TIMBER COMMISSION.

Dominion, Volume 2, Issue 518, 27 May 1909, Page 6

TIMBER COMMISSION.

YESTERDAY'S EVIDENCE. INTERESTING FIGURES. ■ Tho Timbor Commission continued its sittings yesterday, the Hon. T. Y. Duncan prosiding over a full attendance of members.

Tho first witness called was A. 0. Koch, District Railway Engineer, who Btatcd that tho numbor of totara sleepers used by tho Railway Department recently-was very limited. In 1908-9, tho' sleepors üßed in renewals at Wellington ' and Pioton came to 36,387, made- up as follows:—Totara, 121 (3s. 6d. oach); birch, 1799 (3s. od.); jarrah, 29,075 (45.); ironbark, 639 (45.); silver pino, 4763 (is.).

s.To Mr! Ell: For renewals, the Department was Telying chiefly on Australian hardwood. Ho had heard that they might be shut down 'upon'some time or other, but was unaware 'wnat provision was boing mado to meet this eventuality. Ho thought-the Department would' have to' fall baok on New Zealand timbers. Hardwood was principally usod for bridging and stringers, and New Zealand timbers for. building. . : COMMISSIONER OF CROWN LANDS ; ';;'.; : GIVES EVIDENCE! James Mackenzie, Commissioner of Crown Lands, for the Wellington district, stated that timbor was growing on 2,616,000 acres of land. Crown and otherwise, containing about 12,800,000,000 superficial feet, but the forest timber available now for payable milling was about 284,000 acres, equal to about 4,295,254,000 feet.. ......" ■ The varieties - of/ timbers he referred to wore as follow:—'.' _ ' ._■ Native and Crown Lands. Private. T0tara'...:....!.. 80,012,000 103,655,000 Mrroand rinra 763,605,000 1,802,900,000 Matai 340,012,000 738,250,000 Kahikatea ...... 107,520,000 288,700,000 Maife .............. 3,000,000 . 67,600,000 Total ..... 1,294,149,000 . 3,001,105,000 Grand; total, 4,295,254,000 superficial feet. -. To Mr. Field: He thought that the timber, in the Wellington district would last about forty years.- : Although it would be difficult to preserve some of the .timber,' that m the Ohakune district might be retained.. Ho believed in. afforestation. The commissioner thought that the waste country should be planted before the looality wller6 •»■ forest had existed should be replaced. Trees that grew quickly, say those that would yield profit in fifty-years, should be . To Mr. Hanan: The greater part of the timber on the Main Trunk linej had ; been taken up during the past three years, but considerable milling areas were available up the.line.i They.should, he thought, be reserved by the State 'and,thus prevent waste on private land. The royalties were only a fieabite. He was not •in favour of Crown tenants being asked to plant certain areas of their leases. . ; " To Mr. Ell: The commissioner expressed the opinion that the present supplies should be nursed until the areas that -had been planted became available. ;TTMBER FOR THE RAILWAYS. James Burnett, Chief Engineer of the Railway Department, stated that within tie past ten years the number of sleepers, usod, on the railways had been about 3,500,000. : Of this number, 2,750,000 were of New Zealand timber: and 750,000 of' Australian timber. Tho prioe charged for the local article was in excess of that, for the Australian. He could not recommend the-Department to. creosote sleepers at the present prohibitive rate. It ! was-only suitable where the traffic was light. The use of Australian hardwood was the right thing, and tho more they could get the better it was for the railways. - To Mr. Field: He had heard for some years that the New: South Wales Government might prohibit the,exportation of ironbark, but'up to-'the presout nothing definite: had been done.- Still, there was an, unlimited supply of jarrah in Western Australia. He approved of hardwood plantations in New Zealand, but there was great;danger of fire._

/MERCHANTS AND SAWMILLERS.

. N. F.Marley,. secretary of the Wellington Timber Merchants'; Association, said that a lot had been written and stated about a combine, but, so far as tho merchants, were concerned, there was nothing of ,the_ kind. Members of ,the association placed their own orders, and, speaking generally, preferred to :do so through a sawmillers'- association, so that if one mill could not supply the whole or anypart.of the order, it could bo passed on to another, mill, without reference to the merchant, and so save valuable ; time. On the other N hand,'the' millers generally,"■ of course there were exceptions, preferred to deal only with as,_ although they got a somewhat lower-price in tho first instance, it was a definite'-one, and they know just what they-had to come, arid thus run no risk of bad debts:"-The witness quoted figures to show that' the total increase in the price of rimu to the public during tho past eight years had been 2s. B}d. per 100 feet, which,, he considered, effectually disposed of the charge that tho merchants had exploited the public. He could not see that the importation, of Oregon, so far, had had .any; effect on. the building industry, but there: could -be no.donbt that during the last quarter'of the year, and partly owing fo a consignment 0f,300,000ft. being dumped here,, and sold at' a vory low" price, it came into, direct conflict with 0.8. rimu, and so injured the local millers, by reducing the demand. - / ..■.-'.

