INDIGNATION.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 684, 8 December 1909, Page 8

INDIGNATION.

\ —• L THE LICENSING AGREEMENT. p „ ( ATTITUDE OF THE TRADE. f ' GOVERNMENT TO BE ASKED TO At!T. ■ . With the object of discussing the position v * created by the action of the New Zealand Ali liance w< endeavouring to annul a portion of the agreement relating to proposed licensing I * legislation, a- conference of the licensed vic- ' tuallers and others connected with the ' ( . Trade was held at tho Wellington ;' " Hall, Bonlcott Street, yesterday morning The .' conferonce was of a representative character, those ■ present having come from all parts of ~ tho Dominion to tho number of fully a hundred. Mr. Martin Kennedy, president of the Brewers' and Wine and Spmt Merchants' Association,' harimj been unanimously elected chairman, said in his oponing speech that tho repudiation of the agreement by the other party was the ohiof matter to como before the meeting. Personally he had -.been concerned first and foremost with, tho making of the u agreement He briefly outlined tho history of ' ' the negotiations, and tho part tho "Trade" ',f had taken. The Agreement, Mri H. J. Williams, secretary of tho Now Zealand Licensed Victuallers' Association, then | f read tho 'agreement, as follows — Proposed amendments of the Licensing Act, : - IM6V- ' * ■j 1. Tuo' issues only shall hereafter be put j to the people, viz : *" (l) I vote that the number of licenses otist- ' ing id tho district continue. (2) I vote that no licenses be granted in the district ' 2 Tho i«ssue—"l voto that the number of L licenses existing in tho district bo reduced," ; shall heieafter not be put to the peoplo 3 That every vote hereaftei cast for local no-Bccnso shalL connt tor national (or Dominion) prohibition, and there shall bo added the issue No 2 above, words indicating this • l effect, thus—(2) I vote that no licentes bo ..granted in this district (this vote shall also bo counted for Dominion prohibition). 4 Upon -1 Dominion prohibition coming into effect, no intoxicating liquor shall bo imported , into or manufactured or sold within the Do- < mrmon, except for scientifio and medical purposes 5. The majority of votes required to carry Dominion prohibition shall be 55-100ths of all \ the votes cast. r 6 The majority of votes required to carry local No-Licenso shall be reduced from 3-sth k to 55-100tlH of all tho votes cast 7. If Dominion prohibition is carried, it ' shall not take effect for % period of five jcars from date of tho poll afteT it is so carried 5 If local No-Licen«e is earned, it shall not take effect for two jears from ddte of tho poll after it is carried. 1 , 9. If Dominion prohibition is carried, no further poll shall be taken until such prohilataon has been in operation three years. 10. In districts m whioh no-license is already in force, or shall come into force before Dominion prohibition is earned, the same issues shall be put as at present, but all votes cast for non-restoration in the district shall I count for Dominion prohibition, and there ' shall be added after the words "I vote that

,-; licenses be not restored, in the district," the . ~ words' "(this -vote shall also bo counted for ,t Dominion prohibition)." f. ■ ' 11. If the "votes cast for restoration in any t district amount to 55-fflOtbs of all the votes ' . cast, restoration shall ba deemed to be carried. I ' , Other, Documents, Tho*following .documents wore also read:— ,; r 'Wellington, November 6, 1909. ~- '. 'To the Bight Hon. tho Prime Minister i ' .of New Zealand.'— , '-' , Dear Sir,—On behalf 'of tho New Zea'i ' land Alliance for the abolition of tho liquor'. ' traffic, and being duly authorised by the executive of that body to mako this re- ' , quest on its behalf, we hereby agree to and , ,'.' reqnest'that you will pass into law during ■the present session of Parliament the foregoing 'proposed"amendments 'of the' Licensing Act,, 1908: and wo hereby, on the same behalf, agree to further by all means in our powen.the passago>into law of lcgis- '' lotion embodying , these amendments. ■' - i "We make nthis'. request without foro- , going the principles embodied in tho Bill now standing on the Order Papor in the . 0 name of, Mr. Lanrenson, .M.P. We do'so ' . • " in deference to representations > made by . the Hon., Dr. Kndlay, and on the understanding 'that a similar request and pro— \ ' mise is being made to yon-by tho ,' ', ised representatives of tho licensed liquor trado, and «ath the hope that these . amendments will serve tho full purposes-of our reform.—Sours respectfully, J (SignedV-'Weslcy Spregg, •'Pres. NX Alliance, ,/Chairman of Execntise, ' • John Dawson,' Sccrotaiy,

