THE'HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 257, 23 July 1908, Page 9

THE'HOUSE.

FIRST READINCS. Tho.-Hoiiso.met.at;'2.3o: .!'■ . .. The,. Auckland'. Harbour Board Loan and Empowering- Bill* (Mi\ ; Kidd); and-' thelnanr gahua"County'.Council Empowering Act, 189-1,. Amendment* Bill. (Mr. Golvin), 'wero' read a, first time. ..:••• . r /.'- • FINANCIAL DEBATE. The' Financial Debato was than continued. - Mr. J.tt'. ARNOLI), (Duncdiri South) saw no'r.easoii'for a large surplus to.bo shown if the revenue was' well expended.' Ho congratulated "the Government on its Budget. He showed, tljo iiicreaso in the wealth and prosperity of,the Dominion, quoting various land values and public wealth returns; and ho'contended that this, prosperity was participated', in.'by . the. poorer 'classes, as was, shown, by,' the'fact that in IDO2 tho : savings bank woro £71870,000,' arid in 1907 £12,825,000. ; ■Nevertheless,; he admitted that the .borrowing..by the Government and local bodies, had . undoubtedly affected tho money market to'small .borrowers. •.. .... ■. Ths ■ Uhsmpiay'cj. V "' ■ ' Ho continued that there was need for caution in tho future. There wero unemployed every winter,. but this year was remarkable for a greater number than over in tho .p'ap't." ,As to tho proposed expenditure on the"'American fleet reception, there was sufficient 'money in the Dominion, to entertain o.tir visitors properly, 'and yet to look after'those who wero in the position of want. Old Age Pensions. , Dealing'with 'old age pensions , he quoted returns/of the past few years and said it seemed'that the Government-had made up their: minds that tho total expenditure on old age pensions, was to be rcduccd. Ho put on record .somo eases of alleged hardr sliip where, applicants had been refusedpennions to bear out his assertions. Ho hoped replies would .bo elicited from ,tho Government thereby, or better, still that .amending legislation would be introduced. The Minister should make inquiries into th.o administration of tjie Department, lie did not blame tiio Magistrates, but the. tuotliod of administration. He was glad to see provision for. a national annuities sc-hcT.e . ; Industrial Matters. Since the Arbilrn'uiijii Ai:t Amor'iimenfc Bill was bufuru the Labyu." Bills Committee,

and ho was a member of that-committee, ho would say little in refercnco to it at this juncture. Ho did not beliovo that eitlior employers , or employees wanted tho present Act repealed. Employers appreciated tho relief from competition among themselves in tho way of wages, hours, etc. Tho workers woro equally opposed to abolishing arbitration. Ihis was, shown by tho resolutions ■ passed by trades unions and councils in regard to thoso who lia.d broken tho law. The late unrest was not duo to economic condibut to tho administration of 'the Arbitration' Act. . Tho allianco of the Era- ' ployors' Fedoration with tho Farmers' Union created an unfortunate impression among tho workers, . and provoked the country . workers to combine and appeal to tho Arbitration Court; That Coalition. , It was absolutely correct that suggestions liad : been mado. for a coalition between tho Opposition and some members , of the Government party. This was riot duo to a desiro for tho continuance of a progressive policy, but because they believed that if those two sections got together on tho Treasury benches they would be able to overcome 'any influence, .that might be exorted by. tho Labour party;, Tho consequence was that Labour people wero being forced into a position which a few years ago they did not desire. , They thought it was necessary to secure special representation in. Parliament becauso nobody there seemed to care for their interests.' Of coiirso'that'was not so, but tho position he'had indicated was coming about . as" tho; result'"of tho .actions'.of thoso who. specially did not want to see .it. What was required" was not arbitration but conciliation., ." .. 1 . Some Suggestions. He referred to tho setting, up of a Board iii 1897 to settlo tho differences in tho bootmaking trade as the first instance of an Industrial Council. It had' succeeded very well, r The Arbitration Court would still bo necessary with , compulsory -powers.. If disputes, could, .be heard within., a reasonable, time, if preference wero given by. statute .to .Unionists, and if the Conciliation Boards wero .strengthened and, the "Willis Blot" removed, it would go a lohjj way to satisfy the workors.. . The industrial position-was more acute now in New Zealand than it had been, since 1890, and the workers wanted to" know what was going to.be done for them. Some of, the proposals before . tlio , country -liow would not meet tho requirements of one side or,tho other.' "I.am not going'-to ontor into an argument on the question now," said Jdr. Arnold, "because I.believe tlio Minister will listen to what is fair, and that a reasonable Bill'can be ; made:out of-tho one 'now before the Labour Bills Committee." As to' • tho appointments . to' the Upper House of. Labour, advocates, ho did not think there Was ;,ono appointee at whom the fingor of scorn, could ;be pointed, by Labour or by. employers. None of them could be termed agitators of tho. past, and none of,the appointments w'ero made with,, the object of getting thoso mon out of the. road and keeping thenuquiot. , ' . ' , A Country Member. . I Mr.' A. E. REMlNGTON.