OREGON TIMBER.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 259, 25 July 1908, Page 6

OREGON TIMBER.

AN APPEAL TO GOVERNMENT. INCREASE OF DUTY REQUIRED. . ' PREMIER NON-COMMITTAL. . A large deputa.tion of tho New Zealand Sawniillers' Association interviewed members of, : Parliament at the House yesterday, and afterwards'waited on the Premier (Sir, Joseph Ward) and Minister for Customs (the Hon. J. A l . Millar), urging that in the interests of the- local trade tho duty on Oregon pine'should bo increased from 2s. to ss. per 100 feet. The Premier's reply was virtually to tho effect that there might be too sides to tho question, and that ho could promise nothing till ho had heard tho cbuntor-argum'onts of a deputation which is to wait on him on Monday next. INTERVIEW WITH MEMBERS. -At the-, interview, with , members; the Speaker (the Hon. A. R. Guinness) presided. ' Mr. H. D.' Bennett' (Taihape) quoted figures to prove that local sawmillers could not compote with Oregon timber at the present rate of.duty. • ■ Mr. W.' Morris (Greymouth) asked , if it was not bettor- to givo employment to thousands of. men to-day, than to lock up the timber reserves for future generations. The price of timber was not tho chief factor in the increased cost of building houses, since timber only constituted about 25 per cent, of the total cost of a house. Mr. J. W. Ellis (South of Auckland district) said that tho price of timber in Now Zealand had increased, only CJ per cent, in five years. In reply to. Mr. W. H. P. Barber, M.P., Mr. Bennett stated that if the duty on imported timber was increased, the sawmillers. would he willing to let the Government fix. local prices. After further discussion, it was decided that a deputation of members and sawmillers should wait upon the Premier and the Minister for Customs. DEPUTATION TO PREMIER. ' REMARKS OF MEMBERS. When tho sawmillers waited on Sir Joseph Ward and Mr. Millar, the Hon. A. R. Guinness explained their object. A large numbers of millers wero present." Mr. Guinness said that Oregon timber could be landed'in-Wellington for 9s. Id. per 100 feet, 'and New: Zealand,, timber could not be landed here for less than lis. If tho Oregon timber got a strong hold in New, Zealand it .would do great damage to the local industry, and causo many men at the sawmills to bo thrown out of work. On tho West Coast' of the South Island alone the amount of timber handled on tho railways every year was 53 million feet. ■ The opening of the Main, Trunk railway would ;tnrow open to exploitation large additional;areas of timber country. Orders had been sent forward lately for ; Oregon pine to the amount of, eight or nine million feet. Mr. T. Y. Seddon, M.P., said that thero were; 52 millg. on the ;West. Coast. The extent pi- ground, set asido for-sawmilling was limited, which was not the case in America, whore labour was also very mwch cheaper. It was no fault of the sawmillers. that tho price of' timber was apparently excessive. Several sawmills on tho West Coast had already had to ceaso operations. Mr. ' C. H. Poole,. M.P.,_ dwelt on the cheapness of labour in Amorica. Mr. W. H. Field; M.P., said that the price of ' timber had only increased by Is. per. 100 feet in tho : last six or seven years. Not one timber company had paid a dividend for rears. SAW-MILLERS' STATEMENTS. ' Mr. H. D. Bennett (Taihape) denied that tho sawmillers had turned themselves into a combine. In the Rangitikei district in- 1 dustries in general would he paralysed if tho timber business were destroyed. Tho cost of production of timber was 10s. 6d. per .100 feet'in Rangitikei, and in Hawke's Bay and Wairarapa,' 10s. 3d. This timber was sold in' Wellington at ,11s., which might seem to give a profit of 6d:, but ho declared that railway and accident, insurance and other incidental expenses, converted this apparent profit to a loss of 6d.' It was truo that some of the 'sawmillers had combined to prevent themselves i. being beaten by unscrupulous dealers in ' regard to bad debts, but there was'no further combination. They supplied 'timber wholesale to merchants at a lower rate than to the public, but discounts of that kind, were the -rule,in every business. The lines which paid best on the New Zealand railways were those which carried the most timber. As soon as the Auckland section tapped the heavy forests in the North, up went the rate of profit on that line. In tho proper'senso timber/represented a manufactured article, and a.local manufacture at that. Every million feet of Oregon imported about £42,000. was sent to the other side, and ho-declared that, this country received nothing by of compensation for that. Tho Oregon pine was produced by. Asiatic labour, and the American wage was 6s. for a day of ten hours. On that basis the ine'reaso' of wages in this country, as compared with America, would be ;25.'percent. The ocean freight of 2s. 6Jd. charged on American timber, plus tho duty of 25., wore no more than the mere freight on local timber