UNIVERSITY SENATE.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 109, 31 January 1908, Page 4

UNIVERSITY SENATE.

MODERN METHODS. A COMMITTEE OF INVESTIGATION. LAW STUDENTS' FEES. ~' ROMAN , CATHOLIC 5 BEQUEST ACCEPTED.;;. The "University Senate adopted yesterday, • after a short discussion, Mr.' Von Haast's motion appoint'nicrii r bf^a mitteo to consider and report upon Dr. Starr Jordan's recommendations and suggestions in the Chancellor's 'report, and tho general revision of tho New Zealand University system, in order to bring it into lino with tho most advanced systems in other countries. Mr. Baume's motion to reduce tho foo for tho,Bachelor of Laws degreo was defeated after a sharp discussion. It was decided, after much argument on tho question, of_. principle;':to actep# tfjth thaais tho bequest of tho lato Mr.'O'Siillivan ■ the .purpose. of providing scholarships,-for- ' R-omnu Catholic, jmcdical.- -/.students. Wo . Understand that the -estimated value of the '■bequest is close' en :'-£5D00.: 3Th«• Wef a&ion nnl] not como to tho University for some years, as three persons have an interest in it hrst. r- . v

MODERN UNIVERSITY DEVELOPMENTS,

A W TAKEN '• ''Haartimorediaf?.' airafc '-a ;]&*k Committee, consisting .of Baume, Professor F. D. Brown, Professor J. Macmillan tttrown, tho' Rev. A. Cameron, Professor .Look,•'the. Jinv. W. ..A. 'Evans;"'-Professor ■Shand, tho Chancellor (ex t officio), and tho flnover, bo appointed to consider and report /on Dr. Starr Jordan's suggestions, the other suggestions contained in tho Chancellor's re,, port, Mr. Cameron's motion, tho co-ordina-tion of tho" UmWrsity/ldelgrWsy 'and the revision of tho Ui)iycrsi ty.system so.as.t.p brjng the University cdijcafion of New Zcaland'i'nto lino with modern'doveloprnfints 'in'the lead--IUS, Universities qf ..Europe ■ and America." _ Tho mover said'that ho had b'ec.n a good . deal .scoffed,at-for putting this motion 011 the order-paper, and it had'been .attlibutcd to his youth and inespcrience. that if. the committeo represented; onlv°ono University district tho Senate rf wbuld' : ta')vo 110 1 notice of its ;aml! if: ifojepresented all of .them it wMild' h ncyef meet. Several bthpr most importSnt/snhjcots.-^Mw- ; ever, had, relcrrßdSf to / ; mittpes.'.ohd he-did not belief tjntfthq '£»$• ate would -neglect this mi'ttfe'Kflts objoct m .bringing forward, the motion-,'tvaE:'nUVro-vohitlonary, .but, quits tho-iPy ersc;. ■ Ho thought that it -would allow all thc'roformers and revolutionaries to let oil .straiii during the recess,■ and-prevent someone throwing a bomb into their midst at tho next "meeting of tuo Senate._ The committeo contained a lair consery'atives as well as of tho r6voludoij.nncs;^Ho m iifas : 'as,strong]v opposed as anyone to; Americanising tho University root;;and branch, but they should he ready to consider features of any. other Universities .that -were worthy of - consideration. ■ A committeo might go through the leading . features of. some ■of the great Universities of. the world, tabulate tho result- of their researches, and bring before, the Rcccss Committeo /s-.aJ .wh.610 theviijc«F'iiiijjo'rtaht features ox other Universities which might have I application to New Zealand needs. The Recess Committeo could then report to tho oeiiate. A largo number of important questions iip incidentally, which Yl/oi' henate ha<l .had to:,deal,with-,iji?the midst of its -ivork, and it''would Bo.' iniicli better if tlicM; questions were directlv-dealt ! with-.bv-'" n ilecess Committee, whifch should a report to tho Senate. Even if"the aid not adopt a single recommendation of tho cnmm.ttoe, valuables information - would bo a.Uorded which would assist them to decide • 00 questions .of .change when .they camo un. I rpre'ssor J. E'i -Brown, 'invseconding'.the motion said that the mass of detail work before the Senate made,'it Very difficult for body to discuss lirge questions- satisfactorily. \ rry great changes had come alxnit in. ideas as to what a modern Universitv curriculum should comprise. The Now Zealand curriculum was drawn up a good,many years ».go, and though thero-had been modifications since several important English Universities had. been started in tho. inten-al, to suit tho-' needs of much the same class of students as--0 had here, and thero were considerable differences between our ideas and theirs. -He thougjit.'.it, .would bo wise for; •' b^.ad ;§ e T a . , ,. ; -Ti>'-;6?, Iwhat" wasbeing dono in tho larger, centres,. oven .if- it 2 adopt, any. recommendation'. ' "If: the henate- refused 'to'apooint.'the committ'eo,' itopen to' those who were moving in' tji 0 • hHn!, 4i ' l , , rc P aro Proposals private!v, and bring them before tho Senato. Motion was . adopted unanimouslv. ■