To <tbo Han. Dr. Kndhy, Minister for Justice, Wellington. Sir,7-The draft amendments embodying r ' die proposed alterations of tho Licensing' Act, 1908, aro to bo submitted to such ■ solicitors as wo nominate. We, of course, ■ agree that tie same * privilcgo 19 to bo > acceded to the representatives of the licensed liquor trade. In case of any difference as to'the form or drafting of these amendments,' we agree to submit to and , ' abide by your decision. We do this on the understanding that the authorised representatives /of tho liquor trade bind ' themselves by the same understanding.— Tours truly'(signed)—Wesloy Spragg, President New Zealand Alliance. John Dawson, Secretary Now Zealand Alliance. We, representatives of .tho New Zealand Brerers and Wine and 'Spirit Merchants' Association of New Zealand, and of the Licensed Victuallers' , Association, hereby agree to tho foregoing amendments of tho 1, Licensing Act, 1908; and we further undertako to do all in our power to have theso amendments carried into law this session; and we further undertake that m case of any difference as to tho terms of the draft embodying theso amendments between our solicitor and tho solicitor of the Now Zealand Alliance for the abolition of the liquor tralhc, wo agree to submit to and abide by the decision of the Hon. Dr. Fmdlay, Attorney-General.— (Signed) M. Kennedy, Charrman NXB.A.

'S:Wii : !&-^r ,; 'S^PaJnier,;>Preadenil:;;Xicans{!d : Vic-' '■' /, of; New.. Zealand. ; %'^i-;ippn^^:y^r':^jy ! i\\': ■^■■■\--' .:'y •!■';' ■s':S : ;p::;&! : i"lieo. : .^\MiS-i£jersrilhe'"' -Campbell .C0.,v1ti1.)./'.: ,-':',/ ',> ■ Crownv Brewery ■•' C 0.," 'Ltd.,''/tier / :■_,;■ .;;>.;,;.';• *• ; v y^-vi}-;:-; ; J. : Ji i Staples:andiCo., v Ltd.,-'M.:Keniedy ) : i Afii\ : P'--4j-'K 'mauaging;oUrector."■''■• '::■;>•-,'.: : ii]vliiY-';' ', andy Co/, -per ;:"-M. : -' - Kennedy,' ''•■ :'.'S'S^;i■■-■■'' ; 7: authorised; by?A./W.' ; Greerislade. if''<:fA : ;:Great':7Norlherii -:Ltd, ; ::'; ~ : :-i.yK : -,'- : ■'•■':'- •ii^>.K';'^ : ; Hancockvand ;C6;,sNew/Zealand;'Ltd.;, .--;.'; £&;v'^i--i!li.? W .Nathan :and'Co., .Ltd.,-,per W. ■■: " ;,said ;thatMit< had; been agreed a^BiU;sh'onld: ; b6fpfit through';this,session, 0K:, consider/iwhatfolaim ; the ..Trade; stillhad'Aup'on iiK;w : the;Governirient;on.fchat account. There might ''- ;':>-; bo hindrances' to. thb;,Government getting a 'Bill ; but -:<;iho:;, question -''was: -.Had; the si, /^Government.'any bright -to drop', tho'matter at ; : .fs';; .'the : dictationrot'"6no' : of-;.the parties ? '■:•■' The rethVlVade did 'not /perhaps' £££• iextensively-consnlt-., the .Trade, .but 'they felt ;';';,?;'themselves to be'in;touch.>ith the Trade, and convinced .that their' action would ■ not bo had been justified, it/was'hot:so oij'the other side;. The com;r;,;i;.r~biiiation. of the.local' No-Licens6 vote with the SUu Dominion; prohibition,;.vote .was the' kernel of■ •i.-i'iifi.ii.whole'.agTeeniputi arrived at between the ,-;•• i+i parties,',but;tlie I 'other side':: now "repudiated cs'/;this,Vaud.'said they must have.the right to vote' 'H^-S local;No-Liconse'without•the'.voto counting for .• y,;: yVnatiqnal .prohibition; - Tho proposal, which 'they v..t;! ; ;thus ; ;repudiated,vw:as;.no hew one, and should :i;;?:;:vhavevhad;sufficiuht ; consideration.' ■ .'" ".' : f'S^ ; rs^ n a'iChairmah ; ;;Jthen;': called upon > several :',' : \;;. speakers: to.deal with-various aspects -of the ■/■•pTT'subject.^:«y>;'^i::"'v.--. : " :;; '^ ; -'"'V '■■'■-•' '.•■'■.'■'■■■'■■' Si^w3^.^^':?^);-i\ : -.:Sli;ong7-Feefinß. : :-;.''-" •/■>• ? : S-?\i ''ISlrV 1 Leo.Myers : (Auckland) congratulated.the /H/;i Trade/on the large"; and/representative ; char- ' ;^;l'-ooßif>-'of; 'the';gathoring.;; .The Trade in New ///^Zealand,/had/never" been/more ..united; than it • '?.:': was /how//; Ho;.explained, that ho would read ,/•(', his'ispeech.'becaiise "he felt so"'strongly; that he /////could'not trtfst himself to, refer; to'the;matter /////with "sufficient calmness if he spoke extempore, '"':';■'=.fciib'wing;that; he':'had a.'sympathetic audience. ////■; ; -;/|?It'. is/my''•:duty,"/Mr. :Myers -weht'/pn; -'So ('•S to. .the; request/pf■the -chairman .'arid : ; :;ffi-;. ; "give;ybu'alreport ;of,th'6 negotiations which led £>/£-.; li p/to.the agreement/between; the/'New sTft; Zealand '-'AllmnceV.andi.'the .'jTrade—aVcompr'o-'. ':•}'&■ "misevthat-was ;^offected ; ; only/.to" be repudiated -'""'?'-:by the Alliance ,a. few ■ days;'.'afterwards.;;.' You ;:/

