THE HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 247, 11 July 1908, Page 7

THE HOUSE.

THE QUESTION OF SITE. . The House of Representatives. met. at 2.30 yesterday aftornoqni.,,-,--V,,,- , Tho PRIME" (Sir ' Joseph .Ward) .<?f which, he had already given "ffotico"'bo'sist up* to' report'upon ■ the site most'suitable for tha Parliamentary' Buildings. ' . Mr. AV. T., WOOD moved as an amendment' that 'it'.ho-an-instruction t6/;the committee. appointed v tb'inquire into :and report upon'a .suitable site,in. the Manawatu, .'Nelson; : Marlborough, and Wairarapa districts, such report to state tho 'comparative costs of, erecting _now buildings in the abovementioned districts as against the suggested' sites in the city; and also to state the probable result from a proposal to'establish' a' new Dominion city, in one of the .districts.! referred to. Mr. T. MACKENZIE (Waikouaiti) seconded the motion., The development, of' Wellington, he' saidj was such that he did not suppose; there would soon be much room for Parliament or Government buildings here. .Wellington wanted her hounds extended 25 miles out, and it was anticipated, the city in time would not bo much smaller than London. (Laughter;) 'Ho suggested Waikouaiti as a suitable site. (Laughter.) Ba .Practloal.> The' PRIME MINISTER said that the matter, of course,' was ono. for the Houso to consider, but the proposal was for the committee to bo set up to report upon, sites in Wellingtons ;• He recognised Mr. Wood's anxiety. to put forth tho claims of his locality, but he also had his duty to perform. Parliament ought to be erected within ; the next 'three years, "and if they had to seek outside places accommodation would not be roady in ten years. To do as suggested would require the sotting up of a Royal Commission. He askod that tho House bo practical. Ho recognised that there were boautifiil spots, but undisputable reasons existed why Wellington should remain ' tho seat of Government. ' A Model City.

. _ Mr. LAURENSON, (Lyttelton) asked was it being practical to say thoir Parliament tary ' building should bo erected in a city' for. which a loan of a million was already being sought to reclaim additional and much neodod lands... The practical thing to do was' -to ask if better sites wero not available. Mr. Wood was proposing the practical thing. Tho convenience of members for a few. years was a small matter in comparison, to the magnitude of the question. Wellington would lose, about- a- ninth of her population, but in three years she would have recovered that loss with tho opening of the Main Trunk Line, tho acquisition of the Manawatu Railway, and with tho largo ,harbour works' "proposed. 'He ropeated his suggestions of a previous , occasion that £900,000 would cover , the cost of a new, city, and that the annual interest upon that would be paid by the value of tho land hi-Wellington; In time the returns from tho proposal, with the increase in value of •the 'Wellington lands, would go. a long way to pay the old-ago pensions and other State charges. When once tho question was- put -to the country he knew what the vordiet ■would be. ■ Ho /knew that vested interests would hold out for Wellington. He did hot blame those people. But the country' was 'going to have a'referendum with initiative, and--if this matter came before the people he knew what the verdict would be—a voto of-., ton to one in favour of moving the capital. They would have thus a question for the next-election.. Rotorua. Mr. HERRI ES (Bay of Plenty) was in sympathy with 'the amendment. • Ho saw 110 reason- why the proposal should delay tho building proposal. Tho Lands Department could be asked to submit a report on probablo lands. Tho Primo Minister: And decide without visiting tho sites?

Mr.' Herries: Thero would be only two or threo sites. Tho Primo Minister: You moan to say you would' tako tho responsibility without visiting, tho sito. Mr, Herries said bo objected to the amendment bccaiiso it savoured too much of local politics, and ho suggested thowholo of tho Dominion should be includod. Why should they not go to the Government township of Rotorua? Mr. T. MACKENZIE: You.might bo blown up. (Laughter.) The Only Site. Mr. MASSEY said no practical'man could como to any conclusion than that .Wellington

