THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 304, 17 September 1908, Page 9

THE HOUSE.

THE ARBITRATION BILL. SECOND READING DEBATE. The Speaker took the cbair at 2.30 p.m. The greater part of tho afternoon was occupied m discussing Ministerial replies to ques- , tions. ' The MINISTER FOR LABOUR (the Hon. J. A. Millar), in moving tho second reading 'of 'the Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act Amendment Bill, said lie had to deal With one ■Of tho most'difficult problems of tho tirile. 1 .It'was 1 a problem iVhich' was not merely local, but Was world-wide in its application. It bccame moro difficult the nloro'one looked, into it. In this country we had had ' dxperionco of the" arbitration system for some , years, and though "many people maintained that it had been an absolute failure,, the'/; experience of other countries by comparison; showed "that it had been a very great "success. 1 There had been an endeavour on the part of many people discontented with the social conditions to introduce strife into thfe country and create a discontent with tho .view of upsetting tho present system, but the people of Now Zealand would . have none of them. (Hear, hear.) Thoy were'determined that tile present system should be maintained. Thfl Cause of Discontent, , ' Much of tho dissatisfaction which had been voiced against tho Court recently was duo to the. fact that tho Workers had not obtained throughout .those increases of Wages which they had hoped for. Prior, to'tho in- • ception of the Act tho state of things regarding wages .for many years in this country had been very bad, but was on the upward tendency about that time, and for a good many years the Court had been in the position* of improving the condition of tbo worker by increasing .wage?, shortening tbo .number' of limlrs, ,limitiii2 the Dumber of boys and girls, and improving matters all through. But they had readied a Stage when ,it was an'-'aJiSbluto impossibility for the: Court to contiiiue'doing that. It was as well to tell tho Workers frankly what was'the position. The meli he had referred to seemed to think that all tho Arbitration Court had to do was to give an inoreaso in | wages. • ' They then complained in the san(e • ' breath that such increases til lit they did get wero valueless becauso absorbed by tho in-,

•crease in the cost of living. Did thoy suppose that the employer would'bear all tho cost of higher wagos? Tlie cost of tho higher wages must bo passed on, and the workers, as consumers, must boar their share. Increase tho Tariff! Somo said that tho object desired could bo obtained by increasing tho Customs tariff. Ho denied that absolutely, because to in--creaso tho tariff was to handicap our exports. The: limit of anything that could bo done ill tho way of increasing wages depended on tho cost of our products and the price wo could sell them at in other countries. Our tariff was non-protective, but was designed to help local industries. If .wo increased wages too high it would permit tho imported article to como in, which would mean the dcclino of employment in our industries. . Not Effective. During tho past two years it had bocomo apparent that tjio machinery of tho Act was not offectivo. This had been proved. . Tlie object then became to'see by wuat means it could bo improved, and to that end ho had set himself tho task of studying tho systems of other countries. He natl studied tho Wages, Boards of Australia and the Canadian Act, and ho had gone carefully into them and found defects in all. Tho Wages Boards System set up practically a board which refused to recogniso unions or unionism nt all. Tho boards wero formed from tho trade and did not recogniso unionism. Ho thought there would bo a greater chance of peace if they could got both sides from tho compact bodios, .instead ,of .snipers out from both sides. Ho had, therefore, tried to preserve unionism, both for the employers and the employees. Failure of conciliation Boards. In tho present system ■ tho Conciliation Boards were the first stage in tho settlement of disputes; but they had failed. Thus tho. Government proposed that they should bo "abolished, and although tho representatives of tho workers throughout tho country had said they did not desire their abolition, he thought lie could show, reason why it should bo done. The Conciliation Board much conciliate and prevent, troubles and disputes going to tho Court. Had that been the result obtained in the past? ("No! Nol Tho very opposite.") Unfortunately it had notr- There wero some who had said