HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 42, 13 November 1907, Page 9

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

NEW BILLS. Tho following now Bills woro road a first time:—Chinese Immigrants' Aniendmont Bill (Sir J. G. Ward), Divorco and, Matrimonial Gausos Aot Ameiidmont Bill (Sir J. G. Ward), Co-oporativo Dairy Companies Bill (Hon. 11, M'Nab). '•;*.:■ ; Tho following Bills woro introduced by Governor's Message and road a. first time:— Boer Duty Act Amendment Bill, Canterbury Collogo Endowment Bill, and a Bill authorising; the ,uso of a now recording machine for postago stamps.

. Tho Hon. R. M'Nab gavo notjeo to introducoitho Stock Act Amendment Bill.

SHOPS AND pFFICES ACT —-"* ' I. AMENDMENT. Tho Shops and Offioos Act Amendmont jjjH was read a second timo, pro forma, and referred to the Labour Bills Committee. RAILWAY IMPROVEMENTS. , In moving tho second reading of tho Railway Improvements Authorisation Bill,) the Premier said fJio measure was for tho purpose of providing for i'urthor oxpondituro on the Auckland-Pcnrose, tho Addington-Rollos-ton, and tbo Duncdin-Mosgiel linos. The expenditure up to,tho present had beon: Auck-land-PonroHO, £82,7b3; Rolloston-Addington, £3059; Dunedin-Mosgiel, £87,293. . It was believod that £50,000 of tho original loan would cover • tho cost of tho AddingtonRolloston duplication, and none of the present loan was. expected to be required on that lino. A largo proportion would be needed for tho Auckland-Ponroso section —£60,000 it was estimated, in addition to what they already had; and £40,000 would bo necessary for tho Dunedin duplication. Tho amount raised under tho original Act was £185,000, which left a balanco of £05,000 out of the £250,000 originally authorised. It might bo that during tho current financial year, or up to tho end of March next, tlioy would require to oxpend on'the Auckland and Dunedin lines from £135,000 to £150,000 all told. Tho original annual rato of oxpondituro was (fixed at £75,000. The Auckland and Dunedin duplications had exceeded tho original estimates, owing to tho nature of tho country. Betwoon Addington and Rollcston, howovor, the country was flat, and tho work would ho comparatively easy. Mi'. Massey on Loans. Mr. Massey said this was tho fourth loan Bill introduced this session. First, thero was tho million loan, then tho'loan for new post-offices at Auckland and Wellington, tho Hutt road and railway improvement loan, and the present one — a total in all of £1,450,000. Why tho Government could not como down with a loan Bill for tho wholo amount ho could not -understand. The presont method was' misleading to tho public. Under tho existing Acts, tho Government had provision to raise half a million per annum for lands for settlement, half a million undor tho Advances to Settlers Act, £250,000 for advancos to workers, and £50,000 for Maori land settlement—ma*;ing a total authorisation for tho year of £2,950,000. That was not all, howovor, because there was further power under tho Dairy Industry and Scenery "reservation Acts. It virtually meant that tho Government had taken authority to raiso three millions of money this year. Ho recognised in tho development of the country that they must have money and could only got it by borrowing; but in raising such enormous sums a tremendous responsibility was placed upon the Government, and it was their business to see also that tho loans woro obtained at tho lowest possiblo rate; and when they had the money it was their duty to see that tbo taxpayers of the Dominion got full valuo in its use. The Premier Replies. Tho Premier said ho would not havo spokon I had it not been for tho alarmist speecl(

