HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 27, 26 October 1907, Page 6

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

IMPREST SUPP.LY. : Whenthe : Representatives mot yesterday .afternoon: an/Imprest: Supply Bill was /brought ' down j by Governor's message. On- a - motion ■ to.. go into ; Committee of Supply/Mr.- D;.-Reid ,(Taiori). half; hour address ;ot bi-metaMisni. -He showed the • important bearing, that. ;the . supply', of. gold and/jsilvjer/ had. 'upon.'; trade , and -.commerce: He /Said /that ;.;mebsnres 'vwere : put upon the Statute-.Book'-and /described as a suc- ■ cessj -but.sthe-,;wholo .matter hinged- on the "supply,of-money-available.; Why/there should bo such ', a disregard - of : this; important question he. llid not ;kndw..;,'''l - know,' 1 said Mr. :Reid,:.'-'this is not an'interesting subject; but ,it is ; ono. that 'I' take .'great interest in, and, -though I refer to .it, every : yoar,;l never- in.more.than 'half- an ( hour on .the House." iAmeric'an''Flnancial:i'Crisis.i/.i /.

slSMe^J^'?ir; : '' :: H[iirrfcs,-.' Mr. "Ell,' Sir, 1 Joseph \Vferd, an<l';.pth*era congratulated Mr. Reid; The Premier; in a few i-emarks-'said that in this, country''we wero in tho'happy position of being ,yery v strong financially, and our • financial institutions .were as sound as. those"- of-any Mother country , he could recall: He did pot think there was any probability of r such '.troubles > (referred to by Mr: Ell), as ivere : afflicting , America/' just-: now,;' over comihg' to; New /Zealand. This country/had little or 'no' attachment-to' America in/the' way ,of isecurities-rthd.Premior himself knew of norie—jarid we,could feel that Now Zealand was happily : beyond, the./influence ',of the crisis. .J,t3 : . effcct, certainly had hoeh felt ,on the:- English: Stock Exchange; -In Now.; Zealand, however,- there was more money in the institutions--within- our own shores than was wanted to' carry oh'the work of the country. Ho: Wopld?ilike/-"as ; ..!Preitftei','- 'to'-declare Hhat no apprehension need, be/felt,as 'to sent financial''distraction feaching 'Now. Zeal-' and.' 'Our/finaßciar'position/was /most'sat- . isfactory; As,..to .bi : -metallism,/:.it" was, riot likely to come, up Jfor years. Rpferring'to remarks by Mr. Ell regarding bank notes being constituted Jcgal'.'tender: the Premier did.not know!'whether any of the Neyr Zoaland banking institutions had "any feeling. on the* question 1 , "but for: his own pairt , he.. would like tosseeVit'-clone, heca-use.if they should:have;li panic in the .future 'it always a-good thing-to have some system.'of guarantee.

Tlie Back-blookers.-;• .I' Mi\ ''Jennings (Egmont) . put' in. a plea :for tho settlers'on' the Auckland and Taranaki districts Jin regard He. had ,spoken' on-'tKisV.niattqri.for.'jfivp -years,;;-and .he,.!would, d0,:50.-persistently/and- consistently. in. the, future. , 'Owing-to the':.yery; bad;,weather this season, -.things vvefo worse-,than 'ever in vTaranaki and:parts" of • Settlors had been; induced to go; to ;.the. back-blocks, and no provision..was'madb Tlievpositioh,\ indeed, * was- bccoming isoribus. ' In one locality- the establishment 1 of-; a creamery, had been .'seriously-delayed the machinery coutd' Vot' ; I bv'er" the' roads. Ho .thdVGovernment wpuld give close con'sidcratioiuto tho matter. »v ; Finance; • -■ z '><■.- '- Mr... JEerncs. also spoke on ,tlie same subject. Proceeding; . lie. Wanted tq ; know, .when the Pnblic Works .Statemeiit . would come.'down. He' jiopcd'tlic expenditure this quarter would not ibe diminished as compared with ' the similar quarter last -year; Instead,' it • should be increased' on account of, the results' of the terrible weather in the Northern portion: of this island; and' no: doubt-Ministers also;, ha'd'been; deluged with requests for assistance'. The roads iri : somc places could not ho " balled roads;.; [they- wefeciinals. Mr.' Herries also, askccl the. Premieri to state the financial position! Tliis would' bo the last opportunity they": would "havo to discuss finance. ' There wero some'large sums of debentures coming" due -this quarter, and- the House ought to know how tlioy. were going to. be mOt; -.-'-v Mr.. Lang -(Mahukau) asked for assistance for the settlers. . Jn a portion, of his electorate, ;not yery'.'faV '-froni. Auckland city, timber could'ii'ot he carted-for (rschoql-house, Stock "also could' Mot be {driven';,- v