LAW STUDENTS' FEES. ' f M - r> f moved: "That 01 --f 3 JK- h , e c'wi-god in future for tlio nor.cVt/ a 0f -' X;,lr ' n Tho fcu mou< seme!., taxed m ..regard to fees than any others in llio University. Tho B.A. decree, for which thn fbo was' on I v £2 is was "l--R 1 ' 5 aT" C ' P™ £ " sio^l: "degree hadfoT"'!'* i ■■ af tor ho ?-2n Ci' ° -diploma nad to.pay.£ls-or bart T ld 'l* n, ) (!t,so as ' a solicitor or f 'f I? '.WttftoMover tionl if fl r O - elltl . r , B cosfc , of tho exllH 'iiia- I tions of the University. As a prinoiplo he who n c degrees'fhould ijj'-given to tho men „ made o? ' tho t ar ?] ot . I he

Dr. Fitchett -seconded tho iMrcfeji tw r 'fi " •>? ask ? lor . ed > as an'.-juneiiilmoiit, that tho matter should bo tlio feomiVM^ mt , tcc -, , E ° though'* that tho fee might bo'reduced to £5 ss, rffiich Sould inom- pith thoVofetes o other Universities than £3 ment° ;^ Illoron s«o^§i't^mendP™? tho dnWinn" (? a "riv'" a " : ? bt j c ' ,llurn tho reell i-' U,B(V . H»d, moved for a law fro" f o P ' r ] Vho ,re i^as.tlui' money to come from.-' He did not know that there had been I, General outcry for, a reduction. J lie Chancellor said that the degree fees At I 6"" ■ t T-' _ JX - n(,str . v - a'"! Commerce?! which were £, and..in Mcdicine.,which ; were Mraiallv £.10 Ids., ] ]a d equal claim to be • reduced. Tho .Senate hart" "been able "Mv-\ great -care, to accumulate, certain.funds,' 'ii'iSl now apparently, they were to be ail.dissipaton::'. • : ' ■ •••;: Professor J. Jlr.cmillan Brown opposed the motion. Ho would not ho against referring the question to the Finance -Committee* (Laughter.) ;■ v - ■" 1 ■•'J - - I rofe.isor Shand said that quite recently tlio university had been -incurring a verv serious loss on law esaminalions, .»nd it .was very, doubtful if they made-any profit 'now!' -\r-i - Chancellor- swd . .that,/./.apart from Matriculation the University. examinationswere conducted at a financial loss. itir. Von Haast then withdrew his amendment. .;- Mr. Bauine, n3 a final argument, quoted JJr. ,jtarr Jordan as saying that the taxation o. university students was tho most'oppressive form of all taxation. The motion was lost. , r SECTARIAN SCHOLARSHIPS.

A QUESTION OF PRINCIPLE. • In regard to the bequest mado by Mr; O'Sullivan, of Pleasant Point, for a schoiaf-' Bliip for Roman Catholic Medical students, 1 the following motions, of which notico had been given, were considered^:'—... ; Motion of tho 1 Chancellor:—l. "That the Senate expresses its gratification at the generous benefaction which Mi". O'Sullivan has boqueathfd for educational! purposes." ■ 2. "That it would' bo oontrary to precedent and not in accordance with the spirit or intention of our ■ University Constitution, as,explained in ; its Act and Charters, for tho University ' to administer such a trust." "That t.lic trust should, in the opinion. of the

| Senate be . transferred to the Public ■1 -Trustee-to administer." 4. "That so far ; as, exaniinatiqns,.-(>tc,,,.',are concerned, the ,' University wijl to assist tho : Public 'lrustdd'/Cin' iidmijiistcring the : Trust." , -;Cr ■ .- t l Mijtiqn, of Dr. Titchctt: —1. "That the 'WP Jjlt."' O'Snllivnn's bequest .for 11 • ScnolarMlip .'Fund for Medical Students ; wfcih'tt-class accepted with .Uiaofei, .ftilji'iUie' JiOi«» that it may be tho ' forerunner of many benefactions from : public-spirited' citizens for the advance- ; jnflntTijl'rj.sound'.; learning through',' tho j medium of tho University of New Zoal- , and." «. "That in overy case where, as ' here, the University receives a benefaci is not oiien to students peii- • orally, but is ' Confined to a specifiod class, ;money ;be -kept distinct from. i tho University fluids, and for that purj noso be placcdh'ft 'tlit'i'handK of tho Public .' Trustee.'' 3lr. Cohen proposed that this question should be discussed in committee. DK Fit'cheW'thought that that would give a colour to .t)irrmatter- which they desired to 'avoid. '' V Mr. Cohen did not press the proposal. . , . ~ OPPOSING VIEWS. : Tho Chancellor said that in his opinion tho Sen ato must always-ljeep in view that it was a purely body, and to introduce any•thing that! tended 'tb sootarian discussion would be injurious to-tho University. He .;tiafc-(,thcyi',fihoijld. express their grati-fit^tiQn,,nt:t-h()'bequest, and hand it over to //T.hey should give the Puhlip...-Tnstfe r ,'.'every' help in administering the 'tu'fst, b'll't' shbulfl.'iiot tako the responsibility themselves? was the.view which -tho University had,.always taken .11 "lie past. I ' Mr. Colieii seconded the Chancellor's iuo-1

tion pro forma.," ■ Dr."' Fit<Jiett'," v deinra L "-lhat thero was any similarity of this scholar•siiip and that.of the Gammack scholarship, which had-been' I 'qno'ted as a .precedent to guide tho Senate. .jTboMattcr was a scholarship for Canterbury students, and it was right it should be handed over 't6 ; -' ; th"pi€!antM-b.iiry University Coljego. In the present case -ho"thought the University had. the right ■to""administfer the tnist. Suppose a left, £10,000 for left £10,000 for scholarships '.foci New! Zealand-horn, students, would tliey lie justified in refusing those bequosts» r; jiothing in the nsago ofs;..thp"'E'n'giislr''Uiiivei'sitics to justify such a ooh'tcntion,..and..there was nothing in the Act of Charter of the New Zealand University to prevent them taking this bequest. The statute which forbado the imposition of compulsory religious tests was not meant to-.fei'pr jtfl./suclii.-a, case as this. The Homo Universities imposed' 110 religious tests, -yefc bencfactiqns of, this kind wore freely accepted -by them, aiid satisfactorily administered. They would'tako .1 declaration from a Catholic, and they niigl.it ii'ave'f\to..,aslj ! jtbr .some collateral evidence, but, that would not amount to a religious test fivthii; tile, meaning of the Act. Tho regulation relating to such test was only ~,mealita lit ,to apply to' the work of Ihe • University'.as .a whbie,' and not to private bequestsl-, ','Tliera .wouUl l-'bo 110 sectarian tinctiiro in their teaching,' and, if they allowed a Catholic to givo a scholarship for Catholics, that;, plight-stir., up a Presbyterian to give a scholarship for' Presbyterians, and an Anglican one for Anglicans, and so 011. .-' v '-'^aG^TiSD , ' ' 3lry A'im- Haas'fc Submitted that the Senate must' consider not only this particular case, hut the principle on which they wero to act in future. He thought that with a view to the establishment; of. some fixed principles of dealing with benefactions to the University in favour of restricted classes of students, whether such restriction bo as to religion, geographical area, or otherwise, theymight make some such regulation nk the following:—(1.) That, having regard to

the small number of benefactions for University cducation-.in .Np\v Zealand, the Senate, while to all students without distinction, should welcpnio and do nothing to discourage benefactions in favour of a particular class. (2.) That the Senate shoaldi'tmdertake and confine itself to carrying out the educational requirements ofa,purely. secular nature necessary to give'gffect'fo'such benefactions. (3.) : That thcj.nSeiTsto: sho.nld. leave the administhe trusts in connection with such bonefaSSbhs*-'-'and '■ the ascertainment- of whether tho candidates fulfill the conditions, other than educational, prescribed by the donors of tho benefaction, (o some trusteo other .jUian-- tho,, University, if possible, the Pulinc "Trustee, 'in every instance. : The Chancellor said that this was tho same idea as his own. .Mr. "Von ll.vast observed that in practice there was not much difference between Dr. Fitchctt'.a. motion and, the Chancellor's. Dr. Fitchctt: Except that the Chancellor refuses the bequest, and I accept it. WHAT'IS A ItELIGIOUS TEST? Mr. Von Haast said~it was not a question of law so much as of the spirit/ of the University. Tho statuto stated that it was not lawful for then to impose any religious test. In 'tbi^ca^'Hio.'religious test was mado by theWdorior, ..of _ tho but tho Univftraty would; Jiavo 'to frame a condition thativtho.•-successful candidate must ho a member of a certain-faith. If they accepted this bequest they would probably get others for-ihembers' of''other-Churches, 'and in each casp', tbby; would have'-to decide whether the candidattf'wiis a meriitier of such Church or not*: /rit'o-'conltl' liM dodge that responsibility. Jf there'was"a dispnto between the candidate and the head of his Church, ho would sue. for the money, and they would have to go to law about it. Questions of religion might be brought up before tho Senate to > afljudiiialK upon, and that was the last thing that they all desired. Again, the UmversityVogo wire jiist the time wlien a man's viejvs,. beeajne modified, and ho was most likely to pass from ono faith tdanother, amPmight,,, perhaps, find it very difficult to say. himself what his religious faith was. Also :it often happened that a,,man holding heterodox views on some subjects elaimcd still to belong to a cortain Church, which would 'not acknowledge Oifnf.'js a member. Thero was no question' scholarship going by tho board. .altogether, it was only a, question of a change''of trustees and tho University could >I)6'.Sfl«ed from tho invidious task of sayjng ~jvhafc„a candidate's religion was, and from'tho risk of religious strife and discussion.

i.■<>k'Mß-.oJTOLE/ -DERIDES " BOGYS." 'Tlio Horn X "A.'. Tele said he did not suppose that, this money would fall into the coffers either of the Senate or of tho Public Trustee for the next 15 yours. It was only payable at the end of three, lives, those of a grandmother,, mother, and child, hut the principle was. now -brought under their immediate observance, and that- was a most important 'tiii'ng to consider. He thought that thpytshrti'ild accept this donation simplieitor. ■ Hi?-would be in favour of adopting merely the first part of the Chancellor's motion, as follows:—"That the Senate expresses its gratification at tho generous benefaction which "Mr. O'Sulllvan has bequeathed for education purposes," with tho addition, "and that such benefaction, be gratefully accepted by, the Senate." IE lie wero compelled to accept Dr. Fitchett's motion, he would still lie in- favour.-of-iiddingrto it the Chancellor's first' 'clause, which' lie thought was a very proper 'pronouncement to make. Ho preferred tho latter part of Dr. Fitchett's motion to tho latter part of the Chancellor's, because tho .Chancellor, so to spenk, absolutely slammed tho ijoor on benefactions of this kind: He thought that the University should bo universal, that it should be inclusive', not exclusive, and his feeling was, jet thorn all come, Socialists, Freethinkers, or whatever they wore, provided that there was no .interference with the work of the. University ns such. The terrible dread of secular strife was a mere bogy. There would bo no difficulty as to whether tlio man was a Catholic.or not. It would simply be a question of whether he had (lie reputation of belonging to.the Roman Catholic Church. They 'would not need to inquire further into his...faith. : The 'whole of the statute .was an bnotnaly..There was : no test here whatever. The, ptatute had been admitted, no doubt, to prevent a recurrence of those intolerant nets that had happened centuries ago, hut it only meant that there should bo no religious tost against entering the Uiiiversitv, or against taking a degree. It was strange that thisz-bequcst should be coincident with the lamentations of the Chancellor's address concerning lack--of benefactions, and now

