CLUB CHARTERS.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 17, 15 October 1907, Page 6

CLUB CHARTERS.

NEW ZEALAND ALLIANCE DEPUTATION. -, Dlt FINDLAY EXPLAINS. A deputation, -representing the ; No\v Zcaaml Alliance, was introduced to-the. Colonial Secretary yesterday- by Mr. C. H. Poole, in •egard to.the granting of ,a club charter at .iisborne. , ' Tlie Rev. J. A. Dawson, President of the Alliance, said they understood that tho Cosmopolitan Club at Gisborne was applying for i charter. Tho point the deputation wished to emphasise was that, though itvwas recognised that tho Government hacT power to ;rant a charter under certain conditions, yet ;he licensing; law-was emphatic that- there should bo no increased facilities in tho way if licenses, except under, very special conlitions. The, experience was that a club iharter was as bad as a license from the iquor standpoint, and was iiot so easily lealt with. The speaker recognised they :ould ho voted out, but i financial vnd other interests wero so _ increased that it was not, easy to got rid of them once, they had been granted. Tho clubs had 'a very, serious effect indeed. • He took tho Working Men's Club,; Wellington, as ah example. It would ho soon that while this was ostensibly a Working Men's Club, yet the takings in connection with tho trade for six, months ending June 30 (according to the balance-sheet) were as follow:—Refreshments, £5202 13s. 4d.; refreshment tickets, £147 16s. Bd.; billiards,- £250 lis.; sale of ompties, ~•?;. 8 9s. lOd.; or a total'of £5612 12s. 11. . associated with the bar trade. Since tits last general election, proceeded the speaker, charters had been granted to Feilding, -'Hastings, and Masterton. This had not been in Dr. Findlay's time of office! blit the point was that the charters seemed as il thoy had been granted quite in defiance ol the veto of tho people. At Feilding tho con : tinurinco voto at the last election was'lßo7, and no-license 2534; at Hawke's Bay continuance was 2425, no-license 2673; at Masterton continuance 21447 no-license 3056.''. Ho con tended that theso figures "showed; that the will of tho people as expressed at the polling booths was very clear. In -regard to Gis borno, thoy wore informed that'ithe. figure: of tho town and suburbs wore:—Continuanct 855, no-license 1594, which indicated : the mind "of the people on the liquor question Tho" speaker understood that the club hat about 100 .mombers. ,By the granting of thi charter thoy expectod these' would bo in creased to 300. Tho deputation'had beei informed that the majority of the club vot ing for tho' charter was only two: If thawero so,- apparently there was a strong feel ing in the club itself that thoy. should noapply for the charter. Another statement wa; that the publicans wore really behind tin application,-that they wore in tho Club and wero urging all they knew. -'Tho depu tation were also informed from Gisborne tha another club thero had had a charter of fered thorn—they could have had it if tho; cared to apply —but had refused it. . Hi mentioned. this to show that l thero was i very strong feeling at Gisbomp, which ha< beon also expressed at the last and previou general elections. They hoped that the Gov eminent would consider tho peoplo of: thi town and suburbs in this matter. In regan to the Wollington Working Men' Club, it had : been - told hin that sinco tho ,' locker . system ' wa introduced . that whereas a man. could ge through Sunday-with oho shilling, it now cos him 25.. Gd". Asked how this came about tho speaker had-been told that tho locker wore filled and members were expected t< pay. .There ,wero sufficient facilities a] ready at theso "clubs for thoso who wanted : 'ti tkinlc, and those ~who! desired to bonofi from club lifo should not; have liquor tlirus upon them ..'- ,! ..:< ,: Mr.- T; Isitfc said that; when in ■ Gisborni some months ago ho'had. found feeling ver; strong there on the part- of the.no-licensi workers. Information had been laid, again? cort.ain publicans for having sold draugh whisky from bottles, representing that i was "case-'' liquor. ' At tho same time in formation had been laid against a.-nuniber o tradespeople for .not. having thojr. weight; and measures tested. A telegram had conn instructing the police to withdraw tho in formation .against tho publicans, but no against tho trades-people. This was ver; keenly resented. He happened, to bo then and know. ' It was early this year. Dr. Findlay said this was news to tin Cabinet. ■'"''■ Mr. Isitt went on to say that tho hotel; wore' practically committee, rooms for Gov ernment candidates at general elections. Mr. A. It.'Atkinson and Rev. Mr. Cocke; also spoke. - - '-.-;•' - 1)11. FINDLAY IN REPLY.' : In reply, Dr. Findlay said he wanted thi deputation to bear in mind- that tho proseir Administration should be hold responsible fo: its own conduct, and for its own, conduc only.'