THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 3, Issue 643, 21 October 1909, Page 8

THE HOUSE.

; FIRST READINGS, The House mot at 2.30 p.m. The following Bills were introduced: and read i first time:—lnangahua County Council Empowering Bill-(Mr. Colvin), Public Works Emjowering Bill. (Mr. M'Lnron)/ and Waitara 3orough Reserves; Vesting Bill (Mr. Jennings). ; A RECORD SPEECH. Mr. CKAIGIE (Timaru), whoso privilege it ras to resume tho dobato on tho Address-in-leply, 'ho- having moved the adjournment on ;ho previous - day, mado a speech which lasted ialf a minute. Ho said that he would'not take ip tho timp of tho House; for he looked'upon t as a waste of very valunblo timo to rcsumo he debate. Mr; Craigie thanked 'members in both side's for the very encouraging reception thegr* bad. given him on rising/and sat lown amidst considerublo laughter. A momber: That is tho'best speech you'will vor make in'your lifo. . The Speakor put the motion to present a repectful roply to his Excellency's Address, but tr. Slander (Marsdon) rose •to continuo the ebale. . THE TIMBER COMMISSION. , Mr. MANDER; who was a member of the 'imber Commission, spoke at some length oil ho l timber industry. Ho claimed that thero ms uever a more energetic and conscientious oiumission than' that which had investigated

this industry. If their report .was not a satisfactory it was not tho fault of tho commission. He:'.would. not say. that, tho..report would result in any ; good to the country'at all. It'might. 'Ho'-did not know .what position .the . Goyornniont would tpko rip in regard to-it., A , good "deal of'information had been gathered and' recommendations had been made , that ought to bo useful.•'lfr. Mandor urged that, we could not conserve. the timber of, the- country as was sometimes, suggested. , In tho.caso of gxrad grouhd it was more;profitable to clear ... the timber and market it,, and' then sow grass,. .but provision should,be mado for afforcstatioa, as the commission recommended, and timber on broken country should be conserved as far as . possible. Mr. Mandor criticised the co-opera-tive labour system, imdor which,. he said, the good man was kept down ivith regard.to'.wafca ... to the level of the "inefficient. .'Tho Opposition, wanted; to assist the workers to riso . in tho social ..scale, ','and; . to ' give' -.an .opportunity 'to every,' , man ,toacquire a piece of land of his'own. He did not sco. why the man who was successful-on.tho land .. should bo condemned any more than. tho . man . who was successful in. anv other occupation. It was not wise of 'the (jov?rnmsnt to- pay high prices in acquiring lands for subdivision, .and by so doing to increase the value of.tho surrounding' landsj so early as they had dono.. 1 Thev should first havo utilised, the Native , lands and the locked-upGovernment lands. At'the. same .time' one should be allowed . to monopolise land" as it was monopolised in ..the Old Country." . : ■ : MR. WITTY'S REMARKS. Mr. WITTr ; (Eiccarton)' Ota as a proof of confidence in the country, Ixaat the loan' jnst raised by; the : Prime Minister-was tho , cheapest that had ever, been-.raised. . For . eighteen'years it ; had been stated that tha country was going; to the dogs. The country , would not go to tho dogs until tho Opposition camo into power, and'tnat day,was a long way off. ■ Money, hod been .dearer during the last eighteen years than it : was now. In 1896 j tho mortgages registered were only. five , and a half million pounds, whereas last year they