jTo Mr. Barber: Some of the members of the association had been fined for -underBelling, btrt the amounts of the' fines had not been' collected. If a man failed to purchase the wholo of his supply from the association, bo was not given the trade discount. BUSINESS PARTICULARLY SL'ACK. After the luncheon adjournment, William Hopkirk, chairman of the Wellington Timber Association, stated emphatically that in this city the merchant was a necessity, and, that : the.business could not even approximately bo satisfactorily by the miller. The'. merchant. retailed timber to. the builder, :for which he or at least, should have, an adequate return, but to his cortain knowledge this return had often been very, disappointing and inadequate. He would go further, and assert that at the best of times the average profit made by the merchant had never Jbeen unreasonable or exorbitant, although, on some lines, the margin was higher than on others, but this was 'the case in every business. The timber busi-' noss was particularly slack at present, caused chiefly by the, 'lack' of money and financial tightness, and the demand' for ; either local or foreign timber, was very low. He did not think it had ever been in. a worse state, although there had been previous slumps in tho trade, notably from 1880 to 1882, and in lessors degrees since. . Sales,. at present were being, made at prices which could not possibly ' pay. > Merchants wore simply playing a waiting, game, feeling assured that the would soon pass,, and better times again revive a drooping industry. As to the cry that tho increased cost of timber: was responsible for the high rents and the advance in house property, ho emphatically denied that this was so, and the mombors would agree when he said that an addition of Is. per 100 ft. suppr would mean only an extra cost of £10 to £11 on a six-roomed house, say 12s. 6d. per annum, or 3d., per week in rent. Ho desired, to say that there was nothing in tho naturo of a combine, interpreting that term to mean an organisation for fleecing tha,public or securing excessive profits. : ■ Tho association endeavoured to prevent unfair competition,' and to maintain a payable margin. Ho said endeavoured, for'they had not always been successful, and the competition that existed kept prices at tho veriest minimum. Tho Oregon question did not affect the merchants In 1901, their buying prico of ordinary building timber was 9s 3d. per 100 ft. less 2J per cent., which made it 9s. ljd., and the selling prico was ,10s. Bfd. Twelve months ago, tho buying prico was 10s. 93d., and it was sold at 133. 5d., an increase of 2s. BJd. for tho eight jtnrs. . , . .

To Mr, Clark: There was no combino to prevent ordinary trade competition. Thero was an ogreomoirt aa to orice, and if a

buyor did not care to pay it, be must go elsewhere. The prices fixed were reasonable To Mr. Barber: At the present time, timber was going very cheaply, and could le bought from 10s. to 12s. 6d. per 100 ft., and in some oases, perhaps, 9s. 6d. . THE PRESENT DEPRESSION. , William M'Jiono, managing secretary of the Wairarapa Sawmillers' Association, said he was awaro that the present depression was caused to some extent by the tightness of the money market, but he was also awaro that the importation of Oregon pine had deprived the mills in his association during the past eight months of orders which would amount toliundreds of thousands of foet of good marketable New Zealand timber. Had they been given the opportunity with, other colonial • millers of supplying . a comparative share of tho quantity supplied by foreign trade it would have been of immense benefit in assisting, to keep their mills cutting, and a large number of their men at work during the depression. He had canvassed Wellington on several occasions seeking for orders for their millers, but had failed to book one foot of timber, and at tho samo timo he had seen dray-loads: of, Oregon being carted to jobs. There wero houses in Wellington bnilt almost throughout with Oregon. The association put through 2,969,690 feet less for the year ending February 28, 1909,. than for tho previous year. This amount worked out at the low average of 10s. per 100 ft. meant a loss of £14,848 to circulation for that period. Also, the Railway Department lost £3712 in freight. As nearly as could be ascertained, there wore.some 200 less men employed at sawmilling now in the Wairarapa and Hutt iValloy than wero employed at this time last year. He was safe in saying that 500 people were left in a state of want or to seek employment in other pursuits, which meant that others must bo forced into idleness. Both for the millers and their employees, it was an urgent, necessity to have a further duty placed on Oregon pine immediately. His opinion was that it should have been increased twelve months ago, and thus have prevented hardships to workers and financial difficulties to certain millers! Oregon should carry an extra duty of 2s. per 100 feet on sizes up to and including 12 by 12, and Is. I per 100 feet extra on all sizes above that. .