of tho Loador of tlio Opposition, It was n speech calculated to do tho Dominion a great cjeal of harm. Tho lion, gontjomnn had added tho total requirements of tho country undor specified Acts, and then said that wo woro carrying on an enormous borrowing policy. Tho average person would not know what the roal position was unless informed. As a matter.of fact tho whole of tho money used for advances to settlers was now being obtained from tho ropaymont of loans to the Department and interest that had been accumulating. After consulting with Mr. M'Nab, ho\vover, tho Premier said they woro not borrowing more than £150,000 a year. A largo amount of. monoy required for advances to settlors crimo from tho payment of loans and tho accumulation of interest. As to tho loans to local bodies, thoro were accumulations going into, tho Government accounts for which they must find investment, and those accumulations were being used for lonns to local bodies,-* Tho Premior proceeded that ho hod been pressed as no Colonial Treasurer had boon in tho past to incroaso tho expenditure, and he had steadily opposed it, As to tho railway duplications at Auckland and Duncdin, these woro special authorisations, and wero not ordinary works. If the linos, had boon privately owned that work would Tiavo had to- bo done. In regard to lands for settlement, the Government were sometimes blamod for not .taking still larger borrowing powers, but they had recognised .their responsibilities and had resisted nil demands. The Loader of tho Opposition had been amongst those who had pressed for increasod expenditure. Ho again complained of tho nature of Mr. Massoy's. speech, and said a wrong and harmful impression might bo conveyed in London if anyone, chose to transmit the substance of his speech without oxnlainine the position. The Bill was then read a second .time. • QUTTER EXPORT B!LL. The Hon. E, M'Nab, in moving the second reading of the Butter Export Bill, said that tho necessity for'tho Bill had arisen out of complaints from Homo last yoar. An officer had been sent to Tarannki, and he regretted to say 'that tho presence of water in excessive quantities in huttor was becoming a serious inattor, and domandod legislation. The officer, after analysis, had. found water to the oxtont of 21, 22, and 231 per cent, The Bill limited tho amount.of water to lfi per cent. The Special Committee to which tho Bill was referred had made the provisions applicable only-to butter exported from tho Dominion. . Various Opinions. Mr. Ell thought the provisions should also apply to butter. sold in tho Dominion. People in this country should ho protocted. Mr. Hogg supported this view. Mr, Lang said that if the provision woro applicable to the Dominion the price of butter would go up. It would probably prevent tho small farmer from selling his butter. Ml", Field said his iuquin'os had elicited that 18 per cent, was the Danish limit.. Mr. Okoy considered tho Committoo. had done the correct thing in making tho Bill apply only to tho oxport huttor. Mr. Bnddo would support tho application of tho provisions to tho Dominion. Ha'nd-mado dairy butter was as dry as factory butter, and in tho interests of tho public tho percentage of water should bo limited. , Mr. Poole objected that tho Dominion would bo loft with tho "culls" of the foreign market if the Bill as amended by tho Stock Committoo were allowed to pass.

This dobate was continued until 5.25 p.m., when tho second rending was carried ana tho Bill committed. v . The Bill In Committee. Mr. Lauronson moved to restore the Bill to it 3 original form, so that it would apply to butter .intondod to bo sold within New Zealand as woll as oxport butter. The Minister oxplained that tho object of tho Bill was to prevent Now Zealand butter getting a bad namo in England, whore a fino was imposed for selling butter containing more than 16 per cont. of water. Tho Bill was not intended to protect tho consumer... Thoro was no philanthropy in it. 'The amendment was lost by 10 to 54, and the Bill was reported unaltered, road a third -tinio, and passed.

HOSPITALS AND CHARITABLE INSTITUTIONS. FINANCES' OV THE BOARDS. Tho Minister for Fublib Health (Son. G. Eowlds), in moving the second roading of the Hospitals and Charitablo Institutions Bill, said it was not an oxtonsivo amondmont of the principal Act, but was merely in-, tended to remove two or throo difficulties of some urgency. Clauso 2 would give tho Hospital and Charitablo Aid Boards power to mortgago any freehold laiids vested in them as a moans of raising monoy for tho oreotion of hospitals and other institutions. It had been discovered that tho Boards had power to mortgage their ondowment lands, but not thoir freehold lands. Tho Waikato Hospital Board had accordingly found itself in a difficulty in regard to raising monoy. for rebuilding its hospital. Clause 3 would enable the Boards to spend their ordinary rovonucs in erecting institutions and purchasing land for tho purpose. Tho last section was made necessary by tho Town Districts Act of last year. Previously, each town district had been rated as part of tho surrounding county. Town Districts, having a population of not less than 500 had now, however, been given independent' powers, and they consequently escaped tho burden of contributing hospitals and charitablo aid. Tho presont Bill would rectify this omission. Objections by Members. Mr. Massoy said ho saw no objection to the clauso giving tho Boards power to mortgage their freehold lands. Clause 3, however, seemed to put too much power into tho hands of the Boards, as thoy might buy valuable land, and m'ako largo demands upon tho contributing bodies to pay for it. Mr. J. Allen said no right of mortgage with powor of salo had hitherto been given to any local authority in tho Dominion, and this Innovation should bo carefuly scrutinised. Country districts would strongly object to Hospital Boards erecting expensivo institutions, such as infectious diseases hospitals, which would bo almost solely used by the peoplo of tho cities, and compelling tho country peoplo to contribute hoavily to tho oost. For this reason ho would oppose, tho Bill. Mr. T. Maekenzio said tho Bill should have boon brought down earlier in tho session, and ho hoped tho Minister would not go on with it. A measure dealing witli the whole subject of hospitals and charitable institutions was required. '. Mr. Witty objected to tho Bill on the ground that it\ would bo unfair to country districts. Mr. Bollard supported tho pill. Money too Easily Obtained. •Mr. Aitkon objected to giving power to tho Boards to mortgago or sell endowment lands. He asked if that was consistent with the policy of tho National Endowment Bill. If tho Hospital Boards had to levy rates directly and present themselves for election, there would bo a difference in their.administration. Thoy obtained their money too easily, and he objected to a Bill that would enable them to obtain it still moro easily. Mr. Ell objected to tho Boards being given power to mortgago endowment lands. Ho would like to see tho Hospitals ondowed with town lands. Mr. Gray supported the proposal to cnahlo Hospital Boards to obtain money for lands and buildings from the contributory bodies, but was strongly against giving the Hoards power to mortgage thoir lands. Ho thought the Boards should be elective. Mr. Hanan and Mr. Tanner protested against the mortgaging of endowments. Tho latter said that tho clauso would discourage peoplo from bequeathing land to charitablo institutions. ThD Minister's Reply. Tho Minister, in replying, said tho objections of members wore largoly duo to an imperfect understanding of the measure. Clauso 2 would merely" give tho Boards power to deal with their freehold lands as they could now deal with their endowments. They could already mortgago their endowments. A Member: "But not sell thorn." .The Minister: "I am willing to delete tho words ' with or without power of sale.'

(Hoar, hear.) Clause 3 was of less importance, but would facilitate tho work of tho Boards in providing necessary institutions."

Tho House divided on tho motion for the second reading, which was carried bv 51 to 14. "' DEFENCE ACT AMENDMENT. Tho Hon. li. M'Nab moved tho second reading cf itho Defonco Act Amendment Bill. Referring to the new provisions of tho Bill, tho Minister said that Section -4 proposed that in future a captain should bo selected instead of being elected by the corps. ■ The Dofenco Council had been in communication with tho Secretary of the Defence Council, at Home, and their attention had been called to tho fact that tho Universal custom throughout tho Empire was for captains to bo sclcoted. He considered the change dcsirablo in the interests of discipline A lioutonant would still bo elected by tho corps. Some Opinions. Mr. Allen described tho Bill as a moagro instalment of tho legislation he had expected. .Referring to tho alteration regarding tlio election of a captain, experience, ho said, had shown nim that this would bo a wise step. Ho spoke against tho; principle of finiug for absence. , Mr. Malcolm arid Mr. Hogan both spoke against tho proposal to select captains. Tho latter -said somo of the host officers canio from'tho ranks,, and to be olected by their comrades was a ' recognition of assiduity and merit. He would nlso like, to see provision inserted for garrison bands, On the Wrong Track. Mr. Fisher said the Minister would recognise that a Volunteer force must bo led, and inot driven, and that if a Volunteer was driven ho would "get out." It would be a severe penalty in volunteering if n man, becauso of his lowor social standing, was to bo prevented from attaining to the highest position in his company. Before men wero appointed care also should bo taken that thoy woro of proper physiquo and capacity. Ho warned the House against giving too much power to the Dofenco Council. They would find the Houso shorn of its powers in tho matter if they wero not watchful. "Bo careful how much power you givo away, because you will havo difficulty in getting it back," he said. Men were appointed during the South African war who wero not fit to lead soldiers, ' It was tho proposed system of nomination that was destined to bring about a bad system in the future. Givo tho men a chnuce to rise, and not placo a social bar against thorn. Parliament must chooso bor tween a social or a military system. As to fines, ho did. not believe in them, and no Volunteer officor had yot successfully commanded a corps who inflioted fines. Mr. Fisher went on to refor to tho local Submarine' Miners' Corps. The officers and men of tho corps wero at variance. The Military Council had held an enquiry, but matters woro' still in tho same position. Neither men nor officers would givo way.