were . nearly twenty millions. The reforence to the wool kings seemed to be the only thing that could be chargod against tiie Hon. G. Fowlds. . and it' was reiterated. time after tiino. Ana did not' the wool kingß rcceivo most benefit from the price of .wool P They received most benefit, not; only from wool, but from tho sale of their owes/to the settlers. Farmors had given them such a . price thsit it would take , them two or three years to pay'for'the sheep they had bought from, the wool. Irihgß., With regard to the question of valuations, Mr. Witty ' Baid he had; seen, papers in which valuers were instnicted not to raise'the vtdues, and to make the fullest allowance for improvements. Ho did not think that the land; question .would be 1 settled this'session, or for; several years to come. He would be sorry to 6ee any of . the State endowments parted with. They had been set apart for -the" benefit of posterity.; A lot of the leases had not fallen in. yet,' and. they would fetch a' bigger price in', a yoar or two! than'they 'TOre fetching to-day.", Mr..'Witty ex- , pressed regret that no Local Government Bill was being brought • down, and expressed approval 'of tho Hospitals 'and Charitable Insh- . rations Bill, and also the Harbour Boards Bill.. No further; option' should .be , given, to the . Crown tenants in respect of. the freehold. They. would never' get the freehold at 'the original. price, nor , with the ; addition of one per ■ cent., THE MEMBER FOR TAUMARUNUI. Mr. JENNINGS (Taumarunui) said that h« would have liked to 'seo iri the Governor't ' Speech sonie reference'to'law reform'., Tin...re- '. spect of-prison reform, h<S thought there waa a danger; of making the- lot' ,of . prisoners too' pleasant. l It was the- duty of the State to 6ee that every child should oe'able to' enjoy the : advantages of- primary' education', but' he knew of over one hundred children' in the backblocks' who were being' deprived of those benefits '■ for want of, schools. The Government had . made an advance, movement with respect to the utilisation of'.waste lands in the King' Country.:! •; He stood with some; of tho greatest Liberals of the world—Mr.,; Gladstone and Sir. George ■ Grey, for example—in his allegiance to the -, , freehold tenure. To say that the stoqe-orhshing ; plant and railway in Taranaki had cost .£50,(W0 . was' a',;yory unfaii ■ statement. I '' He thought that the magistrate had decided, very, justly in the New., Plymouth butter-moisture cases. ■ • • With regard to. the: Auckland'cases, hohadv ' never* seen, a more pitiable exhibition on . the ' 1 part, of; the than was (givenoja .that V:, v occasion.' It was a mistake in-every-way to •bring those prosecutions,, and that some persons '. had , tho; chance to get. the cases withdrawn, while - others were -fined. MR." W> C. BUCHANAN'S SPEECH. • fitTCHAiJAN: (Wairirapay'said ■ he hoped that Mr. Jennings's vote on the land question would be in' accordance with tho' ' opinions he hpd expressed.„Mr.,,Wittr hod bose'd:as''a finah'oier:-itf:conhectioh' ; .'jfith''',"tho"''; Prime Minister'^'loan.' Full'particular's 'of. the ' I, - loan, however, wero not yet kriown' on tho Opposition 6ide, whatever might .be Mr. Witty's information. With regard to; tno last speaker's statement that lambs from'.lolb;' to. 501b. weight' should. bo called by :a different name, 'and : dealt with accordingly, Mr. Buchanan' said' he ; agreed with Mr. Witty that'it was a great pity , that 'the : farmers, who wero the people primarily