from Ohakune to Wellington. They wanted the industry protected, and if tho Government would agree to put, a "proper duty on Oregon pine, they would be willing to come to an arrangement by which the Government should fix the price of local timber. , ' Government Interests. Mr. W. Morris (Westland) said that the Government .were interested in the production of timber in his district to the amount of 6s. per 100 ft., and the millers themselves did not get 7s. for it on the boat at Greymouth. It cost them 6s. 7d. to place the timber at the ship's side, and the selling price of the finest quality of timber was Bs. f.o.b. There was an average decrease of 2s. in the selling price of second-class timber. The millers would be satisfied* to let the Government fix tho price of timber, if they would increaso tho duty on Oregon. If the Government refused their inquest, they could not continue to,employ their men. In Wellington to-day quite two-thirds of the timber being distributed was Oregon. Within the next few days there would be meetings of the unemployed in timber districts of the West Coast. No orders were received for West Coast timber during July. He did not think that it was legal to man New Zealand timber vessels as American craft were manned. The latest American boat which had arrived in Wellington with 800,000 feet of timber had only six,hands on board. Sir. J. W,.Elis (South of Auckland district) said that the real troublo was "dumping" pure and-simple. The country was also threatened with an influx of Manchuriau timber, which was already coming into Australia. Mr. M. J. Reardon presonted a petition from 1000 timber workers in tho Wellington district, asking that consideration should bo extended to' the employers' in this matter., He spoke highly of the conduct of the millers to their employees.THE PREMIER'S REPLY. The Premier said that Mr. Millar arid himself wero fairly cognisant of the position of the milling trade, and of the effects, of importations. Those who wero interested iij 1 the other side of- tho.business—he could not remember if they were timber-merchants— had also asked'him to roceivo a deputation, • and ho had agreed to meet them next Monday. Tho Government wero as anxious as the millers to conserve an important indus- !' try, but they required morn information hei fore they could give a definite reply. If tho Government 1 -promised tho increase of duty, ' what assurance had they that in a year's • time, say, thf price of local timber woulc .jiot -bo corresppjjdingla advanced? He- be-^

lieved that tho Government would havo to go much furthor in this matter than the deputation had suggested. Profits Somewhere. j One of the State-owned mills had paid off its whole cost, and provided a few thousand pounds to spare, and this was one of tho things he was unable to understand, though lie did not for. a moment question the repre- : sentations which they had made with regard • to sawmillers throughout the country. He/, was of opinion that they would require.to' go a good deal further than had been suggested, for the Government was as anxioU3 as anyone to see the local trade conserved. It was quite evident that someone must bo making a largo profit out of timber in Now Zealand. They made full allowance for tho increased wages paid to workers. Tho Government would go into the matter aftor hearing both sides, and the deputation could consider what would bo regarded as a fair price for millers and for merchants. A largo section of the community, quite outside of the sawmillors and their, emploj'ees, were urging tho Government to go in an opposite direction, and tako tho duty off timber altogether—which they were not inclined to do—because these people felt the. pinch of costly buildings, small though they might be, resulting in high rents. In addition thero was a large section urging the- Government to put an export duty on timber grown in this country to prevent its being sent abroad, while against this ho had been told "by some of the millers that they must export a certain amount of timber to enable them to carry on their business. A Difficult Position. The position, therefore, was not an easy one, and he thought that the Government would require to go further than any of thoso prosent had'suggested._ They must, of necessity, consider the public. When they had heard the other deputation, his own belief was that they would require to consider what profit should be fixed as the maximum that millers and merchants should obtain, for otherwise, if a duty of ss. was imposed on foreign timber, they might find the present difficulty. only aggravated, since if the merchants were making an undue percentage of profit now, they would have still more opportunity of so doing with the increased duty, unless there was restriction of some sort. They would need to take caro that no sawmiller in the country should have an opportunity of inflating values or putting on record a different: position from the actual result of work. To ensure this