AGAINST COMPULSION.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 690, 15 December 1909, Page 8

AGAINST COMPULSION.

; DEPUTATION TO PRIME MINISTER; -:. FROM" THADES ':AND' LABOUE COTJNCIL. ■ ; : r -UKUERSTOpD." V:.' %■ ; : -f :a : ! deputation from" the Trades.' and Labbni ••; Council.-'.waited :on.. the. Prime Minister. '(Sir i Joseph Ward); yesterday, to protest against tho proposalß.in the diTcciion-.Df compulsory train- ! ing' in ' the, lnternai Defence Bill.. The depu- . tation consisted ; of: Messrs. D. ..' M'Laron, '' MJP.,:A. W. H. Hampton, P. Reyling, G.';rarland, and W. Williams. Mr. : , p; "also attended by invitation.'. L ':. , Mr. J). M'Laren, M.P., who introduced the deputation, said that provisions in' ; the Bill' were- regarded as trenching too' far on the-liberties; of the people. ~../.. . ■ Mr; P. J. O'Kegan >aid he opposed the Bill mainly- on account '■■ of ■ th 6 great expenditure iavblved." Seeing that the. great bulk of. the -■ people.:.were: under-paid - and ; over-taxed, it .w-nsjilqt. repsbnoble that at the instigation of ' an organised , minority of , agitators, the cost of defence should be increased to about half a 'million a year. He did not believe that there; was 'any fear of ,an invasion; Most of the newspapers,: for some inexplicible reason, •. woro.in tavour.of: the Bill, but when iad a ; emanated from tho news- ■ papers? The matter had not been beforo the ; country at the/last election, and he regretted that the Government had come down with these.proposals. ,- .■•'•.■' .., . . ' .. : : -.Rifle Clubs and: Volunteers ■ '.'Mr.,.Hampton.'urged that instead of the' , proposals in the Bill,; it .would have been ,- sufficient to give;moro encouragement to the •formation; of riile oltibs,.and. to make volunteering less " expensive to volunteers. He strongly objected to • the provision . that the ■ TOTritonils-"coulrt:!hflt.asked to volunteer for service outside'. New Zealand. >. ".. '^ Mr-' ; Williams" xonlidered.. that", compulsory training .would engender. a spirit of antagonism .towards.;the Government and the country; and ,tend,..to.•.drive someVof the best citizens,into other countries.:? Having .been Ger.many,,. fie'.-:knew,,.the" dissatisfaction, of,. the : peoplo and .the army-there in. regard to compulsory .service. Hia did not .believe that the ;.German iArmy^."was, as good ' a fighting force.as it-was said to be, "and he regretted • tho introduction..of 'the compulsory element \ into : the :..defence,,system: of this .Dominion. \;-"- ■- .:■■ S'm. Mr." \Hogg's- ; Vievvs/ : ; '•■;' .."■:■ ' ;■-. ; A; -W..; Hogg,; M.p ; ; 'expressed a stroh B objecbdn to any ; :system of /compulsion, vrhich he; thought .was. absolute ■tyranny,.'.:.if not crueltj-, to the youths 'of, thel'Dominion.'-The' expenditure: on/defence, was being increased at a, rate that the country could not ■ stand, and .lie; did not think that tho country was ripe for snehu sweeping change.. The Bill should be ,held until public opinion' had been .tested... So far as, ho could gather,, the newspapers;an,l yolunteor officers -wore. the. only, people in favour .of it.:. . ' ■•■' . ■ . •• ; Other members". of the. deputation urged that efforts shoulcLbe ; made m the direction of promoting arbitration .rather , than compulsory training.-It was also represented that if compulsory-. training": was provided Now Zealand would lose :a large, body of-immigrants who were leaving Continental countries because of the: compulsory system in force there'.' As to -the cadets it ; was.urged that, especially in'the teehnicdr school "years, 'their , .'.education .would S^^^'^T'- 2^! ,1 ?'' 1 * also urged, could be defended .in; the hour of trouble by the gen,eral..body,of;;its .citizens, who would be-pre--pared and able to fight in defence of their own, homes. .;■;■■■..-■;:■■ . ,■■■,:"■ -,-.■.