THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 288, 29 August 1908, Page 7

THE HOUSE.

V ESTIMATES DISCUSSED. ,{Tlie Houso-mot at 2.30 p.m. yesterday, and proceeded to deal with the Estimates. 'marine and harbours, etc. The total vote of this class was £82,630 (last Wear expended £76,629). Thi Hon. J. A. MILLAR-, replying to Mr. J. Allen, said that as a result of . the Government's protectorate over the Auckland oyster-beds, -the picking .of- the oysters had never Been more satisfactory; the prices had nevor b\eii- so cheap, tlie supply so constant and satisfactory;'and tho beds in so'good a condition! -The sales had been cheaper -than ever before, and .the Department expected to make £500 to £700 011 the year's work. Llgftfftous®. Mr. HEBRIES drew the attention of the Minister tovtho laciraf lighting on tho East Coast fromUhe Threo Kings to Capo Palliser. \ ' The MINISTER said a first-class lighthouse was being placed on Capo Brett'. This would take a Vessel rieht up that portion of the' East Coasl. on tho North Capo, would, only bo, of use to vessols -going to' Auckland, Thl Department's policy was to build ono now Uighthouso every two years. A first-class ligh\house cost £7000 to £10,000, and this year, . in. addition to providing a light oh Capo .Brett, thoy woro equipping the Tuahine lighthouse so that it could be seen, fivo miles beron'd tho Ariel Reef. Tho Amokura. V Mr. J. C. THOMSON referred to a rumour that there wero attained relations between the officers 011 tho Amokura training ship. Tho Hon. J. A. iIILLAR did not make any definite, denial ofltho rumour, but stated that anyone who was, causing strained relations would find his Relations with the ship 'very short indeed. _ H« added that the work of tho training'ship sb-far as it had gono had been very satisfactory indeed, and that after tho boys had undergone two years' training, tho Union Conipany was quite pre■parod to employ them, Snd they could then earn from £3 10s. to per month. He was not, however, goinj; to; havo, parents sending their, boys thej-e,'and then in twelve months after thoy had .bfcn disciplined taking them away .again. If,'they did that thoy would have to pay tho. expenses of tho boys. Ho proposed to bring in 'amending legislation in order that tlio Government might havo sufficient, control in \he matter. At present tho boys got at firi one penny per day, then : 2d. JU a .drtys' o if''thcir conduct had been good, and afterwards day. The oost to trainiilg tho boys was £80 por lioad per' all hum.' The officers wero under great disabilities in training tho boys, becnuse tho present vess,ol ias much too small. Tho Government, howaver, had been endeavouring to got another man-of-war from tho Imperial .Government. 1 .Thi' idea, was .to mako her a depot ship, to accommodate, from 150 to 200 boys, and to tako iheie in batches, and give tliem the necessary sea '.training on the Amokura. In such a dep&ti ship there would bo room for a schoolmaster. Tho ■present vessel could only' tako 60. boys. .; Tho total class was passed. \ \ LABOUR DEPARTMENT. The total vote 6f tho Labour Department's estimates was £27,162 (last year;expended £29,0-18). ■ . ■ . . The MINISTER FOR LABOUR, replying to Mr. J. Allen, said that the expenses of tho Conciliation Board had been £1696, being allotted to the various districts as follows:-— Northern industrial district, £186; Wellington district, £931; Nelson district, £66 lis. ; Canterbury, £444; Otago and Southland district, £60. If a return wero risked'for in the proper way he would bo very glad to submit fuller particulars. The 1 ! farm labourers' dispute had cost £868 17s. id., exclusive of. £450 for reporting, which he was disputing. 1 Finos Paid. |

