso tho nmondmontwhich :had just been ruled out of,order.. Mr. Speaker: Has the hon. member the consent of the Crown .to,move this? (Laughter.); Mr. Massey said that similar clauses which provided, that moneys, costs, or charges might bo paid out of moneys appropriated by Parliament had previously been accepted. > .The Hon. R. M'KENZIE moved'a..point of order that, as' the .clause had been ruled out of • order by i tho Chairman of Committees, it could not afterwards; bo ■aoce"plcd v by the Speaker. ■ '''■:'■..'■.:■:■•'.' '■-■;.■''.".:•.■■--■ , ThoSPEAICER upheld the objection, and .also! stated that _tho clause, could not be accepted because, besides allowing:for moneys to bo-ap-propriated by special appropriation of Parliament it might have tho effect-of ..allowing the Crown to incur a liability such-as an injunc-' tion or .other' order of • the Supremo Court if it were allowed to pass in,the form in which it'stood. .'.'., .''■•' ,' -Mr. Massey: I; am very pleased to have yourruling on the point. . The Bill was then read a third time. and passed,at 11.15 p.m. • • ■, .-■-■'■- PUBLIC WORKS AMENDMENT BILL . •^.•■•■ v - : <No. 2). ■'■;: -,;,.-_.,,.'; The Ecoond-reading of the Public Works Amendment Bill (No. 2) was then moved by the Hon. R. M'Kenzie, who did not, discuss the. provisions.' i; ''.--,' ■ Mr. MASSEY directed attention to Clauso 13,' which provides, that in certain ; casos ,tho Governor may cause a road, otc., to bo made or ropairod, and the cost may-be recovered from tho local authority. ;„■ It. allowed. tho' Minister. " to como along and spend subsidies granted to a local authority at his.own sweet wilL- :

Mr. M'Kenzio: It has been'the law. for a great many years. ' ■ . ■. Mr. Massey: But it only referred to one local authority. ... • Resuming, Mr.. Massey said be hoped tho clause would not ho agreed to. • , .'Mr. BUCHANAN (Wnirorapa) said that tho present Minister for Public Works'had in bygone years stood side by side with him in opposing clauses of a similar kind. : Mr. HOGG (Mastorton) supported tho clause. When works were not carried out, tho people had no one to appeal, to. Mr. Allen (Bruce): /They can appeal to. tho electors. Mr., LUKE (Wellington Suburbs) also ; discussed tho clause. The.MINISTER (in reply)- said tho clauso would bo particularly useful in such cases,as. those in which neither a borough nor ono of its suburbs would repair a dividing road; "■'■.•' The second reading of the' Bill was agreed lo on the voices. '• - '■ /.' ■■NATIVE LAND BILII ■ discussion'of the measure. In moving the committal of this Bill, The Hon. J. CARROLL said it was chiefly a consolidating measure. The Bill had received a closo over-haul at tho hands of experienced men who had had to do with the administration of Native legislation. For the policy of the measure the Government was alono rnspon- . sible. There were several stages through which Native land would have to progress from its original state when it was under customary title until it became. European land. Tho Native Land Court and Appellate Court were'continued, but alterations were made in the constitution of tho Courts, whereby tho judges .would be, freed from- a vast amount of detail work, so that they might devote the wholo of their energies to the more important branches of their work.\ The assessors were retained, but their association with the Court would depend on the discretion of-'the judges. He might also mention that the jurisdiction of the Court remained substantially the same. Area of Customary Lands. Important amendments were made in-respect of customary lands—absolutely Maori laud— and the fact that these lands totalled only. iOO.OOO ; acres' proved that the Native LandCourt had been - very active during the past few years. Upon partitions, the duty was now cast on tho Court to lay Out upon the land partitioned such' rood-lines (if any) as. if thought expedient. With regard to exchanges,' the provisions- had been made as elastic as possible. An important departure had been made with respect to surveys. In futiiro, tho cost of. surveys would be chargeable on the land alfected. -After dealing with other features of the Bill, Mr. Carroll said that during the recess the provisions of a new Native Eating Bill would be settled. It would bo. ono of the first measures to be dealt with by thoGovernment next year. In view of tho. growth of European population, and tho development of settlement in the North Island, tho question of rating had become a burning question. . Ho was anxious to take. tho first opportunity- to deal . with tho subject. Views of Mr. Herrics. ' Mr.- HERRIES (Tauranga) referred to the stupendous task which the compilation of the Bill had involved. Consolidation -was very good, but something more was required : in order to settle Native lands. Tho question of alienation was a most important part of the Bill as far as the Europeans were concerned. What was wanted'was some means whereby the Europeans could secure Native land at a reasonable price. The Governor-in-Council was very largely done away.with as far as alienation of Native lands was concerned, and this was a great advantage.