THE HOUSE

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 310, 24 September 1908, Page 9

THE HOUSE

BUSINESS TO BE DONE. STATEMENT BY THE PR!ME MINISTER. ■ Jl'he ; House : devoted yesterday afternoon .replies, of - Ministers .to question. . ' ;• /Ob.' the House resuming after the dinner adjournment, : ; ' d'ke.' -PltliiE MINISTER delivered a state-. Mint-, is to .the work. he .'proposed to deal with'jhis .He. read the following list now on.the Order Paper,' which it' was.;propossd to try and,'complete :— -.-.industrial Conciliation and Arbitration At&ridnieiit Bill (to bo further considered in.'eojnwittee). . -fining. Amendment -Bill .'(to bo committ«l)--; . ■ Cii'l;,Mines- Amendment Bill (to be eommitfal).; ;:V.'»ipbka Block ltoad. Revesting Bill (sCCOnii. rMdinß). ...... (■inferior Courts i'rccedure Bill (to be com-BiUt-d'i. v'i'ishwiej.. Amendment Bill (second readins!. ..HiHond Ballot Bill (consideration'of amend- ' 6(- Uia • Legiilatira '.Couiiri]). ; . :lijcal Bodioj'.Loaiii Aniendiu»nt Bill (to be eoifiiiiitted).' ' '.ticTi'mHiiwn Advances to. 'Sotilara. Amendmt'.i'ltfiiiH (kcoud readiiia). ■ .. Coiiiaiaaioi.'s Bill (to bs committed); ; %iu«ati(ja .Amtiidment Bill (to' b« fwrt-har cc;i>i-ui!i-iid in •' , Ai'U liik-rprutatiou, bill (to be coramiitcil)'. . . PMttori Laiid La-,v« Bill (aecond. reading), .vliij'.additieu to theas wer.e , the considera'-' tion .of. ,th» r#port. of t)ys •. Parliamentary Builijiugj, Committee, and the report,of the. Laid .Committee on • th» Woodward .Street fcrangiefcioii, 'i'h» Jlaori' Land' Laws Amendment Bill would bo circulated to-morrow. 'It would be

a small Bill. Tho Advances to Workers Bill would be included in the Advisees ta Settlers Bill if possible. The Law .Practitioners Bill would stand over —(loud laughter)—till next session. (A member, ironically: "W# all want that Bill.") Education Bill. As. to the Education Bill, the Minister intended to go en with it on the understanding that the amendment (regarding uniform books) was not insisted upon. Mr. Wilford (tlu mover of tie *Mtndment): "Ther» is no such understanding with me." The Prime Minister: The only person wh» had a. right to hare policy matters put'in a Bill was the Minister in charge. Mr. Massey: 1 can't agree.with that! The Prime Minister t.'»,s understood to say that in matters of poliey it was as he had stated. ... Jir. Tanner: Don't be side-tracked by an argument. (Loud Laughter.) The Primo Minister: I.will take tho honmember's advice, and not bo side-tracked. (Laughter.) . He went on to enumerate other Bills not on tho Order Paper, which lie proposed to go on with. They werc_,as follow:—Validation Court Inquiry Bill"(to bo circulated soon); a Public Works Bill, to enable tho utilisation of water-power for mining purposes; an Old Age Pensions Bill (a small measure, which should bo circulated soon, and'which should be put through without much trouble)'; a Heavy Traffic Bill (to bo introduced in the Upper House): Immigration Restriction Bill, dealing with tho Bill of/last year restricting the entry into tho Dominion, of Chinese—tho Royal Assent had been obtained on the understanding that this amendment, which would exclude from tho operation of tho Bill Chineso already in tho country, would go through; an amendment to tho Public. Servico and Superannuation Act, to include also the local bodies, would bs put through, if possible, in a joint measure. No Wash-up BHI. Thero would be no wash-up Bill this session,' and this was the cause for a number of -small Bills, which otherwise would not be on tho list. These small Bills would be Hau- : raki' Plains Bill (to meet financial feciuirbments on certain work in connection with the Piako Swamp); the Hamilton Domain Bill; the Goro Public Library Bill; a small amendment to. the Defence Act, dealing purely with administrative matters; and a Bill to validate tho exchange of land for a,ment?J hospital between the Government and the Wellington Hospital Board. . > ', No National Annuities., The National Provident Bill (to be circulated in a few, days) to provide a system ofnational annuities would bo allowed to stand orer'- until next session. An opportunity should be given for full consideration of this important measure. Other Bills. , A Railways Authorisation Bill would bo circulated providing for one or two extensions. It was net his intention t6 put under. way any new works this session. The programme in the Public Works' Statement was about as large as could be undertaken. A Fire Brigades Bill would be passed dealing with the finances of the Are boards, and a Stamp Act Amendment Bill to adjust two matters, the most important, of which ; /was ■ to provide, the right of appeal to the Supreme Court on valuations. As the law stanas the Stamp Department was the final authority, in deceased . persons'estates. The amendment was important. (Hoar, hear.) The House would. also bo asked to pass the Workers' Compensation Bill, which' would como back from the Labour Bills Committee .soon. A small Bill jvould also be wanted in connection with' the amalgamation of tho Stato Fire and. Insurance Departments. Other measures were tho Palmerstbn 'North Daily School Bill; Taieri -Floods Bill, Auckland University College Bill (to validate titles), and the Chriatchurch Racecourse Reserves Bill, . ,' ' ' Bills Dropped. ■ Mr. Fisher (■ Wliat 1 l 'ab6ut- f '"the,''ifnoii'Sly" Socioties Bill? Tlio Prime Minister : Tpropose to ask the House to.hold .it ovoruiitir next session. "' Sir William.Steward: What about tho Hos-. pital 8i11?..,' ... .; • Tho Prime Minister: "We are not going on with it at present." -Tho Post Audit Bill, now. before the Public Accounts Committee, it was also proposed to hold over until nest session. ,