interested, thought freezing companies, through'whom they:did;their;business, did not combine ; together to see if joint action' could, not bo .taken in some direction in ;io--spect of . this business. As a director of; a • freezing. company. ■he had on various ocoasions ■ tried to bring this about,' and once-he thought 'that he was hing to succeed.; The two Confer- '' , bury companies agreed to an invitation to' at- -' „ tend a conference in Wellington, but ; after-' ' wards withdrew:.; . He. hoped that they would yet 6ee tilings in a better light,-and that joint ..... action would ~bo taken ,'in regard to this , im- , portant;question.',He was glad to say that cmploymerit; was, getting more plentiful, and we appeared .to.bo. on, tho eve of .much, better ~ times'.' ■ Often it' was said in .the towns, "Send , the unemployed, to the country/' He did not . know,if there was any saddor filing to soo than:., a poor swagger, perhaps,with white hair and - , beard', toiling beneath nis heaj-y swag and ask-, • ing at a settler's, for,,food. ana lodging. -He bad had thirteen such visitors in one, night not>, long ago. The taunt had been used from 1 the 5 .Government side that'.settlors were glad to seo these men, becauso . they. . could. em- ~ ploy them' ...'. at ~ cheap,,. wages. . . That was ' a very.' ' wrong' statement •• to . makfc. . . t The Land Question.. ' Ho was glad, that the' Prime' Minister had promised to deal with the laud 'questidn - session. It would be very interesting to see how the-Government would'propose to- deal ■ ; with it. The latest addition, to their.'ranks,; ; Mr.i T. Mackenzie, had-stated at Rangitikei ■■ that "he made no secret of what his intentions• were.Ho : was originally'a leaseholder, in .respeot of that, particular system (the 989 yeare* : * lease), but : he was hot how, for. many reasons.' ■; . Mr. Buchanan stated that it was the opinion }. of the' Hon.'J. A. Millar thiit upon the death ~' - of a Crown' tenant tho loase should cxpiro. .. Then ngaiii, the Hon. G. Fowlds's views on'"tho subject were not in sympathy'with those' of tho Ministry* It seemed,likely that they:, would havo to-continue to wait for a, further indication as. to tho Government policy in regard to lands.' With respect to Native lands, he said it was bad enough to havo them with-. held 'from . the settlers,, out it' was far worse , if it wore true, 'as Mr., Ho"g had said, that" they were being monopolised through tho sgenoy of agents and speculators.' In the past they had', had promises by - the buckotful,, but no -fruit had been borne. He trusted that the people : would see to it that the Government brought ; down a. suitable Native land policy.' What 1 was tho use of the Government pretending that it was not in financial difficulties during the ' recent depression? It must be within tho '.' knowledge of the Prime Minister that applicants under the Advances to Sottlers Act baa to'; wait for four or fivo ; .months for loans. ' Sir Joseph: The statement is misleadine.'