THE MOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 258, 24 July 1908, Page 9

THE MOUSE.

' x FIRST READING. The House met-at 2.30 . o'clock.; ' Tlio Farriers Bill No; 2. (Mr. Major) was introduced and read.a first.time.- 1 ; ";! FINANCIAL DEBATE. • The debate on tlio'Budget was. then pro?, ceeded with. • : Mr.' -E. G. ALLEN (Chalmers)' applauded the' sp;3cial land settlement of tlio Gov.ernr menfc,",and said tho' scheme;, anet two welldefined requirements: it helped'the man without. capital,; and offered' /optional tenure'.' DOspito the- efforts of, the/opposition' to misload/them, the farmers were : beginning to. rpcoghiso wore their/ best ;'fri,ends. . Ho supported tlio' Naval iricreaso, : /and' advocated greater'assistance to Volunteers..: . . ''No Pa{oiioci;Tr6'jsei-s." .'... ■ • ' : The' Hon. ;: C.'H; 3111/LS '-(Wa'iraii)' spoko optimistically of t-ho ".present ":financial posi-. tioii.-. ."1.-don't, ,see' aiiy ~working men with patches in their, trmisersj" he. said. . ''We' must acknowledge' the/Dominion 'has. suf'ferod, from;the financial reverses".in America, but still wo have much to be thankful for." There were thoso who 'said tho financial trouble in America would not affect us,'but his experience regarding America had always been the contrary.' Ho generally approved tho Government's ißudgct . proposals. As to Customs matters, though' .it was too early yet to speak/ definitely, he did not think much benefit was being derived from'.the' sugar remissions. 'He regretted the. remarks. of the member for .tho Hut't as to the visit' of the Americah.fleet..''J • • . ' Timber. Regarding timber,, importation,, the. position was exactly tho same, as in 1882-3, when the importation of , Oregon, pine, created . a panic all over New Zealand. The sawmiller was the pioneer, of, settlement, and the Government, should cortainly help the-pioneer and those dependont upon him. He regretted no mention was . made, in. the Budget of . the South, Island Main Truiik Railway.., He advocated a'fast ferry service between Totahi.Bay and Picton. - ~

Sir. Vf... H.. FIELD (Otaki), recalling, a; remark'of the Minister for; Education -regard--' |ng "wool kings,'' pointed.,out that the-fall .in tho price of . wool affected small farmors vory, severely. ' At' tl'io., samo ...time, if tho' wool kings " -were .affected, no one- should speak lightly of that fact, because thsso men had gained, their positions, aftor. many re-' Verses in .the, past,(Hear. hear.V, Ho. did not 'believif'ih r a Minister •'for -tedumion ,'-was out' of sympathy.) with..,tho',isheßp-fanmers,' .but, it was -a 'pitJ^,the: r remaJlcs-'h» thad | TTnado.' , dnr this. subject bad been made,- becauso they had, caused a good deal ..of 'f notion. in. the country..--'.:-:--■, -'-. --iA; Shcap'farmlng Instruction. . drew .attention'to tho uocessity for'instructing sheep-farmers,.hrtke' best class of' sheep for certain lands, in winter feeding, : and in how to. placo ~wool on, tho, market. Many thousands'of pounds wore lost through ignoranco on .tho part of. young farmers. lie dealt at, length with tho importation of timber, and'read a "circular on the matter .compiled by the RangitikoiSawniillers' Association::.. In, his.', own/district .wore' six saw-, 1 In each gase. bspensive, machinery had been imported, and' ; instilled; .. Tho : timber; was ..being.sold at .a- profit ..of' less than 15... . per: -lOOffc.,. the ;millers. were just '.ablo to do, this,- and-in' fact were only able to: make a; bare,'.living. "If the, present.'competition with 1 Oregon -pine was to; continue, .and-the latter allowed to,come in'.'at'-a less price than 10s.: : or. even 12s. :per 100 ft;,. then the mills in'liis' district would:.have, to" closo .down,. and .the' .money -invested would 'gOvUjj'.'in..' smoke.. ', In time, after"securing" possession of the'mar-' ket, the Oregon oxporters. would raise tho price of their timber. (Hear, hear.) Ho also argued that Oregon pine was not durable. (Hear, hear.) . : . • Other .Matters.)