The List. Of the whole of tho Bills lie -had enumerated there wero ten-whibh ho -would call important, and which should bo passed.' They, were as fellows:— Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Bill. . : - / ' ■ Education Bill' (amondmeiits). Workers' Compensation Bill. - • : Coal-piines Act Amendment Bill. '- \ . Lacsl Bodies' lyoans Amendment Bill. ■ .Government Advances to Settlers : Bill. , Public Service Classification and Superannuation ,Act Amendment Bill. Heavy Traffic Bill. Old Age Pensions Bill. , The measure to confer powers to utilise ' water for mining purposes; '> . The Bills would all be put in the sequence of their importance-on the Order Paper. A» to the work'ahead, he thought, with the -Arbitration Bill through, they should be able_ t» adopt' the ( PuMie Works' Statement to-riight, and so get through with the Esti-mates-.on Friday.; (Opposition interjeotions.) Friday V/ook! ■ : " Very'well," said tho' Prime Minister. But Jie ,saw., no reason' why tJioy should . not ..bo ablo to complete tho work" without; any .difficulty by Friday week if they applied.themselves to it; (Laughter'from all parts of the House.) Sir Joseph Ward: The Leader of tho Opposition smiles; but:,ho will recognise that tho -Arbitration .'Bill is, nearly through. '. Mr.'Massey: Tlireo day's yet!'. The Primo Minister continued that there was no reason • why v tho House should not meet in the mornings next,week'. (Oh! Oh! Oh!) '"

' Mr. Poland:' What's the hurry? . Sir Josoph Ward said there was no hurry. It was only desired to let the members get away. It was .quite easy. to„ say stay -hero for the nest three weeks; but. if'lion, mcmbors wore as desirous as.:ho'understood a good many of them'were of trying to help , tho passing of the legislation and bringing the session to a close without rushing, tho important Bills could be put through, and the minor ones would not take very long then to finish. He saw no reason why all the important Bills could not. be soon out of the way, 'and the minor-ones dealt with without much delay. Then followed cross-questions between tho Prime Minister and the Opposition." The Prime Minister then 'said that all he wanted' to do ' waji to do the work ■ '■ quickly ' and as ■ well as they could. If they found'they could not get done they could continuo an-other-week, and if iiiedess'ary still another week. (Hear, hoar.) Whilo there'was now a desire tosay " don't copfino tho business to any limited period, "'thoro would bo a movement beforo long tp bring tho session .to an'end and got away. , Time Enough! Mr, Hardy: Time enough! Sir Joseph Ward said lib would not be surprised to. find the voice of tho lion, member raised in. fareur of . getting away beforo l° n S- . -'■■■■ Mr. Hardy: Oh; I'm not in a hurry!. ': The Prime Minister: No. I am not either. Nono.of us are. He added that an opportunity would be.giren for local Bills, and lie honed the contentious enes would not be allowed to block the passage 'of others. Dates for the debttei m the Parliament Buildings site and the Woodward Street matter would, bo arranged. In answer to a qnestion, the Prime Minister said the Bill dealing with agricultural praduee would be drspped. Mr. Mnssetf's Remarks., The LEADER, of. the OPPOSITION, who spoke with ■ difficulty,:, said lie had no desire to protract the session. But lie would not agree to. sitting in. the mornings. (Hear, hear.) It was absolute slavery,

