PARLIAMENT.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 303, 16 September 1908, Page 9

PARLIAMENT.

SECOND BALLOT AND THE "GAG" CtiOSE. ' , THE BILL IN COMMITTEE. MANAWATU RAILWAY BILL. 'v. :, LOANS TO LOCAL BODIES. sitting of the Legislative) Council ■ was much the longest "of the sesjion, so far, and it'was almost entirely occupied by discussion on 'the Second Ballot Bill. 1 A determined fight: was; put up by a minority of- against the ."gag"', clause.. Compared with this, .the .deletion; of the 500 majority -proviso ;was a detail. Vt Tho' fight s ' against the : silencing of'tho press and the' "platform' was'.' kept " ujj until an ; early hour . this morning, its opponents evidently hoping to tiro out the supporters of' the clause. Tile-good humour of- tho proceedings was somewhat .disturbed at one stage by a closure motioii, which was moved- by Mr'. Beohan and carried. The clause was agreed to' with minor , amendments, soon' after : 1 a.m..,. -■' • •Little: time ~was - occupied in the House over the. v,vin" ; ttee; and third reading stages of the Wellington and, Manawatu Railway Purchase Bill. . The Public Bodies' Leases Bill,;, the Inspection of Machinery Amendment Bill, Declaratory Judgments Bill, arid tlio Impounding Amendment Bill, all passed their third'reading j the, second reading of tho In-, dust rial Conciliation and Arbitration Act Amendment Bill was postponed,' and the rest of the sitting; was spent; on: the second read-ing.:.qf-the Local.Bodies' Loans Amendment Bill/'-which was finally carried.- at midnight. "A good day's work," said the Prime Minister, .and : the; House then'rose.

THE COUNCIL

PARLIAMENTARY BUILDIMCS. Tho'report of the-Joint Committee'on the proposals ; for new Parliamentary Buildings was. read.. The Hon. J.T. PAUL (Otago) asked if the Council would be given an';opportunity .of discussing the report. .The ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Hon. Dr. Findlay)' said he was not yet prepared to express tho'mind of the Government on''the subject.

