TRAMWAYS DISPUTES

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 206, 25 May 1908, Page 8

TRAMWAYS DISPUTES

ABORTIVE CONFERENCES AT AUCKLAND. Little prospect of settlement. ■ GREAT PUBLIC INCONVENIENCE. (nr TELKGEAPn.—SPECIAL COBItESPONDENT.) : : Auckland, May 23. A determined stand is still boing mado by tho tramway men who are out on strike, and the end of the troublo does not appear any nearer. Mr. Walklate, the manager of the Company, kept his promise to attend this morning's meeting of the men, but tho result of this conference arid a second ono this afternoon was practically abortive. Mr. Walklato, on the ono, hand, was willing to have tho points in ...dispute; referred to tho Arbitration Court, and some of the men were willing to have a private Board of arbitration set up. The result of the second conference in the afternoon was that both sides declined private arbitration, and tho men refused to snbmit tho points to tho Court. There will be no moroj meetings until Monday morning, so in the- meantime the deadlock continues. After this morning's conference, and when Mr. Walklate had gone, a resolution .was passed by the Unionists expressing a want, of confidence in tho Court. ' There was a good deal of splitting of straws during the morning conference, and the only, outcome, apparently, was a stronger feeling than ever, aniongst tho strikers in favour of continuing "out." They were elated also at haying.'' taught Walklate moro than ■ ever ho. know 'before. or the internal condition 1 of'affairs."' ' For instance, thbro was great' glee.whqn ari'ex-inspoctor arose and mado an allegation toTt-ho meeting, and Mr. Walklate too, that "the .traffic inspector, •whom it is sought to have removed from direct contact with'the men, on ono occasion made him go to Onchunga, conceal himself, behind a truck,-/and spy on the motormen and conductors with ■ the' idea of catching them smoking. '• ; MR. WALKLATE'S STATEMENT. ' The, statement of tho manager (Mr. Walklate) was received' with' 'applause. He said he had not the slightest 'doubt he would receive; a patient hearing. (Applause.) It was not. the".first tirno he had to' meet a body of nwn, sad ha had no fear of receiving anything in the nature of abuse from a body of men who had invited him to meet them. Such /an idea had- never crossod his mind. Had it done so, ho might havo hesitated to como to meet them in .their own home, but as they saw he had dono so.' (Applauso.) This was a . very ■ important matter theyhad to talk/bout, and it was equally important that'there should not be any doubt about what he had' to. say. Coming, to' 1 tho resolution sent to him, there wero certain requests or- demands mado.- by -the. Union. He thought the best way would be to take the demands;,seriatim. ... ■ THE HERDSON CASE. " ••- The first, continued the'speaker, was that regarding conductor Herdson, that he should : bo given 'a satisfactory reason for, his dismissal.Tho reason no charge was made on the discharge of. Herdson. vras that ho did not .consider , that tho ; arrangement made with Mr./Hansen in 1906 affected , men discharged With" a week's: notice or pay in. lieu of notice, i There was a difference between dismissal 'and discharge. Dismissal was summary; but. discharge meant with notico or' salary.- Such discharge was tho ordinary, one in voguo in all trades, and no reasons, were" assign'ed.' by employers in discharging their employees in that way. He concluded and still held, that the arrangement made by Mr. Hansen only covered summary dismissals without notice. In these cases , a reason had always been given, and opportunity offered for evidence to bo produced. Ho could not see his. way to reinstate-Herdson, but,' as 'the. Union now made such a strong point of it, he would give the reason. (Applause.) ..-In .the servico of any tram company' insolenco to superior officers could not possibly be tolerated if discipline was to' be maintained, and tho interests of the public protected; : Herdson offended in that: way, henco his/discharge.. Ho was quite willing to give l a satisfactory reason for every summary dismissal, but ho; was not ,prepared to, depart from, the custom governing all, other, trades of discharging employees with a week's notice, or a week's money in lieu v of notice without assigning reasons. "AN UNREASONABLE REQUEST." He thought it would he most unreasonable to ask him to do so, as if he admitted such Xprinciple he would bo-laying his company open to defend actious for alleged slander on tho part of discharged omployees—acthat would, bo difficult to fight. Every reasonable citizen - know- that in many cases when ! an: omployeo' was unsatisfactory the only safe way was to-givo him his week's pay in' advance instead of notice; rather, than, continuo to trust him with valuablo property after he knew that ho was to be dispensed with. principle, therefore, simply must--be'applied to tho Tram Company's service, and' it pressed no more hardly upon any motorman 1 or conductor than.it did upon-any employee in any other company's service. • In cases of summary dismissal he agreed to-the employee dismissed having the right to inspect all reports made against him by'his superior officers, and had objection to the inclusion of that in the next award. If any cases arose in future where thoy wero not satisfied with a. man's-services; and where thoy wore not prepared to assign 'a reason, ho was willing to undertake to give that man the opportunity to resign; . As to the resolution " C " of the demands, Mr. Walklate said he'was ready to agreo to the sumfnary dismissal of any; employeo who was proved'a liar.- The question Of giving a, reason for discharging a man who was given a week's wages in lieu of notice, being a. legal question, should bo dealt with by tho Arbitration Court. CASE OF MR. LYSAGHT. Regarding'.tho suggested dismissal. of Mr. Lysaght, traffic manager, ho supposed thero was not a man there ; who would not bo billing to admit that.wheii any person had been found faithfully and' most reliably to 1 discharge' his duties and promote the interests of his employers for a, period of nearly 20 years, it would be tho basest kind of conduct and_ to remove him from his position during. that period; Mr. Lysaght had been in-a-responsible position, and held the respect of his employers and of a great number of Auckland citizens. Ho ccrtainly valued him as an able, trustworthy man, and ho would not be according him the British fair-play they all wished to seo dealt out, if without' a grave chargo he listened for ono moment to a demand' for his removal from office. Such a courso would only bo justified by proof ofi some serious offeneo, and as a fact nothing of the sort was alleged against him. He could not, thorefore, under any circumstances, agree to the proposal, and ho was sure when the men took time to look at the, matter calmly they would despiso him if ho did anything else.. REFERENCE TO PRIVATE BOARD SUGGESTED.