S t'ru, 0n P' aco, suitable for the capital site. rhcro was the tromcndous outlay in trio past to provide accommodation, and tnoro was tho housing bero for civil servants and members and officers of Parliament. To uo as suggested would mean, many millions— how many it was not for him to say. They •required more monoy for other purposes than they could afford to spend on tho suggos<°!\j 0 member for Lyttelton. As far at Rotorua' was concerncd,' they could' got into sufficient hot water in Wellington. If tho. Crovernmeut had proceeded with the work of . erection without delay the present question would not havo arison. ' Sir. HORNSBY OVairarapa) said tho cost .to, Zealand of Mr. Laurenson's scheme would be nil from tho proper utilisation'of their \\ elhngton lands. Ihere were members advocating Wellington who were intorosted. in property .matters here,, though, he did not nialto any particular inferences. He approached the" questiou from the' national standpoint. Look Ahead. _ I

(Avon) said; ho .would ivoti with ■ tho member for Palmerston for 'th< reason that a very largo question was in- • volvcd, and they should look- ahead not foi years , but for.' centuries. • Had they reachec the, millennium when wars wero to cease ? Anc was their-capital sceiiro on the. coast? The iiritish Government had come to roaliso thai a separate Navy could not,-be"'kept in ever? 0110. of the seven seas. Some fine morning they would wako up and'find three or foui ■smart vessels.in'possession of the town! 'It would paralyse the entire Dominion. (Hear, near.). It was ho use trusting in-tyro Volunteer officers. ; He • graphically': described Volunteers rushing to arms in tho', event oi an attack on tho cit.y. "I fjvv youthc words of. truth and .soberness," said Mr. Tanner, in reply to the murmurs around him. He proceeded, to. speak further .-with-consider-able earnestness. There could riot- be a Better time than, now-to, deal with ..this question. Could not men rise abovo the constant cry for bush tracks and-roads and bridges •and look at matters from- a national standpoint? . . o . -■ ; - - Mr. ELL (Christcliurcli) said this was a big question, and, perhaps, a dangerous 0110, since thero no doubt was a slumbering Volcano about in Wellington morabers. (Laughter.) Ho said the creation of a model city sist y y ca rs, return a revenue of £200,000 a year. The land in this town would yield sufficient, revenue to provide buiMines m the new city. . " Let Ua Get on to Business.": Mr. BOLLARD (Eden) said Auckland had been the original capital- city, and. an injustice was dqno. to-that 'placo..-when it.-was removed. (Laughter.). Itjfc wero removed again it should go back to Auckland. : But he knew there was no chance'of i the seat of Government being removed, especially to Auckland, so "lot us get on to business'." , M. r - T HOMPSON T , who supported the Prime Minister, took vehement exception to Mr. Tanner s contemptuous roferenco to the constant °nes of the people in the back-blocks. «. u ? (Wellington Central) said they had had more amusing and ridiculous speeches from Mr. Wood's catch-penny proposals, than they had over heard in tho House before. Ho said Mr. Laurenson's proposal was a land nationalisation qno, and it was about tho only chance the land nawould have.. They wanted a land nationalists' city. Ho ridiculed the hnanciaJ figures put forth by Mr. Laurenson, and said that thoy would work out so that in timo tho Government would havo moro money than it knew''what to do with. Ho also dealt with "Roar-Admiral" Tanner's remarks. Ho. said ho favoured tho old Parliament site.. Tho whole cost of tho Government'proposals (all of which ho did not agreo with) would-bo £200,000, and tho Government House sitccould bp leased and ; would yield a .large royenue. : ;'There: was :rio in ,■ having tho capital site.'on ."'tlid / waterfront. Tho proposal of.Mr. Laurorison would cost at least two millions. The lion;' member's 1 proposal would draw 9000 peoplo from Wellington, and* Mr. iFisher .showed from, 1 a national standpoint that Wellington should remain the goat'*o'£iGover®merith:;'fi^ , s:k.ti-«* Mr. PODLI} (Au'6klan'd)"moved as a further amendment to-allow the selection' to bo mudo frb'm any locality , in . New: Zealand. -' This was seconded by Mr. ,Ti K. Sidoy, and carried, -- >-. • ' - - ' . .Tho Hon. W. HALL-JONES- asked if-the members realised ■ that 'tho amendment -meant' that the. building of. Parliament House would be long delayed. ;Thoy could get- no report jrom tho. committee forat least itwelvo j months For .all .sites suggested would have' to be,' considered. The cost of.creating a new capital and erecting new buildings would bo at least fcw.o millions.-. Mr. • MALCOLM (Clutha) ;- said tho European oapitals suffering most from invasion wero thoso located-inland. v -• Mr. J; G. W. AITKEN (Wellington East) said' supposing Wellington were not tho :apital arid was taken by an enemy,-where ivould the difference be? He did not/treat the suggestion of attack as seriously as somo, for other nations did not take us as seriously, is-we took ourselves, and tho fate of'tho' Empiro would bo decided in tho British Channel. - Before a model city could, be arreted —with a wall • around to" keep out lttack—— . . ..