Mess'rsi Bollard and' Okcy also spoko on behalf of .-their, 'disfcriots.'-.'.iTho/'jaiftcr. urgcd the Government to .declare their public works policy ,as soon as Possible to, allow. ; lbcal bodies to get on'with. their roadworks 'for noxt year. In-a'little .nrhilp'tbei-season would be too l advanced. to do anything;,..'/. Substitutes for Roads. , Mr. T. Mackenzio ..(Waikouaiti) advanced the incomparabloness of. the system of .lightline j-ailway. as n means or assistance to the back-blockers,'i arid a! means to tho opening up:'of--'settlements;. V ... ■, Mr. J; Allen (Bruc6) asked the Government to make inquiries regarding , the. mono-rail. If what was-said of this.;;Syst'em. of railway was 'true;' nothing cheaper 'or better • could be desired .for ,tho: back-blocks. : . . . Mv v Hogg thoiigiitptlie old system ways, would -toe. thi) -speediest' and cheapest molliod. 1 -i-' Duty on Food Stufls.. , Mr. Ilogg proceeded to refer to tho duty on food stuffs, stating that 'the 'flonrinillor's and "grain", merchnnts/wero making' a good tiling. out; of the retention, of : the duty.. ', The Premier:' Yoil will get the' Flour Duty Bill down:, next..week. ' Why- not'wait till then?.' i ■; ': Mr. Hogg-proceeded that thero should bo no need for the encouragement of 'the farmer

or the pastoralist.! Wheat, oats, and other products could, be grown in this Dominion in abundance,.' and if 'tho farmer was not able ,to 'grow successfully and compote with imported foods he 'had'better turn his attention to something else. ' He (Mr. Hogg) had had a> letter from a miller, a day alter Parliament -had affirmed the duty on Hour, stating that' wheat in Christchurch had suddenly gone ''up 2d. a bushel. At no time in New Zealand had tho necessaries of life been higher than they were'now. Ho defied anyone to point to a period when wheat was higher. Ho contended that if tho duty was roinoved tho price of flour would go down £1 a ton. (Laughter.) . Mr. Witty: In Australia it is £1 a ton higher than here. Air.' Hogg proceeded that the samo thing applied'to .all tho necessaries of life. Articles tho soil could prodnco in abundanco should not bo taxed.- Ho' had had letters from many workers in Canterbury — from wlicro they wero. told the people, wero up in arms against interference with tho duty—complaining of .the. high,price of flour. Ho had also had isimflar lettors from farm labourers in tho, samo district. He hoped the Premier would carry his policy out as soon as possible. The! workers of the Dominion woro suffering most acutoly ;from the'high price, of bread. Ho -intended : in the. future ,to introduco his Bill for the abolition of duty, on-flour, next yoar and overy year ho remained in Parliament. . „ , " . ■ • . ,

-Mr. Wv-Praser .-.(Wakatipu). asked if the momber. for-Masterton did not know that high prices ruling in-other countries caused the .prosperity -of .this country .as it. raised the prices here?- : The high pricos were-also responsible -forj,the high, wages ruling- The. flour duty <was not .causing tlio price of wheat to. go up, but.'the fact that., harvests had failed; in the , great producing countries." ' The Premier's. Answers. '. Sir .-Joseph..'Ward, in reply to Mr. Herries, said - the f!2o0;000 debentures had.-been .-re-newedVafc-.the. same interest] for a period of seven years.'-'He' went'on to say that-the ■expenditure on roads was greater .during the past two .quarters..than for the same period : last year; . •Tho ;pbsition of .the ..Public .Works Fund was very'satisfactory. . The Monorail... The matter of themono-rail for opening up; settlement-in this .country - had beon under notico for. some timo. The High Commissioner had;,instructions' at' Homo,-to. roport upon. tho success of all trials. . So far, however,''test's had not shown the systom would Be- satis 'factory for this Dominion! More, howover, 'might .be heard'from the inventors before very: long. • ; Roads'and-Brfdges.. ' ' As 1 ; to ■■■ requests . for roads in the backblocks, the Government could only stand a certain amount of . borrowing every year, and they'had td .cut their cloth accordingly. Tho Government, however, were desirous to do what they could, to. help the .settlers,' \ Flour Duty. ,; Heidid not> at- present care to 'say what the provisions of the proposed Flour Bill would, be, but' they would be of a practical 'character; and would conservo the. interests of all'parties.; ; A t the present time, with the high' values ruling in other parts of tlie world, if \tho . whofc; duty were taken off flour the ;prico wpuld not be 2s. 6d. a tbri less. (Hear, hear.). '~