Proceeding, Mr. Millar said £147 had been received from tho Blackball miners, which constituted the full amount of the fines witli costs. There seemed to bo a prevailing idea that the Department had not collected! fines imposed by the Arbitration Court. Tho contrary was the caso. Tho total amount of penalties inflicted in tho shughtercrs'j dispute was £1350. Tho . sum outstanding in this amount was £692, and of this £350 was owing, by men .who had gone to Australia; £224 was being paid in weekly instalments, whilo distress warrants were issued against others. Of the whole amount of tho ifines tho Department had collected 66 per cent., and'thoy would collect still more, because as the men who had gon-3 to Australia returned they were traced and made to meet their obligations. The number of men otherwise .fined totalled 260, from whom £244 had been collccted. Tho percentage of fines inflicted ;.on, workers which had been collected in ! the five years 1S!03-1908 was 72 per cent., 'and judgment summonses were out'against others. Tho percentage of , fines collected from j employers in that period was 90 per cent.,iaud judgment summonses, wero out for the .rest. It would thus be seen that the fines were .collected. . • i.. j." Too Niggardly. ' s Mr. BARCLAY (Dunedin) complained that one female inspector of factories was-insuffi-cient for the wholo Dominion. Ho ilso contended that tho salaries of tho inspectors of factories wore not high enough. Tho management of the Department was ; too niggardly. !' Tho MINISTER agreed that tho salaries were insufficient. He had asked for increases last year, and ho would repeat the request this year. (Hear, hear.) They had had no inspector of shearing sheds last year, but had engaged extra nidi to help thoir own officers. Some 560 sheds had been inspeoted, but this expense would not bo a recurring one. 1

Mr. WILFORD said tho Conciliation Board had failed for one reason, and one reason only, i.e., that tho "Conciliation" Board commenced the dispute instead of settling it. As to the Arbitration Court, the reason of dissatisfaction lay in the constitution of tho court. The Hon. J. A. MILLAR roso to ask if the member was in order in discussing tho Arbitration Court on tho Estimates. Mr. Wilford said his remarks wero based on three items in the Estimates connected with tho Arbitration Court. The CHAIRMAN OF COMMITTEES said that Mr. Wilford could not speak on tho proof tho Conciliation - and Arbitration "Act .Amendment Bill. He must confino himself to tho items. Mr. Wilford moved to report progress to take the Speaker's ruling. A Ruling. The SPEAKER, having taken his chair, said that directly a mombor commenced to discuss tho policy of a Bill bcftire Select Committee or tho amondmonts in it in regard to tho constitution of tho Court, tho Conciliation Iloard, or tho appointment of officers, ho would he out of order. He, therefore, ruled tho lion, member out of ordor.

Tho MINISTER, in replying to Mr. Lewis, said that it was not, and had never been, intended to abandon tho worters' homes policy. Tho complaint had been that land was too expensive in this city to provide cheap dwellings for workers. They would build in tho Dominion as houses were required. So far 105 houses had been completed, 15 wero in course of construction, of which 3 wero at I'etono, and 12 at Ellerslie. Of the total number oiily 2 wero unoccupied. Mr. BOLLARD (Eden) said it was a farce for tho Government to provido houses for mon earning £4 a week. Ho referred to a scheme ho himself had put forward to build cheaper houses, for tho right class of men — men with largo families and small salaries. Mr. Bollard would bo with tho Minister every time if ho would-do this. Mr. BARBER (Newtown) said that if tho Govornmont could not erect houses cheaper than tho speculator the scheme must,be a failure. Tho expectations of the scheme had been that it would give housed at reduced rents. Thoro was 110 need for tho houses if this result was not obtained. The fact that high ronts prevailed was an excellent ehanco Tor tho success of tho scheme. Some of tho buildings in Coromandel Street wero too elaborate altogether. Something required to ho done for watersido workers. Mr. ARNOLD (Dunedin) said that if tho purchase of the land, especially in -Dunedin, had been left in the hands of the Labour Department in the first place, cheaper prices would havo been paid. Mr. FISHER (Wellington) suggested schemes adopted in Britain. It was impossible to have cheap ronts in Wellington on sections 40 x 160 ft.' Ho suggested a model lodging-house to accommodate from 75 to 160 people, at a cost of from eight to ten shillings a week. Liko Mr. Barber, Mr. Fisher advocated cheap lodgings for waterside. workers. Ho would bo pleased to see the City Corporation give, the . old • tramway ; shed site as a building site, qr a portion of the town bolt, say, at the foot of tho Brooklyn hills..

Mr. ELL (Christchurch) said tho cost of tho dearest house in Christchurch was lis. lid. a week, and the cheapest 10s., and yot members wore sdying tho rents were too dear! Tho Trades Council did not'give tho Govornmont any credit for what it had done and the Wellington Council was a leader in this discontent. He said ho lmd intcrviowed ocoupiers of the Hcretaunga (Petone) homes, and tho'y were quite satisfiod. • Thoy felt secure in not suddonly having to face a rise in rent. .'Yet labour leaders in this town jeered at the, Government for its workers' homes policy. Ho_ complained bitterly of tho discouraging attitude of tho workers themsolves over this matter. Nai Nai Land. Mr. MASSEY asked how could a working man be expected to pay 12s. lOd. a week for rent? To bo useful those.houses should not cost a labourer more- than 7s. or Bs. a wook. Many of the houses at tho' present time wore of little use to bona-fide labourers. His opinion was that tho solution of tho difficulty was to give tho men chances of gotting out into tlio country ohoaply. Ho had visited the Nai Nai block, which he said was swamp, and absolutely valueless for workmen's homes. It was, he had been told, purchased at.great cost. Mr. Aitkon: At threo times its value.

Mr. Massoy: Yes, and ho lmd hoard that almost as much as tho. purchase money had been spent in draining arid endeavouring to improve the land. In many cases, ho concluded, money had been wasted in tho erection of workers' homes without doing any good. ■ '' - ' Tho vote waS agreed to on tho 'resumption of '.the sitting, at. '7.30 p.rii. '. PUBLIC HEALTH DEPARTMENT. Tho total of Class XXV, Department of Public-Health (Hon. G. Fowlds) was £38,910. The MINISTER, replying to Mr.- Jamos Allen (who had referred to complaints of tho- quality of tho vaccino lymph sout out by the Department), said that tho lymph had for years boon of tho highest quality. The French Government had asked for supplies of it. There were inevitably inferior batches occasionally, but these woro recalled as soon as discovered. ! Regarding tho item of'£soo for tho Karoro trec-p lanting camp for recovered consumptives, Mr. Fowlds expressed great hopes of the results of this project. One advantago would be that patients could bo sent thoro from -tlio Cambridge Sanatorium, before they woro ready to go back to,ordinary life, and,thus a largor liumhor c'oijld be,'treated. . Tho commence-ment-of the camp had- been most encouraging, Tho patients, _ receiving wages at ordinary rates, had paid for their maintenance, Evory caso certified as suitable for treatment at To Waikato Sanatorium was put on tho list, and had to tako its turn. Ho defended the Government from the criticisms of Christchurch mombors in regard to the alleged, want of generosity towards tho Ghristcliurch Consumptive Sanatorium. It was not 'intended to make additions to To Waikato Sanatorium, as the hospital boards wero providing institutions for the treatment of consumptives. . ,

Anottiar Sanatorium Wanted. Tho Hon. T. Y. DUNCAN said ho . still thought the Government had been niggardly towards, .the Canterbury pcoplo in tho matter of the Sanatorium. Tho Cambridge Sanatorium was provided at the solo cost of the Government, and an institution should similarly be provided in Central Otago. Mr. GRAY said there' should bo a sanatorium in "the South' Island like that in the Waikato. They had hoped; that tho Cantorbury Sanatorium would receive such aid from tho Government as to take that position'. At present the- Sanatorium Stood on tho Cashmere Hills with locked doors—a monument to ' Governmental indifference. Tho _ Government had refused "to pay tho subsidy, and tho Hospital Board, discouraged by tho action of tho Government, did not seem inclined to take tho institution over. Ho had tho key, and did not know whother ho must lot tho-building to tho highest bidder, or what he must do with it.

Mr. J. ALLEN advocated tho establishment of a consumptive sanatorium in Central Otago. Ho oulogised tho work of tho societies for the promotion of the health of .women and children. If tho £400 on tho Estimates was not sufficiont, .ho hoped a furthpr sum would be placed on -tho Supplementary Estimates. ..Dr. OHAPPLE justified on medical grounds tho expenditure on consumptive sanatoria, alid ' urged . that the climatic conditions of Cpntral Otago being tho best in New Zealand for tho euro of tuberculosis, tho Govern-, mont should establish a sanatorium thoro.' 'Dr. Chapplo further advocated medical inspection of school children and instruction of teachers b'y peripatetic mcdical officers of tho Health Department. This would go far towards checking tho decay of teeth among the children.