; A Member: A stone-wall?, (Laughter.) ' Mr. t Aitken: — the cost would roach something like ten millions. The buildings would bo permanent, and every, man employed would 'havo to be housed, and the outlay would have to be provided by tho country. Sir Joseph Ward Roplies. The PRIME MINISTER, in replying, - said a modol city would cost far and away above two millions. He showed tho cost of providing sanitary arrangements, water supply, electrio lighting, tram systom, etc. Whoro was the inonoy for.this coming from? Mr. .Aitken: A State Bankl (Laughter.) Tho Prime Minister: This place had'been selected as the seat'of Government-by Royal Commission, and had romnined so for thirty years. Port Underwood,- tho place .referrecl to by Mr. Lauronson, would require to be reached, he thought, by a tunnelled railway——

Mr. Laurenson said the place ho had in mind was twenty miles from Port Underwood, and was on a main branch of railway. Mr. J. Allen (Bruce) pointod out that tho proposal to seek an outside site was worth consideration. ' The Prime Minister: Do you suggest that tho State should own the whole-place? . Mr. Allen: Why'not? (Laughter and :cries of. "Initiate him, Laurenson. '), . Mr. Allen proceeded to say that the presont was a time when they must take a decided step;in their national •life." ' - - Tho debate was interrupted the tea adjournment. '• .On' tho House resuming at 7.30 ; o'clock, .the debate was' continued. ■ • ■ : Tho PRIME MINISTER, made a' vigordus defence of. tho Government's' action in? "nothaving goho forward with' the rebuilding \of Parliament, and explaining wh'y' Fritin's contract bad been stopped. Ho certain the best had been done. Thero wero sections of the Press-that saw no good in Trliat had been done,- but tho bulk of the newspapers saw eye to'eye with tho Government in this mattel-; Ho wanted to correct any impression that it was intended to effect an immediate removal of the Government buildings 'to the - old- Parliamentary. site. • ■

Mr. GRAY (Christchurch) moved as a further ameiidmonfc that it bo an instruction to tho committeo ■to submit'recommendations as to tho disposal of -lands and buildings belonging to the Crown in Wellington. The debate was carriod on until 9.25, when Mr. Gray's further amendmont was lost. A'division 011 Mr. Wood's' motion was ;!ini taken, which resulted in its defeat bv 4'2 to 27. LOAM DILL. After the supper adjournment the House wont into Committee on the Loan Bill. The PRIME MINISTER protested against people making much of certain criticisms of our railway management published in AmeThere was nothing out of tho ordinary in tho J3ill except that tho amounts wero raised as required. Further, information aa to details would be givon in connection with the Public Works Statement. The Bill was then reported from tee. . . The PRIME MINISTER moved the third reading of the Bill.

A dobato resulted, members with grievances against the Public Works and Bmlway Departments taking the opportunity of giving expression to them. . The PRIME MINISTER, in replying, spoke in support of the Government's policy in regard _ to the- public works-and railway expenditure. In the course of his remarks ho said:—"A strong general effort has been mado for sometime past to weaken the general financo of this country. That is . a serious statement to make, but l ean prove it, and if I get the opportunity I will do it ma manner, that will astonish the House. If I can get:' permission to use correspondence "that I havo in my hands I will provo it up to the hilt." The -Bill was then read a third timo on tho voices. Tho House: adjourned at. 12 o'clock until 2.30 on Tuesday - afternoon.