If thoy did not considor what ho had stated to bo satisfactory, ho suggested that thoy resume work in tho public interest, and ho-was prepared to submit tho whole of tho matters,' with the oxception of tho tion as to reasons upon discharge, and. about Sir. Lysaght, to the arbitration of tho Court, or to a Board of fivo gontlemen, two to bo appointed by tho men, two by tho Company, and tho four to elect an umpire. : In conclusion he thanked them heartily for the extremely pationt hearing they had givou him arid tho polito way he had been received. (Applause.},'

Mr. Rosser asked Mr. Walklato to clear up ono point. Had it not- occurred to tho general manager that the ultimatum did not ask for Mr. Lysaght's dismissal, but simply that ho should be rcn\ovcd from dircct contact with the men? (Applauso.) Mr. Walklate: Tho resolutions forwarded to mo woro cortainly worded in favour of Mr. Lysaght's removal, but that means that the Company would have to dispense with his services as traffic maaiager and dismiss him. BLACKLEG LABOUR. A Member: What are your intentions with regard to tho question of blackleg labour? Mr. Walklate: This is a very serious matter, and tho question raised is irrelevant. Wo should confine ourselves to the resolutions, and the points at issue. Mr. Rosser: The blackleg question i 3 ono of tho clausos in the ultimatum. Mr. Walklate: If that is so I will answer it. I am hero to answer the-matters put bsforo me, but is thero any suggestion of blackleg labour ? Mr. Rosser: You havo been informed that tho men will rofuso to go back to work with any blackleg labour. Sir. Walklato: Well, is there any blackleg -labour? Mr.' Rosser: There is. A Member: There aro two men who are blacklegs. - ( Mr. .Rosser: Yes, thero are two at least who refused to leave their cars, and ono has since been working at the bam. . This man has gono back on tho resolutions of tho Union. Mr. Walklate: I havo no knowledge of any man refusing to como off a car, and I havo likewiso no knowledge of any such man rccoiving employment at the barn. A Member: If it is proved that these men are blacklegs, what then ? Mr. Walklate: I do not seo that we need waste tiine discussing this question, which is' one affecting tho future. A Member:' That is true. There aro more importa-nt questions to bo sottled first. (Applauso.) Mr. Walklate: Tho Company has now instituted new arrangements whereby men will bo references, subject to certain conditions. .A man is not given a reference in the caso of summary dismissal, nor in the case of his having been with tho Company less than six months. That provision, I oonsider, should meet tho question. _ A Member: Wo know -there aro not many dismissals, but at times men have been sent off without a chanco.of explanation, or calling ■; oyidenco to Tcbut charges . brought against them; " ■ 'Mr. Walklato:. If the arrangement j'ou suggest , was made, it would interfere with business, and wo would not bo able to carry on. (Cries of "Oh!") , W|iat I do propose is to 'give a man, in th'e event of his dismissal, the chance of going into tho caso. You must placo some reliance on tho general manager of tho company. Where a man is being dismissed I am willing to allow him tlio opportunity- of giving evidence. A Voice: "Will you allow Herdson to do so? Mr. Walklate: The Herdson caso is finished, and cannot be reconsidered. After considerable argument as to reference ,of the pointslat issue to the Court or an arbitration board, Mr. Walklate said ho, was prepared to abide by the decision of tho Arbitration Court, but he was not prepared to say whother ho would allow tho question to bo tried by a self-appointed tribunal without further consideration. If tho men woro prepared to agree .with his proposals, tho servico could be resumed immediately. Tile men displayed a good measure of support to a suggestion of Mr. Rosoer's'that if a private board was sot up work ' should be resumed' pending 'its decision. , ' MR. POOLE'S ADVICE. After Mr. Walklato had withdrawn, Mr. C. H. Poolo, M.P.j.who was hailed with applause, said, that tho employers would bo called upon to enter the valley of decision ' very soon. It was hard to . appreciate the position of Mr. Walklato, who was between the 'devil'and the. deep blue sea. It would take some timo to get a firm position again. After listening for some time, ho had' been convinced that there had been some attempt to evado tho agreement como 'to on tho occasion of the last striko. Tho men must' got their wrong .righted. (Hear, hear.);: There •wore many ways of. killing, a dog, without hanging him. A man should not bo condemned until ho had been given a fair trial. At tho present time, when competition is so keen, no man should bo dismissed with a tag of suspension on his character. (Hear, hear.) Mr. Poole,know that lie .was in Queer Street, and was bejng watched, v but lie was not a time-server afraid to express an opinion. .He-thought, tho Union's demands should bo carried almost: in their entirety. (Hoar, hear.) He urged them not to rest on anything, but to make suro of their honour. ■ " Men," continued Mr. Poole, " I am riot looking for votes."

