STATE GUARANTEED ADVANCES.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 673, 25 November 1909, Page 9

STATE GUARANTEED ADVANCES.

•^;i; ; bisduss!dN in-committee/.■.:)/•; : Tho discission . in Committee bn ; the State Giisirnnteed Advances iijU'was resumed/, in tlio bycning.. .'■ '. :;•' • "■'.' '■'• •■, '■/; ■ '■■ //'/ ■ '' ■ -/Mr: : : JJlVJi!;(Egmont)..thought that 'the inoreasa of'.l .per'cent in interest wiw goiiig- to fall : heavi)y .on. county'councils. ;■ Therp wero cages' l in -/-Jiia" district v.n<Sre three, oans:had been borrowed .at intervals. to' metal tho. sanio rpadi , the. last, loan being borrowed • before .-.the" tot-'wos.'wiped,,outp ■./ : ;■-.' .'..'-: '-'.■■ -. , ■.■■■.■; •'/ ": •. Mr. VKA iShli (W akaiipu) 'saw advantages and also disadvantages m't'be Bill.".-He-th.dug.bt that' many; local bPuies.;/which :,wiviited .to. not-extensively, but cheaply,' would; preicr iho Old system. ■; ■■; /-. : s/: ; .■■.' ... - W/'-' , '/ ■' /'■.•■'■' : ■■■•• flnjregard'to'-Section, 20.-u, .which, 'proposed that in .Section'!}! of the New 'Loans Act, 1908/ the: r^%en«a ■ to tho ; Consolidated. I'und:: and the,' Minister; respectively'should; deemed ■.references' to'■; tho/Aayanccs ■ Aceount'. aiid': the} superintendent respectively, Mr. Herries,:'(Tuuranga). stated that • the debentures and ecrip'undoKthis Aaot ; ivould'not.form part of •the public., debt, and hodid : not see: how-they: wore •. going to -be • iriscribed. ~Ho ..hoped : that t tho Prime .Minister v<ould/hava eomo ngrobmeht irith"the Bank pt'.Knglahd, by which they pouid bo -.inscribed.' He did not: think; that they wero covered by tho Consolidated Btock'Act of 877 i -..'-! ; <^-'.'.- : ..-. '.: ■!• ':.;:■-■■-•' ■■' ' ■.■■;.■:.■'•■ '■"■ ■■■■■ Tho-PRIME -MINISTER said ie ' had :.bocn Assured iu' , England -that what was .proposjd' .undov'thb .Bill conld : bo carried, out- ; , •- • ■:\i In :fnrtheV answer to Mr.' Herries, ■ the Prime Minister/Stated that conversion arid : inscription, colild bo. carried 'out,if they ; wanted , ,-to üb-it. . Ho. would not that ho::wonld'.see'that'this was donei-:-; ,, ''..',''. i/i\-.-'!<?*: : r*\':S ■-> •->:..<■'■'>■ ;'W' :;IIr,.'!EKEEIES moved a-]new. sub-clausa that ;heVassctsr;of should not bb ! liablo' for ..moneys Raised ,'by. , the ■ superintendent for anpthor'-brancli/v ■ •;.■.;. '■'■'■;'--' - ! j ; :'.'';' ; I'hb proposal was : opposoci-ljy tho-'Primb' ilinister>: and. v iiej;atived.:bu : tlio: yoiceis. ;.'■■■'■ ':':•■;;•;■. ■;Deta|is;of.,',l.oans.'-'' i ;v.-'-;'.''■ .■:' •■>•., \-:' ];/ '■ Mr. '.ilisSEr prbpdsod' that tho-'return' to! bo laid annually'.uotbte , ,l'arliaiuont.should givo informaiibn as to thb rate of interest; and price of the.debentures. '.-. -'. : : " ' :'■.'■."■'■':'■ ■'- '',!•■ , The; Primo.Minister'.replied that' the 'infor■matipii'.'was : not-alKays ayailablo.'. , .'... ••'. . • Mr';';Mas3cy snid:lio ; balioved!,tho Primo MiniBtor; had Buch'.information lty cablo ■ within twenty-four, hour's \bf;.,the'.tninsactiou";taking place, and;if. lio.did. : ,not'lie"Shbum hay'o it.. He did.not think that the Prime , Minister had boon : treating tho /.Hpuso .fairly, in '. withholding information 'as ,to his financial' transactions. . .Mr. HEKBIES stated'.that;theonly;infonnation'which : tho.Houso.would get as. to;.these; loans would bo that giyen invtho annual roturn provided ,for,' as the loans, would not form part, of tho ---.public- dobt.v. ,"-,'■■■ .'