■:- , . , ... : rH s ,a l? l^?!Es d r t^ ■' ihe ' Bill': meant pracfacaUy. the -introduction of .conscription ' and ..the dependence of citizenship: upon .military, service—a .yory,dangerous proposal.. , -',: v■:'■ '.'V ; /'Prime -Minister, in Reply. !■-.' ! ' : '■)[ 'im?*- Ifaf replyl- :said ; ; that, either,.the, deputation had<been misled as "to' the; in,..the Bill or they .did not .understand: it. No. one• could imairine' for a. moment that .the. Bill proposed to follow, ™ 0 ."wnian...system; it: ,was, idiotic: to : imagino ;-, ;"V7e were', not malin :JVew-'.Zealand,';.and'he was.surprised that "anyget : such;auidea ; . of'tho proposals.' lhe< Bill- provided, as far ;a? volunteering for service beyond. tho ,seas was concerned, only what had .been the law for years. They had a ■*?-'.to.. perform,whichVithey could not shirk and 'i.'they, the db-nothihg policy suggestecb,. ; very .soon find some..'other,,. ' country than -Great 'Bri?w 4 S. e B -1 U .distinctly-stated that no part of the.Territorial force should bo liable to::servo ontside. New .Zealand,. .As to compulsion,, he remarlieu that there-had. for years been compul-' sion in'the schools inregard-to militarytrain-\ ing, and. no father and mother,: as 'far ■as he know,>had tabeij;exc9ption to it" ,: :..' . : ■;,.Mr. Hampton: I. know several , are 'not .in the.cadefe...:,.,:.:.; ..;,:■:■ -..,';- .-■•.< • ■ .Joseph. Ward:'l .am' speaking of. the law." Ihero has been no.difficulty, as far as the laW i s . c ?P. c^ d Aij^ ;^ad n ? ' fear of, inyasion,' iput if; the Old .Country was beaten in a : war the victors might easily'feel inclined 'to: take vNew-.Zealand as.part ofltheir possessions, aridfor, that.'reason, in 'duty, 'to V their "wives ami .children, they had' to ensurb the supply: of >a reasonably!.well-traiied , force, ready for use in snch_.an. emergericy..;: The .'proposals' contained had been ;before 'the country ever since'tho-Budget'.was'published, and from/ all .parte'.of';the'.cpnntry".and:■ from all sections of x the public, he had received rommirnications congratulating.,,the,.Government •. on. its'' proposals.- :; ; ' r -S-K^'"..' : .v"M[inr'e / of/.yolun'teering,-; ; : :; ." taken a very special'interest in voluuteering formariy/years, and had come.to the' ponclusionthat it had failed. '■..'■■ '■■'■ ■":■■ . ~: ■■ ■ .Mr. 'Hampton: .Too expensive to' the men. ' '-•'■'■ .; -'.-.Sir Joseph-.Ward It. has been very expensive ;to the country, andlwemust have some change. .This, is the'change ;.' : ' ,"- Mr.' Hogg:..'lt .■ has-been nearly starved' to .death;"/;;;. .' . '. : ... ';"..■.-. .■'■•".;' '■■■■.-■'. ■■ - \ ,'Sir Joseph : Ward: As a : . matter. of fact, there has been agi'eat deal of money spent in volunteering..,..They,','did- not ask the'men, to undergo the training for nothing. They would be paid:direct. 'What they wanted to aim at in'vNew Zealand, without going! in for a sys-. temSof universal compulßory training,.'was a moderate systein.by which they would ensure . that .whatever: they had',in' the, shape of de'fence ;ehbuld be '■'._ epcient. He did not want a system , of militarism: to,grow up'in New. Zealand,, and they would find that under the system proposed . by' the. Bill that could not arise. : :Australia,and othericountries weregoing in for similar .systems; on .a . more extended scale. It really did seem to , him that, the deputationdid not'Undetstand what was proposed^ by the , Bill. : '; The would '.-be''the.-siifferers. ; !by 'any attackion-New Ze'alandiand the'Bill was as:much',.ih i the;-interests \of. the' workers as of any other class of .the community. It was far ■better..:'to .'spend , ; a year, extra in preventing -war breaking, out ..than to; spend half a million or. a;.million a year afterwards, or to be annexed by any,other TOuntry. , As to arbiitration, ..that would -.be one :'of; the' finest. things, .they could} possibly;'attain,;, but unfortunately it: was .not possible under existing conditions'.