;Mr. .Poland: Try. it.' ' .» i I'litj P'rpniier: It iTr.ould bo' unwise to ruin .alot.df'peopld and.spoil'ari industry.without doing; tho. slightest. good,, by., giving way to •a,.yry," Thefe was-' a proposal m.the Bill to meet' fluctuating : circumstances. He did not want to create ail impression that they were 'gpißg.'t'o;'take off duty*, .but; what they would do would bo.'to .provide for. all conditions— for when wheat was'eithor-high, or'low* Snipping and Seamen's Act. Mr.. Thomson,; asked if the Government would amend the Shipping and Seamen Act so as to obviate the grievance of fishermen in that they aro not .'permitted to go .to sea. u with;.a,4Q, .15, .or 20 ton vessel, having an oil engine, without carrying a certificated engineer. 'This regulation.:was one 'of the causes, of the high price of fish. Ho knew the'.'Minister , had intimated his recognition of.the necesity of such nn amendment of the Act, hut'he urged that ;it should be effected this session. / ; '" ' 1 Volunteers Travelling. . ' The Hon. T. t. t Duncan urged that the Government should grant'additional facilities toiVohmteers travelling on the railways. • The Promier, in replying, agreed that tho \Government .should bo moro liberal than it had been to Volunteers travelling by train. /He had already indicated that greater facili'tiei: would be given, and lie reiterated that' statement. ~,:Wnat the ..Yoluriteors themselves had/to . guard against' .was/to see that the concessions were .'not .abused; Tho ; Govdrri.meht/was/very, anxious' to\encourago .volunteering throughout, the Dominion,' and this was one of .-.tho. means to Ko employed with thisi object. . . ....... The: Revenue. . The Premier went on to refer to the .financial position •of the Dominion; : Tho, revenue during the last six months totalled £3,829,304. Tho revenue during the corresponding period •of last 'year was £3,482,569, the increase being,. £346,735.' : These figures showed the wonderful buoyancy of our finances./ ~, , Mr. Massey: ; Have you got,, tho expenditure'? " './■/ .1 • /The Premier,:, " No. The/rovenud" is tho, barometer which shows the of-the country.' . Our business, trade,, and industries in tho aggregate are doing, well." : This was especially, satisfactory in view, of the unfortunate financial occurrences'in 'certain other countries. The Dominion was strong financially, and; thero was enough money to moot 'the requirements of every class.. The country was more self-contained' than it . had over been : before: / The, Provisions. ./■

The imprest Supply Bill (No.' 5) was' then passed. '■■■'' The Bill makes provision asfollow: —Fiist Schedule-rTho Consolidated Futid, £450,000; the Public Works Fund, £150,000; the Government Loans to Local Bodies Account, £7000; the Land- for .Settlements Account, £l 000; the ' State Forests Account, £2500; the State Goal Mines; Account, £25,000; the Scenery Preservation Account, £1000; the Hiitt Railway and Road Improvement .Account, 1 . £5000; the Railways. Improvements Authorisation Act'A'ccount, £6000; the Maori Land': Settlement Act Account, £500; tho Wailcata -Branch: Railway Account, £8000; total, £656,000. - , •... Second Schedulo—Tlio Government Insurance- Account;,, £7500 y the■; Government Accident Insurance Account, £1000;, the State Fire Insurance .Account, £1000; tho Public Trustee's Accounti ~£1500; the Government Advances , to, Settlers . Account-,' £2000; tho Government- Advances to 'Workers Account, £1000; total, £14,000. . - .. .-

, NATiONAL 'ENDOWMENT BILL. •■■••. v' GOJUnTTBE. STAGE,: , The Endowment:. Bill, was then committed., 1 : • • •Mr.' .Larig : moved_' to.,' make, tlio title, of the /Bill .tho " Land Nationalisation and Leasehold- Act.".••'■( Laughter.) ,'Ho said that aftor what had'beon .pointed out: during previous debates, tho present title of the measure would'bo misleading. ■ .. .. Mr. Herries supported the. amendment with the .'object, of. giving a truo character to the Hill. .. " ,Mr. 'Mando: thought the member for -\lanakau was endeavouring to strangle tho infant before its. christening, and ho felt very nnich inclined to help him. (Laughter.) The nanus was a misnomer. . v " ■ '. r: "Would Smell as Sweet." s Mr. Dillon: A roso' by any other nanio Would smell as sweet. v (Roars of laughter.) Mr. i.Alossey: This ono stinkoth 1 (Laughtor.) • ■ ■ .. Mr. Dillon rose up, and with great indignation denounced the waste of time. As ho had said boforo, "a .rose/ by any other name would, smell as sweet"—(laughter)--and why vadopt tho present tactics over the title. Let \hein got on to good, solid work,' and not talk nonsense. (Laughter.) Mr; Massoy wondered why the Government member's wero; silent. It looked like a compromise; a conspiracy of silence. (Laughter.) He pointed out the absurdity. of tin

