HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 14, 11 October 1907, Page 6

HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES.

.■ ! THE LAND, BILL. '! ; ,raE..COMJnTTEE. STAGES. During the discussion in Committco in. the House' of Representatives in the -early hours of'yesterday morning, Mr. J. 'Allen moved to : strike out tho words "and in sub-sec-tion ;,":a'": of/Clause -7,: viz:—" A valuation ;of" the -substantial improvements of a permanent character which are then in-existence and unexhanstyid.on tho':land .included /.in ..the. lease. .'. ." Latßr':6n"'Mr. 'Allen' stated he intended to move amendments in regard to improvements which 1 -ho thought would overcome'many present Valuers and ,; A /brief debate followed'on valuation, in -the' course of'which- Mr. Rutherford referred 'to grassed'rproperty,- and said that'nothing was ; allowed/where rograssing-' had" been-'/successful. He thought the' Government" should treat land-owners better-than they proposed under tho Bill. ' I . Mr. Massey ; said.it was evident tho Bill..was, goings to be.,passed without ampndnleii,t!.,,.'!Ho,, protested that the measure;;would, ,be,. the>, biggest check to .land settlement;,the Dominion had ever had..-.He went : ..bn to/point out that,,the,,proposals,as,.to, tho methods of.valuing .were, unfair;,to, tho settlers. Mr. M'Nab protested against tho .statement of tho Leader of the Opposition'that it'had,been arranged to ■pass the, Bill, as 'it;, Stood, and without amendment/,'lt was ; hot, so.-, Amendments had'bb'cri suggested by members of tho Govei : hm'o")vfc" v sid'o'"'of' the House. .jTho discussion, so w far had centred 'round ariiendriie'nts >which./represented tho oxtremo. views of tho question and •on which amendment's could not bo accepted. ,';•/ ,'.„ I-,/. ;!,,,.'. _* A member': Party feeling is very istrong. s ■ 3! Tho Minister pointed out again that;those, with the Gpy.ernment'had moved ;'amentlmeiits.' He regretted the state-, ■mcnt.of the Leader of tho Opposition, tbecanse up |I tq,,the present they had .'been, gotting. along. swimmingly. ■ >:- Mr. W.' Fraser'recalled tho fact that i'the!- /'Minister h'ad' : j?a'id!' this' clause /dealt,only with appraisers, and that ■ there.,were arbitrators,' arid, if neccs--sary, : a Judge of, the,; Supreme Court behind; but, he maintained; as had the member ,for..Hurunui arid tho Leader of tho Opposition,'that oven.thb final decision would 'bo, 'prejudiced in favour of .'the,' Crowri; by.this .'clause. - ■ Mr. Herries said that crops and sand-reclaimed ' land did not come under the " substantial improvements" definition. , Mr. Witty: A man,knows when his lease is running out. i '■■ Mr/fHerries:'So-miich-the worso for the Crown.; . Ai.man.would leave his land.'in-a stato not;',advantageous to the Crown. '

The Minister said there was no reason why the definition could not be extended to includo sand-land reclamation, .cropping, and ( gfassing-land. Tho matter of valuation would, howover, be .properly dealt with under another.clause* .niihj.Kv-' Making Progress. The amendment, was rejected .by 36 votes to 27. i Clause 7 was then passed unamended. Clauses 8, 9, 10, and'll were passed .without amondmpnt' Mr. Massoy moved'to l strike out subsection 4of clause 12—"In making their determination the., arbitrators shall bo subject to tho provisions hereinbefore contained'as to tho ! valuation by an appraiser." .•••■"'.:. . Tho clauso was retained by a majority of 40 votes to 25. ' : '- •'■ ; . At Clause 14, which''provides for tho lessee to reccivo"tlle"Valuo of improvements if the lease'is not renewed, some discussion aroso on sub-section 3, which, on tho suggestion.of.Mr. Massey and •Mr. Allen, tho Minister consented to amend so as to make it read as follow:

—" If the said improvements have become for any reason appreciated or depreciated :in-value between the dato of tlio valuation or arbitration and the date on which the lessee gives iip possession of tlio ]and,'thc amount of this, appreciation, or depreciation shall bo assessed in' tho manner-provided in sections 7 to 12, and shall bo addod to or deducted from the valuo of the land." ..The.clause was .adopted in this. form;! -!".■: Minerals. >•■-..■ Mr.Massey moved to strike "clay"' out of clause 15, sub-clause 2, thus enabling a"' lessee' to extract or remove clay .without tho ' ecessity of obtaining a license'. Tho amendment was lost by 38"votes to"26i ' ' ■';,","■ Mr. Massoy then imoved to exempt kauri gum in tho same way. Tho Minister said lit was already intended to dp ,this. .. , • The amendment was, carried by 41 to 21. ■"■".. ' : The Premier then moved to report progress. This . was ] carried, and the House rose at 2.25 a.m.; I ' MONDAY SITTINCS. NATIVE LAND BILL WANTED. ..-. LIVELY DISCUSSION. Whori tho House'met this afternoon, tho Premier, in-accordance with notice that 'lie 'had. given, 1 moved:—" That on Moiuliiy next tho House do meet at 2.30 p.m. for the consideration of local Bills only until 5.30-p.m." . This was carried. Tho'Premier also moved: —"That on and after Monday next,' and for the remainder of the session, the Houso

should moot on Mondays, at 7.30 p.m., for tho transaction of Government business only." Bad Atmosphere. Mr. Massoy pointed out that the proposal would bo a severo tax on tho House. Several members had already been laid asido by sickness, although ho did not put this down to the hours, which, on the whole, had not been unreasonable. Ho attributed it rathor to tho atmosphere of tho Chamber and the lobby. (Hear, hear.) "They are laden with germs," ho declared. (Chorus of approval.) More fresh air was required in tho Chamber. Mr. Massoy proceeded to ask tho Premier if ho would follow tho usual conrse in regard to his motion, and' make a statement as to tho intention of the Government for tho rest of tho session. Ho thought it would bo bettor to allow important measures to stand over till next session rather than rush them through at tho tail-end of the session in imperfect form. (Hear, hear, and' No, no.) Two Alternatives. The Premier said his desire in moving for Monday night sittings was to avoid lato hours. Ho' thought that if mombors concentrated themselves on the work they should get away before the end of November. To do this, how-, ovor, it was oither late hours or Monday night sittings. Bills to Complete. There waa still tho Land Bill to complete, the Meikle Bill, the Endowmont Bill, tho Natiyo Land Bill (which must tako up considerable time), tho Kailway Classification and tho,Civil Servants Superannuation Bill, the Industrial Arbitration and Conciliation Amendment Bill, which would also take up somo time, and which was urgently needed; tho,Anti-Gambling Bill, likewise required to be passed; the Public Works Statement had to bo brought down, and the Flour and Potato and other Bills remained. The necessity for Monday sittings would, therefore, bo approved. Except at tho extreme' end of tho session, ho hoped it would not he necessary to sit before 7.30 p.m. 1 on Mondays. He expressed sympathy with the sick members, but was sure tho hours wero not responsible. He would bo only too glad to do all, he could to have tho. ventilation of tho House improved. {Hear, heas.) In reply to Mr. Fisher, tho Premier said he could not state how far tho Shops and Offices Act had got, but it was intended to put through a',Bill .relating to the Chincso coming into tho country. A Protest.' Mr. Herrios entered an omphatie protest regarding tho manner in which important legislation was delayed.till towards tho end of tho 'session. •Ho referred particularly to tho Native Land Bill. This Bill, ho said, was a most important ono, and should -havo been in the hands of members months ago. If such an important 1 measure was to bo brought down in tho dying days of tho session and rushed through at railway speed, ho would do 'all ho could to prevent its passing. _ It was a policy Bill, and should be in a forward position. There wero other measures which should have,been in tho hands of membors boforo this. Thoro wore the Shoddy Bill, the Flour and" Potato Bill, and tho Native Land Bill. All these wero " in nubibus," and yet there was at tho present time practically nothing on the Order Paper except privato members' