PARLIAMENT HOUSE.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 70, 16 December 1907, Page 7

PARLIAMENT HOUSE.

NEXTfSESSION AND AFTER,

AN (INTERVIEW WITH THE PREMIER.

EXPENDITURE OF £100,000 TO £150,000,

THREE GREAT UNDERTAKINGS. On arjiviiig from tiro south yesterday morniiTg tho-Premier drovostraight from the 'Steamers' to' Street and- made a cursory examination/of tho' remains of the Parliamentary Buildings. • '.. ; SpeaMng to a Dominion reporter later in tho day, Sir Joseph Ward said that while it was -self-evident that' all tho old portions of ■the buildings would-require to be replaced, thero woi-p portions that could'be worked into ja' new-building; 'But having regard to the 'extensive -area-tbat-waa-needed-for the proipqr nccommodatiou:pf;botb Houses of l'arliament in :■ a building,-as -must now bo the case, of stbnb'jvbrifcVor.. reinforced concrete, ho thought "that "from" £100;000 to £160,000 •would- have-to -be -spunt-mul- that without -any attempt to. provide a palatial structure, but Bimply to'meet the requirements' in a common sonse;;; practical way. ' Ho had already .suggested the advisab'ility .of erects ing now Parliamentary Buildings on the prefe'e'nt" G6w)rh'mbht : Housb' site,' and it. Was his -opinion_thivt-.the-4dea-wae-w«ll-iveFth carotully considering before any 1 action' was taken. i

NO IMMEDIATE HURRY. '.'.> "Thero;is no immediate liiirfy," continued tho, Premier,' , -' to" cbm'o to" any conchi'sion on this point, and I wish-it to ho calmly and dispassionately .discussed That-is. why I have brought .forward.,the; suggestion at this stago. lljq "presont large' woqden Popa'rtmontal Buildings "on Lambfon.Qli'ay'aro now noarly forty'.years old; , and'.l'conbUido, from inform.ati6n"fiirnls.hed to: me,, that it will be necessary to" practically rebuild thorn before .'"O.'iLinoro years have plapsed._ There is also tho possibility of a destructive firo thoro to bn kept .in'lview. The all-important quosA*? n '.°f• Providing,fpr-M'o proppr.Jiousing and control.of bpth the public records and the .offioinl- staff of: the- country, ..-ft. the.: seat of iiovernniont naturally presents- itself at this time, and I think it.might bn advantageous to commonce a policy, of erecting in poparato blocks and jh lasting nihtqrials,.;'on the site or the' Parliamentary. Buildings, , ,-n" series of buildings for tho Departments which, are now Accommodated ..in .the big .wooden-building. It should ho .done by a gradual process. . •

...,. ~ . •" You see," the Premier werit on,* "there arc these three undertakings linked together: First, >now' Parliamentary, Buildings; second, -new Departmental Buildings; and, third, a now, Government House: 1 believe it would bd practicable to cut'up the site'of tho Departmental Buildkigs into sections for business purposes, and lease those to tho public, "aud 1 /believe...that'we could-obfain .'in this .way, a', sumciont income by way of rentals to pay interest and sinking.fund'on nov/ Parliamentary Buildings, now public-offices; and a new residence for the Governor. I havo mado a rough estimate, and I think the necessary loan could-be repaid'-in thirty years. It is not a question'for-hasty and one-sided conchisions,.iind:'.l think that those who have already-'adversely critioisod my suggestion will find that it is"worthy of careful investi'Katibn.'; It' is most desirable to havo' an area for .the new Parliamentary Buildings sumcjently large,to enable.extensions to be mado within the next fifty years,, so as to meet the requirements of this growing country. Wo should take a lesson from the Old Land. The House , of Commons has to sit in a hall that is not largo enough to seat all its f members', and the Site, ..does l not permit of enlarging.the building. It will, of course, bo many years before the growth of population warrants an increase in. tho number of .members of Parliament, but such a con-tingency-may.urise'in'timosto come. So I say-that, after making temporary' provision for tho holdihp'of tho next session of Parlia"ment, we should carefully go into this question'from the standpoint of the needs of "to-day'and the needs of the future." The .Premier , , added that Mount Cook, thbugh; a..magnificent site, : would bo impracticAbjo, because, it,was necessary for Parliament to bo in proximity to the Departmental . Buildings and' the' Printing Office, which was so essential to the work of the .Legislature. Parliament would be consulted about the. whole .-question next session, and in tho meantime Cabinet would decide where the session-of 1907 should bo held.

HOUSE. 1 With regard "to-the new residence for the Governor, Premier said he had-already stiggested a site at'tlio Botanical Gardens. -.Another idea was Mount View, a beautiful site., Tho asylum there ought to bo removed into'-tho, country. ..The present Government' House was a good : building, but its position enabled' hundreds' of people to overlook the premises, nnd, ; though.His Excellency had not complained of this, it must be regarded ns It would, • howovor, bo a splondid site for Parlisniont, as it was surrounded by four streets forming i a., squaro, /and access by vehicles and pedestrians could be obtained on every eido, in contrast to the present building, which had only one door wlioro a' carriage could bt drawn up.

; THE INSURANCE QUESTION. .;)■ The qupstion of insurance of Gorernraent property having- been raised, the Premier said that the; suggestions that • had been made were based on a misconception of tho position. - - Tho matter might be put in a nutshell,.' If the Government i paid premiums to. insuro all its buildings throughout the Dominion, the cost would bo greater tlian what would'be lost if two , or three public buildings wore burnt down evoryycar. Looking at it from the public point of view,' aud not from the insurance, point of view, tfio course Unit was being followed wns the, right on,e. If tho ..Government ran its own special' irieliranoe "- fuiul for its own buildings, as had , boon suggested, that. would not amount .to much more than a matter of book entries. The Government had really not been .particularly unfortunate in' the -matter of fires. This wasj ho thought, the first big ono,, and tho-precautions that wore taken reduced "the risk of firos 'at tho various structures • belonging to- the "country to a minimum*. : • ■ .••■■■

MR. F. M. D. FISHER INTERVIEWED

' Mr. FfM. D: Fisher;'Ml'.rdid not approve of tho Premier's suggestion to erect tbo now Parliamentary Buildings on tlio Government Houso sito. Ho admitted that tho site, which was. of far greater valuo than most people was quite unsuitable for a Vice-Regal residence, button tho othor hand, he saw no necessity for'removing thc t .Parliament Uonsc; from its proSent'site, • where', ho cohsidoroci, thoro was , plenty-,of space for any buildings thb Dominion would require for legislative purposes, for many years to conio. Ho was sure thatany project like tho Duncdin railway station would bo strongly opposed-in the House, especially" by tlio country members, and in viow oE.tiio .fall in.wool., ' ' regard to, next, sossion, ho thought JJollamy's could bo fitted up fo.r the Houso iof. Representatives,' and the largo upper room, of,.tho. Library for the Legislativo Uouiicil. Mombors could do without a Bellamy's.'prbporly so balled. ' They would baro to do without other tilings, such as tlio card-room, and they would have to sit on chairs, instead of their oomfortablo padded bonches. There was no doubt the session WoUld bo a short one. Bomo members thought tho House should 'moot in March- to pass Supply, and then suspend the Triennial Act nnd adjourn until , 1909. In support of this viow, it was urged that a sossion,could only bo hold next year at tbo cost of groat inconvenience; and that it would not bo fair to tho Government to go to tho country without having another sossion. Mr. Fishor stated that ho did not approve of this suggestion. When tho now houses were built, he thought it might bo a good idea to have no public gallories, as this would remove ono great temptation to loquacity, ' , Ho bettered the Premier would be weU

advised'to call ■members together^-and' ask them to. express their-views as - to'what was best to be done. .