■.' ' 1 ;V ; . ■-. .'."'Sir'.-JOSEPHI-WiUjp, in. answer ■ to Mr. Trasor. (Wakatipu),; admitted that the '• new'advances - : account would ■ not appoar in next year's.-Budget; being..a'guaranteed account. '■",'■■ 'Mr. ; FEAbEE. said : h6 thought it monstrous' And.'A'idiciilou's'tb piit.;tho Housb ,'ih such a , I .position; OHo did not- siiy ■: that < the Gpvernlnont concealed- information, but 'thpfo wasVa tendency < to make public as littlo' as : ; It was -time':tb.e : : Hpnso. declared, thai tiio information should be provided.-:■ , " ' • v' MINISTER said that'all''tne". information as .to' loans would bo furnished just 'as-fully asit Was now. .':.■"■'■, '. •"'•"■.•■.■■;• ";..Mr..'-T..,K TAYLOE..(Uliristchnrch-'Nor-.:-' .' Baidv.tho /Primo Minister .had promised'.'tho Houso^'to introduce ' tho-.'Canadian.'systom'-"of. keeping tho; public accounts.- ;'i.'hat. promise haainot been fulfilled.' .",:./ .;. '■' i: Tlio', Prime Mi'nistori 1 /Tho ". Public Accounts Committeo would not have-it. ■■ "/ . .'■ '/Mi'. Massey: ■ iVha't? /- 'i ' r, ,■•' ' /Mr., Taylor • That's now. ■ ! .'■:: .;: . ",-.■■. ,v.Sir.3osepli It , was Opposed by thorn •Tory strongly. ; : - ■• : ' . . ■■■■■ . ■ .;Air. Tayloi- pointed-out that-tho : Govcniinent had always a majority of. moinbers on the comliiitteo. .■lf.'b.o had ! boen tho.Primo Aiiuis'tcr ho .-wodd'not have, allowed tho idea to bo rejected. He would have, whipped -.up his menaiid ra'ado them, dp their -duty.■. (Laughter.): Tho Canadian system'was.-a model of detail. Ho askod the Primp; Minister, if' he had 'personally aban-" doped. his.-.-.-.belief ',iu the ■; post-audit 'system, which ho bolieved ought. to succeed the presontsystom. ,:/.- : . ~/;//.'' ■■ .-/ v.-.. ~' : Sir Joseph.Ward said 'that in'lOOS'.he'intTo' duced a Kill to substitute: the system' of postaudit 'of-,the ;public,accounts for tho systcui of pre-audit.:.Ho;believed.-in. the Canadian system;, but, it could hot be introduced without the.post-audit. : / / /.:'';'. : ..■.'■'./--...../ r- Mr. MASSiIT Baidi ho could never see why the .Canadian .system-could not be adopted in conjunction with the present pre-audit system. Ho. thought that if the Auditor and ControllerGeneral And tho. Deputy Auditor and Control-ler-General/ werp consulted they ; could - arriva at a satisfactory solution of the, difficulty. Mr. Massey.' moved- an amendment to Clause 38d'pf the : Bill, to provide that the ; Minister's annual return should' include' particulars' of the ratoof interest to bo paid on loans and'tHc date .when they, were raised.- The information : could bo easily supplied, he pointed out, -because it. would refer to the -previous financial ■year.'; ;; // : /.-. ■/-./-.■; ■••■'-. // ; . ■!■ ■/■;■/.• -.-.-:/■. '■■' The'nmpndment wna Inst by 35 votes toi 20' r .The:PRIME MINISTER opposed : a suggess tion by Dr.; To Eangihiroa-(Northern Maoris) i- to. include nmbng tho classes of landon which U money might be advanced under Clause 37,' s ilan/Js hold under Nativo land boards. Hβ 0 ,cculd not '.include everything in tho Bill at f 'once., - : " ,- ■' ■■■•' ■■".-.■.■• ■/- -. v- ; ... ' ■ e ELI/fChristchurch South) suggested that J if advances, could be made to settlors/ who 1 held,a leaso under the I#caT Bodies Leasing a Act it;would assist workers to get homes. u i .Tho'PRIME:MINISTER,said ho would conr .aider.the;matter. '.. . .■-...•.■■■■■.- n Additiona to Bill. / :: ■ / . ■■ Ij .On'.tho Prinio Minister's motion, tho follow. u ing woro added to the classes of. land on which n ,money/'-.may : be wlvanced (Clause 37):—Crown a lands hold;on leaso for agricultural purposes 01 .under tho,Mining'-Districts■ Land Occupation o Act, 181)4; Crown, lands held on licenso for resiu denco-sites under tho. Mining Act,' 1891, or the , Mining"■ Act,/1905; Crown' lands held on least under section forty-fiyo, Part 111, of tho Min- ;,- ing Act, 1898,' and 'section forty-Gve, Part-111, ie ,of the. Mining, Act/ 1908; Maori lands , ,.which is hivd in trust for loasing: ; .tc :s and,;are:hpld undpr. leases frpin a Maori lanil >1, board ;urider tho powers contained in -the/Maori \i 'LdhdsjAdministration Act,-1000; and its-am end(f - monte, lind yhich' have 'been"granted for.Jtermi if of : not : less/than/twenty-one.yeats,.with* righl :c of,; rpnowai; for. anpther.. term; .of; twenty-one

and which contain the provisions set ■ out in the regulations under the Mast-mentioned Act for valuation for improvements. . . Question of Preference. . • •■■'■ -Uf. T. E." TAYLOTJ (Christchurch North) inovod to amend Clause 38 (3) to read: "No advance' shall'bo Granted ;for a sum-of less than £25 or more than A-200U" >■ (instead oi ,£3U(IO)r. but the amendment was ,1-ejected ■by 49 votes to 12. , . Tho PRIME MINISTER said that 85, per cent, of the,loans advanced lust year wero lor. amounts for under XSOO. ■ ■....-. Mr. HOGAN (Warigamii) thought preference in regard to, loans should be given.first to the small leaseholder, then the small freeholder; and afterwards tho large leaseholder and largo freeholder, in that order. -.•• Mr. HEED (Bay of ■ Islands) -moved as an amendment to.Clause 38 that in applications: for loans '■ on rural laiid applicants residing upon their should luivo priority. The proposal was rejected on the voices.. Clause. 43, which provides for rebato; of. interest when instalments are- paid punctually, was the subject of some discussion.' ■ ' V . .' Mr. JRTUSSELL (Avon) declared that tho rebate cost the country £3(),000 a year.. Tho olauso.was retained by d 8 votes to G. -. I Hours of Sitting, ,-;/: . ; " . , Mr. TAYLOR at 11.55. p.m. moved to report progress. . . '■: .■ v . .■'.'■ . "Sir Joseph: Tho House .was hero at 3 o'clock this morning considering the Bill, but you wero absent;.-. ■ : •■'■ ;'• ',' '■■ ■ .■••■■•. Mr. Taylor: If members were wise they would notsit till that hour. .'- ■. . . .., ' ■'■•.■.-., Sir Joseph: I should.like another 1C clauses passed; I hope the Bill will bo fully .considered ! by the end.of to-morrow. ■.' '... ! : . ■ Mr. MASSEY was of opinion that tho Housoshould not later than 12.30. i - ' ■ •Progress was not reported by. 31 to 19. • Limitation.*cf Advances/ ;;..>, ■"■■'■When-Clanso "59 was-nnder discussion,"". , ■ The PElilE JfINKTBR moved to limit, the advance.to ,£i5Q instead of ■ : '--. , ' ..'.'■ ■ The amendment.-was agreed to. ; : ; The House roso at about 1 a.m. : .