especially for those who had t« be constantly. present to see that every part of the Srovineei was properly considered. (Hear, ear.) As the long list of measures had been read out the end «f the session had seemed fc« hi»\ to fade away into the dim distance. It Memed alio that all the Bills had not been detailed. There was the increased naval subsidy, for instance. This had been promised over and »gti>i. The Prime Minister said it could be introduced in the Appropriation Bill. llr. Musey said a more satisfactory way would be t« introduce a septr»te Bill. Mr. lanrensen: Let it stand over for another year. Mr. Mafloej was surprised to lie.ir the suggestion from a loy.il, member like Mr. L*tnren«on. Now was the time to have the Bill. (Hear, hear,). Mr. Massey also asked for the Noxious Weeds Bill. Thoy were all anxious. to get to their constituencies, but it was necessary to do tlioir work properly even if they did not get tho second ballot ever until after tho Christmas ' holidays. (Laughter.) Mr. LAURENSON took Mr. Massey to task for attacking him overy time ho interjected. Ho declared it was important to hold the naval subsidy over or givo full time for its consideration, sinc.o fchc proposal was to inc.rea.se tho present amount two and a. .half times. Mr. HARDY, who jumped immediately to his feet on tho member for Lyttelton sitting down, took up the cudgels on Mr. Massey's behalf against Mr. Laurenoon. Mr. HARDY mado some sarcastic remarks abtiut Mr. ITornsby. Mr. WILFORD, amidst laughter, pleaded for peace. . Naval Subsidy. ' The ■ PRIME MINISTER said tho intento provide for tho increased naval subsidy m tho Appropriation Bill, and members would be asKcd to carry it this session.- As to the Noxious Weeds Bill, his Colleague the Minister for Agriculture, had said that it tho stato of the Order Paper permitted it would bo gone on with. It was a contentious measure. lii conclusion, the Prime Minister asked tho House to co* operate in putting the business through, Friendly Societies Bill. ■ , Mr. FISHER asked, whether it would not bo possible provide an opportunity for passing the Friendly Societies Bill this session.

. The PRIME MINISTER said the position in regard to one important point in tho Bill wis such that further consideration' by thoso affected was desirable beforo an attempt was made to pass it. The Druids, numbering 16,000, took Strong exception. to Clauso 13, while the other friendly societies, numbering 40,000 members, were stronglv in'favour of the clauso. This indicated that if the Bill e*me forward this session thero would bo a good deal of controversy on the floor of tho House. ' It, therefore, seemed best not to pr«ceed with tkr Bill this session. An Appsel fer Rudress, Mr. T. H. DAVET brought up the case of a young m«n at Christchurch, who, lie said, had-been deprived of the privilege of " registration as a dentist owing to his application bring received while the Registrar-General was taking a holiday, tnd not opened until his return, which was after the expiry of the time fixed for'registration. The PRIME MINISTER said the matter would receive the fullest consideration. He believed the holiday referred to ,was a regular gazetted holiday, Registration had. only been rofused after the opinion of the Crown law. officers had been' taken. The Prime Minister also read a letter from the Minister for Public Health (Hon. G. Fowlds), in .which it was stated that an applicationin the matter could bo mado to the Senate of the University of New Zealand. The matter would bo looked into again. with a view of seeing whether special legislation should be introduced. l Mr. MAJOR said lie thought Parliament would support spccial legislation in this case.

ARBITRATION BILL. FURTHER COMMITTEE PROCEEDINGS. _ Consideration of. tho Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Bill (Hon. J. A..Millar) .'in committee, was resumed at Clause 30. Clauso 35 was adopted with drafting amendments. Clause 30, sub-clauso' 1, as proposed by the'. Minister •to be amended was as foilaws:-- ■

After the expiration of one month from, the dato fixed in pursuanco of Section 28 hereof for the.hoaring of the dispute) tho council shall, unless a settlement of the disputo, has been sooner arrived at by the parties and embodied in an industrial agreement duly executed in nrnnnsr afore- i said, make such recommendation for the settlement of the dispute according to the merits and substantial justico of the case as the council thinks fit, and shall state in its re- . commendation whether tho failure of the parties to arrive at a settlement was due to the unreasonableness or unfairness of any of the parties to the dispute.' Mr. J. ALLEN moved, to strike out all words after "in manner aforesaid," with a riew to < inserting "notify the clerk of awards that no agreement has been arrived at.' 1 He urged that this would make for true conciliation, but otherwise the councils would simply become lower Courts like the existing..Conciliation Boards. The amendment was . carried on the voices. A new* sub-clause, providing for separate recommendations in case of disagreement en tho council had been given notice of by the Minister, but was abandoned. .