A Valuable Institution." Mr. A. R. BARCLAY eulogised tho work of the Karitatio Homo, Duuedin, for tho caro. of ailing infants. Tho 'institution also trained nursc3. Thcro was 110 other place liko it in tho country, and all tho Lady Plunket nurses had to go through it. It was not a Government institution. Further expenses must bo incurred, amounting probably to £800 or £900, to enable-tho work to bo ■carried ph. At present the Government contributed £100 a year towards a total expenditure of £1200. It was a voluntary institution, and it was not desired that tho Hospital Board should'take it over. Its work was' ■not confined to tho poor, but tho nurses went wherever required to caro for infants and their mothers. He also supported tho demand for a Government sanatorium in Central Otago. Tho MINISTER said tho Knritnn'o Homo would bo beforo tho House later on. It would not bo proper to discuss it now.

Mr. Gray said the Department, seemed to have been started for tho purpose of paying a few big salaries, and incidentally 'doing something for the'public health. Fortyfive per cent, of tho. total vote was for :snl?ries.. Ho was not satisfied with the 'administration of the Department, It was unsympathetic, and tho results wero not commensurate ■ with tho expenditure. OtaUl Sanatorium. > ' .Mr. HOGG advocated an extension of the nursing -system for tho benefit of country, districts. Ho praised tho work' of tho' Av'aikato Sanatorium, but considered that tho.Otaki Sanatorium was a hidebound institution. Patients who wero medically certified as likely to benefit by tho treatment

thoro were rofused admittance without any reason being given. Ho was speaking of cases within his own personal knowledge. Ho would' liko to see institutions liko that at Cambridge established in tho South Island and in the Wellington district. Mr. BAUME supported tho demand for a consumptivo sanatorium in Central Otago. Mr. FIELD defended tho Otaki Sanatorium from the strictures of Mr. Hogg. The institution had cured, and would euro, a great number of sufforers. It was true that tho. management had had occasion to refuso admission to two cases which woro quito beyond cure. Only thoso concerning whom tliero was a reasonable liopo of cure could bo treated at tho sanatorium. If Mr. Hogg would go and see tho institution for himself ho would admit that his remarks were uncalled for. Mr. Field also spoke of tho need fur further efforts on behalf of tlio health of Native children. Medical Aid for Maoris. Mr. NGATA urged that subsidised medical officers for tlio Natives should be placed in the Urcwera, tho far North and other renioto districts, instead of in tho Hutt district. Mr. FIELD said that medical assistanco should bo given whoro tho Natives wero impoverished rather than in tlio blackblocks. Thero wero needy Natives in tho Levin, Otaki, and Rangitikei districts, With the sum of £5700 allocated for tho purpose, it should bo possible to placo subsidised doctors in all districts. Tho MINISTER detailed tho sohemo of subsidies to doctors and nurses for indigent Maoris, and said, ho considered tho work being done was very effective.