(Rangitikei) said that many, of tlio unemployed round the cities were the class who would not go into the country and accept work -offered 'them. In congratulating Mr. Arnold on his remarks on labour matters Mr. Remington'regretted that tho Opposition - had had but ono representative on their benches during his instructive address. Ho combated the .'statements that tho Vak(p,tion Department hadbeen placing fictitious values on properties. Regarding tho Government's -new land proposals, _ ho questioned the advisability of the country guaranteeing the full amount of the money borrowed'on the security of, land. -Three-fifths would'bo a fair guarantee.To'show I that 'the. money spent > pn" ; tlio ' Main Trunk Railway ;would be remunerative,'-'-he. ■ said that; the . revenue last year from tho throe stations, Mangaweka, IJtiku, and Tailiape, was £60,000. He was glad tho tenure of the Native settlements qf'.Taumarunui, Utikii,' and 'others,' 'wa's-to' bo-' ! MT;6red ;: to' thefreehold. Ho. hoped enabling would be' brou'gltt'*ddifn thJS^sescibn.^ 1 *"*«' Tiio "Silent" Monitor. -, Mr.-HARDY (Selwyn) :said.tho--remarks,; by, Mr. Arnold .as' to impartial .appointments .to the Labour -Department. recalled - that -Mr.; Clllvor, olio of tho gentlemen-appointed to . a " nico comfortablo billet, at Napier," .had been secretary, to tho " great Liberal party " for somo years. Mr. Hardy knew of no roason why ho shouldiiot.be trusted, and knew of no reason why . ho should not bo a firstrate maii-r-but lie might reasonably bo. ox-■pectedtohavo-.a little : bit of bias. .Another gentleman .appointed-. in Wellington from Christchurch had been an agitator of the first : wator—his name was Mr.' Gohns.. Mr. Hardy believed him to be a good officer, but -."hero also was an umpire with a leaning towards , one ; side." . -Referring to. tho customs revision; ho said one resiilt. had been to.create rings and trusts, and to,put up prices,- Wore the ~workmen's wages, -increased by the, preference tariffs? _ Mr. Tanner: No,; but tho amount of work is. - ■ :.y-,v- • ~. Alleged Implement Combine. \ ' .Referring to - tho. Agricultural Implement Manufacture, Implement .and-.Sale Act, Mr. iiardy . said that in consequence of an agreemeat, which was in accordance with the Act, a list .of prices had .been, published, and prices had been -'raised. Tho. workers wero not getting tho money, but a,combination of manufacturers was securing it. Disc harrows were subject to a duty of .12$' per cent, in Australia... They, came -into -New Zealand free. Yet in'this country, in his own storo, thoy wero sold for. 15 guineas, which was-50 per cent.' more.,than the price, in Australia. Mr. Hardy -also-explained that, land taxation, was- unfair, as-between town and coun-' try. £100,000 invested in a city -business would pay only a 10 per cent, income tax on the 'returns from the -investment. If it wero invested on land, tlio taxation would-be £1466-j allowing for £20,000 worth, of improvements, -there would ho' £1138 to .pay. "If'you are going to burst us up," said tho lion, member, "burst us up honestly." Finally, Mr. Hardy advocated tlie formation of an active country party-in tho House, and spoke of the advantages of freehold tenure as giving tho best'incentive.to tho settlor. Mr. Barbor'a Views. , • Mr, H. P. BARBER (Newtown) defended preferential-trade, and quoted figures to show that Great Britain's trade with other parts of tho Empire had befen partly directed to foreign countries. Ho also defended thoGovernment's ' borrowing policy, and eulogisedthe advances to workers.. Ho would admit that tho Workers,' Dwollings Act had not been of much valuo to Wellington. He hoped tho ■workers', dwellings policy would be maintained and extended so as to assist thoso who could not give security for aii advance. Ho approved of tho schemo f6r facilitating subdivision and close settlement.of estates, .and maintained that it was hot inconsistent 'fora leaseholder to tako that attitude, becauso ' tho schemo' would not- chango. any Crown lands into freehold. \Ho advocated an .carlier train t-o bring men working at Petone back to their homes in Wellington after leaving work. Arbitration. ' ■ 111 regard to . industrial arbitration ho said that a law tha.t was not effective towards both sides would never bo acceptable, but ho believed that tho Aot • could be amended, and ho was strongly of opinion that tho principlo of industrial arbitration should bo maintained. Mr. Barber proceeded to argue against-the optional provision of the Fire Brigades Act, 1907; and quoted figures to show that tho abolition of tho Wellington Fire Board would causo an expenditure of £7000 a year by the city,, instead of £1300. Ho hoped the Chinese Immigration Act would be strictly enforced, as tho reading test would be sufficient to keep tho Chinese out. The Timber Quostiori, . Mr. Barber then dealt with tho timbor duty question. Ho said tho presont duty amoiintod to 33 per cent., and if an industry could not livo when protected so-highly it had better bo given up. H'o denied that Chinese, Japanese, and other coloured labour was employed in the felling and milling of Oregon pine._ The captain of^tho Mahukona had stated in a Press intorviow that 110 sfich labour was employed, and that tho