- Tho-great thing that would- prevent alienation was to prove that the Nativo' was not landless. The Native might have plenty of land, but it required a great deal of searching of : registrars in different places to prove it. Ho had urged an amendment to. enlarge.the definition of landless, so that it should not: apply to a-Native who had a ' trade ■' or calling adequate for his maintenance, or who had European land.' He understood a clauso would be brought down to.some- . what mitigate, this position. ' Ho was glad that for tho same timo tho same disadvantage with- regard to. alienation,, applied to tho Crown as .to ; private ■ purchasers. AH orders,of,,the Court and other documonts.had.to be registered'in the Land ■Transfer Office,-and; in-.future it .might bo much easier, .to.find.out,.what Natives had, Need of a Doomsday Book. •'..'' ■> •■'..■'"■••; . It was surprising that in all theso years the Department had! nover compiled a Doomsday book of Nativo, ;lands. - Two or three, clerks could have.kept it going; and they would have known what every -Native, owned. If tho half, million which the Government proposed to spend' was spent 'judiciously it would make a largo increase;'-of. land for'settlement.', Ho was glad that provision -was' being made for' tho roading of tho land when purchased. The pro-, visions of the Bill were excellent if they .'wero only carried out.' With'regard to. the lands recommended by the Nativo Commission for settlement,; a better system of: cutting up and arranging for settlement than that provided 'by the Bill could not be devised. Tho land would be cut up equally, for lease and for sale. Ho believed it would, bo-a real difficulty, however, that no money l would be given to tho Maori land. Boards for surveying and cutting lip the land. He hoped that that would *be remeo v ?d. Although, tho commission reported two ytjrs ago not n single acre of the lands dealt with had been settled by Europeans. Life Should bo put' into the Machinery, ' ; ■/Tho.Bill was right enough so far as drafting was concerned, but it needed to have the'breath of. life put into the machinery. Under the Bill; more freedom was given .to tho courts and boards. Without money nothing could'bo dono.to start elaborate machinery in tho Bill. He believed in adoptirigla policy which would make the .-Natives more fitted' every year for government under the European law. Thero could be no doubt but that the educated Maori would welcome such provisions. As it was he was beiug more and moro driven back into the old communistic system, which history showed would never induce _ civilisation. He did not agree that tho,Maori must be a farmer. The educated Maori was capable of taking almost any position alongside the pakeha'.. When that was so, he should-'not be .placed under rostric.tions all tho time'in regard to disposal of his lands. „■',.' 7 i • He hoped that the germs of a. policy of making the Native independent, which he saw in Clause 206, would yet bo allowed to develop by the Native Minister. He' belioved that tho. Bill would greatly simplify tho -procedure in tho Nativo Land" Court, and to somo extent, but not to tho extent that was expected, it would promote settlement. Europeanising the Maori, Mr. REED (Bay of -Islands) said he considered that the objective of a good Nativo policy should bo the Europeanising of tho Maori, and that had not been tho-policy of tho last fifty years. The policy,, had been to treat the Maori as n child. The' Natives were just'as capable'as Europeans of. looking after themselves and advancing in this world. He strongly objected to the; system of _ leasing Native land. He intended to move in Committee for the abolition of tho Native Appellate Court. The decisions of the ordinary. Nativo Courts, gavo very general ■ satisfaction to tho Natives, and thero was power to appeal to tho Supremo Court on.points of law. If one or two Maoris were dissatisfied, and appealed to ; the Appellate Court, tho rest were dragged all over tho country and put to immense expense by. tho continued, litigation. A Nativo Lands Rating Act could not be brought down too soon.' A quarter of the Maoris in Now Zealand were, in his electorate. Messrs. Grcenslade, Jennings, Pearcc, and Smith spoko on tho Bill, which they recognised .as an improvement.. PUBLIC WORKS BILL Tho House then went into Committee on the Public Works and Nativo Land Bills. Mr. Massey moved at 1.15 a.m. to report progress. ■ '. ■ • ■ .■'•-. , Tho Hon. R.'-M'Kcnzie suggested that they should hnish tho two Bills in Committee. (Laughter.) ' ■ Tho motion was defeated by 31 to 23. Mr.'Massey again moved to report progress; ' but the motion was lost, and the-House went on with the Fublic Works Bill in Committee. (Left sitting.) ..' PROPOSED MIRAMAR RAH.WAY. Replying "to a question put by Mr. Luke, tho Government stated that tho extension of tho railway from To Aro to Eilbirnio and. Miraniar would bo a work of some magnitude, and, in view of tho. fact that the district is well served by electric trams; a survey is not at present looked upon as a matter of. urgency. Discussing; tho reply, later, Mr. Luke said that tho tramways met the position as' to passongor traffic to a large extent; but did nothing to cope with goods traffic' Tho industrial possibilities j n connection with tho land around Evans Bay could not be overestimated. When tho matter was beforo the Government'some years ago, the; then Minister for Public Works spoko in appreciative terms with'.' refcrenco' to the project. Thero wero . 2000 acres of building land affected, as against 1100 aci'osc which was what the city contained irbin it was laid out '-' .'