Government proposals, and said if tho oldage pensioners and education, were to lie dependent ok the. endowments heaven help tlieml People would not go in for intense cultivation' unless tlie.v luid a good tenure. 1 i.o Premier did not desire to discuss the Ji:i"s until Clause 2 was reached, when ho would propose an amendment. Sir. Allen said it was pleasant to find the Premier so reasonable. Mr. Bennett (Tuapeka) declared lie would oppose the Bill as it stood at present. Father, or Stepfather ? Mr. Massey announced that the Premier was the stepfather of the Pill. He did not know who the father was. .If the alterations in the title was accepted they would very soon make the Bill acceptable. (Laughter.) "Wo will make it so that its stepfather won't know it." (Laughter.) How would it affect immigration, asked Mr. Massey, if it wero known at. Homo that nine million acres of land were to bo shut out from acquirement under the freehold ? Mr. Rutherford was unfavourable to the Bill. To say that the endowments wouid provide for.education and old age pensions was preposterous. Sir Jospoh Ward, roplying a few minutes before the supper adjournment, to a statement, said, that no arrangement had been come to between . tho Government and any members as to what the Government intended to do. At tho proper time ho would oxplain the position fully, and what the alteration Was that lie intended to propose, tho Opposition no doubt would fail to accept the proposal, but ho thought it would satisfy tho supporters of tho Bill. . Mr.' Massey:, North . . Island as' well as South ? "...

The Premior: Mr. Massey. draws a distinction between the two islands; I.don't. \ Mr. Massey: I would liko tho assurance that the, right lion, gentleman does not intend to try. • The Premier said . he-looked , upon both Islands'as- New Zealand'. .'

Mr:-Okey-thought tho Premier should have informed the- members as to the nature- or tho -"proposed alterations'before' they, were asked to discuss it. \ ..." ; 1

Mr- Mander said-ho was prepared to go on lighting;.. the Will until Christmas or tlio following. Christmas "-if, necessary. Ho had nothing, to. tsjko. him,-, away, • and, would bo willing to stay fighting in a good cause. Mr. Massoy ..in the .'.course of further , remarks,' said .that during tlio debate on the second •.'.■reading ,tho member 'for : Motueka had promised if .ho (Mr. Massoy) assisted w strike ; Nelson lands':out of the schedule he would assist him.

Tlie member for Motueka (who 'occupied tlio "chair).:.l',rulo the. member., 'out, of order'. (Laughter.). Discussion was continued until 12.10 a.m., when!-a'-division was. taken on', Mr. Lang's amendment,-'which, resulted adversely, by .43 to 13. " . ... ■ ■ An Explanation. Mr;. Massoy: I want to take an opportunity of asking tho Premier, what his intention -is in, regard to the; Bill;', and I must say that he has not'.troated. his sido of the Houso properly.. ' -,■ ■ The Premier: That side is not treating tins sido-.properly., .' ' . • Mr. Massoy said there was an attempt to crush .tho Opposition,.and though .they were few in'number they were not, going to bo crushed." ; ' " " \' • ■ .

..Mr, Massey ' proceeded that the Premier had told him iii the presence of witnesses that afternoon that ho intended to make, an important amendment in the Bill.' ■ Tlio' Premier,had said in front of witnesses, that ho proposed to' striko oydrything- out of tin schedule except runs. Tlje Premier-said lie had, not, and proceeded to relate what, had, trarispired v in the lobby botween himself and'the,Leader pf tho Opposition. He said the statements mentioned ,by tho Leader of the Opposition, as to what passed .between them 'were at variance. He challenged Mr. Massey. to bring witnesses to prove his statement; and to show what ho proposed .to do -in -regard to' the Bill.-- ' - . :

; Mr. Massoy: "The lion, gentleman, said, in. tlio. presence of tho member for Taranaki and myself, that 'he was going to striko everything out, except tho runs. , '

Tho Premier: That is contrary to fact, and, impossiblo. Nothing of . tlio kind was' proposed, "or intended to 'bo proposed or suggested." , ' ' . Mr. .Okoy stated that, lie was in the Whip's room before lunch time; when '.tho Proinior came ixi.. Ho referred to .the Bill, when the Leador of the Opposition mado a statonicnt. "Tho-Premier mado' a .further statement," continued Mr. Okoy, "that the Bill would go through much more easily,' and referred to . tlio land that' would bo in the schedule being the grazing runs."Tlio Premier: "Thojion. momboris stating what'is absolutely 'contrary to fact." '

Mr. Massey then moved to report progress. Tho'Premier had refused to piit a statement before.tho House, 'and had 'contradicted the statements of himself and Mr.: Okoy, which were- absolutely correct. They wero told that tho',-principle'-.of'the Bill , was to bo altered after, tho sccond reading,, and thoy wero not' told' how: Ho had never known information ■to,-bo '.withholdr in-such : a way -'before;

The- proceedings of tho evening, and'said he. had been' perfectly fair., As soon as Mr. Lang moved the motion he'.(the Premier) liacl indicated that at Claiisq 2 he would move an amendment which' he woiild then fully explain.-. Ho had'intimated this oarly : in the .evening. , . .. .; ■ Mr. Allen said the reason-for the action of tho Opposition that evening 'was becauso they.-, had not been givon. information'' ias -to tho Premier's intentions. Tho Promier said ho had indicated early in tho evening what, lie inteiided-to'doand he wouldadhere to it. v He, was going to,ask tho House,to tako the, amendment .to Clause 2-and. discuss it for a reasonable time., A Report. / ,j Mr. Massey said it had, .been reported, that .'the Ministers had .'determined: to put the Bill through at one sitting, and'had. arranged for relays of members up to midnight on Saturday. That had';since "been contradicted. . '<' ' > ■ Mr. Miissoy's motion 1 to.'report- progiess was lost on tho voices:' ' 1 . THE PREMIER'S NEW PROP,OSALS. . •'" ENDOWMENTS AGAIN REDUCED., . ,Tho Premier said that, ■in order to givo jnembors .timo' for consideration',' ho, would movo his amendment as a new clause at ly later stage, instead of'., as' an amendment to Clause 2. : Ho; then read ; the . new- clause as follows:— ' " l "In addition . to- the Crown land doi'. scribed in the schedule hereto, the.area of national endowment .land shall include all Crown land (not being land subject to v the Land for Settlements Consolidation Act, 1900) 'which on thi) passing of this Act or . at any . timo; •thereafter' is held under • a renewable, lease .in accordance with tho. ■ provisions' of '.Part I of the Land /'Laws . Amendment Act, 1907; or under lease as a small grazing-run under the provisions of Part V of the Land' Act, 1802. and all sucli '-laud'shall bo or become ana shall at all times 'thereafter,'.remain subject' to the provisions 'of this Act accordingly.''.

: Tho Premier explained that the renewable lease ■ lands and > small; grazing runs' would take the place of certain other lands in tho schedfile. This.brought another class of land into the endowment scheme, and the original 9,000,000 acres of endowments would bo reduced to 7,000,000 acres. The lands that might, in tlio future/ bo held on renewable lease, arid as, small- grazing runs, would also become'endowment land®. r The schedule as altered would' mako . tho endowment lands in each district as follows: •Auckland; ... 900,000 acres;. Hawke's Bay, 135,000 acres; Taranaki, 90,000; Wellington, 90,000; Nelson, - 1,000,000;- -Marlborough, 330,000; Westland, 770,000; Canterbury, 1,330,000;- 'Otago, 1,685,000; Southland, 670,000. The , area- of- small grazing runs available would be GJ2,038 acres, and tho endowment lands, apart from those held under; renewable lease, would bo 7,642,638 acres. Ho was not alilo to say what the area of renewable lands would be.

Mr. Massey contended that tho proposed amendment to.Clause 2 justified all tho opposition of tho evening. He understood from the' Premier's, proposals that a greater proportion of tho endowments would go to the Ndrtli Island, and. lie objected. - He aiso was decidedly, against the ronewable lease settlers coming undor tl'.o Bill. . _ • ; Mr., ; Hqrrics at 2 a.m. again asked the Premier to report progress, as several, consequential matters required to be threshed out. Clauses 2 and 3 wore postponed. Machinery * clauses down to, and including, Clause 11, were passed, and the House rose at 3! p.m. . . .