ordinary mill hands wero paid two dollars a day. It was well knoivn that the Canadian lumbermen wore well paid. There was a timber trust hero, and it * was responsible for havoc in a considerable number oi' industries. He had letters from people who were in tho habit of building houses to let, and they told him that they had stopped 'building because timber had gone up so much- that, with tho high price of. land, tlioy could not lot tho houses at # rents that tho workers could afford to pay! Hundreds of carpenters were consequently out of work.Tho millers had themselves to blame, as could bo seen from the way they lmd put lip the' prices. Ho read from price-lists showing that 10-ineh red pine hnd gone up from Bs. Gel. per 100 ft. in 1900 to 14s. 6(1. at tho present timo. This was ordinary building quality. Tho prices of other timbers luid been similarly raised. Ho thought concrete would soon be a 1 cheaper building material than wood. Already brick was. coming largely into use. The millers had killed the- gooso that laid tho gulden egg. Only four million feet of- Oregon pine had been imported in : i the last six months, and as half of it was still in tho yards, ho submitted that it could not havo affected tho market. . Besides,- Oregon pino was of no use for outsido work. Flo stated that merchants who took timber from nonassociated mills were refused supplies from firms belonging to the West Coast Sawmillers' Association, or if they were supplied they did not get discount. Ho advocated the abolition of all duty on imported timber. Wages and- Pricos.- ■ ' Mr. H. G: ELL (Christchurch South) advocated restriction of tho export of white pino in tho interests iof tho dairy industry. Ho declared that tho boots used by-the working classes were made in the'colony and the prices had not been increased since the' now tariff came in. It had,, however, shut out shoddy :boots made. by sweated labour. Dealing with labour questions, Mr. Ell quoted a furniture price-list to show that shorter hours and higher wages had not prevented considerable reductions of prices without any dptorioratiqn. of quality. In a roferenco.to the workers' dwellings erected by tho Government, Mr. Ell- read figures to show. that tho. rents Wore considerably less than thoso of similar houses privately owned. He thought tho tenants should bo allowed to purchase the houses but not. the land- More houses should be built in I 'the neighbourhood of Wellington. . Ho advocated cheap railway fares • for workers, and dealt with taxation, and other matters in the Budget. Mr. GREENSLADE (Waikato) deprecated aUempts_to write down tho country's financial position.. He sa.id that he had seen letters written, in New Zealand papers, re-pub-lished, at Home. Ho wished-that twice the sum to bo spent on\backbl'ock roads had been , allocated.. , , . The Memfaor for Wostland. : Mr. T. Y. SEDDON (Westland) dealt with the timber industry and the -importation of Oregon pine., It was not a fact,, as those who wero opposed to an -import duty declared, that tho importations come from Canada! .Oregon was a United States district. Tho forests of tho United States and Canada were infinitely larger, .than those in Nov.' Zealand, and quito overshadowed our resources. Ho went on to say that the timber mills of Westport were 52 in number, and employed over 1000 men; but there wero many other workers indirectly benefited. Last year -the Westland timbor turned out was 51,387,000 feet-, but this year- thero would be. a. great'falling-off. Already ilia hnd received a telegram Gtating that 110 orders could bo received from Wellington, and that oomo of tho mills, would have-to closedown. Hard- to Belieyo. ■ It was hard to beliovo that timber could be brought'from Pugot Sound, America, and landed at-Wellington at Gd. per 1000 feet less- than from West Const. It cost practically tho same to' carry tho timbor GOOO miles by sea ns 60 miles on the New Zealand railways. He appealed earnestly to tho Ministry to assist the sawmillors, and to retain , work for-their employees. v The adjournment of,, ; the'debate till this afternoon was moved by Mr. E.' G. Allen, and carried. • • ::. -. • . :' From tha Council. , .. The Inferior- Courts<, Procedure . Bill; -the :Acts Interpretation Amendment'..Bill, and tho' Town Boards Amendment Bill woro received from tho'Le'gislativo Council, aiid wero read a first time.' ■ ■■'.' ' .' The House adjourned at 12.4 a.m.