THE COUNCIL.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 311, 25 September 1908, Page 9

THE COUNCIL.

LANDLESS MAORIS. The Upper' House met at 2.30 yesterday afternoon. Th f HON W. PERE (Hawke's Bay) asked the 'Attorney-General—"Whether the Government intends' carrying out its proposals, intimated several years ago, with- regard to providing the landless Maoris of New Zea-land-with 'sufficient land for their maintenance and.'sunnort?"Tho' ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Hon. Dr. Findlay),'said the Government had had tho matter in view, and hoped that, as a result of the. labours of the Native Land Commission, a .general schome would be formulated by. the 'Government' to meet all such • cases throughout the Dominion. JUDICIARY BILL. >' SECOND READING. , / Tli. ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Hon. Dr. Findlay), in moving the .second-reading of tho Judiciary Bill, said it would make radical" changes in the judicial system. He would ; content himself witk a . short statement, chiefly designed to prerent misapprehension, and after > the second reading lit would .move to ha-re the Bill referred to the ' Statutes Revision .. Committee. He wished to place before the committee a quantity,, of. figures' dealing with tho travelling allowances of judges.- ;Tlio';objects of the Bill '.wero to create a true Court of Appeal, 'to'abolish tho District Courts, and to estab- , lish -t. more efficient judicial system. Our present Court of Appeal was really _ a Full Court on which any ~ judge could sit with iis colleagues to hoar an appeal, on a case which'--.-h'o nad judged as an individual. The present Court of Appeal met three times a year in Wellington, and consisted of three judges. Consequently each judgo spent about four months of tho year in tr/ivmng, Also, cases in tho'other districts werb'delayed. to 'the-detriment of=-the parties. Ho had ' known''.as•• many . astwenty-one case? listed" for tho' Appeal Court, -and ' after.' a week or so they still , had twelve or more to deal with;.' and ;it was not satisfactory that they 'should have'to do - so much important work while rightly- anxious to re. turn iis' soon as' possible to their districts. It .' might bo'- said that they could go backand con'sidei 1 their- judgments at leisure, but tho fact was that they) found- it'.almost ncccssary to'be in consultation while conaidoring their - decisions. THe District Courts. i 'In regard to the District' Courts, he wished to testify to tho efficiency and good work of ; Judge Hasoldon, who held almost all these Courts, ; but the Courts themselves were ..obsolete. ~ Their procedure was infinitely more complicated than that of the Supremo Court.. They were antiquated and cumbersome, and were, rendered unnecessary by . tho extended jurisdiction given to stipendiary .magistrates and. tho -increased, sittings of the Supremo-Court. He would promise ,that : ; if the Bill wore passed every, place now served by the District, Courts would bo better served. . .A good deal of expense woiild also be saved. The salary -of the District Court judgo was.not very high, but, as.' he >was, almost constantly travelling, the expenses were very high proportionately to tli© work done. As an • example, ho loontioned Palmorston North, whero these Courts sat, • and. whore ; all the work' done by the District Court could bo equally well done by the Supreme Court or the Magistrate's Court. Overworked Judgas. Last year's Bill would have placed most of the work of'thc'Appeal Court in the hands of the Wellington judges, and, all but one. of, the judges objected to that soheme,: which was largely designed to save expense. "Our judges to-day are'overworked men,"'.said Dr. Findlay. "They, have' not complained to me, but I know from good authority that at least two of them haTO worked practically nearly every Sunday this year.." . It would be necossary, oven if tllojnew systom, wero rot established, to appoint one more judgo. If, then, they must havq' seven judges, ho proposed'to give three Court of Appeal and four to the Supreme. Court -in the different districts, and this would not place any-additional burden on the people, while the. avoidance of a groat deal of travelling would give the judges\more time. Three JudjM for tho Appeal Court. As to making'- the Court of Appeal consist of only thfee judges, he pointed out that there 'had been only three in' the English . Court of Appeal since 1875, and the system had worked well there and elsewhere. The appeal to the 'Prjvy . Council would also bo altrays open. Tho'proposal to have tho Court of Appeal sitting in the different centres would save much expense to litigants, and this should, if- possible, 'bo effected, because (for one reason) a largo proportion of appeal cases were duo, not to a litigious spirit, but to difficulties in the interpretation of the statutes as passed by Parliament. There should be-110 difficulty in finding a building fir the Court to sit ».t any of tho_ places, as the Appeal Court would not require a large rooM. ■ Status of'tfca Judges. In regard to tho objection as to the status of . the judges, Dr. Findhy pointed out that if. ?. mlnct.ion of rtatus wai to deter them from octpblithim; »n Appeal Court, such a Court, vrould never be established. The hid not raised this objection, and he did not'thi'nk anybody else lined do eo. Provision for a lamer Bnncb in the Appeal Court'far special rx-vs was made in the Bill. IJo the effect of his proposals would h" .(» Kjiedito procedure, to create, a more n W..: .-,t nijDellato tribunal, and to reduce 11:?. e!>U of our judicial, system. W.'?S 'lot Bs Passed This Session. When the Bill was before the Statutes Revision Committee he would nsk that committee to send copies to the judges, including District Judge Haselden, and ask for their comments on it. It was obviously impossible to pass the Bill this session, but unless very strong reasons were "shown to the contrary, tho Government hoped, if they

wore in the position they now occupied, to pass it next session. The Bill was read a second timo without discussion, and referred to tho' Statutes Revision Committee. PUBLIC WORKS AMENDMENT BILL. The Public Works Amendment Bill (Hon. J. R. Sinclair) was down for its second reading, but the order was struck out, and the Bill was referred to the Statutes Revision Committee. FIRE BRICADEB SILL. The Council than went into Committee on tho Firo Brigades Amendment Bill. In Clause 6, the Attorney-General moved to substitute £10,000 for £3000, as the limit of the borrowing powers of firo boards. i , Tho Hon. S. T. GEORGE objected on tho ground that the proposod limit was too high. Tho Hon. J. T. PAUL said the only reason for dissatisfaction with the proposed amendment was that the maximum was not high enough. At Dnnedin, where a' now firo station had to bo erected, £15,000 was wanted. Firs Insurant Lssiss. Tho Hon. S. T. GEORGE said that all the fire insuranco companies operating in tho' Dominion, except one; had lost money last year, and if tho firo boards wore to bo allowed to put s\ich heavy burdens on them, they might as well close thoir doors. A Councillor: Or raise the premiums. Mr. George: How can they, with ,the Stato office against them? If tho Stato likes to tako ovor all the fire insurance business of the country, well and good. The Hon. J. B. CALLAN said tho full borrowing powers would doubtless bo rarely used. Mr. George's argument seemed to point to opposition to the Fire Brigades Act as a whole.

. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said Dunedin wished to equip itself adequately, and not extravagantly, and could not -do it on tho existing borrowing powers. Tho companies would not be loss lieavily burdened than they might be under the existing law'. Were the Bill not passed, tho Dunedin Board could ask the companies for £3000 ft year for the required work. The proposed borrowing powers would enable the expenditure to bo spread over a longer period. The Stato and Insurance Premiums. In the courso of further discussion, members stated that tho State Firo Insuranco Department had reduced premiums. The Hon. S. T.- GEORGE said the money was being taken out of ono pockot and put into another. The Consolidated Fund was yfr'iu- ■ ally paying tho money into the pockots of the insurers. , The Hon. C. LOUISSON: Perhaps the At-torney-General can assure us that the State Firo Insurance Department will not raiso the premiums during tho noxt 12 months. Tho ATTORNEY-GENERAL: Tho general election takes place next November, and 1 can give no indication as to what may ba done within the next 12 months. Pourers of tho IriCjseotor. On the motion of the Attorney-General, the first subclause of tho last clause, which gives the inspector power to tako temporary control of , any brigade for the purpose of testing its efficiency, was amonded so as to make it tho duty of the superintendent of a brigade to cause th« brigade at all reasonable times, to carry out inch evolutions as tho inspector requires at any riait of inspection. * 'i Ansthar Parllamsntary Flrot The Hon. S. T. GEORGE then took the opportunity of saying 'that there was a great deal more danger of the present temporary Parliamentary Building being burnt down than there was of the, old one, which had been destroyed. Tho messengers and staff were supposed to be a firs brigade, but ho was sure that if tho fire alarm was rung, none of them would know what to do. Ho suggested that, as' tho matter camo within tho Department of Internal Affairs, the Hon. Dr. Findlay should sound the alarm.. . The ATTORNEY-GENERAL said such was not tho caso. VThe Government had given the.matter attention,, and.-if..Mr»;Georgs^rang; the alarm hV would --' Tha Bill was reported as amended. MANAWATU RAILWAY BILL. Tho ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Hon. Dr. Findlay), in moving tho third readinr -of the Wellington and Manawatu Railway Pur- ■ chase Bill, said that ho had given consideration to the point raised by the Hon. Mr. Samuel as to tho position of persons haying claims for compensation in respect of lands to be taken over.from the company by the Government. Ho .had gone into this matter .with the draughtsman, and they found that the only claims that might bo made would be based on contracts with tho company, and would therefore not bo affected, in any way by_ the Bill.. He had consulted tho Prime Minister on tho suggestion made by tho Hon. Mr. Rigg as to tho position , of employees. Ho found that already, tho Minister tor Railways had received objections to tho courso proposed from members of the railway service, who urged that tho classification of tho service should not bo interfered with by tho coming in of tho company's because tho, Government had had no means of knowing what kind of servico and skill had been shown by any, particular man. If, however, after further consideration, some such step as had been suggested was deemed 'desirable in the interests of justice, th'o Primo Minister would endeavour to effect it next year. The Bill was read a third time and. passed; IMPOUNDING AMENDMENT BILL. Tho.lmpounding Amendment Bill was committed. Drafting amendments were nia<le, and the Bill was reported. POLICE OFFENCEB AMENDMENT BILL. Tho ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Hon. Dr. Findlay) moved tho second reading of tho Police Offences Amendment Bill, which had como from the other House, and whioh onablcS a Court to inflict a line as an alternative to imprisonment with hard labour in certain cases, of obscene offonces. -Ho went on to say that ho proposed to use tho Bill for tho purpose of introducing important now provisions dealing with institutions'for habitual drunkards and institutions for fallen women. In regard to the latter, Dr.- Findlay went on to say that tho Salvation Army wag doing as fine a rescuc work as any agency in tho world, and it was tho duty of tho Legislature to help it as far as possible. Officers of tho Salvation Army waited at tho Courts and took chargo' of fallen women whom the magistrates, instead of sending to gaol, handed ovor to the care of tho Army. Unfortunately, however, there was no-power of detention, except in gaol. It Was proposed that a certain measure of power of detention, subject to tho strictest'and fullest supervision, should bo given to such agencies as tho Salvation Army in dealing with these cases. Members would, of course, watch carefully any proposal to givo powers of detention over any man or womau, but there wero cases in which such powers ought to ba given. (Hear, hear.) At present, women were taken in'hand by these exceedingly humanitarian agencies, and just beforo they would have got rid of their bad habits, they went away, and fell back to their former way of life,> whereas if they could bo kopt a month or two longer they might bo cured. Tho Bill was read a second time. JUSTICES Or THE PEACE AMENDMENT BILL. The Hon. O. SAMUEL (Tarannki) moved the second reading of tho Justices of the Peace Amendment Bill, which, he said, would make more convenient tho access to the Magistrate's Court by enabling the Clerk of tho Court to deal with tho laying of complaints and informations, and other puraly adminiotratire matters. It also provided that a person claiming to bo tried by jury, and either convicted on indictment or committed for sentence, might b» declared an habitual offender. The Bill wa» read » secwid time. BUSINESS OF THE SESSION. MINISTERIAL STATEMENT. Th« ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Hon. Dr. . Findlay) made reference to the Prime Minister's expressed hope that- the session would be ended this day week, - and stated that, ' with a view of facilitating that endeavour,

it had been dccided to introduco a number of Government measures in tlio Council. Ho give notice, to movo on next sitting day, "That the Standing Orders lie suspended so fur as to allow Government Bills to lw put tkrongh all their stages at one sitting.' 1 flew Bills. Tiie Attorney-General then save notice ol the following Dills: — Auckland University College. Laud Drainage. Palmerston North Dairy School. Hauraki Plains. National Provident. Immigration Restriction. Mental Hospitals Reserves. Harbours Act Amendment. Goro Public Library. Stamp Act Amendment. Defence Amendment. Hamilton Domains. Heavy Traffic. ' Old Ago Pensions Amendment. State Fire Insurauco Amendment. Dr. Findlay added that ho would have to ask the Council to. sit next Monday, and he felt sure ho would have the willing cooperation of every member in doing, so far as they could, tho work embodied in these Bills. .