tare ;majority-, .basis, and also "■'.' Dominion ■option.'on similar .lines.. Tho Trade, Von the other ;hand,;has felt that. Parliament should <eet r : itself■. to; remedy, ; cortain grievances and right the injnstico under which the Trade was labouring. ;;Need I remind you.that tho Trade has alwaya; felt the injustice of the dual vote that 'could be recorded for reduction and nolicense—two inconsistent issues; The Trade has, however, recognised that besides itself and the Prohibition party there was another sec•tion. of the community whoso -interests had to b8 protected—namely, the great- ; . Moderate party. Bearing this in mind, the Trade sought to evolve issues that would protect this party's interests; whilst conceding at the same time to the Prohibitionists that for which they woro agitating, and remedying 'in' somo measure the injustico before referred to. The upshot of this continued agitation by the Alliance was a: suggestion from the Hon. Dr. Findlay that wo 'confer -with ; the leaders of the Now Zealand Alliance'on the lines compromiseacceptable to both sides. Ascertaining from Dr. Findlay that the representatives of the Alliance, were accredited by that body and fully authorised by it to act, I satisfied him that I and my colleagues wore empowered to represent the Trado of, the Dominion. This was essential before commencing negotiations, as we were.not prepared to disclose the hand of the Trado by means of a compromise except un•der circumstances that would result in finality. Dr. Findlay stated that the basis of his nego. tiations was tho assurance regarding their au> thority, of Mr.. Wesley Spragg and the Rev, Mr. Dawson—president and. secretary respectively of the New Zealand Alliance..