Mr. Jennings: Dismiss the corps.

. Mr. Fisbqr: Tho corps should have' heon dismissed some timo ago. I can't understand how the caso should be allowed to exist. I brought it undor tho notice of the Defence Minister at the beginning of the year, but nothing has heon done. Ho concluded that the Minister in tho present Bill was on tho wrong track. Ho suggested that tho "titbit" measure ho postponod till next year, when a comprehensive Bill could bo brought down. ,

Finishing Stroke Mr. Symes hoped tho Minister would withdraw tho whole Bill. Volunteering was bad enough, but this Bill would mako it worse. Ho declared, as an old volunteer officer, that if the " heads " woro reduced in number and tho oxponso at tho top curtailed, more money would bo available for ammunition and ride ranges. By rcd-tapo methods and incompetency of administration, volunteering, had been reduced to a bad condition, and .this, would be the finishing stroke.

INFANT LIFE PROTECTION. Tho Minister for. .Education (Hon G. Fowlds), in moving. tho sccowK reading of tho Infant Life Protection Bill, which has already passed through tho Legislative Council, said that tho Education Department, to which it was proposed to transfer tho caro of tho foster homes for infants,; had already 1 under its control 692 boardod-out infants. Tlioro were only 431 in the licensed homes not undor tho supervision of tho Department. Tho death-rate of infants in these homes was considerably lower than outsido. Tho Department had a; staff of highly compotont nurses and matrons, and had an efficient system of collecting tho payments duo to it.

■ Mr. J. Allen said tho Dill would have his hearty support. Ho eulogised tho work of Dr. Truby King, in this connection. • It seemed to him that tho care of these homos should bo given to tho Health Department rathor than tho Education Department. Mr. Wilford said that children had died in Homos in the Dominion under circumstances which, if inquiries had heon hold, would have necessitated somo very direct quostions being asked. Ho supported tho Bill very heartily. Mr. Ell dpoko in approval of tho Bill. . Tho Bill was then read a second timo. ANIMALS PROTECTION BILL.' The Hon. J. Carroll moved tho second reading of tho Animals Protection Bill, which was fully discussed during its passage through, the Upper House. Mr. Hoke expressed dissatisfactibn with tho provisions relating to nativo gamo and other features of the Bill. Mr. Buddo said ho hoped tho Houso would striko out tho clause giving rangors power to search ■ tho luggago of persons suspected of a broach of tho Act.' . Mr. Witty said he did not think the Bill was needed, but cylinder shooting as practised on Lako Ellesmero should bo stopped. Mr. Ell said protection should bo afforded to native birds against tho ravages of secret collectors of oggs and skins.

Mr, Ngata suggested that the shooting sonson should bogin on April 1, and tho Acclimatisation Societies should apply to tho Governor to restrict it as might bo necessary. ~ Mr. Wilford hopod tho Bill would go through, becauso it would provide uniformity for all tho Acclimatisation Societies of'tho Dominion. Tho country was now becoming depleted.of all forms of (*amo, and but for tho olforcs of Acclimatisation Socioties thero would soon ho none. ,

Tho Minister, in replying, indicated his willingness to accept amendments to certain clauses in Committee. Ho said tlio killing of luiias for their feathers should bo prevented, and the huia should bo introduced into districts whore it was not at present found. Tho Uill was road a second timo on tlio voices.

PRESBYTERIAN CHURCH PROPERTY. The Hon. J. A. Millar movod tho second reading of the Otago Presbyterian Church lloard of Property Act Amendment Bill which was agreed to on the voices.

IN COMMITTEE. Tho House then went into Committeo and dealt witli the Hospital and .Charitable Institutions Bill. Tho Minister (Hon. G. Fowlda) consented to amend Clause 2 to prevent power of salo being given over lands vested in Hospital Hoards when money is raised thoreon. The amendment was carried and the clause was adopted by 28 votes, to 19, Mr. Aitkcn having called for a division. The Bill was then reportot! without further amendment. In Committeo on the defence Act Amendment Bill, Clause 4, providing for tho selection of Volunteer officers instead of their election as at presoot, was struck out on tho voices. Tho Bill was then roportod without further amendment. Progress was then reported, and tho Houso rose at 2 a.m.