THE INTERESTS OF THE WORKERS. M. J. Reardon, an ex-63wmill worker, and union. secretary, hoped that in the interests of the • workers and the whole com-, munity the commission would recommend the imposition of a protective duty on; imported timber, as it came into competition. with New Zealand timber. His reason was that he regarded this as a primary industry, in which very, high wages were paid. ■ To Mr. Hanan: He approved of the principle Of establishing State sawmills. He thought there was a necessity. The present rates were reasonable, in his opinion. Mr. Hanan: Is the State mill to create more competition? Witness: No, it is to abolish it. Are the workers unanimous?—l do not know. There are many things about which the workers are not unanimous. . If the price is reasonable, do you believe the people /are exploited?— Yes. Where a man has to work for another man he is being exploited. A , '•' Even if the extra duty means an increase in the cost to the workers,, are' you in favour of it?—l am prepared to recommend tho putting on of the duty against any other consideration. I would sooner do without an artiole than take it from a country in competition with bur own. . ■ ."- Witness submitted that it was necessary to place a 100: per cent, duty on Oregon. Re: {erring to recent Arbitration _ Court proceedings at jlnvercargill, he said he urged that 'the importation. of Oregon would be to the advantage of the worker,- and would not injure the millor, but, pressed by Mr. Hanan, he admitted that this was an; incorrect contention. < . Mr. Hanan said ho represented the Invercargiir workers, and took exception to the last statement, and said: "You used it know-, ing it to have been falso?" Witness remarked that if he had been on tho other side he would have had no difficulty in refuting, it. ... : . ■'.■■, . ' ' You do not attach much weight to the evidence of the architects and carpenters when.they say that for certain purposes Oregon should be. allowed to.com© in to the Dominion? —No. • ''';■ '....■'

Do you mean to say that after these men have given evidence on oath to that effect, you doMiot believe their statements ?—I suppose thoy spoke from motives of self-interest. / Oregon was used at,, the Grafton Road bridge at Auckland. The contractor said that no .other (timbor would have done so well. Would you place a duty on it under these circumstances?—l would get some other material. ,' > ■ What material? —Steel, for instance. Where does steel come from? —From outside the Dominion.. At 5 p.m., tho commission adjourned till 7.30 p.m. ;; EVENING SITTING. Upon resuming, _ the ' evidence of M. J. Reardon was continued. . 'Mr. Jennings: Have you any information as to the effect of the State mill at Kakahi?

Witness: No. I only spoke on the general question. / , ' '

Mr. Arnold:. You were not appointed by anybody to come here to give evidence? —No. You are simply voicing your own opinions? —Yes, but I think I am voicing the opinions of the men engaged in the industry. If they required ■ a man to give ovidence, and I. offered my services, I think I would be chosen. Have you any financial interest in any mill?. ..>'■.

Mr. Hanan (interjecting): No such luckl (Laughter.) v "•.. / The witness': No such luckl ' Mr. Hanan: Then thero is luck in sawmilling at the present time. (Laughter.) After some further questioning, Mr. Hanan said: You do not say that tho industry is in such a bad position that the imposition of tho duty would put it in a better position to-morrow?—No, but I think the Oregon has accentuated tho trouble.

C. C. Odlih (of the Odlin Timber and Hardware Company) stated that his firm was unable to get big timber from the millers without undue delay, and as a result, contracts were kept bick.

To tho chairman: If a man ordered a 'arge quantity of large sizes, eighteen months ago, while the boom was on, he could .not get it without taking all the other small"sizes with it, and, even then, ho would have to wait a considerable time.

;To.Mr. Field: Any complaints as"to the high price of timber wore unjustifiable. He thought the merchants could not be dispensed with. Now the boom was over, they had no difficulty _in getting ample supplies of timber. During the past few years, freight on timber had increased by Is. Bd. The timber now came from the Wairarapa- and Hutt Valley. The millers were selling now below cost. He made no profit out of 0,8. timber.

Mr. Field remarked that therefore it could not be said that the merchants were robbing tho working man, as .his houses were built of 0.8. timber.

Witaess: The working man is not being robbed. Oregon competed with kauri and 0.8. timber.

At 10 p.m., the commission adjourned until 9 a.m. torday.