SECOND BILL. FURTHER PROTESTS. On tie motion to go into.'committee on-tho Second Ballot Bill, , .:. . The. Hon. J. It. ..SINCLAIR (Otago) objected to tlio inclusion of the proviso to Secton 27r-the 500 majority. He thought, the Government might make' this, concession to those who thought the proviso would defeat, the purpose of tRo Bill, though'lie did not take that view himseli. Referring to the "gag" clause, he paid there was danger in eaten phrases. If it was really a question of gagging the" prdss' there could be but one. answer. He thought the other House rea.llv wished for the clause, and that therefore the' 1 newspapers, as well as that Council, Ghould acquiesce.' Newspapiers always courteously refraiined 'from reporting portions of company and other meetings when desired to do so. The candidates at the second ballot would; be glad to' be prevented'from holding meetings,- <"> b'cicau'se/'.m'any of them would.be unable to stand the physical strain of a prolongation b£;;the,..congest. ~3iie..elec?' tiotf would be practically over "at the first ballot, as., .the mystcr} - of how . tlio . Voters would . respond to'the.,various political practically' b,e 'solved. He 're-' minded nib rubers of. their summary- rejection of aV Bill to. alter the constitution. of the Council, and. suggosted that they should allow to the other House-tho privilege which they had on that occasion claimed for themBclve,?.; V • . ..' . -. "A Bldssed Rest." The Hon. T. KELLY (Taranaki) said the Council should pass the Bill, as the House wished-it. A blessed rest of a fortnight or a;week:would bo.welcomed.: The newspapers had frightened themselves' at shadows,, and he : was Astonished at them.'. The. Hon. 0. SAMUEL (Taranaki) contended that there-was no need for a change in'the. mode of'election. The present House was characterised -by: an absolute absence of, corruption. He emphatically eulogised the ability and devotion to duty of the members'. ' ..Tho Attorney-General .(Hon. Dr. 'Findlay):. If they are so clever, why do they want the second ballot p. Mr. Carncross: I don't think they' do. The Press • Defended. " I T. Co -fe luing ) ? Ir " Sanlu el argued against the 000 majority . clause. He- .considered bection.lu (the."gag" clause) was' wrong in principle,, and woiild deprive -the colony of some of its best influences, on which it had s®, ffy; •"» deciding .-'any important issue. While he disapproved of the Bill, ho con-, Biuered that its endorsement bv the Houso after full discussion therein and" in tho country should influence him to adopt a-middle courso.towards.it. He denied that the press was, influenced by sordid considerations in opposing Clftuse 19." By tho sacrifices which tho- newspapers had made in the 1 public interest in the matter of suppression of gambling and refusing advertisements of quack medicmes, they had set a high example to the rest of tho-community.' If Scction 19 y®re passed, there, could be no justification ' or ®][°w|ng a candidate to spend as much as £50 'in the second: ballot campaign. Ho thought they would be justified in taking the extrehie'st .measures.-to' 'secure' Scction 19 receiving further consideration. Ho objected :fco' the restriction on candidates as much as to-that on the press. It would add a .new -'terror.'t o -a contested election if : a candidate were unablo.to clear his character trom-slander and misrepresentation. To silence the press just at the tinio when its services wero most needed for free and libera] discussion was most undesirable. Compromise Not Wanted. - The. 'Hon. % C. F.- CARNCROSS (Taranaki),, said that tho. objection ,of newspaper jneh : to Section .19 was ; on. ..the . ground of public interest.-. Ho was sure tilts press would raise no objection to a. sub-clause providing that ; they should take no election advertisements between, the, ballots.Mr. Rigg: 'Why not prohibit the publication of the papers altogether ?. Hon. Dr. Findlay: Just so.. ;' V . r l "'-. Carncross went on to insist on tho injustice of allowing candidates no means of refuting election canards. He feared that a conversation at a cattlo market, if a little crowd gathered around a candidate, would lay him^ open to. prosecution.''.Ho could not accept tho concession now offered on-Scction 1J by tho amendments that; had been circulated. . For the Backblocks. ■Tho Hon. W W. M'CARDLE (Taranaki) said it would bo very unjust to candidates in largo backblocks districts if Section 19 were/struck out.' ■■ Tho Hoil: J. B.CALLAN'(Otago) said the Council should act from higher motives than mere courtesy to the other.House. The interests of. the electors must be considered first. He could see no reason for introducing Section 19, which was a blow at tho liberty of tho. press. There was - no real analogy between company meetings and an election campaign. The only reason urged jn favour of -the clause was that without it the rich man would have an unfair advantage,'butj'if that were so, it would bp equally true of the whole campaign. (Hear, hear) The Hon.:'A. BALDEY (Otago) approved of the principle of tho Bill, hut opposed the SOO .majority proviso. He did not object to Scction 19, which did not. in any way inter-