that this, offer was'spontaneously made, they said tlmt they couVI not accept it. It was a most gratifying flhiug to sco a man who was perhaps giving the savings of his life to his co-religionists, who In; knew had made many sacrifices for ctmscicnco' sake, anil who showed cnnfidena) in tlin 'University in handing this money to ,them' unqualifiedly, except for tho onnditicin. that t'liey must give it to the students of his faith". And. tho Senato said that they iipuld not do it, yet at the same time they lvoro willing to do' it, vicariously, by a side track, by handing out the money to the Public Truster!! They might say, if they liked,, tljat jjeoplo would pretend to bo Catholics for the sake of getting this schohtrship, jusv, as, when he became Minister of Justice, ho found that a great number of prisoners in tho gaols 'had suddenly become Catholics. But ho felt sura that thero would be 110 difficulty. The Melbourne University had accepted n scholarship for th b' sors and daughters of commercial travellers, and the University of Adelaide a French scholarship confined to candidates neither of whese parents was French: Theso Wore both, scholarships for classes. He would very seriously' submit that their should pause bctforo declining tho bequest in this way. Ho did not think that thero would b'o tho slightest, friction or bother about tho administration of the scholnrahip. BEQUEST ACCEPTED. ■ The Chancellor, replying to a question' of Mr. Hogbeii, said that if the Ixxjuest was accepted it was perfectly plain 'that' tho Senate would bans to say whether a candidate was a Catlwlic. • i Sir. Bau'mo saj.v. nossiblo legal difficulties ahead, and suggested that, before-tho Senato passed a resolution, it should got the opinion of tho Court of Appeal as to whether it, could administer ; tlio trust in accordance with the Statute, which forbids compulsory religious tests. •Tho Chancellor said that ho would put to the Senate the fust clause of the motion of which no had given notice, with the.addition suggested by Mr. Tole. Dr. Fitchett said tlint if tho .motion was carried in' that form, lie would not move tho motion standing in his name. Tho Chancellor's amended motion was carried as follows"That tho Sonato oppresses its gratification at tho generous benefaction which Mr. O'Sullivaii has bequeathed for educational purposes, and that the same be accepted with thanks." BO WEN PRIZE. . The following was approved ris the subject of the Bowcn Essay Prize for WOO: —"The probable futuro of tho Pacific, considered in regard to the destiny of tho Australasian Colonies." TOO LATE. Tho Chancellor read the following telegram which ho had received from Dr. Burnett, Chairman of the Examinations Board: "Urge rc-open question special examination in six months for deserving candidates failed in final medical professional. Very strong arguments in fayour. Objection on score of expense unfair and fallacious. Considered this reform more urgently needed than medical scholarship. Strong fooling aroused." ' The Chancellor said tlmt it was not in order to bring a matter before the Sonato in that way,' and the subject , could not bo dealt with again. , No action was taken. , EXAMINERS AND AD EUNDEM COMMITTEE. Tho report of tho November Examinors and Ad Eundem Coinmitteo recommended that , tho following bo asked to act as examiners:— In Engineering Drawing—G. P. Williams, 8.A., A.l.C.E.,'Christchureh.

In Accounting—A. T. Clarke, A.C.A.In Chemistry—Professor R. Mcldola, F. 11.5., Finnsbury Technical College, London; Professor W. H. Perkin, Ph.D., F:R.S., University of Manchester; Professor James Walker, D.Sc., Ph.D., F.R.S., TJnivorsity College, Dundeo. In Mental Sciences-Professor (1. S. Mackenzie, M.A., Cardiff University College; Professor J-> H; Muirhead, M.A., LL.j;., University of Birmingham; Professor James Ward, M.A., Trinity College, Cambridge. In Mechanical Engineering—Professor I). S. Capper, King's College, London; Professor F. W. Burstall, Al.Sc., M.lnst.C.E., Birmingham; 'Professor S.' Djinkerly, f).Sc.,' M.lnst.C.E., Greenwich. ' f ' / ' In. Electrical Engineering—Professor W, Ays ton, P.U.S., Central Technical College, London; ' Professor Sylvanus Thompson, D.Sc., F.R.S., London; Caius-Wilson, M.A., •11 Old Queen Street, Westminster. In Metallurgy and Assaying—Professor, Henry Lewis, College of Science, Newcastle-on-Tyne; Kirko Rose, D.Sc., Master of Royal Mint; Professor T. Turner, M.Sc., A.It.S.M., University. of Birmingham., In iVl.ino and Land Surveying—T. Humphreys, New Zealand Surveyor-General. .. . Tho committoo further. recommended(l) That William Chisholm Wilson M'Dowoll, a Doctor of Medicine of tho University :of Edinburgh, bo admitted ad eundem to the degreo of Doctor of Medicinc in the University of Noiv Zealand; (2) that Archie James Coombes, a Bacholor of Arts of tho University of Sydney, be admitted ad eundem to the degreo of Bacholor of Arts in tho University of New Zealand; (3) that the request of a graduate of St. David's College, Lampeter, for admission ad eundem, be not entertained. The report was adopted.