■'.'., -What the Trade Proposed. "Tho Trade then submitted to these gentle men,'through the Findlay, the fol. lowing issues, which it was considered conserved :the'interests of all-parties in the com. .mnnity:— ;'■ ■'■'.:",■',"' "1. Vote for Dominion prohibition. "2. Vote' for continuance of licenses (as-at present). "3. Tote for local no-license (as at present). "CTrider these issues the Trade conceded Dominion' prohibition; in lieu of reduction—each elector: to have the right to record his-vote for ono'issue. These proposals were summarily rejected by the Alliance, leaders, who submitted' counter proposals providing for :-t- ' "1. Vote for, continuance 'of ' license' (as at present).',.,.. -.-.,.'■ .:■..-.:. "2.Vote forlocal no-license (as at present), with tho footnote on the ballot-paper that each vote cast for local no-license should count; for Dominion- prohibition; A: ' '■•-■.-.■'• ,:";'. -.'-, .'.VWo considered this aspect of the question, and with'a'consciousness of the.spirit of compromise, wo agreed to the issues, but insisted that.as-the:, voto'ifor local .no-license was to count for Dominion prohibition,, that the electors should' have this condition;;clearly placed before them with 'the .issues' on vthe ballot-paper,-instead of in' a. footnote,; which would probably hot be seon..'-Recognising -that we' were giving ! way, very considerably ]in allowing tho■ Alliance to cstsHJish the. principle;'in- ;New, Zealand ;of : national prohibition, and•*''of :;the' further principle that only 55.per cent, shoold bo instead of 60 per cent., to carry an issue, it was agreed that of the respite should W granted to the Trade in the case of either local no-liccnso or national prohibition. "■■'■'•-,■•' ■■'..■ .-.

';■ ;'.'!:-•■■.: • .the Agreement Signed.. "The agreement that yon have heard. read was; then entered into and :signed by all'par. ties. I "may here, say : that prior, to the agree-: ment being signed; by the Alliance 'leaders, they' 'colled a meeting.of .the executive of the New Zealand Alliance to confirm the '. terms. of the agreement arranged' by their leaders with us. After .-several -. honrs'. , discussion'the Alii-, ■ance executive.approved of, the compromise. :In view of this confirmation, audi of- the un-. •rnistakahle; language' used' in the "agreement, and letters read by the secretary,V one is at';a. loss to understand how'the' Prohibition party can';honestly claim that their leaders^who.con.ducted .the negotiations-were :not representing, the 7,whole of the persons'bound .the 'name of ■ the New Zealand .'Alliance./ .Ton. can, .therefore, appreciate' the astonishment, that.was felt'when, at a special convention of the executive and members'of theiNew Zealand -Alliance called in Wellington some days, afterwards,-it was decided that, that convention- wpuld ; not'support, and thus repudiated,' the main'underlying principle embodied in the agreement, viz., that every vote cast for local ho-license would thereby be' cast for national prohibition. Ton,;and all right-thinking men..and: women, will 'surely-require no assistance .from mo'to fittingly, characterise such conduct. Surely' : the monopoly of; all"'the.:virtues, arrb-.. gated to themselves by : the leaders' of the No:Licehse;pa.rty...is inconsistent with- such: a re-' prehensible. action.- TVhat j.would such leaders , have said had'the phslfidhsbeen reversed aii'dj I the repudiating!party beela the Trade? ... ■.'

...-;. Repudiation.: ..: "'-' : '..'.'■.•'•'.- . ."As a contrast, let .me point out how; the Trade; 'attested_its.''sincerityi S ' .When Dr. Find-': lay somewhat stretched the construction of the 'agreement against, the .Trade on several points, Mr. Skerrett, ;6n its behalf, .protested ,to him, 1 boij in spite,of 1 this,; loyally .carried' ;out.the spirit o^.the-agreement -by., accepting ,Dr. Endhiy's decision as final and binding. It ;has..been /'suggested, that..tho;Trade were, de:riving some undue benefit from,;the.compromise. Time.; alone' conld ,prove whether, such -■was the case. ; The ■Trade were prepared to stand, or fall on the issue, of, tho. abolition of lienor from the Dominion, which. was the .main,/object of the New Zealand-Alliance,/as; is manifest from its title.; The executive'of the New Zealand. Alliance evidently; considered .that/the' tzmo.-was opportune 'for the realisa-' tion of their : hopes,.' and so entered into thfc arrangement; but ..when the agreement. was .made known, these .leaders, must have "thought libit, they public opinion, and then, by.;repudiating the. agreement,, demonstrated' their ..unwillingness;, to leave tho de'cision of this issue to the electors, evidently postponing; it for an occasionin their .opinion more, opportune.' 1 /Their, notions should : con. clusively satisfy.the who have . been so sorely misled by thorn in the past as to what can be expected from the.Alliance iu.the future. In > entering -into . the;: agreement '• we 'were fully conscious of the-magnitude; of .the gamble that was.involved in it, us it-was impossible to forecast' with any degree/of accuracy what action the public would take with those issues them. The. .indignation, and- dis-/ gust of .the. Trade, do not. arise, from-the. fact 1 that' the. Trade, was ..enamoured in any; degree, of, tie terms entered into, • but from the fact that the' Trade was' decoived ij.by the leaders !of ; the Alliance'-who- so unworthilyrepudiated tho agreement that was entered -into "only after such (Applause.) .-.