Disputes Roforretl to tho Court. - Clause 38, with ameudnlonts pronosed by the: Minister, was as follows:— t -~ . •' Every notification so -made by tho council or by the assessors shall bo, in writing, signed by tho commissioner, and shall bo delivered to tho clerk of awards for the industrial district- in which tho dispute arose. The clerk of awards shall forthwith refer the dispute to the Court for settlement, alid thereupon tho dispute shall .'be deemed to bo before the Court. . The clause was adopted.

Memorandum of Consent. Clause 39, which tho Labour Bills 'Committee had struck out, was amended"and reinstated. ■ It stands -part. of the Bill as fallows:—- ■

-(I.) At' any time before tho coun-" oil'a recommendation is delivered to the clerk of awards, all or any of tho. ' applicants and respondents may, by meniorandum of consent in'tho pre- ' scribed form, executed by tliomsolves or their attorneys (but not i by their representatives), and de- • livored to the clerk of awards, agreo ' - .to accept the recommendation of the ' councilmid in. such case tho recommendation, when delivered to .the .' clerk of .awards, together with the said memorandum or consent, .shall operate -and be enforceable in tho same manner' in all respccts as an '' ' industrial agreement duly executed and filed b.v tho parties by or on whoso behalf tho momorandum- of . consent has been so executed. , .. _'(2.) Save' as between- those ,par- '• ties by . or. on' whoso .behalf a memorandum of consent has been executed in accordance with this section, the recommendation of the council shall in iio case have any binding forco or 'effect, but shall operate merely " • as a snggestion for the'. .amicable' settlement of tho dispute by mutual agreement, and as a public, a'n'noiincewent of the. opinion of the council as to the merits of the dispute. • Clause 40 was adopted as. follows . The eeuneil may at any time state a .ease f»r the advice oi' #pinion of the Court. ■ Clause 41 (parties not bound by memorandum of consent may refer dispute to tho Court) and Clause 42 (on failure for one month-of council, to make recommendations parties, may refer dispute.'to Court) had been struck out biv tho Labour Bills Com-

niittee, and were now reinstated on the motion of the Minister. Clauses <3 and <4 were passed as reported from the Labour Bills Committee. Minimum Membership of New Unions. Discussion arose on Clause 45, which, as amended by the Labour Bills Committee, makes threo the minimum number of members of a new union of employers, and fifteen the minimum number for a new union of workers. The MINISTER said there had been registration of six or seven, unions in one industry where one would have been enough. They were started for the object of getting a vote for the labour representative on the Arbitration Court. If thero were not as many aa fifteen men in a trade, they could not do themselves much good by forming a union. They, ought in most cases to form subbranches of other unions. After tho exhibition he had seen in the freezing trado and elsewhere,, lie objected to tho way men had been duplicating unions all over the country. He had first proposed 25 members as tho minimum, but had. accepted 15 as a compromise, and he did not mean to go any lower. Mr. POLAND submitted that the number soven could bo retained without injury to any of tho parties, and Section 11 of tho principal Act could bo relied upon to prevent duplication of unions. Mr. BARCLAY argued that bona fide unions of seven members should bo allowed. The Farm Labourers' Dispute. Mr. HERRIES hoped the Minister would stick to his proposal. Ho believed that seven Canterbury farm labourers had caused the industry and the country all the expense and trouble of tho late dispute. Ho suggested that tho membership minimum might be fixed according to the number ,of workers in tho trade. Mr. W. W. TANNER said that Sir. Herries's statement as to seven farm labourers bringing about the dispute was a mistake; tho seven represented several thousands. Tho application for registration was signed by seven, as was the usual practice. The seven were the nucleus around which the union gathered. He would direct the attention of members to the fact that- the-largo numbers of labourers employed by the Railway Department wero at present unable to join the A.S.R.S. or form any union of their own. Ho did not,attach great importance to tho clause.