fero with tho liberty of the press. Thore would be ample, timo for . comment before iiio first poll. ' Tho Hon. J. T. PAUL (Otago) reiterated his opposition to the Bill, and'especially to Section 19 and tho 500 majority proviso. Tho Hon, 6. JONES (Otago) insisted that iPe rich would have more influenco on tho second ballot if tho press wore silenced and public meetings forbidden. Ho would do his best to exclude the clauso from tho Bill. , HON. DR. FINDLAY'S REPLY. . The ATTORNEY-GENERAL (Hon. Dr. Findlay) said that, in deforonco to criticism, ho would consent to the Striking out of the dOO majority-proviso. Ho also thought the £50 clause should be altered to make it consistent, with Section 19. ' In defenco' of the last-named section, -Dr. Findlay submitted that. Mr. Samuel's "praise of the Lower House, Which well deserved it, was a strong reason for agreeing to 'what it had decided on. The Lower House had a'more intimate knowledge of elections than the Council had. AVhat could thoy say of a popular assembly with such knowledge/passing a clauso l forcing them to sit with folded hands, as Mr. Samuel had said, while thoir characters wore \>eing blackened? Mr. .Tones: I can't understand it. Mr; Samuel: They had no time to consider it. . Dr. Findlay replied that no leader of a great party ever brought in such a clauso without first ascertaining that it had tho approval of the majority of his party. A large majority of tho House wanted the clause. Mr. Carncross: No. They often ask us to kick out Bills:thoy have passed. , Mir. Jones: It was senility. (Oh, oh 1) Dr. 'Findlay: That remark is out of keeping. 'with the lion, gentleman's charitable disposition. ' Mr.. Jones: I withdraw it. What Might Happen! Dr. 'Findlay, proceeding, again appealed to the Council to recognise that tho House would' not pass such a clauso without very good reason. Every man who voted for tho 'cliiuse in 'tho Hoiiso might' have to act upori his belief. Let them consider' what would occur in one' of the -Ihrge -electorates, say -Wakatipu. or West land, where tho second ballot would take place fourteen days dft-er the first. In tho interval between the two ballots, if there were no restriction, each Candidate would , at ,once -begin an. active canvass.. The man . who had rich.'"friends who would lend him their motor cars would kavo a huge advantage, and the man who had not such an advantage would bo handicapped. 'l'he more rich friends a. 'candidate had, tho ■better his chances would be. Also, the shorter the period, Hhe more acute 1 tho contest would be, and the more'effective, the aid of wealth. When one candidate was a rich man • and the other a poor -mail would that bo fair? ... Mr. Jones: That would be, so at any election. , . ' Dr. Findlay: I admit the conditions of the first ba.llot aro not perfect. Wealth -'Spalls Help. The reason ho had given was what induced the Government to propose the first part of tho clause. It'was idle to deny that wealth spelt holp, however much, they might legislate against corrupt practices. The Government-had tried to neutralise the effect of wealth. The first thirig-'they' did. was to prohibit candidates rushing, about , and addressing'meetings. But if they allowed a wealthy man to go to a newspaper and say, "Put in this manifesto. .'lt may cost £50. I don't-care, if it costs £100,." and if that newspaper circulated over a wide electorate, would not that be as effective as a. speech? Mr. Carncross's suggestion that advertisements. should bo prohibited would; be. useless. Who. was to say' that a local, a leader, or an address was an'- advertisement? He undertook to say that .thore. were .'three' or •four.'lawyers in that building Who would -bo prepared to prove the contrary.- If the rich man had the columns of the newspapers open to him, would not that be a'violation'of' one of the first principles of our democracy, namely that- every: 'man should?'have a 'fair' chance of securing''the suffrages of-'the electors? ...'•, ... -~ ...... .

..i (I'll All- I'-H - , Newspaper Methods Discussed. Mombers who had been through elections, knew that tho -papers gave them a column and ?. half for their first speech and dribs and drabs afterwards, but if they paid-they could get-in an cxtenso report every'time. (Hear,, hear.) 1 ' '' , Mr. Loughnan : Entirely wrong. ;-Mr. .Jones: -It's quite correct of some papers..- ... - , . .. . ~... Mr. Luke: I had to pay. » Dr. Findlay: And I liad to.pay; and'l may tell you it didnt do any good. -(Laughter.)- ; Ihat was an example admitted by his critics and the advocates of the press in that Coun-' cil. A. rich man could get his speech published m extenso with t>il introduction about' thp large audience and the number of ladies prosenj; and all tho rest of it. That was all because the man had cash. Wore the press prepared to say that they would: refuse £100 for publishing such' reports? Perhaps Mr. Jones could answer'that question.' Mr. Jones: I can't. Campaigning In a Hurry. Dr. Findlay, proceeding, said that- if- a candidate had plenty of he could af-' for 4 c f.° 1 be more or less independent, but not so if the time was .short. In his own case he had only ten days, and he knew that ho wanted- all tho newspaper space and .all the publicity as to his movements that he could get. Mr. Jones:., Nothing, should be ■ paid for but. advertisements. • Dr. Findlay, - proceeding, admitted that the press had shown a very, high sense-of honour in regard' to quack medicine advertisements, and the gambling evil, but in no case did the papers print in extenso reports of election 'speeches unless they Wero paid to do so. Section 19 was intended only to prevent personal criticism and personal advocacy, and to give all fair play. He would bo prepared to delete the word "article," if that' was necessary for, tho purpose of making it clcar that general discussion Tvas not aimed at. If it could be shown how the first ballot could bo similarly safeguarded he would agreo to do so. Any genoral discussion of political questions, and anything that did not take tho shape of an attempt to promote or oppose a particular candidature would be permitted. It had. been represented to him that something that ought to be known about a candidate might come to. the knowledge of a newspaper. That was provided for.by one of the proposed.amendments. Dr. Findlay concluded by urging the' Council to pass the clause in the interests of true democracy. „■ ■!. \ IN COMMITTEE. The Council then went into-committee on the - Bill. ■ • ■ The Hon. S. T. GEORGE moved the deletion of tho proviso tb Section 2, that a majority of -'500 oyer the second candidate should 'be deemed an absolute majority. The: Attorney-General accepted the amendment, intimating'that he did hot think it necessary to cionsiilt his colleagues oil the matter, as it was not vital to the Bill. Some discussion ensued, which was interrupted at 5 p.in. by the adjournment of the Council until'B p.m. After further discussion at .'the evening sitting, the clause, was "struck s out on tlio voices. . ' <. Clauso 18, which limits the expenditure of a- candidate between the two' ballots, was postponed until- after tho consideration of Clauso 19, (tho "gag" clause); ■ Continued Protests. ' • The Hon. J. lUGG. moved. to. strike out 'the first line of Clause 19, Ho said ho regarded it mainly .as. on infringement of the right .of. public meeting. The Hon. J. B. CALLAN said the clauso would not prohibit canvassing, and would, therefore, only increase the advantago of the man with tho motor car. The ATTORNEY-GENERAL admitted that canvassing would not ho prevented, but ho contended that, in a largo electorate especially, much less could bo done by visiting tho homes of tho electors than by holding meetings, with the. local papers poid out of tho rich man's purse to print every precious word he said. * Tho Hon. W. C. F; CARNCROSS in again opposing the clauso described it as ono of tho most contemptible things ever proposed in Parliament.

The Hon. R. L. LOUGHNAN, alluding to candidates obtaining full reports in the jjress, said that a'caso could often be argued as well in a small compass as at length. .The Hons. G. Jones, Jeukinson, Macdonald, Luke, and Paul spoke-against tho clause. Mr. Rigg's amendment was defeated by 17 to 11. DIVISIONS. Following is the division list:— Against tho amendment (17)—'Trask, Kelly, Louisson, Reeves, Pero, Harris, M'Cardlo, George, Anstey, Baldey, Tucker, Gilmer, Baillie, Holmes, Beehan, Sinclair, and'Findlay. For the amendment (11) —Loughuan, Paul, Rigg, Jones, Jenkinson, Carncross, Collins, Cnllan, Luke, Macdonald, and Samuel. Tho ATTORNEY-GENERAL , moved to amend "clause 19, sub-elauso 1; to read as follows: —"During tho interval between the first and second ballots it shall not be lawful' for' any candidate at tho second ballot, or for any other person, to call together or address or take part in any public meeting, or any meeting of , electors (whether the admission to tint meeting is general or restricted) with intent to promote, procure, advocate, ■'oppose, or prevent tho election ;of any candidate at the sccond ballot, or to influence or procure the voto of any elector at the'sfrcond ballot." A lengthy l discussion followed. The sub-clause as amended was adopted at 12.15 a.m. by 17 to 6. The division was as follows: — For the sub-clause (17) —Loughnan, Trask, Kelly, Louisson, Reeves, Harris, M'Cardle, l'ere, Anstey, Baldey, , Tucker, Gilmer, George, Sinclair, Holmes, Beehan, and Findlay- • . .. . Against (6)—-Paul, Rigg, Jenkinson, Carncross, Macdonald, and Samuel. : The following new sub-clauso, in clause 19, was moved by tho Attorney-General, and was agreed to on tho voices:—_' c (2a.) Nothing in the last preceding subsection shall make it an offence to publish in any newspaper registered under the Printers' and Newspapers' Registration Act, 1908, any statement of fact if that statement is truo in substance and if the'publication thereof is for tho public benefit."

A-new sub-clause to make clause 19 apply only to tho ten largo electorates, where the second ballot is to be taken fourteen days after the first, was moved by Mr. Rigg, and defeated on the voices.

The wholo clause, as amended, was adopted by.. 16 to 7. -■ '■ ; . .•. -

The following, is..the division list:— Aj ; es (16)—Trask, Kelly, Louisson, Reeyos, Harris, ; Gilmer,. M'Cardle, 'Pere, Anstey,' Baldey, Tucker, George,. Holmes, Beehan, Findlay. Noes (.6)—Lbughnan, Paul, Rigg, Camcross,. Jenkinson, Macdonald, Samuel. Tho following addition was mado to clause 18, sub-clause 4, which limits the expenses of candidates:—"Every 'candidate or other person who is knowingly "a party .to any breach of : the provisions. of this subsection is.,guilty -of a corrupt .practice.',' ■ ; .Tlio following now clauso was added :— "Nothing in this Act shall -affect tho provisions of the Licensing Act, 1908, as to the licensing poll to bo taken .under that Act, and every such poll shall be taken on the same day and in tho same manner as if this Adt'has,riot been passed." ■'.' -The Bill was reported, and tho Council rose at 1.20 a.m. . - .

THE HOUSE.

MANAWATU RAILWAY. PURCHASE BILL IN COMMITTEE. The Speaker; took ; the. chair at 2.30 p.m. The Houso went into Committee on tho Wellington and Manawatu-Railway Purchase Bill; .. Tho PRIME MINISTER, replying-to Mr.. •James Allen, said the Government acquired from the company all tho railway track and: adjoining lands outside the, city .of Wellington, and all the railway land to which it was 'entitled in -i Wellington. . Outside the-.-latter was an area of 13 acres 2 roods.2l poles''near the railway yard' in/,Wellington,' which tho company had cut iipl It was valued at £9000.. . , The Prime Minister, replying to Mr. Herrie's as to-how'the'Government proposed to run the railway, whether It was to bo worked as a separate section,"or was to bo attached to'one of the'existing sections, said ho could not at, this early stago commit tho Railway Department, but' full particulars would: be supplied later. , . Clauses. Struck Out. • The-Prime Minister moved to' strike out .Clauses. 21 and defining the Crown's liability;"to'.pay corapensa't-io'u 'for' land' transferred froni'tlio company/to the Crown.' He did so, lie said; under agreement 'with the company. It was only right that should any liability exist it should be recoghisablo by the'company and not by the Crowii. ' " ' ' The clauses - were struck out. . The'Prlnio Minister, replyiiig to Mr. J.Allen, indicated that provision- would., bo mado for increased -traffic on tho lino on ,the completion of the North Island Main Trunk. The Employees! . . ' ' At Clause 29, ' Mr. W. H. FIELD and one or two other members asked that the position of the employees of the company,, when transferred to tho State, bo more clearly stated. ' The PRIME MINISTER' said the j Government would bo prepared to- do 'what was' right and fair by tho men. As far as superannuation was. concerned, their term would-start-from their date of entry into the company's service, but their status in the Government' employ would be as from December ■■ The Bill was reported from l Committee. PUBIC BODIES' LEASES BILL. Tho Public: Bodies'. Leases .Bill (the Hon. R. M'Nab) was committed. Tho Bill makes general: provision as to the leasing power of local bodies 'and other public authorities, so as to avoid the necessity of making-special, provisions in every-Act which establishes an authority. " The Hon. .T.- Y. DUNCAN pointed out that Clause 8, sub-clause 4 (dealing with leases to bp .sold by public auction or public tender) w-as wide in its provisions as- to acceptance or non-accept.anco Of bids or teliders. There should bo somo direction that if the highest tender was . .not accepted, cause for such non-acceptanco. should be. given... , . The MINISTER, after discussion; moved to have the aub-clauso .struck out on the understanding it would bo re-drafted and introduced in an amended form in the' Upper House. The Bill was then reported from committee.' THIRD. READINCS. On tho .House resuming after the dinner adjournment the Premier moved the' third reading of the Wellington and Manawatu Railway Purchase Bill. After brief discussion between Mr. -J. Allen and the Prime Minister the third reading was carried; The Public Bodies' Leases Bill was' also road a third timo. ■ > INSPECTION OF MACHINERY, The House proceeded to the consideration of tho Inspection of Machinery Amendment Bill (the Hon. J. A. Millar). Tho Bill was read a third timo. DECLARATORY JUDGMENTS. Tho. amendments made in committoo to tho Declaratory Judgments Bill wero agreed to and. the Bill was, read a third timo. ARBITRATION AND CONCILIATION. , Tho. committal of tho Industrial Conciliation and Arbitration Act Amendment Bill was callcd on. Tho PRIME MINISTER moved that tho Rill bo postponed to enable members to givo its provisions further consideration. Mr. MASSEY did not want to opposo the adjournment of the debate, hut ho took exception to tho Government not knowing beforehand what it proposed doing. He had beon to considerable trouble to acquaint himself with the provisions at the expense of succeeding measures. The PRIME MINISTER replied that last Friday lie had said the Bill would not bo, debated before Wednesday or Thursday, in order that plenty of time might be given members for its consideration. Tho postponement was carricd.. .

IMPOUNDING BILL. The Impounding Amendment Bill was reported from committee aiul read a third time. LOANS TO LOCAL BODIES. The' PRIME MINISTER moved tlio second reading of the Local Bodies' Loans Amendment Bill. Ho referred to the; Bill as a very important one. Ho showed tho difficulty of tlio Government continuing to advanoo nionoy in greater proportion than at present to tlio local bodies, and yet, if tlio country was to be developed, something must bo done. Hence tlio Bill proposed a Government guarantee to a total amount in' one year of £500,000. That sum seemed large, but the requests for moneys that had como under his notice had been very much in excess per year of the quarter of a million now allowed by statute. The Government had cither to do as now proposed or extend their liftiits. Come Amendments. Tlio Prime Minister then read certain amendments ho. proposed to move, which had been suggested by a conference of local bodies. They were: to enable the Bill to apply to loans in respect to which a poll had been taken before the passing of- tlio measure; and to confer power to raise a supplementary loan of not more than 1-lOth tlio amount of the original loon, a special rate being leviable to pay the interest. "Unless these provisions were incorporated some local bodies would not have an. opportunity of availing themselves of what was intended to . bo a rolief to them under the Bill, Tho Supplementary Loan. Regarding tho raising of 'a supplementary loan tho Primo Minister pointed: out that this was a common-senso amendment, for yery often a.local body found itself with insufficient money to complete a work, and under the present law, beforo tho additional money could be obtained, tho expense of a fresh poll, with extensive advertising, etc., had to be incurred, even though tho ratepayers were all of ono mind. Ar.cthor Amendment. He also intended to introduce a' further clause which would proscribe a limit in which moneys raised by poll could be retained without being spent. He referred to the caso of a local body not far from Wellington—ho was expressing 110 opinion on the specific caso —but it was to prevent such a position recurring elsewhere that lie proposed the insertion of tho new clause. One reason for a time limit was that tho' loc.il body government might change, and the intentions of the poll be altered. Two- years whs the time limit proposed—(hew, hear) —after which the poll would be declared void. Mr. Herries Approves. Mr. HERRIES (Bay of Islands) greeted tho. Bill .with approval. He was glad to. hear from the Premier that the Bill did not propose to interfere with tho previous arrangements regarding borrowing under Part II of tho Act of 1881. Ho' hoped preferonce under the Bill would bo given to needy back-blocks (which badly required assistance) ovor wealthy boroughs and city corporations. He suggested that if in addition to the State guarantee some system of inscription wero given, by" which stock could be inscribed and quotations obtained'on tho Stock Exchange, it would bring into the investment market many desirable small investors. At present there would bo no release to money invested in local body, stock, and if the release ho had 1 suggested wero given ho was sure the result' would be satisfactory. He suggested that after the loans wero raised they should bo-inscribed and called "local bodies guaranteed loans." He hoped to see the Bill' passed. Mr. C. M. GRAY (Christchurch) supported the Bill. Hardly Far Enough. Mr. FISHER (Wellington) congratulated the Government on the Bill,, though ho thought it hardly went far enough.. Ho would like it compulsory that a.ll sinking funds —including existing funds—should bo invested by tho Public Trustee. It would be an insurance against- investment on boom valuations, as had occurred in Australia. Ho said tho Wellington City Council, had in-ves'tcd-at valuations that would give them 5 por cent., but they had sometimes a loss on uninvested sinking funds, and on working tho wliolo tiling out for the year it amounted to. 4 per cent, in every year in the city's history. Last year £4 14s. per' |, cent, was reached, the best on record. In | proposing that sinking funds 'in oxistenco bo, included, ho did not mean that present loans should bo cancelled. They could bo vested in tho Public Trustee, as thoy fell due. In this way 1,079,000 would be available, which; at present was floating higgledypiggledy about tho Dominion.

Mr. W. PHASER (AVakatipu) recognised the value of the Bill, but pointed out that ■local bodies would liavo to go into the open market, whicli would moan difficulty in obtaining loans in times of stringency. He hoped it would not be U6ed to render tho Loans to Local Bodies Act »' dead letter.

Mr. HQGG (Masterton) welcomed the provision to empower local bodies to go into the open market for their loans.

Tho debate, was carried- on by several speakers.

Tho PRIME MINISTER in replying couia not agree with Mr. Herries regarding converting tho local body loans into inscribed stock. It' would bo inadvisable.

Tho second reading was carried, and the House rose a few minutes after midnight.

NEWS AND NOTES,

WORK IN MINES. Tho Goldfields Committee of tho House of Representatives has considered Mr. Guinness's Hours of Underground Workers Bill, and recommends that it be not proceeded with. The Bill provides for an eight-hours' day, with . half-an-hour out "of such eight hours for meal time. Tho committee has made several amendments in Mr. M'Gowan's Bill'to amend the Goal Mines Act., Olio of these is with a view to giving 'every miner at least 30 minutes out of overy working day of eight hours for crib-time. Another provision is that no person shall bo appointed to tho position of underviewer or. foreman and deputy unless ho has ha.d five years' experience in underground workings in a coal mine, and has passed an- examination by one or more members of the Board of Examiners and an-inspector of mines. Mot who have held such positions for twelve months prior ■to tho commencement of the Act are, iiowcver, to be granted certificates of service oil application. Members of-Parliament apparently (ire well satisfied with tho arrangements for the purcliaso of the Manawatu Railway, sinco when the Bill was in tho Committee stages yesterday only between. twenty and twenty-nvo members were, as a rule, present. Mr. Fisher asked tho Prime Minister yesterday whether it was: true that the Government had accepted a contract for hats for postmen weighing 21b., aud whether .this burden was to be added to tho many these men had borne for tho last few years. (Laughter.) Tho Prime Minister replied that ho was sure tho postmen, with their record of good service in tho past, would carry .with; dignity whatever burden was imposed oil them. (Laughter.) i llc 4tnew of no such matter, but if the lion, gentleman would give notice lie would obtain information. Owing to tile absence of tho Speaker (lion. C. C. Boweu) the Hon. R. H. J. Reeves presided over the Legislative Council yesterday, and tho Hon. T. Thompson acted as Chairman of Committees. Tho Hon. Mr. Boweu is expected back from Christchureh to-day. Tho heads of members of the House of Representatives last evening peeped out of a mass of daffodils, and the scent of this flower filled the chamber. Each bcnch contained vases of daffodils. For tho unusual decorations Mr. Barber (Newtown) wiie responsible. "I linvo never seen tho House so beautiful before," remarked tlie Prime Minister, with a smile. They, wore indebted to tho Speaker for granting Mr. Barber loavo to. pluoQ tho flowors on tho desks. (Hoar, hear.) ■ . i