-.'. The \ Retailers'; Attitude. '; ' \ Mr. J.,S. Palmer, president of the Licensed, VictdaTlers' Association of .New : Zealand,, also emphasised -the unanimity ; ;of the Trade and called upon all to' ; support a calling that had for centuries been looted up to and recognised as a : lawful, proper,- and, justifiable; adjunct of civilised life/-. Owing to a certain agitation, '■however, the position' of ;the Trade had become intolerable, and-itwasmocessaiy thafc-spmo-thing should be done to relieve the .present tension. The Trade was bound down,by un-; fair; and un-British conditions; that did not apply to any; other occupation.' ; The conditions of the -Trade prevented the licensee from taking; part in political and: other .public matters, and he. lived a truly - miserable business life,/though he was. expected always' to wear a'smiling; face, of the inct that it was. almost impossible for him to: do anything that. would .not - involve .vindictive ,or, spiteful retaliation. '.Passing on to speak/:of the late' negotiation's, - Mr.' Palmer said that 'Dr.. Findlay, had acted as.;a thoroughly impartial raterraediary, and the agreement arrived at'was ' the- "outcome,. so far as the Trade was concerned, -of serious :■ and earnest, reflection,. and was ;.considered fair' and:;reasonable, ; .It was duly signed, by leading officers on; each side, and tho Trade had every right to; expect that it would be carried out in its entirety.; It had' now been deliberately -violated and' repudiated, and' that; by a .party of individuals who set themselves. up as leaders and teachers of public, morals. Recent events had disclosed the cloven; hoof,; and had shown how unreliable, those people could be when they considered that" the,ond justified the means. He con-' sidered, under' all the circumstances, and consideringithe gravity of the situation, that the Tradd'was entitled to the assistance and pro--, tectum of the legislature against such' conduct. - (Applause.)' ■■'..,'•. "-.•.,-'■.-"■.',.■■■

':/■ : , What About Next Poll? ■ Mr. A. E.Kernot, representing the Welling-, ton District Wino. and Spirit Merchants' Asso-: ciation',' said tho agreement' had been sharply criticised by members of :tho Trade who thought their representatives had given' away too much, and yet they wore .prepared to stand, by it. Ho - strongly ..condemned on moral grounds, the action of the other party, and' said the Trado could not take it lying down. The No-License . party was not* nearly so. strong' (is-had . been supposed.;':,it • had' been largely aided by the Moderate party, but the sympatlrie3'' i of :that party had been alienated by the action of; the No-License party, and ' the latter would meet with a big snrpriso at the next: election. (Applause.). '■■:VM'l';'\^W;'■•A■v''.Mowb^ay■'C[Artn v .'aild'."Co^ : . ; als6 , condemned. the. action, of the: Allranco party,, ; .'j;-^;r-':-'::;v ; "Ari-.Awful Word. I '.: ■;.,-y.; ;V .-■■■ ' .The'/'HOn. ,C. Xoirisson,': M.L.C.; : •'. said : : the. leaders. of * tho.; NciLicehse party .were ', men of keen ; brains, Va'nd likely, to. take' advantage of any occurrence 1 that ..'might ; benefit.'their cause' 'Tljey. WOTet'already;.trying-to-mate'the best of

the present .situation, and were seeking.-to lessen the-effectof the awful word repudiation-; —for it was an awful word. , (Hear, heat.) Had the, agreement been made between. two .business houses, there would have been no possibility of repudiation, for it could have been, enforced in the Supreme Court. As it was a political agreement, there was no 6uch remedy. The No-License party were trying to induce the pubHo to believe that negotiations were still possible, but that was not the case. The whole thing was definitely, concluded when the agreement was signed. The Alliance was also trying to make out that the point they had repudiated was a slight one. On the: contrary, it was the very : foundation of the agreement. The combination of the two issues was all the Trade had to compensate for the loss of the 5 per cent. The Alliance point of view appeared to be expressed by a newspaper correspondent, who safd that the Allianco had not ignored the compromise, but had agreed to it subject to a certain alteration. Tho alteration, however, was fundamental, and they had no right to ask for it. The position of the Trade was absolute It stood upon the ;written:agreement and nothing else. The question was between the honourable carrying out of'an agreement or the repudiation of it.