-' ....-, . • Touching other: Budget matters, Mr. : Field said that a large portion 'of the :; -national debt was ! really-not debt, being reproductive monoy.; Ho;thought the proposals 'in regard to .the, American fleot wore ,wise. .-A'.-nnllti-plicity of rifle'.clubs was advocated; also an appeal iboard' for hospital. employees. .. Ho' .plehdod the -claims of Foxtoii regarding-the control-; of* the Foxton ■ wharf.. as'- suggested in tho proposed'Foxton Harbour Board. Bill.' .Further-;, communication- betwden'. the East and ■ AVbst coasts, was, required'other- than' lvia' : .thq, -Slanafratu Gorge;, He suggested; ;a road .'frojn" Shannon -to, say, Eketahuna, and from Otdki to Carterton; .He'hoped the Government' Voiild inquire into the- advisability of 'doing' this. -.- ~:y-i : ;/ A "Hit Out." .; Mr; W.. SYMES'' (Patea) doalt at -lengthwith land tenure,''ilnd strongly supportbd'tho 1 freohpld" as --the only tenure -under which .the, peoplo'-'oir'-'t-he ; ' land, would .farm their lalid "to - the best-advantage. ■ As to-OldAgo Pensions," lie was against endowments • for this piirposo. Ho made a sweeping criticism of tho'Government Departments. They had mon who were old fossils, and .who wore-not only running the.Department but'the Ministers .as well., • Liberal measures, were being .administered, with' Conservative machinery. Ho strongly advocated a "comprehensive local Government Bill such, as had been' promised tho country,for the past ten year's,,with- tho abolition of .-road boards. , He . approved the new land proposalsj and-in .'suggesting, improvements thereto said in timo the Government would come right round to the freehold. (Government, jeers.) . Asking .wliyithb .railways 'did not '.pay, Mr; Symqs" said' in' his district fourteen miles of " railway had ',been constructed,and, for long it. was, : impossible to. travel and return, homo within ono week. ..Now tho,, journey could be , done "in. two days/, Iri.a-little, while, it might bo,effected in one day. Thorb word several Bills coming' down, said Mr. Symes, and ho would rbsorvo further romarks till they wore, "to hand.:., If they were good ,measuros ho would congratulate ' the Government; if they woro not he would say what ho thought'. But ho' was tired of tho mutual admiration- business. ' ' ' ■ . , A Government Supporter. Mr...GRAHAM (Nelson), speaking of tho debt of the Dominion, asked was it possiblo to dovolbp a young country without money; Those who',went on the land;must havo'financial .assistance, arid if .tho' Government could not provide it,, the development could not go forward. Tho interest on a largo portion of tho money borrowed was paid by .those who obtained assistance. Would tha general taxpayer have to pay for interest on £440,000.f0r. purchase' of private estates for -settlement; £50,000 on tho Hutt railway; £].85;000'-loans to local'bodies, and other sums allocated for advances to .settlprs, and -advances', to workers'? Tho country .was now reaping' tho beneftt'of the extra .taxation on ,'tlia land monopolists.'. Every Other source-.of-

taxation had increased oxcopt that of customs. Ho advocated caution for tho 'future, for. whereas tho revenue' Slight stop suddenly, tho. oxpentlituro> must '-continue, lie advocated an increase in the capital of tho Advances' to Settlers Ddpartm'oht to £10,000:000, for then further -borrowing would bo rendered unnecessary from, the fact that repayments Would keop .the Department going. The Department was unable to nicet the requirements of' applicants, oven'on gilt-edged security. He knew .of numbors of people who wanted to borrow to pay off 5 jier cent, mortgages..!,..., Sir W. J. Steward. Sir W. J. STEWARD.(Waitaki) suggested several changes in the incidence' of'tho land and income taxes, and. urged the necessity.. of. more efficient provision for defence, especially in view of tho growth of Japan. Thero' should bo . 