A Voico: " You will get thom, though." ■ "If I don't suit the people I am willing to stand down.* If you have an arbitration board, make sura ,you got men who will see you through, and reject men who would play you false, for there aro men in this city' oily and sweet and diplomatic, and thoy will sell you out if they get a chance." (Prolonged cheering.) ARBITRATION . NOT WANTED. Mr; Ilosscr said that ho could not with any degree of self-rospept adviso the Union to refer tho matter to a Court of Arbitration. It. was not that ho did'not; have confidence \in tho Court, but tho Court had to decide upon tho law, and not unon equity. A motion was then carried not to put the Union's case before any Court of Arbitration, and, another that the men stand by their, demands. : The afternoon conference was similar in character, the discussion ending, as stated, abortively, and the meeting being adjourned until Monday morning. . • ' . MR. TREC.EAR'S RECEPTION. The Secretary for Labour'was present at. this morning's conference, and with his usual good tact and suavity pointed out.the gravity of tho situation. He urged tho men also to havo consideration' for tho , public. - .At, the best,■, however, Mr. Trogoar can only be said to have, had a golite Jiearing. Even Mr. AValklate received- that, and. a vote of thanks for attending into the bargain. The men aro not in tho least perturbed by the news that the Arbitration Court is about to return to Auckland to deal with them. Mr. Rosser will conduct their case, backed up by a, defence committee, and ho is proparing, to fight hard. So far there has not been the remotest, sign of unseemly behaviour on tho part of the strikers. Tho polico have not. been'called upon to restore order in a singlo instance. In short, tho struggle, though grim and earnest, is decorous, despito tho fact that the laws of tho land aro being boldly flouted. 1 The Union has agreed that all men not directly coiiccrned in tho running _ of the cars be permitted to remain at their occupation provided no attempt is mado to run the ears with blackleg labour. EMPLOYERS' FEDERATION SUPPORT COMPANY. This morning Mr. C. Grosvcnor, secretary of the Auckland Provincial Employers' Association, waited upon Mr. Walklato and urged him not to deviato from tho position he had taken up in so far as it relates to tho right of employers constitutionally to discharge an employee by giving him either a week's notice or a week's pay in lieu thereof, as such a precedent, if once established, would be productive of far-reaching consequences , to employors generally. Mr. AValklate assured Mr. Grosvcnor that he had no intention of jeopardising tho employers' rights in the direction indicated, and thanked him for tho promise of tho strongest support from tho Employers' Federation. PUBLIC BECOMING IRRITATED. ' Tho poor public aro beginning to lose their humorous view of tho situation. Signs aro ovident on all sides that it was expected that tho trams would bo running this afternoon, and tho nowspaper offices havo been immdatod with inquiries by telophono and otherwise as to whon tho carß wcro to start. As a matter of fact, tho Company itself must havo thought there wai a clianco of resuming tho servico to-day, for steam was got up at tho power-houso. As I havo indicated, however, all such hopes wcro doomed to disappointment. Crowds of people havo walked out to the football ground, and every conveyance on wheels in the city is'in requisition. From a jocular frame of mind the public are rapidly passing into one of impatience, and there aro

ominous muttorings and growlings, which show that tlio men will alienato all sympathy unless some solution is arrived at boforo long. N