The Government Fooled. Not- only had the, Trade been fooled, continued Mr. Louisson, but the, Government also had been fooled. The Prime Minister, acting on the written and signed agreement, announced the intended legislation in his Budget, when ho stated:— .- '■'.. "I have, taken steps, through the good ; Offices of one of my colleagues, to induce ' ; the two great parties to this question, independently throngh their recognised repressntatives, to modify their full demands for.'cr , opposition to, certain proposed amendments. In this aim, I am glad to say, the results have been .entirely, successful, owing to a spirit of reasonable and honourable conees-■ , sion on both sides. The proposals therefore in the.legislation I intend very shortly to introduce have already obtained tho express " ■: approval; of both the parties referred to, and I have been requested by each, independently, to pass this proposed legislation ' into law this session." .

The Goyernmont,' it would bo seen (continued Mr.i Louisson), had been led to believe that an absolute and binding agreement had been entered into, but at the last moment the agreement was repudiated by one side. The proposals for a compromise did not come from the Trade. They had felt that to go to the NoLicense party and ask for any little concession that might benefit the Trade would bo a useless proceeding. The proposals emanated from the N.Z. Alliance, and were brought before the Trade by tho Hon. Dr. Findlay, who did his best to promote h settlement. The Trade would never consent to the 55 per cent, majority without the other condition, which had now been repudiated by the other party. He had not the slightest doubt that ;the-Alliance would now tell the people that the Trado had agreed to the:ss per cent. ■ majority.' "We must not allow them," continued Mr. Louisson, "to steal, that 5, per cent.' from us without getting absolutely in return what- we agreed to and what they agreed to give us." (Applanse.) Ho was not .downhearted about the loss ; of the agreement, for, he;, felt that in the outcome the No-License party had not improved its position. .The -Trade had shown' that it could keep an agreement.

"The Sheet Anchor.'* ■_'. -r-. jThe-yiairman said that during the negotiations there had been grave doubts among the representatives < of the Trado as to; whether it would be judicious to give away the 5 per cent. They had not been apprehensive'as to the effect of -.- the reduced majority in connection with national prohibition, but in regard to local No-License. Their safeguard; was that immense, numbers .of moderate people voted No-License because they knew that they could have, whisky in.their own houses. 1 'The representatives of the Trade regarded tho combination of Dominion.prohibition.with the reduced majority as their sheet anchor. .-,'■

: Will Stand by the Agreement. ' v The meeting then went into committee. The discussion..lasted several hours, and resolutions .were'.passed, but were not communicated to the press. \ They, will bo forwarded to the Prinio Minister. . Tho 'conference . concluded late in; the afternoon;!, ; v- -::;;■'.■: '''..' 7 :.

••. The effect of tho Resolutions' passed by the conference is to urge the Government-to bring down legislation;on tho lines of the agreement that was made .'the other day between the representatives; of■'•tho'-jTrada and the .New. Zea-. land Alliance. The attitude taken up by the conference vis -that any dissatisfaction which one side may feel does not annul the agreement, ;and"thut v it is still binding upon ; fhe parties.. Nor should . the Government,, it' is claimed, abandon its expressed'-intention of bringing down legislation on .the lines already 6tated;' »ilt ; is,,however, recognised . that it; may not be practicable to pass such legislation during the present session, and'the Trade does not ask that matters should.be hnrriedto that extent.-" ■•':'"'' •;::/- ...'•■' '

; IThoEev. John Dawson,'secretary of the New Zealand Affiance,. when approached last night, declined: to maker any statement in regard to the above.matter... .. ' . .. .:":'..••