HON,T. K.MACDONALD'S OPINION. Interviewed on his return from the south yesterday, the Hon. T. K. Macdonaldj M.L.C.,.'stated,that he heartily supported the proposal to erect tho new Parliamentary: Buildings on Government House site. "In lnvercargill," remarked Mr. Mac- ' donald, " thenows of the firo caused a feeling not only of surprise, but also of extreme regrot. At the Southland A. and P. Show, which was attended' by crowds of country residents and townspeople, it : was the; prin- , cipal topic of conversation. Personally, tho only regret I feel is'on account of the'loss •'■■ of records and the'historicarassociations cbn- ■'' . nocted with tho old building. The structure was poorly ventilated, and - the., .drainage , system was also defective I am siiro that many of the legislators whose deaths have. occurred during the past ten years would have been alivo'to-day if they had never entered Parb'anient. The atmosphere in. both ChamborS was microbe-laden, and to,remain in the building any length of .time at a stretch was to court illness. .Seeing that the buildings were in' that condition their _ de- '; . struction l|y fire is, from that point of view, not greatly to be regretted. .....' ' . , . "The suggestion made by Sir Joseph Ward that the new Parliamentary Buildings should be erected on.the block on which Government . House now stands is, to my mind, an .admirable'one: Tho'proposed site is one of the finest 'in; tho city .of .Wellington. fact . that jt has, frontages, to .four,,main streets. ; ' makes it an ideal site. 'One great;, advantage would'be'that trie risk of it'being destroyed as a.result of fire , .spreading from any building in tho vicinity is infinitesimal. . . ; • . "In my opinion, competitive designs for a new structure shoiild.be invited at'the earliest .ppssible moment. I am not a ..believer in so important a work being undertaken at the Colonial .'Architect's offico? The. new building would have to' ho fire-proof, and, as far as possible, oarthquake-proof. It should reflect to the outside world ...the. im-: portatace of the Dominion in the same .way, as. the House oF Parliament in, Canada emphasises to. visitor, "as wellasto every . citizen, the enormous resources of that country. It is impossible to travel, through New Zealand without feeling that numbers of the, public buildings, particularly the smaller post and telegraph offices, are miserable failures from an architectural , point of view, owing to their sameness. I say this, Having due regard to the care, and ability, of- the Colonial Architect. The' Government should not," in s;a;K)iqaje uiojj suSisap 'uoraido A'ni residing outside tho Dominion, as I believe a building can be designed in\ New Zealand which will reflect honour on the country and credit,on the desiners. ~ . ->. ~,,,', : ; "It may now be asked, what can be done with.Government House? ' That building is a very, old structure, having many .of,,the / 'drawbacks -attendant on wooden residences . which have been in existence for forty years. , I remember when it was being erected, and "' lam satisfied that it has long since outlived its usefulness. Sir Joseph Ward's suggestion as to where the new Government House should be',built, viz.,. on ,a high portion of the Botanical Gardens, is the best that is likely to be made. . "When the new-Parliamentary Buildings are erected,,the- brick portion of the old structure, including'that portion which'is now used for'the purposes of a library might ■> be made tho nucleus of permanent Govern- ) ment Departmental! Buildings,,in lieu of tlie present structure on. Lambton; Quay. ..The. new, offices, could, be; erected as necessity arose, having in view always the fact that the present offices are eminently unsafe. If • a fire took place in them the loss of records and historical documents would be so enormous as to constitute a national, disaster. Parliament House' site would he an admirable one for permanent? Government Buildings. On ', a question of this kind, the Government will, I am sure, face the position in no narrow' or mean spirit, and , the country will support them. It bo well,if the probable requirements of, , say,' from 100 to 200 years, ahead'were provided ,fo*rl ■We will not.be; building -for to-day, ; .but for the future." ;Nb; greater mistake can be made than that of erecting a building which will provide for the ■.■ needs of but a few years heiice. Towards the .cost of this building posterity will,"I feel, sure,-pay its. fair, share without grumbling. Again I, say that the' new Parliamentary Buildings should reflect the' high, position /which New Zealand:'; has. attained in the,. Empire." • . '. '■ ; .' : .. ~ .'.