- The- Administration.was not .ofio tha had come into office very long ago. Tho positioi in regard to the' clubs referred to by Mr Dawson —taking' Masterton- for instancewas that a definite promise had been mad' to : the members that if -■ they built a ■ olul house a charter, would bo granted." Dr Findlay gave his assuraneo that the promis. had" boon made' by a responsible'• Minister The same, applied to the other cases, aiii a petition in'regard to tho Gisborne clul had come in eighteen months ago.';' The.Gis borne peoplo were • led to believe ■': tha if thoy erected a building, costing £3000, oi certain lines, a charter would follow in timo It was a question whether "that promis' should not bo. made good...The:Goyernmen wero quito alivo on these matters, and h asked. tho deputation. to remember tliat.il the present Administration, they had somi fast frionds and active members of the causi the deputation advocated who were con stantly vigilant to see that the will of. th people was not defeated. If-this matter hai como beforo the present Cabinet in the firs instance it would havo been refused, and al similar charters Would bo. refused in future They were alive to the fact that to grant i charter where tho voice of tho peoplo wa against it,was declaring against the will o tho people.. They had carried a resolutioi in' Cabinet that no club charter, was to h granted in such cases—(hoar, hear). Twi days , ago . he had refused an applicatioi for a charter for . an artists' club ii Wellington. - QUESTION OF RESPONSIBILITY. ; Ho did not wish to. escape responsibilit; for the past, nor I ,to east reflections on tin Ministry who took a different view of ,thii matter, but in tho present, case he 1 desira to impress upon tho 1 deputation' that tlici: hands were largely tied. Ho again referret to the special promiso mado to Gisborne and said it was a matter which Cabinet,ha( considered and they had weighed the ovi donee beforo them; and when he-said tha l Cabinet, wero unanimous on : the: matter, hi thought tho .deputation, knowing'who ha< concurred 'in that decision, would recognisi that tho fullest consideration had been given The Minister proceeded that he did not thinl Mr. Isitt would intentionally do anyone ai injustice. Tho matter he had referred to— the withdrawal of tho charges against pub licans —was entirely new to Cabinet, and i it'was found to be correct the Government Would obtain information as to tho ofiicen responsible. As to tho statement that pub lichouses wero the cohimitteo rooms of_Gov ernment candidates, tho present Administra : tion had, not yet run general elections, anc he thought theso remarks were unfair to ; considerable number of mombers.of the Government party'who wero staunch friends o1 temperance. He thought Mr. Isitt should qualify his remarks in vibw of tho number oi members on"tho Government sido of tin Houso who wero as anxious for reform as he was. Ho and other-members of tho Cabinet would, bo sorry if it was .true that tho pub lichouses • wero the committee rooms of the Government'candidates. In any caso, the present Government was responsible for its own sins, and'not for thoso of presiding Administrations. In regard to the question ol club charters ho-was inclined, to agree with Mr. Atkiuson that it was an anomaly where local option was so-widespread as in Now Zealanel that this question was also not one for tho public to voto upon. This was his opinion apart from anything other members of tho Cabinet thought. It was no wjsh ol his to havo to consider olub charters at all, and ho, as Colonial Seorctnry, would be verj

much relieved if these matters were decided on thepopular vote. As to the locker system, ho thought it was even worse than the system of ordinary license It was not subject to control. It lent itself to what was described by Mr. Dawson, and when-tho I proper time came lie would be agreeable that something should be done to check 'the ovil which otherwise would certainly grow—(hear, | hear). Mr. Isitt said his information regarding the withdrawal of summonses was from the Gisborno daily papers. As to his other statement it 'was not suggested that tlia Government representatives made the publichouses their official committee rooms, but that, elections were run in touch with the publichousos. ' The., publichouses wero practically the 'jommittee rooms of the Government candidate In reply to an interjection Sir. Isitt said in this he only referred to Gisborno. Dr. Findlay said it was rash to extract any general rule from single instances, and ho was quite satisfied that the practice stated '( was as far removed from the wishes of the Government-as could well be. It was not necessary to say anything further aboufc.it. It would bo derogatory, of a Government to countenance such a thins.