The Hon. A. R. GUINNESS counselled tho rotention of the number at,seven, and said tho point as to voting for a representative on the. Arbitration Court could bo met. by giving each unionist, instead of each union, a vote. On a division, a motion to strike out the clause, and thus leave tho minimum number of workers who may form a union as at present, viz., seven, was defeated by 47 to 20. Tho clause as amended was passed. 'Clause 46 was passed as amended by the Labour Bills Committee. Basis of Votlr.s. Clause 47 deals with tho election of a representative on tho Arbitration Court, and gives ono -vote to every union having not more thai! fifty members, and ono vote for every complete fifty members of larger unions.'

The principle of "one unionist, one rote" rras upheld by the Hon. A. R. .Guinness and Mr. ■ Barclay. The MINISTER said this would not give the small unions a fair chance, and it would cause great and needless expense to the unions in sending out notices, etc. Mr. Barclay's amendment —"each member of an industrial union shall have ono voto" —was defeated by 45.t0 19. The clause was then passed. False Entrlos. Uio MINISTER moved to add tho following sub-clauses ; to Clause 4S:— Every person who wilfully makes any false entry in any wages-book or overtime-book is liable to a fine not exceeding fifty jxiunds. All lines under this section shall bo rocoverablo summarily before a magjstrato in accordance with tho Justices of the Peace Act. Intervening clauses having . been passed with slight amendments, Clause 53, which deals ■ with the issuo of unddrrrato permits by. Inspectors of Factories, was amended by the addition ofthe following _ proviso, moved by Mr. Taunor: —"Provided that this scction shall not apply in any caso whero by an award of tins Court other provision _ has been made to control tho issuo of permits in any particular, industry." Clause 58 empowers the Arbitration Court to refuse to mako an award, if it considers that for any reason an award ought not to be made in tho matter of that dispute. Mr. BARCLAY moved ail amendment to mako it mandatory on tho Court to mako an award, unless prohibited by statute law. He asked what would be thought of a Supremo Court judge if ho refused to give a decision lest ho should annoy or inconvenience one or other party. 1 Legislation by Agresmsnt. The Hon. A. R. GUINNESS supported the amendment. He said that the Minister was able to provent any amendment being carried, because he had a majority at his command. _ Legislation by agreement was going on. When the division bell rang, a number of membors came in, saw how tho Ministor was Toting, and voted with himj without knowing clearly what they wero voting on. Tho amendment was strongly supported bv Mr. Davey and Mr. Colvin. Tho MINISTER said no other Court was dictated to, as proposed in the amendment. The Court must have power to refuse an award in frivolous cases. Mr. HOGAN said tho Court already had power to refuso an award, and had done so, but to enact tho clause desired by tho Ministor would encourage it to do so, and would therefore be unfair to workers who went to the trouble of forming a. union and applying for an award. Dr. CHAPPLE said there were many things in tho Court's recommendations on the farm labourers' caso which could not have been embodied in an award. Who was to define, for instance, "tho busy season"? Mr. ELL Said he could not conceive an industry in which an award could not be mado on some counts.

Some Difficulties. Tho MINISTER said no legislation regulating farm labour could bo found in any part of the world. In the New South Wales Act there was a' schedule of industries that could take advantage of tho arbitration system, and farming was not one of them. Ho thought thero might be such a schedulo to the New Zealand Act some day. Mr. TANNER said that tho Court, in tho Canterbury case, had, overridden tho intentions of 'the Parliament which constituted it. Ho had seen a bank-to-bank clauso for coalmines passed repeatedly, and tho way in which it was evaded did credit to the' ingenuity of tho Court. Tho Court had brought itself into deserved contempt.Mr. ALISON said members who criticised the Arbitration-Court liko the last speaker were not cognisant of the facts. 110 defended the action of tho Court in regard to tho bank-to-bank clause, which, ho said, caused the consumer to pay Is. a ton moro for coal. A member: Then tho consumer had to pay, not tho mine-owner. Mr. ALISON: Tho consumer has to be protected. ' ■ Mr. COLVIN said that the coal-owners put on Is. and took 6d. of it for themselves. The amendment was lost by 45 to 17, and the clause was retained by 37 to 25. Clauso 59, as amended by tho Minister on the Supplementary Order Paper, was adopted. Now Clauses. ■ The new clauses were then procoeded with. CLuiss, 21a. providing that penalties may be recovered in tho Court of Arbitration, was adopted. Progress was then reported, and the House rose'at 1.30 a.m. The Minister for Justice: "It is not proposed to mako any alteration in tho remuneration of coroners, as tho present scale is considered adequate."