more about the ultimatum. On the point as to Mr. Walklato's treatmont of tlio men's ultimatum, Mr. Rossor writes to tho "Herald" as follows: —"I am directed by resolution passed at the mass meeting of tho tramway employees this, morning to corrcct a misstatement appearing in tho daily Press of yesterday that had been made by Mr. Walklato regarding his reply to tho men's ultimatum delivered by mo at .tho office of the Company yesterday morning. Tho facts are these: Yesterday morning at two minutes past nine I delivered' the ultimatum which had been adopted at tho meeting on tho previous morning and evening in tho covering letter which you havo already published. I concluded, 'Any answer may bo sent to tho Union meeting room, 28 Swan soil Street (upstairs), till 1.1.45 a.m., after which I shall bo at the despatchers' pole, Queen Street.' After leaving the letter with Mr. Clarke, tho Company's accountant, who informed mo that Mr. Walklato had not yet arrived at tho office, I wont to our Union rooms at 23'Swanson Street, and made arrangements for Mr. Cat-ley, of tho 'Worker,' to ring mo up on receipt of.any word from Mr. Walklate. I then took the'car to my office in Ponsonby to get ready for the day's events. I loft homo again by the car, and oil arrival at Swanson Street I found a Company's clerlj awaiting inc. He gave rtie Mr. Walklato's answer at 11.12 a.m. Ho had then been waiting eight minutes, and explained that ho had been up to tho Federal Hall by mistake. On looking at tho envelope I observed that tho address was. 'Mr. Rosscr's room, 23 Federal Hall.' I therefore unreservedly ■ state that tho delay in the receipt by me of tho answer to the ultimatum was the result of a bungle emanating from Mr. Walklato's own office, and I preserve the envelope for .reference. But what of -the delay? It could not havo averted tho strike, as the answer was: 'I would suggest that you send a small deputation representing the men to discuss the matter. I will be available any time about cloven a.m.' An answer liko that could not have stopped the hoisting of the red flag, as tho meeting hastily convened decided that tho time for suggesting 'small deputations, etc.', had gono by for tho past six months. -AVe havo had numerous deputations and _ they all ended in smoke. In fact, tho Union is still awaiting an answor from Mr.. Walklate to a deputation of twelve that waited on him on April: 27 to-lay important matters boforo him, and is likely to 'wait. I have been accused of deliberately arranging matters so as to delay tho receipt of the answor from the Company sinco Mr. Walklate's statement (in which lie carefully refrained from mentioning tho 'wild goose. chase' to tho Federal Hall). Therefore tho Union has directed mo to refute tho statement by addueing facts." POLITICAL LABOUR LEAGUE RESOLUTION. ' (BY TELEGRAPH. —TKSSS ASSOCIATION.) Auckland, May 23. At last night's meeting of tho. Political Labour Leaguo tho following resolution was passed:—"This tho Auckland branch of tho Political Labour Leaguo is of opinion that t-ho action of tho manager of tho Elcctric Tramways Company has been unduly harsh and arbitrary in not granting appeal against the charges, brougPlt against several employees by the inspectors of the thus driving tlio men to revolt against their .methods in dealing with their employees. This Leaguo tenders its heartiest sympathy and moral support to tho tramway employees." THE AFTERNOON CONFERENCE. [BY TELEGRAPH —MIESS ASSOCIATION.') >. Auckland, May 24. A further conference of tho men wa.s held in tho 'afternoon, which Walklate attended. Prior to his arrival tho executive of ■ tlio Union strongly recommended tho men to agreo to an arbitration board composed of two members froni the Union, two representing tho company, and a fifth appointed by tlio Government, boforo which all evidence should bo laid, tho proceedings to bo open to tho Press, and both parties to abide by the decision, whatover it might, bo, and that ss soon as tlio Board was satisfactorily appointed cars should resumb -run-

'nine. While the discussion was proceeding, and before a vote was taken 011 this proposal, Mr. AValklate arrived, and definitely stated that tho only tiling he could do was to agree to submit tho issues to tho regular Arbitration .Court. Tho meeting, however, objected to this course. As they were being charged before tho Court, thoir spokesman said, with offences involving x imprisonment, tho judge, being a judge, would give decisions on 'strict legal lines, whereas tho Union admitted that tho management had law on its sido in respect to ono important issue, but the ; Union was fighting for a moral right, namely, that men discharged with a week's wages should bo allowed to know the reason why. They entered tho service with good characters, and such discharges would imply loss of character. After desultory discussion 'tho conference ended with no decision having been arrived at. Tho men meet again on Monday, and it is more than probable that tho strikers will agree to tho executive's proposal for an arbitration board, which Mr. Walklato does not favour, and so there is no sign of a settlement of the trouble. ,