the ""Willis", blot was responsible. But it was not. Tho blot was the whole system. In tho Board sittings they had adyocatca fighting for both sides. It had been getting worse and. worse each year,, until it had got to such a' stage until—well, in the last threo years' the Conciliation Boards' had cost the country £3000 odd, and' had 1 settled . eightdisputes. He. would reply, to those who said that the "Willis" blot was responsible.' He would quote tho number of cases referred | to the Conciliation Boards before the passing of the "blot" and since. This the Minister did to show the proportion of-disputes unsettled was about tho samo before tho passing of tho clause as after. The fact that somo of the unionists had , got it. into their, heads that they could go to tho. board 'and fight every inch of jthe way. The board had developed into a lower Court. (Hear, hear.) Look Elsewhere. . Now, had conciliation been a success in any other part of the world? Mr. Massey: Yes._ , Mr. Millar: I say it'has.. In New' Zealand wo had but a. handful .of workers. Ho quoted tho report of Mr. Fox to the British Board of Trade, which was very favourable to conciliation and its results at Homo. Our Act had Beeni a failure owing to our methods. In Canada.it was laid down that tliero should be stoppage of work until thirty days had elapsed after notice of intention to .strike. During ,that period committees were .set-up, and they endeavoured to bring.;abput f a.settle-, ment.. "The best thing you can dri to prevent a strike," said Mr. Millar ,_ "is to plead for time. If'you can got j time you can go into, tho whole thing l and look'>rOund: about you." Almost all strikes wero tho 'result' of agitation. jafyAftr ifeiH'Jlme and in most cases they could be prevented from.- occurring. Tho Best Thins. After, therefore, consultingiall othor.systems, he had come to the conclusion that tlio best thine , to do would be to provido machinery to bring both sides together. They, must endeavour also to prevent men stepping in who had no interest in the matter at issuo. '. (Hear,- hear.),, ' "I; am sorry to say that there are men in this country whoso one object seems to be to cause trouble." (Hear, ■ hear.) , They would bo thought a good deal more, of by the members of their unions if they mado less trouble. (Hear, hear.) And in saying that he was speaking with pretty good knowledge "of union matters, (Hear, hoar.) . The. real feeling of the. men did not . always appear in tho pj-ess reports or was given forth in tho streets. Ho, could show letters ho had received at-various'times from the men themselves which would put a different complexion on matters. Cost of Conciliation. v - Tho Conciliation Boards, he proceeded, had cost tho country in the last three years £3000 odd, and there was a steady increase, which told its tale. He gave tho following figures for tho various districts: —

Otago, ho proceeded, was,practically tho only district showing a decrease. In these threo years eight disputes had been settled by the boards, aud comparing them with tho number coming forward it was not difficult to appreciate the position. But ho would not mind if tho cost was twico as much if they were only getting industrial peace. (Hear, hear.) The Minister proceeded to deal with tho cry that our law was a failure because it failed to prevent strikes. But the law nover intended to prevent strikes, and nover would. "(Mr. Tanner: "Hear, hear.") No law would prevent strikes. It would discourage thom, and the object of this Bill was to continuo to discourago strikes, bocaiiso thoy Tvcro a national calamity. Like tho boomerang, they generally returned to hit tho thrower. This was tho experience in New Zealand. 11l tho caso of tho Blackball miners, before' tho striko tho wagos had boon 12s. a day. As tho result of tho strike the men had lost in penalties close on £1500, and another £400 was in course of collection—nearly £2000 going in penalties! Some Rccords. He desired to put 011 record somo further figures in tho hope that students of political economy who came to New Zealand to study our laws would go into them' before going away and dcerying tho results of our legisLet thom bo compared "with otner countries. Tho first strike occurred in November, 1906, twelve years after tho Act was passed. It occurred in connection with tho Auckland tramways. Tho ; iiumbcr of hands 1 involved was 66, and tho number of others thrown out of employment 14, a total of 80. Tho duration of the striko was two or threo hours, and the workers lost £11 and tho company £44. Other cases quoted wero as follow: —Auckland tramways, May, 1906, 22 men out, others thrown idle 25, duration of striko 4 days 4 hours, loss of wagos to men £425, loss to tile company £1110; 'slaughtermen's striko, <18 men out, bringing out 134 others, duration 5 days, wages lost to men £221, loss to the company £1000; Wellington bakers' strike, 41 strikers, S) others involved, duration of striko 7G days, loss of wages £830,j loss to Employers £326; Poteno slaughtermen, 11 men struck, 50 others involved, duration of striko 16 days, loss of wages £321, loss to company £500; Many of the strikes quoted by tho Minister wero for a few hours only. • ' Continuing, tho Minister said that sinco 1894' to tho present timo only 23 strikes .had occurred. Mr. Poland: Do you include tho telegraph messongers? (Laughter,) Thu Minister: The total number of strikers

was 1117. By their action 2359 wero rendered idle. Tho total aggregate duration of tho strikes was 31G days 14 hours. Tho loss to tho mon/was £17,067 in wages, and to employers £15,685. A sum of £5000 had been recovered in penalties front tho men. This showed tho cost of strikes in this country. From tho initiation of tho Act until thijt day, out of all tho fines inflicted on employers 884- per cent, had been paid, and of thoso inflicted 011 workers 84 per cent., and ho submitted that the difference was very small between the two classes. The Maritime Strike. ' Ho had been reminded that ho was onco tho leader of, a strike, and it had been said that ho had Icompletoly turned round and altered his position. In 1800, before tho big strike, 110 stated in evidenco that ho bolioved there should be a judge appointed permanently to deal with labour disputes, assisted by three representatives of each side, and empowered to give decisions that would bo binding on both parties for the next six or twelve months. It was well known that 110 did all 110 could to prevent tho striko taking place—(hoar, hear)—but as a paid servant of tho union which carried tho resolution -to strike lie had to do his best to help them. 110 would have expected that thoso most interested in this Bill—tho workerswould havo given him somo help in framing it, but 110 had hardly had a practical suggestion from any of the unions. There had been a suggestion of a statutory minimum wago, but nothing was said of how to arrango it or make it apply all over the colony Any fixed minimum, say Is. an hour, would soon become tho maximum. Another union suggestion was statutory prefcronco to unionists, but no Parliament would ever grant that. Tho main principlo of the Bill was to bring back truo conciliation. Limitations of the Law. The Minister proceeded to deal with all the moro important clauses of tho Bill seriatim. Clauso 3 clearly laid it down that a strike was not deemed a continuing offenco with a continuing penalty. When a man had struck, ho was fined, and there was an cud of it. . Some people, who seemed to havo lost their heads, wanted the Government to go to extremes against'strikers, but it should be remembered that a striko was simply a broach of a civil contract; there was nothing criminal about it. A strike could only take placo where an award existed, and this was right, because under no other law but tho Arbitration Act was _ a strike an offence. The Bill dealt 1 onlv with memb'ers of unions' registered under the Act. Unions could bo registered under tho Trades Union Act, and then they would have to make'their separate bargains with the employers without tho assistance of the Court. Aiding and Abetting. The old Act, while it absolutely prevented a union using its own funds to support any of its members on striko, had no provision against a union spending all its money in supporting strikers who belonged to another union. To meet this position, it had now been made clear that a striko was a continuing offence so far as aiding and abetting was concerned. In connection with tho clause prohibiting press comments on • a strike; the Minister said somo of ,tho statements and articles that had appeared in the .newspapers had not tended to promoto industrial peace. (Hear, hear.) When a union saw in the papers that another union had sent money to strikers, they-'felt bound to do likewise, though they might not approve of tho strike. If tho only information about it came in private letters this would often hot. be tho case. Suspension of Awards. Clause' 9, dealing with strikes in certain specified industries, was justified by tho Minister on familiar lines. In regard to tho proposal to suspend an award upon tho occurrence of a striko, Mr.-Millar said that if men practically said an award was so bad that thoy could not. work under it, tliero could bo -no great 1 Harm'''in ''suspending it. This would also meet the ease of somo of tho unions who did'not 'want' the Act. Ho thought'it was absolutely fair that no othor union should bo formed in the district for a period. A Member: You aro going to punish tho innocont with the guilty. Mr. Millar: We are going to!punish those who deservo it. Thoso who havo taken tho benefit of an award and violated it. Mr. Barclay: What about new men ? Mr. Millar: They can't form a nnion until the expiry of an award. Tho minority will have to submit to that. Part 111, dealing with enforcement of awards and agreements, wns a great change from the present law. All cases would-be taken in tho Magistrate's Court, which was the proper placo, as they were questions of fact, 'and delays such as had occurred would be avoided. Exponso would be saved to the Department by the provision that two clear days' notico must bo'given if a case is to be defended. In tho past the. Department had gono to theexpense of summoning witnesses and preparing a case, only to lwvo tho defendant plead, guilty. Tho magistrate would, however, have power to grant costs against tho Department, but so fai tho Department had been wonderfully successful in tho cases it had brought. It was intended that such cases should bo brought always by tho Department, but tho Department 1 would not tako up trivial cases, and therefore, to avoid the unions feeling aggrioved, thoy must be allowed to bring cases, but tho fines would go to tho Consolidated Fund. This would dis-1 courage anyone but the' Department! taking action for breaches of awards. .Dealing with the attachment bf wages as taking tho .-place of' imprisonment | of strikers, the Minister said they must havo somo way of collecting tho fines from strikers so that there could bo oven-handed justice between tho two parties. (Hear, hoar.) This method would only bo used with men who refused to pay. If a man was paying, even in small instalments, no action would bo taken against him. Conciliation. Part 111, dealing with conditions, was the most radical portion of tho Bill. If passed it would make for true conciliation. Ho intended to propose an amendment giving tho Conciliation Commissioner power undor certain conditions to accept one assessor not a member, of the trade concerned in tho dispute. This would obviate threo women workers having to contend against threo keen business men. This system of conciliation would be a return towards\what tho founder of , tho Act designed. Tho system was.founded .on that successfully oporated in England by tho Board of Trade, and-if English workmen could stato their cases satr isfactorily so could New Zoalanders. Ho proposed _to_ insert a new clauso enabling tho Commissioner to tako such steps as he might doom -necessary for effecting a settlement right' up to a caso coming bel'oro the -Court. The matter of under-rato' permits had been 0110 of tho most difficult matters to deal with," but the right thing would bo dono in placing the granting of such permits in the hands of the inspectors, as they wero in the best position to know to whom they shoiild be granted. The last clauso would relievo the Department from a dilemma, as thoy' had sometimes been apparently unablo to enforco an award without causing a breach of statute law and vice versa. He'hoped that by passing_ tho Bill thoy would promoto tho prosperity of the country; safeguard the interests of tho workers, and make things'better all round than thoy wero, before. (Applause.} SPEECH BY MR. MASSEY. The LEADER of tho OPPOSITION (Mr. Massey) said that whilo lie did not agrco with all that the Minister had said, 110 did agrco with him that tho question boforo the House was an extremely difficult one. "Compulsory arbitration has fn.iled," declared Mr. Massey. "The provisions of the Act that deal with it havo broken down. Tho lion, gentleman knows it. Every lion, member knows it." It must bo admitted that tho Government had been unablo to enforce the law, and the question was whether they would loavo compulsory arbitration aside and simply go in for conciliation. lie was a strong believer in conciliation. It was tho duty of Parliament, if possible, to placo 011 tho Statute Book a law that would bo fair to both sides and would not cause either employers or workers to feel that their liberties, wore being unnecessarily curtailed— a law that would not discourago enterprise but would load to tho establishment and building-up of industries suitable to tlie couu-

try. He hoped they would bo able to do something to prevent the recurrence of such oven Is as had recently happened, but ho saw nothing adequate for that purpose in tho Hill. It ought to be made impossible for half-a-dozen agitators to hamper and harass an important industry employing thousands of men, liko tho agricultural industry of Canterbury. "Dead Against Compulsory Arbitration." "After what has happened during tho last few years," sa.id Mr. Massoy, "1 am dead against compulsory arbitration, and anyone who fools inclined to make political capital out of that is perfectly free to do so. Tli'o clauses that provide for that feature of tho system have done a tremendous lot of harm. TJicy have done away with that sympathetic accord wihcli used to exist between masters and 1 men in most of our industries." Sir. Massoy culled attention to a press report that at tho reccnt Trades Union Congress in England there was a majority of 454,000 against compulsory arbitration out of a million and-a half who voted. He also stated that Shadwell's "Industrial Efficiency," which ho described as probably the best work on industrial matters in tho English language, disposed of industrial arbitration in two lines, saying that voluntary arbitration was very.limited in its application, and compulsory arbitration was opposed to the English temperament. "I go further," said Mr. Massoy, "and I say it is un-English and un-British." Ho was strongly of opinion that tho Canadian system was preferable to tho existing law in Now Zealand or the new proposals. Proofs of Failure. The Minister had had a great deal to say of 'the success of tho Act, yet he had supplied the best possiblo proof of its failure 111 his long list of strikes. Mr. Laurenson: We don't call all of them strikes. Mr. Massoy said that many strikes were not mentioned by the Minister bccauso they wero not against tho law.' The alterations made in tho Bill by tho Labour Bills Committeo had, on the whole, considerably improved it, and he hoped it would becomo law with further improvements. He was rather pleased that imprisonment for striking was to bo done away with. No law could compel a man to work if lio did not feel inclined to; and no law could make a man employ another if he did not wish to. If tho Act could not be enforced without imprisonment they had better let it drop off the Statuto Book. Ho was also glad that the proposal to causo employers to deduct tho amount of fines for striking from wages had been abandoned, as it was unfair to both sides. Tho now provisions were! very much better. Tho most important change proposed in the Bill was tho now system of conciliation. He would have preferred tho less drastic and stringent provisions of tlio Canadian' Act. Ho was glad tho exertion wage clause had been struck out, as it was impracticable. Two Classes Hardly Treated. Tlioro were two classes of men who suffered under our arbitration system. One was the first-qlass man, tho expert workman, who could do 25 par cent, more work than tho average man. Under a fixed wago this worker did not feol inclined to do more than others, and the employer consequently did not feel inclined to pay him more. The othei man who was unfairly treated was tho thirdclass man, and ho did not think his position would be improved by tho Bill, which would compol him to go to the Department instead of to tho secretary of tho union for ail underrate permit. But tho principle that a man who uad grown rather old'for-his •employment should be compelled to beg for permission to work was bad. It was a degradation for such a man. Every man had a right to work, and to be paid in proportion to.the quantity and quality of what he did. Ho hoped they would be ablo to make some bettor provision in this matter than was contained either in tho existing law or in tho Bill. Ho welcomed clauso 49, as it would prevent such ' injustice as was done a fow months ago to a small employer in tho Auckland district, who was imprisoned. • A Creat Improvement, The Bill was a great improvement on tho existing law, and fie wanted' to help tho Minister to perfect it, hut tho compulsory principle was foredoomed to failure. Ho pointed to tho many important amendments that had been made from time to time, culminating in the introduction this year of a Bill quito different from that of last year, and tho recasting of this last Bill since it was introduced. No doubt, in another' yearor two, further amondments would bo required, and so it-would go on until tho principle of compulsory arbitration was abandoned. Has the Worker Benefited? Ho admitted that wages wero higher than tlioy wero ten years ago, but if there had bee-n no Arbitration Act, wages would, have gone up as a consequeiico of tho prosperity of tho country. Wages in tho agricultural industry, in which the Act had been very littlo used, had gono up as much as, or inoro than, in any other industry. But, while i wages had increased, the cost of living had increased, so as.to exceed in many cases tho increase in wages. At the Thames, in 0110 instance, tho Arbitration Court ■ increased tho wages of the workers in other industries, and left those of the miners untouched. The result was an increase of tho Jost of living, which was equivalent to a reduction in miners' wages. Ho was glad tho public wero taking; so much interest iu tho Bill. They were just beginning to see that statute law could not supersede economic law. (Applause.) THE PREMIER'S SPEECH. The PRIME MINISTER (Sir Joseph Ward) said lie was plea-sod to hear from tlio Leader of tlio Opposition that ao party capital wai to bo made of tho measure. The interests connected with it wero so vital that 110 0110 ought to treat it as a'party affair. He would ask tho lion, member to reviso his views as regards tlio success of arbitration. Lot him look back at what was going 011 boforo 1894.. Some of the workers, including women, were having almost the life blood sweated out of them at that time, making shirts at 3d. and 4d. each, for instance. The arbitration system was not responsible for tho increase in the cost of meat and other products, tho price of which was determined by tho London market. Wo could not afford, as a great exporting country, to havo low prices for our products. Tho condition of the workers had, on tho whole, greatly improved since 1891, though there had been some variations. As to the statement that tho Bill had been remodelled by tho Labour Bills Committeo, all tho important amendments wero moved by tho Minister for Labour, 1 Mr. Arnold: All tho amondments. Tho Prime Minister said the Cabinet did not mirtd whothor tho Bill had been turned insido out or not. They all wanted to help their colleague to improve it as much as possiblo. If tho original Act had been amended a good deal from timo to time, so had other measures, and it should bo remembered that this Act was a new departure from tho legislation of any country. The wonder was that a largo number of breaches of tho Act had not occurrod. If Arbitration Coes. Tlioy required to havo somothing more than conciliation, and tho only other thing was tho Arbitration Court. It was quito clear if they wero to do away with tho arbitration system, that tho law should bo repealed and a simplo form of conciliation instituted between the parties, very much tho same as in the Advances to Settlers. Department, iu which an agreement was drawn up to meet togethor for any disputo. • He had been against imprisonment all along. Ho was emphatic about that. .If' in tlio Blackball strike tlio Government had been weak enough, or stupid enough, to yield to the clamour that had gono 011 and had sent tho 111011 to gaol, in 48 hours tlioro would not havo been a coal-mine working in tho country. If 84 per cent, of tho lines of tlio workers had been collected, surely the Government wore justified in pointing to the past and saying their action had boon right—and more so, sinco bad they dono as many wanted and sent tlio men to gaol, the country's industries would have been rendered idle by the closing of the coal-mines. It had been acknowledged in connection with tho conciliation nvstom tli.it imprisonment oould not carried out. What was tho uao, there-

fore, of irresponsible persons clamouring for imprisonment? Tho Government had an onormous amount of responsibility to tho country at largo to carry iu this matter. Tho Bill had lawful proposals, and unless amendments were likely to improve it and not draw rod herrings across the scent, and introdiico side issues, they would bo better left unmoved. Ho regretted to hear, therefore, that Mr. Barclay proposed to move 50 amendments. (Laughter.) Mr; Barclay: They aro all good, too. ,Tlie Needs Wage. The Primo Minister went on to say that 'both sides had been against the needs wago principle in the measure, and, therefore, it was useless to discuss it in tho House. In conclusion, 110 desired to havo all preliminary clouds regarding tho Bill cleared away in this dobato so that they could get to work in Committeo and pass it through. Ho and his colleagues wero going