50,000 stands of rifles iii' the Dominion, and a supply of light artillery, and all youths should undorgo a certain amount of military training until thoy were 21 years of age. Ho advocated an active land for settlements policy,'and tho speedy prosecution of the trunk railway lines of both islands, as well as several branches. He regretted that tho Financial Statement had. nothing to say of afforestation. Miv JENNINGS -(Egmont) urged tho Minister for Public "Works to authorise tho construction of the Mokau bridgo and so link up tho rich districts of Auckland and Taranaki." This route would be used by stock from as far south lis I'almerston "North, Woodville, and tho Hawkc's Bay. Tho surrounding country was very fine for grazing purposes; Ho also asked for a survey as soon as possible of the railway line that would connect Tarann !--.i with Auckland. Land-Settlement. • The extent of land settlement in tho backblocks was shown by the fact- that in his electorate, irrespective .of Maori. lands, 1171 tenants had taken up sections of a total area of '479,585 acres. A few years ago -this land was virgin bush. .Thirteen years ago tho song -of the tui. was heard where now tho chimes ,of the -Taihape town clock resounded.' .He was glad at ;the vigorous proposals of the Government, and advocated subsidies for ; local bodies. More should be done in ! educational matters, especially, in.the back-blocks. Mr. Jennings recited , a set of . original' verses,which consisted of a happy, eulogy of tho pioneer. • ■ The' verses wero . loudly applauded. : Mr. Jennings's peroration was hardly so; successful, for he hoped "that all citizens would.help this grand did ship. of. Now, Zealand to remain always at the top of the treO'.','... Criticism ,and : Praiss'; " ; Mr. J. T., HOGAN (Wangamii) quoted taxation returns to 'show that' the greater part of tho revenue came from sources other than the Customs, while the Customs duties were such as.not to press heavily on the working people. Consequently, tho taxation as a whold was chiefly paid by-those best able to'do so. He advocated larger grants for maintenance of roads,' and. ..condemned the practice,of the; Land. Department in making merely bridle tracks .in Some cases where it would, 'ho oonterided,; havo,!been more economical: in tho long run to construct .roads of full width. He thought tho co-ojlerativo sysfem on public works should bo retained, but tho men should be given the choice between that system and day labour.. The increased' grant for making roads in-tho back blocks was a-step in the right direction. Old Ago Pensions. Ho approved of tho' jirintiple of national annuities, and hoped' tho proposed. superannuation scheme for local; bodies'-would bo promulgated. byParliament, instead of being left to the local, bodies. In' regard to Old Ago/Pensions, lie ,thought the charitable aid boards , might .bo given discretionary power to .modify hardships caused by depriving old, people of their pensions-in certain caisefc.' Ho suggested '. that cripples should bo granted' pensions. . Ho commended tho work of tho Agricultural Dcaprtment, and suggested that by .way .of making a systematic effort to stamp out orcharll pests, spraying, should bo undertaken throughout .'tlio Dominion- by , : tho Department, and tlio owners of" tho orchards charged for the work' done'.'" -'Of,' tho' increaso. of tho money to ''bo made! '"avait'able for-advances -to ;settlers'to five'.millions a year. 1 Though, almost .aii-pbace-afcatiylprico iiiari,'.lie folf'tliat wp should. bVyight" in .increasing" this 'naval snbsidy as'proposed. Other Matters. ; ' '\l.' , 'Ho.noted that tho'rate' of. interest had not. como down as might be oxpecte'd in sympathy ' with the fall abroad, and ho suggested that a Stato Bank could romedy such grievances. Ho warmly approved of the spccial settlement scheme'of tho Budget, but, thought-it should also apply t-o. smaller associations and- to workers desiring suburban allotment's.' 'There should.be no.unemployed difficulty in such a country -as this,- and; tlio present difficulty ■ was.' exaggerated. V'No provision was made, except by employment in tlio country,' but many, owing to want of ex- : perienee or family ties;-could not go to country work. AVork should 1 bo provided in the towns through State Labour Bureaux placed' in all tho cities, and kept in touch.with each other. • Men should be'.sont to'any city' whoro' there - were ■ vacancies, and .their fares' paid and. subsequently recovered from them.! The Industrial Arbitration' Act had yet to bo, proved ,to-have 1 failed. : , 1 '