Tho voto for the Health Department was passed unaltered. •

MENTAL HOSPITALS. The total voto for Class XXVI,' Mental Hospitals and Hospitals and Charitable Aid Departments (Hon. G. Fowlds) was £104,534. The voto for mental hospitals was £90,747. ' . Sir. WILFORD urged tho need of immediately providing further accommodation; Mr. ELL advocated tho removal of the Wellington Mental Hospital to a site outside the city, and suggested that tho present sito could bb utilised for workers' dwellings. 'Mr. GRAY urged tho desirability of establishing "half-way houses," or observation hospitals for mental cases ; Ho told of a Choviot settler who was an" inmate of tho Sunnysido Asylum and was detained there, when thero was nothing the matter with him, tho apparent reason being that 110 was very useful ..with the sheep. Had thero been an observation hospital, this man, who was undoubtedly run down, would havo been placed thero for a time, and would have doubtless soon recovered.' Donartmantal Policy. . The MINISTER said tho Wellington Mental Hospital could not bo abandoned uhtil another sito was arailablo, and his Department, with tho Lands Department, had been pushing 011 'with tho matter over' since 110 took office. Ho wa-s' opposed to groat piles Qf buildings, and favoured separate buildings, near enough together for economical administration. This scheme would facilitate classification. Additions wero being made in tho meantime to several of the mental hospitals to cope' with present needs. . A'Spirited Protsst. Mr. TANNER said the want of accommodation was an abuse of long standing. The story was oho-of unfulfilled promises. Year after year tho Houso had been told by ono Minister .after ■ anothor .that tho Government had proposals in contemplation, or that officials had-recently visited various suggested sites, and yot nothing was done. The thing was ghastly. A good doso of strychnine among somo of thoso poor sufferers would havo been' a merciful boon'under the circumstances.- Ho. was prepared to admit that tho present Minister had moro 011 his hands than lie could fully copo with. A moral earthquake was, needed ampng tho officials, and if 110 camc hack to Parliament next session lie would mako things .Very warm, ■ Tho Hon. W. HALL-JONES said there were vacant beds ill tho hiental hospitals two years ..ago. The'position had been greatly improved during tno last throe or four years, but Mr. Tanner would not give tho Department credit for this.' Additions wero beingmado at Nelson for fifty patients, and work was also in progress at Auckland and clso--.whero. The .mental'hospitals of' Now Zealand compared very favourably with those elsewhere which lie had visited. Tho Hon.'G. FOWLDS said one of tho "halfway houses" alluded to by Mr. Gray was being built at Auckland, where a legacy had been received for tho purpose. Preparations were also being mado at Seacliff, and it was just possible thatj a portion of the 'grounds at Mount View, Wellington, would Be used fof tho sumo purpose. Ho did not propose to rush too quickly into a large expenditure on a somewhat experimental project. The vote for mental hospitals was passed, and also that for ,the home for defectives .(£1204).

CENERAL AND MATERNITY HOSPITALS. On the vote for hosnitals and charitablo aid, £12,583, Messrs. REMINGTON and HOGAN advocated tho establishment of cottage hospitals in country districts as against centralisation. Tho Hon. G. FOWLDS, replying to criticisms on tho system of training midlives at tho St.. Helens Hospitals, said thoro were more applicants than could he taken. ■ They were very keen about tho work, and often got up at all hours to see eases. • These .institutions were training a largo, number of midwives such as tho country had never had before. Ho approved of the establishment of a cottago."'hospital at Taihapo to which tho residents were contributing, but generally he deprecated tho multiplication of small institutions. Tho vote was passed unaltered. DEFENCE. : The Defenco Estimates, £214,470, were taken at' 12.20 a.m.Mr. J. ALLEN cotnplained of tho awkwardness of having a Minister of this Department. (Sir Joseph Ward) and an ActingMinister (Hon. It. Al'Nab). Mr. FISHER expressed a fear that the proposal of tho Defenco Council to keep a list of gentlemen desiring to become volunteer officers would interfere with'tbo chorished right of corps to elect thoir officera. Ho also urged that officers should bo enabled to handle largo bodies' of troops at manoeuvres.

Tho MINISTER, replying to a question put by Mr. J. Alleiij said that not ono single word of the Detenco Council's report had been omitted or altered by tho Govem,ment. One passage dealing with readiness for ivar had been taken out of_ tho InspcctarGenernl's report as confidential. Tho list referred to by Sir. Fisher would bo at tho disposal of companies electing officers. Mr. MASSfix reviewed tho InspectorGeneral's report, which, ho said, was very sorry reading. Its ono bright spot was thbroforence to tho Defcnco Cadets. Wo were not doing our duty in tho matter of defence. ' Tho PRIME MINISTER said ho believed all. boys should bo drilled, but ho know that the people would not stand compulsory service. Thcro had not yet been timo enough to test thoroughly the new organisation undor tho Defence Council. , Mr. T-. MACKENZIE agreed that compulsory training could not be introduced, but declared that tho people must bo so trained as to bo ablo to defend tho country.

Tho Defence Clasa was passed and tho Houso roso at 2.45.

Mr. Field will ask tho Minister for Agriculture when ho intends briuging down his proposed amondmont of tho Noxious Weeds Act, dealing, among other matters, with tho quos■tion of clearing weeds from publio roads. Speaking last night on medical ..inspection of school children, Dr. Chapplo insisted that decay of tho teeth was a,contagious disease. It was spread from tooth to tooth and from mouth to mouth. Tho kissing of children by their parents and by each othor was a frequent moans of communicating tho disease. "What about the kissing of adults?" asked a member, but Dr. Chappie did not go into that branch of the question. '