to got the Bill through this session. (Hoar, hear.) Ho was glad to hear it was not going to be combated in a party spirit. A LABOUR MEMBER. Mr. A. R. BARCLAY (Duncdin North) did not agrco with' tho cancellation of tho conciliation boards. Ho argued that tho appointment of 0110 commissioner would bo insufficient. Tlio delays would bo equal to those occurring in connection with tlio Arbitration Court. Conciliation machinery should ho ready and available immediately. As. to his proposed amendments, there wero thirty or forty errors of draughtsmanship in tho Bill that would require to bo rectified. OTHER SPEAKERS. Mr. JAMES ALLEN (Bruce) regretted that the conciliation portion of tho Arbitration Act had not been wiped out altogether and greater powers for conciliation conferred. At present wo had two Courts of Arbitration. Two commissioners would bo insufficient for tho Dominion. Incidentally lie did not think it possiblo that sweating conditions could obtain in New Zealand because of the way tho country was agitated iu the cause of tho working man. Ho did not think that conciliation and compulsory arbitration would work together. It had been admitted ill tlio expert evidence that it was, practically speaking, impossible to provent a strike. If that wero so, what was tho good of attempting to regulate industry by compulsory arbitration? Compulsory arbitration had not benefited some of the workmen —the superior workman, for instance—since it fixed a minimum wage, and the minimum became generally tlio maximum wage. He insisted 011 the extremo importance of tho New Zealand workmen keeping a high standard in their workmanship, and this was an important fac-' tor for economists to remember. Wo had to get our men to do tho. very best for us. Mr. Allen quoted copiously from the evidence given to tho committee by Mr. G. Booth. Other Views. Mr. H. G. ELL (Christchurch) combated tho remarks of Mr. Allen. He advocated that spocial commissioners should bo sent out to ascertain the true conditions regarding tho. labour of' the country. He, personally, had had assurances from master bootmakers, furniture manufacturers, and others that tho skill of tho New Zealand worker was great, and that more than tho minimum wage was generally earned.. Ho sought to show that compulsory arbitration was a necessity. Mr. I'OOLE (Auckland) devoted tho greater portion of his remarks to labour conditions generally, and the evils of strikes.: 1 Ho approved tho. Bill, and tho principle of conciliation with force at the back. The Bill as it first went to the committeo contained clauses calculated to provoko a firsfc class riot, but tlio provision to put men under lock and key had been wisely eliminated. • ' Dr. CHAPPLE advocated one tribunal and one tribunal only, combining all tho functions of tho Conciliation Council with all the functions of a Court. Sinco no finality was provided in the Bill, tho new Conciliation Councils would bo 110 greater success than tho Conciliation Boards. There was 110 attempt to correct somo of tho evils of unionism. The Bill was a considerable improvement 011 existing legislation, but it could bo still further improved if tho Conciliation Councils wero constituted an export bench, and tlio jformer practically abolished, or if tho councils wore made final courts without appeal. Ho regretted that tho Minister for Labour had boon maligned ,by Labour leaders sinco 110 had dono his best. Anyone could see from his speech that evening how much in earnest 110 had been. His speech that evening had seemed to him very liko John Burns on his trial. A Blot Removed. Mr. HOGG (Masterton) was glad the blot of imprisonment had been removed, but he did not agree with tho Conciliation Councils being under a solitary commissioner. It would bo a gain if tho metropolitan districts wero separated from the country, sinco tho application of awards resulted unfairly. Mr. MANDER (Marsdeu) thought tho Minister was dealing fairly with a difficult matter, and he hoped the Bill would bo approached in committeo with a true desire to see the best done. 1 Mr. J. STALLWORTHY (Kaipara) contended that the Act had not failed, but lio was glad tho Minister was building his hopes 011 conciliation. Tho adjournment was moved by Mr. Davey, and tho House rose at 12.50 a.m.

1906 1907 . 1908 £ £ & Northern' dis . triot 19 5 0 78 IS 0 187 0 ,0 Taranaki ... 6 0 0 — — Wellington 121 19 0 630 3 0 937 0 0 Marlborough 1 1 0 9 0 0 — Nelson ... 87 18 0 9 4 0 6G 11 0 Wcstland 14 16 0 , — — Canterbury 33 0 0 537 8 0 440 0 0 Otago and Southland 104 0 0 103 0 0 60 0 0