Railways. Ho'pointed'out that'branch'railways were far.more numerous inithe South Island i.thaii'. in. the. North, yet the bulk .of tlio,.revenue; came from the North. He -liojjed that the bulk of the expenditure in 'tho:future ( 'would ; be on .Noxth. Island, lines.-'Ho,had learnt with .satisfaction - that tho Amalgamated . Society. •of -Railway- Servants■ had voted . £1500. -to'., tho Superannuation Fund in order that the men tvhq- weiit. ;out; on .strike-.'some, years ago might liavo the benefit of ; the fund, aiid 'reviewed ..with approval tho: improvements m the ; conditions of railway employees. When the flattening of railway grades was under consideration, he would liko: attention to be given to, the .line between. .Wanganub.and Marton,. where the hill might, he thought, b'e avoided.' timber. ' , An attempt should ..be..-.made, to- conserve the Dominion'smilling timber from-too rapid, destruction. He contended that Oregon, timber did 'not compete .with the local "bread and butter lines," : and he quoted four-price-lists to show that ;ordinary building rimu' was sold at'l4s; 6d. per 100 ft., as, against Oregon' 17s. 6d. : The prico of Oregon,was going, up; and was not likely to come down_ again.' Only 4i per cent, of the timber sold in Wellington' was Oregon, and some of that went up country. The millers had been bumping up the prices of New Zealand ' timber until Oregon threatened them; but- it did not really hurt them.The cost of dwelling 'housegi'hajl been largely. increaosed by., these successive rises in : the price' of timber. the Financiers Again. . Mr. d. E. MAJOR (Hawera), in dealing with the finances of the Dominion,'said that the rate of interest' had ' become excessivo through .the- concerted, action of the ,banks.; The business of the country was consequently almost at a standstill.. No matter., what the security,- it Was about impossible ;to get, an advance. The. whole country was .'suffering from this cessation'of business.' : Bu£ for.'the Advances to Settlors Department there ,would : have been a financial panic. Imperial and Other Matters. '-' r \ L - He advocated cheap cables. Ho would' ap. prove.of a larger naval subsidy than £100,000 por annum, if tho country could afford it, and'it should.be given conditionally. / Regarding an insurance on our sea-borno trado -tlio amount, was .little enough. 110 was very sorry .that there had been, any fault-finding with the hospitality, to bo-, shown .to'the) Amoricaii -.fleet. '.. Tho 'Americans ' wero our big cousins, and wo ..wero .honoured by- their acceptance of our invitation. -.He -thought tho \local, bodies' employees'. superannuation, scheme would bo impracticable ' unless the local bodies combined for the purpose. Tlio now settlement schcmo- should- bo.-widened to assist individuals as well as .association!! of ten or'more. The re'ceSs. tours of Ministers" had done much good," nrid t-b-this cause ho attributed the increased gr'ant : for' backblocks roadinj*. '■ Money, coii'lu " : not ho ': better' spent. '• ■'' ' : . -. : ' Mr.'-Herrios; TJ'o'n't you tlunk tlio election -had something to- : do;With' it

Mr.'Major: If it" had," so much tho better. Continuing, Mr. Major advocated quinquennial Parliaments, and concluded by stat-' ing tli,it although thero had. been a great deal of criticism of the Budget, it had not. to his mind, ■ altered tho facts disclosed therein. (Applause.) Tlio debate was adjourned, on tho motion of Mr. Macpherson, until 2.30 this afternoon, and tho House rose at 12.40 a.m.