-:.■.•■: ■ ■ ' ■ , ■ ■■■■ THE MAYOR'S VIEWS; "I can't see what arguments can be ad-. vanced in favour of the proposal to erect the new Parliamentary Buildings on Govern--ment'House site," observed the Maydr (Mr. T. W. Hislop) in , the courseofa chat'with' a Dominion representative." Continuin'g, Mr. , Hislop said that the present eite was high and central; in fact, an ideal one. Without"! doubt/ the proposed site was aii equally good, one, but, so far, it had,not been shbwn'that it would be advantageous to make the. chango suggested. The, undamaged portion of the old Parliamentary Building was a permanent structure, and he did not know to what other purposejt..could be put, unless, it were presented to the city as the nucleus of the' proposed riew-'piiblic library. He was not aware that the' Parliamentary Building site was required for any'other purpose, and, as far as , he, knew, it had' never been suggested that 'the Buildings wouldhavo been better located on the proposed site, or on any other site. .'ln the. event of the proposal being adopted, Government, House, which was an old building, would have to be demolished., Ho could not think of any. other site for Government House in or within>reasonable distance of the city. "In my opinion," the Mayor'continned, "it is proposed to spend far too much money in re-building Parliameut House. Only the probable requirements of, say, the. noxt thirty or forty years should be provided, for. The new Buildings'should be built in hrick or other fire-resisting material, and .equipped with the latest -fire-pre-vention system. The old building would have been large-enough, for a great many years. .Nowadays, the tendency is to be too exacting. Seeing that money is so badly: needed to provide roads, etc., in'the back- \ blocks, it would,. I consider, not be. right; to expend-anything like-as much money as has.. been suggested on the new buildings'."-

"HIDEOUS EXTRAYACANGE." , Mr. William Fraser, M.P., who has just returned to Wellington, was seen by , a Domimon representative on Saturday, anent the Premier's suggestion to use the, GovernInent House site for the new Parliamentary: ' Buildings.. - • ■ > . .-., > "I am not at all surprised to hoar it;' ! said he, "it appears that nothing is too wild. Butyl think.it would be a..piece .of hideous extravagance. The present site is a magnificent one; iri'close' proximityto .the Government and. Printing Office.! Buildings'.'. The-place ouly needs rebuilding on modern lines on -the burned side to make it fit for the business of Parliament." ,

' tyR.•'BARBER'S SUGGESTION. Mr. W.H. P. Barber;.M.P. for Newtowri,' has suggested that the now . Parliamentary; Buildings' should be , situated on the Mount Cook site*: Tliis suggestion, has been criticised by many as being quite out of the question- Firstly, it is far removed from all the. other. Government, offices, and "it is highly essential that that should- not be. The site is crowned with a huge, elongated brick, building, with walls of immense thickness, that, is" suitable fo rwhat it was .bunt for—-a prison—and vory little ' else, though it is at boing .iised/as a. barracks.. It is, furthermore, a long way from .the railway stations, wharves, and General Post Office, and, though a magnificent site for a pubiic building,, cannot be considered as in \auy way an ideal one for Parliamentary Buildings.

UNDERSECRETARY FOR PUBLIC WORKS. In connection with tho suggestion to rebuild the Parliamentary Buildings on the Governmont Honso site, Mr. H. J. H-. Blow, Under-Socretary for Public Works, states that as tho Governor's residence is nearly forty years old, and built |of. wood, it cannot fast a groat while longor in any case. Tho building is very .badly situated for its purpose, as it. was overlooked from ■the Parliamentary. Buildings, and will be much more overlooked from them if they

are re-built; old.-site. It is not gen-erally-thought advisablo to linvo the Governor's residence in the centro of a crowded city. In Sydney, for example, the building is right out of the town. Tho situation •of tlie- local Government House must, prove', more and ~more unsuitable, as the city grows, but it. is not so easy to say ■ where lelsetliPr residence should be placed. Strong arguments might he advanced in favour, of, a suburban site.

SUGGESTION BY MR. T. WIIFORD. Mr.' T. Wilford/M.P,, suggests that, should it ho decided to'build.tho new Parliament Buildings whore'Hlie Governor's residence now stands, a suitable site for tho 'vice-regal residence would"bo Bollevue Gar'deris, at the Eutt. It.'is Understood that Lord Plunket is very partial to this locality.

; VIEWS OF A COCJNYRY MEMBER. ~ (BT ; TELEGRAPH —SrECIAL CORRESPONDENT.) Masterton, Decßmber 14. Interviewed by a Dominion representative on Sir J. Ward's suggestion that now Parlianientary Buildings should be built to meet exigencies, .of ".the next, two hundred years on: tho-present Government House grounds, said .that no doubt the idea was 'a' fine'.o'he,' biit'he was afraid that Npw Zealand was hardly yet in a fit stato to boar such magnificence. There were many methods by .which much money-'fcould bo spent 'in 'opening up avenues of trade, for deserving settlers, and while,, there was this need he would'be against'spending a largo 'sum,' whidh' the 'Dominion' could ill-afford in palatial buildings., Tho,,thing was almost being, overdone already. He was in favour, however, of a substantial building being ercctcd, but was of opinion that Mount Cook , would'prove most' suitable, for Parliamentary .purposes!."' It's/distance''from otlior Govern'ment'building's''would riot be a great inconvenience in,.these days.of rapid communication, and transit. .Questioned regarding the Library, -Mr: Hogg said he would move only those , books from the present library which jver6''of'materiar use'to'members of Parlia'ifient: 1 ' Ho would, then utilise the remainder of. the library jnth tho new museum to found a national'librair, institute', and art gallery for the'people.' 'Ho had always favoured this 1 idea,.and would support it because at the ■ preseut time this splendid, library was practically closed to the nation. , i ;HON. R.il'NAB'S LOSSES. j ' THE HISTORICAL .MATERIAL.' ! Very general regret' has been expressed, at I the loss in the Parliamentary fire of somo of i tho Hon. R. M'Nab's papers connected with i his historical research work. The public will 1 .be glad to'learn that the destruction in this 1 rcspcct was not so great as was supposed. ' Spoaking to a Dominion reporter . last j evening, Mr. M'Nab said: "Imihediately on , niy arrival in Wellington this morning, I | looked:*:up everything that had:been saved, and '1 find < that, more by chancy than anything elso,Vsome of the most valuable mattor which I had, and which I had not duplicated, was: rescued-from tho fire.' I may mention particularly the material I obtained during ray Amorican tour, and more recently in England. Going over my originals and duplicates. I find/that, where both have been destroyed) they relate to the matorial used iii the production- of- 'Murihiku,' and t.heir loss is therefore only 'an inconvonionco,, as the first'ofi-tho matter, has' been put into that volume.'' I-was naturally very pleased with. my discovery. Tho loss in oonncction with the task that I have 'in hand at prosent—the continuation of' 'Murihiku,' from 18'29. down 1 to 1840, whore the work is intended to terminate—consists for the most part of'the destruction bf tho voluminous index "to the coUectod material. I had compiled' the .index' preparatory to writing out the narrative. I am, therefore, thrown back to the position in which I was when I had ] jiist, finished' ; collecting ' the ( material. Iu re- . gard.'-to;. somei'of-; tho> Government records • wliich werai'tept' in Sydney; I have already ; stated' that the greaty'bulk of them, is ill type,- but- 1 there' were some' which it was not.-deemed .advisable to insert in the vol- '! ume which'is shortly to be published, and they went through'the firo. In tho debris, j however, this pile was discovered, not sufficiently., injured to make' reproduction' inipos- 1 sible. - It will ljo're-Written, and any missing material supplemented • from Sydney, and handed over to tho Parliamentary Library, as originally intended; " The photographic negatives obtained fronr'Paris, and belonging-. to-the New Zealand Government,, and also those obtained 'from tho British Museum,- and' belonging-to''myself, were saved, by being removed from'my room the night before the fire. On tho whole, I got off very fortunately'. I'am ■in ' hopes that, with a 'little, extra', energy infused into the work, the 'publication l of my next volume will not : be, delayed beyond the; date I had previously fixed, for it, about eighteen months from now.'. : ' ' " "A lot 'of my private' material of little historical value was destroyed, and the whole of the Parliamentary papers belonging to the Minister for Lands'-for the time being were entirely wiped out. "What I was most anxiqus about was the''Collection of extracts from old ships' logs,- which I obtained in America, and those weVe'saved, I am told, by my messenger, who rushed into the room and brought out just .is much as he could carry .in • botli■ arms'. 1 was extremely glad to find.that those papers were among the pile that- he' rescued.'" \ Mr. M'Nab has received letters and tele.grams from people in all parts of the Dominion' expressing ,; regrot 'and sympathy with him in the "loss of the' valuable historical documents -which were in his room in the Parliamentary Buildings at tho time of the fire." 1 •? -i Three rooms at tho Ministerial residence in Molesworth Street- have been fitted up. as offices for Mr. M'Nab,' and lie will occupy .thom from to-day. ,V THE RECENT FIRE. Mr. -' William Fraser,' 1 M:H.R., who lias J been : absent ..from Wellington since tho ses-1 !sion, has returned to ttiwn. In the course! .of, a chat'with:-a "Dominion representative, Mi': ■ Fraser said lie'had lost a lot of very] valu.ablo papers which had been kept in Mr. { Masse,v's room. : What he cannot understand) —and others 1 have'voiced'the same opinionis why there was not more rescue work done with regard- to-property stowed away in rooms removed a 'good' distance from the , seat .of- the fire.' There seemed to have been plenty of people about, biit- no authoritative heads-to direct them as : to what was best to be dona under' the 'circumstances. Valti- ' able property; that'could easily have been- ■ removed • during the early stages of the firo was simply left to be'licked up by tho flames in duo course.'< Mr. Fraser is of opinion that in "the case of a large fire tho alarm boll should be-kopt.ringing to impress on everyone that a' conflagration was in pro- ' gross.' 'Had that been i'dono, many officials who lived'quite near to tho Parliamentary Buildings, ,'ind who wore • not awakened, would -have been-:on tho spot, and' could have''directed-the' fescue of what was most valuable:- He' even believes that the old • ward system', of giving'so many tolls to in-dicate-in which part of tile city: the fire was located, would be sin improvement on tho total la'ck of : information now given out with "an alarm of'firo.' Ho understands, 'too, that:tho bell.never rings until tho firo- ' motor-loaves the station. Why people who ,are possibly .interested'cannot be alarmed at ,the earliest'-possible-moment'by tho bell was incomprehensible to ■ hiin. Apropos of tho special precautions that arc being taken just now'.for. tho safety of tho Departmental Buildings, it is understood that these wore put in practice fifteen or sixteen yoars ago, after tho Govornrnent had received a warning, it is believed, from another country, that there was a design to set fire to tho buildings. Mr. H. J. 11. Blow, ■ -Under-Secretary for Public Works, thinks > that it would be a very wise precaution if the (Permanent Militiamon wore retained , as a night patrol after tho present scare, or s whatever it amounts to, has passed. In their ' 'absonce it '.-would bo easy for anyono to set ' firo to the buildings from tho outside, withI 'out the night-watchmnn, who patrols withi -in, knowing anything of the danger till too ) late; Numerous public buildings in England r | are guarded day and night. If the outsido

survoillanco is nmde permanent, it will probably bo necessary to orect sentry boxes as a shelter for the sentries in wet weather. AN OFFER FROM CHRISTCHURCH. TEMPORA RV ACCOMMODATION. (BY TELEGRAPn—riIESS ASSOCIATION.) Ghrlstchurch, December 14. A meeting of citizens was held at noon to-day in response to a circular issued by the Mayor, to consider a to placo before the Premier the advisablencss of holding the next session of Parliament in Christchurch, in view of the destruction of Parliament Buildings. The Mayor presided. He said there were many difficulties, but he thought Christchurcli could supply .tho needful accommodation if it could not be found in Wellington. The Canterbury Hall and annexes would be suitable,'and the Provincial Council buildings would also be available. The, proposal was supported by the Hon. C. Louisson, M.L.C., Mr. Gray, M.P., Mr. G. \V. Russell, Mr. Tanner, M.P., the Hon. H F. Wigram, M.L.C., Mr. > v Gapcs, and others. The following resolution was carried : —"That tho Mayor, on behalf of this meeting, wait on the Premier, and inform him that there is a strong wish on the part of the people of Christchurcli that the next session be held in this city, and,, if the Government consider it, wo are prepared to submit n definite ofFer in regard to a building." Ghristchurch, December 15. The Mayor handed Sir Joseph Ward a copy of the abovo mentioned resolution this afternoon, and the Premier explained -at once that it would be impossible to accede .to such a proposal. Parliament could not sit away from tho 'Government Departments and tho Government Printing Office, and he had 110 doubt l that suitable arrangements could be made in' Wellington.