-, -.V Mr. Buchanan:, I speak from actual knowledge. ,It is well known that the. Government had no money to fulfil its promisos in this-re- • giird. „ ■ '■ Sir Joseph: It..had. ■ Mr. Buchanan went, on to say that if fur- ' , ' ther'proof of,what ho had said was wanted, it, was to bo found in many statements by Mr. ' who hnd stated, inter alia, that tlio duties which he, had to perform (as Minister for Labour) wero heartrending. The fact that'.', there was no reserve to.meet the difficulty,:.' , which arose last winter, showed that tlier# v must havo been • Loss of Settlers. "F ' It' would take many new immigrants to make up- for tho -loss of sottlei-s which' took placo during the depression; Upon their return, visitors to: Australia had stated that tlia dominant feature of tho' depression' hcte was tlio shortage of money, whilst on the othor' side tho opposite appeared: to'bo the'case.' l It was also ridiculous to say that a good deal' of capital did not accompany tho settlers who " loft Now ; Zealand for Otlioi'.. parts. How did-, the flovc-nmont grapple with-tho position? By dosing Parliament for throe months. In his opinion, , Mr. ; ' Millar bad answered .the quo*-. ■ tion by; stating that tho Government had no ' money, and could not do anything, in tho matter. Referring to tho 'control of railwayp,- : ' Mr. Buchanan pointed: out that a'substantial profit on working • had ncorucd nB a result of - 1 tho commissioner systonl in Victoria, Now South- Wales and Queensland;lt wils a wollknown fact in .favour of' the' commissioner system that it was not long after the Govern- ' * mont. had taken• over tho management of the Manawatu' line numeroiu protests' camo from ■ tha usere. . ■ \ ' ,s

;:-a ' ' CAND'TENURE. " " ' 'V BAUME(Auckland East) reforrod ' L~n' abortion that ho would:not ■Zt? ' - I£l ' Vo ' : ' V<? * vc lands (lualt with until tile-property held by the white people proV:' : P 9! 5y ;tlealt, if the Nativo ;.Janets wero not ! to bo •' treated in such a \ray ,a$ s : ?&ttlem%t;^ i, , "osteon'" granted;^the'Govbrnlhoht, did not rjJWV»W»Pwmis^-j^^far'!6no^.\«»i>ld v iid( bo ■. dhJposcd to'Ctake"VtMfpositJon'Ytamely.': \ Tho . . ?^i9WsHbn?bf;.tonnra.wai : notiprimarily. of ■.'rsovmuph' the.tjuestion of subthat tho. bfest hs^T«?;.t»WiorrfHS'.StatiJ : (md'.'Hio individual WM\the vfreeliold,''.; (HeHfi .hear.) - But bo had : .:®W?f"^n- , .'ft.'.snppdrUrVof.'unlimited freehold.' ■ H°£-;Tfould like." to' mention''.that,; for thirty sectiocft 'in the 'IVAkau.block, which: was opened .]on : 'th®. optionalUystein'; there were 457 nppli-, :., raiife/,.whilst; for : 78sections .'in the Tekari , . block,. wliioh 'was . opened under the leasehold Chora won) ; only, threo 'applicant. They . -would ; never', get;men ■to take"up.land in ithe , North' Island under tho.leasehold, and/mora : '■.'SSP'om'Ulj:' -under . restricted leaim.;, Tho * people i;*! entitled to , mo.re:'tonsiderati6h from ;tlie' Government ■in ■ the .'.matter ;of ..land : tenure, ■i p. n !?seiu«ntly,;.ilr.. • Baumo; expressed . the opinion' that the workors worain.favour of the froe- -};■ hold. , ; ,■ Booanse, they- can't Ret small leaso- : f ',liolafl;Si;.'? ... r ' . ;.nev'er met a .worker,-who {11(1 ..not ium at (letting a piece if, land for :himv".y> they are;prepared to mako' presentday; sacrifices tq ; ,(hat: end.- ■•'■■■ . HON.jni;BUDDO'S SPEECH: r ... The lion, K BtJDDO, referring. to. >n. .: ; patispns;raado.botwpen Anstralia'and Noiv.Zea- / Wu,i ?aid that .one never heard 'an. Australian running dowit his own country. "One ;°,f ;■ weradeclare that it. is the best ■c°uritry-6n';.Qt>d*a. earth.": i Mr. Massey ; had, stated - that ithb/,Midland'! Bailway ':would P'}"* Mr.' Euddo booted fstatements.of ,i W'®^i'^^P^l^"Vhi^;'ha;J)oli«mto bo true*, ihat they could supply bettor and cheaper coah to Canterbury'if it'vraisr.otpmnshed up in. transit. IJo referred to tho gricvanco of tho . ? r B. Bistribnting' Company in :;coiihecti6n' ' State .Coal -DepotsHe was" very far' from -being .unfriendly .to" this'company which,' ,-wprfe.' Mi;.' > Euddo .'briefly recapitulated the circumstances of'.tha. ca'se,' and stafel.'that thero was" a-coal yard'.