thero would be necessary,' not a casual examination of books, but a careful , system of Government audit and inspection. Thoy were, anxious to help the industry, but it was a matter to which they could not givo an immediate reply. They must get tho other opinions placed before them, and as soon'as that was done it would be for tho Government' to consider what was a fair profit to allow to the different parties concerned, 5 per cent., 10 per cent., or what. The representatives of the deputation would receive tho most careful consideration of tho Government as the earliest possible moment. HON. J. A. MILLAR. The Hon. J. A. Millar said it had taken him by surprise to learn that tho timber workers in Amorica were Asiatics, and were receiving such small pay. He had written to tho Ministers of Labour in Canada, and the States, and intended to get full information as to labour and wages. In British Columbia —and he was told that the conditions thero rultJ pretty well for the whole Pacific coast —wages wore liighor than hero. Mr. Millar read an official list of wages paid fqr bush-work for a nine hours day, which supported this contention, and stated that, he was gotting tho rate paid in the mills. The Premier said that the Government would arrange for the information to bo cabled, so as not to delay matters. High American, Wages. Mr. Milla.r said the Government must bo justified before they mado the'largo increaso of duty which. was suggested. The Ameri-can-timber vessel that carao was of 498 tons net register, and carried six hands before the mast. She would not havo been allowed to carry the samo quantity of timber from a New Zealand port. Tho nuriib'er of hands ! was about the same as in tho local trade, but tho wages paid thorn wore nearly double those paid on New Zealand coasting vessols. Mr. Millar quoted the list of wages. It was quite that Oregon timber had been coming in lately-, but not in a great quantity yet, 'though he heard that largo orders had beoli given. i A sawmiller: Eight million foet. New Sawmills Opening.

Mr. Millar: Yes, but there are a lot of new sawmills opening up too, in sp'ito of the bad position. Ho .stated that four new mills were being opened in the Catline district. He wanted to help tho industry, but the Government must consider what amount of support should be given. Mr. Bennett said that the wages paid in America, were of secondary importance. He asked that the Government should - inquire into the local cost. of production. Much more timber could be- produced in America for an oxpondituro of £100 in wages than could bo produced for that amount here. The deputation would ask the Government to appoint a commission of inquiry to find out the local cost of . production. • Then thoy could assess a fair and reasonable amount of profit, and fix the price 6f' timber. . - Tho deputation then withdrew. INQUIRY ASKED FOR. . Mr. Hogan, M.P. for Wanganui, has given notico to ask tho Government whether they will institute a searching inquiry into tho state of the timber industry_ in tho Dominion, with a view to ascertaining whether the millers or tho merchants, or a combination of both, 'aro responsible for the enormous advance in tho price of timber in recent years, and with tho further object of recommending to this House the advisability of retaining the present duty on Oregon pino or abolishing it altogether. DEBATE BY LABOUR CONFERENCE. HIGHER. DUTY. Tho question of increasing the import duty on Oregon -pino timber was brought up at the Trades and Labour Councils' Conference yesterday by a motion in that direction, moved by Mr. J. Jackson (Westland). - Ho said Now Zealand, was being used as a dumping ground for Oregon pine, and when America had recovered from the financial crisis, the position would alter. Tho State at presont had mills, hut it should open stores. The millers were paying a fair rate of wages, and they were not bound by any award. . Mr. Alsweiler (Southland) drew attention to the 'workers' point of vierw. If. the mills were knocked out, where would the workers be? The Government had a surplus of threequarters of a million, and surely they should help such an industry. Mr. P. H..Hickey said that, there was a lot of misrepresentation as to tho wages paid in America. There thoy received more than in New Zealand, and tho work was done here by such obsolete methods. - He did not see why .they, should put on, an extra duty, bocause private enterprise would receive the benefit of it. Ho was not sure that the millers were so badly off as they made out. If tho Now Zealand men could not competo, it looked as if there was something wrong with the machinery or the methods. Mr. Howard said that somcono was making a big profit out of timber, and he would like to know who it was. Mr. Lightfoot said that any form of duty was of vory little use to tho worker. ' Mr. Cooper said the' reason the workers were groaning under heavy rents was partly tho cost of building material. The motion was carried by 14 to 10.