-'jieitto theVpremiecslongboforc tho company .took. the" lease.' (Mr. ; Massey i ' There onaocount-of the being shifted,, the company ,tried to . let : thes!i' premisi;s;!".a r :'TOrticnlWy rent; i fekea for,'' and, :tney r ,fbuna"';themselyes Tmfiblo .to let'; thorn." The corapanyhad - got ij damages',fr6m',;the Department,once,and now, their objection -a-as that the Government would notvlet the Crown Smta.Act.boset. aside 'so! thf^tihey;might "have another.run for their .mo)iby.'''-(Mr.''Massey: Th'ey' .-vraiit an tion; to ; prevent:the jinisance.) ,'i lf thero was' goinj: .to'.bo .tt coal-yar.d, screening' must be! carried on.' It' would be a ;great injustice prac-. ticilly tp ; . the', .public, .to.' get, Ann :injunction against • this coal yatd.' .'lt would take the ■publip a long time .to get same supplies of coiu.if an injiinctioTi .weie' takoh'aKaißst this "®b?jlii^yardi ; "':Mr;' : : Buddo , strongly:,'deiiied..'the i swUmont, that;. 'thsi'„Health/, Dopartment" had: . gotvjtiub of- hana; :aiid: claimed that the Do-! ( portineht,: had . done Oh, the ■ question of' 'valuations,Mr'. V Buddo,: .said \it,' was .'not 'correct '.'that r-.ihstructions ; : .wer'6 given to llr. Ames, case/to raise .itheV?valuation. - Mr..: Ames ; had said • that . tho.; increase in -land -'nilues was largely i:e'-'. sponsible for thb depression:in.^Wellington lost' -writer. ( Tho total amount of the valuation for Wellington made. in. 15C5, aTid :confirmcd !in ' 1900/;. was a!ls,6W,Qlß,v.;andv'ohly. two small reductions were made by; the Assessment Court, Thiyaluitions;,in ;«trictly teaednable. As a farmer, he was not. likely to ! coitotenance any. idoa. of raising values- ■■ During- the latter pnrt of )aat' : yoar 'not one per centj;:of the 1 , valuations.' irore ;to- before;, .the,'; Assessment Court. •.' Mr. 'Buddo read as/circular to .valuers, issued .by Jthc ValuerGoneral, : 'in ' which : it; was he exevery .valuer i to"; bo'in.'.t,!position ,;to fihoiw/. that ne : had - knowledge -• of all < imp'rovemehta/ahd!values, ahditoiba able to Drove that ho ,-hnd . made full Vallowance : for all "existing • imjirbvoments; and ;that his valnation • was a fair<one' nnder- .the Act.'' r;Mr. .Buddo also .'quoted statistics, by • tha Commonwealth Statistician to'ahow that daring" tho years lMOOS^thirpopulation' of New, Zcalatid' had:' indreased;;hn :a 'gr«oter>proportioa than'that of anjr'.''Australian State, except West' Australia." He 'claimed that' a lar;:o' proportion "of the re-' cirit rdeparttires from New Zealand • were"only. .' and when the.slaughter- ; ing.'-andv other s industries ibdgan- 'they woiild ;i comq;.back;.:. -,the returns i wcr'o 'avaiTablo/ 'it.'would ba foind that m rt- ! gard; to iincreasofof,-,population,' the,'country's. record for,' last year , would .'bo. very little be- , .1907, ,w^cn.'.the:numb/ir.,,of .arrivajs; J W vPjg'pii^iT^;isooo.i!n?'«ceM' ofvthb cl number, of . ■ . ..' ; . ' .] K", " pTHER SPEAKERS. ' i" j * TBCOjBJSOJJ• (DunediajN;), said he ! had .not been, mnch. edified by-tho : debate; which' • ' ? a ,^;P,^^ r g e mutual reenninar. J of ' irregularity'. 1 among,:. the, ; officers'; of .'.;thor. Valuation' Depart- : sen,5 en , j 111 f ,which a .private' employer *?W. : P o^,per^ti!.rj..Heibelievcd''.'that 'ths ofii- c S?W the'-'members '' S*«?«™.'Swwe;. as' a whole" he had a very c Wghv Mr;,'. ThoMsbh also Referred to 1 •' fe ery - dlssatisfactibn- which had beon^. expressed 'in Diinedih' with ; the Govern- ' mont;valuation. " ~ i asserted "that, the - 3°tiifl 01 1~5 a I y ; .™PKsent«d\ class '' privileges 1 S?i^ Iflsh ,nlcri lH- " 'ho' fredhold 1 Wanted: nnresorvedly, ■ rioh."raon' would U'vc in 5 »'/ew-'loiieljr.;eriipl«yeeß. would * fhiV %as 1 iu 9ecn^: C ' settlement, but. moro- ? 15SS,f ■ "Jl -.te" u ?'® V vas :. thequestion of 1 Mad ng,..".,The wisdom ;of .tho lebsehold policy J had .'been: proved- at.. Qhoviet.: - In; a few years J Est»«."w»ald 1 °. ff ' an <J ' the country wonld .be fr ° m ;■ ela!l''ti?Vw Mnorls) said ' he.' was . war thahthe-'Govornmeot intended to 1 Vto .Native « affairs, and.he' hoped -that 'the-rights, of tho ! he considered.,'as \ well. ; as .the } SSAvJS® ihero seemed to bo a ! !h;i 'JhL o !' ra ' s , c , orlc ,7 t l»fi as to the: condition 1 '-tl? to /absorb in 100 '' he i-'» -jW'Mntanes;to acquire. Mr. .Ma«sey ' » #t,; ' h^rt ' iw<is ' ;i,t ' tlw party.' f (which-.had'.; -a. representative ' in-, the Ministry) r wai.putting the,; Natives in :a :wrong- position. , twnM r T < Vk n l (a Itivo,?f1 t i vo ,? f (he race, he 1 a ? „f 1 /i, aori ' Peop l ® should have - M ,- ' E ? r qpcans* consideration. ( Hitherto the Natives had ; been considered use- ( »f^"f C!ltloE i' 01l ' tho Tho VVr'-Eut J l M ao^s .--on ■ the-, same .footing/as ■ the •' Euro-' i ««*»'# 'rirf i B ¥ 4n tti*t ; .h«i should'bo. given 1 L r 'fe t:,vltll ' Ws-lahd-v The Ctov. 1 Echemosunder- i ?nrfeoia ii'' 1 ■ e ?.i would become a race of t 'o^lSa^w 08 cth f lr ,*° ,7 . n ; lioraes: on s thair t oivii land.. He coneludod by,:stating-that*the peah"'-, Wnsidered before the Euro'if" 5 :tbat .'i!ad beea : taken to i Bain. ) water.,ixiwer..lioen!!es in .oonnection pith t •SSJwf!?^He 'wish^ I whether, 'h® Minister, for-Mines really intended Tl'had a^n n f l 0 aS -2!f^ ho 1 issue would "provide that i tho : loaso' aU'/tho plant was'to bo c by,-the : Gbvernment; af"the^umob?' matter, was it burning: one on the West Coast ■ ( He reonsidered _that at thi end-of thl teri ttc i tWhi«/ B f on 'f 1 a, ' owecl - - td ebhtinne upon 'I W tfc f f 6 T h '? w«. sincerely to'J gonnectipn with, tho matter without- delay.' Mr. : i H n ke i 6B^ -Midland'EailVfiy and I 'W#'hope- • I tJif,t the Government wonld' endorse the' recom- 1 mendations of tho, Timber Commission.' "" ' 1 that money •fot--naval defence should bo . raised by adding 5 ' H',—,^ ax^on ' on 'totalisator money, ' Htnicn '-would give an amount ; : of - a year. ( The bookmrfe; should:bo'wiped out, and i thonght-that :p®row." had thoro. been, such a. genuine i prepare for-the wttleraent of t a question. Q5 had been made 1 bj.;.the present 'Govdynment. ' TJnrinff the l«6t ' year 6r .two. been made, for 'i legislation.-,juo 'believed .that there should be i ;on'eVJaw::tb \deal in/a. comprehenfiive manner . with; the land of both Europeans and' Natives. ■ The' ; land, iiust-.be both : used and occupied; . 1 , END OF THE'DEBATE. ] .- '_Mr. SM.ITn (Kangitikti)'rose, to.speok in rtply. at..12.35 a.m. lie denied the cburres of 1 bribery m conncetion .with the EangitikN elaotion.* The statements mado in regard to Xltiku 1 nnd.Awarua IP. lilock were the result of information which obtained, and Which' could hivo been obtained by any elector. * r :;Tho « Addrcss-in-Eeplj-. 1 ; was: . nimnimously agreed.to at 12.40 a-in. - . -i On; the .Prime Minister's motion the House thon wont into. Committee of.Supply and < Com■mittco of Ways and Means, anil immediately adjourned.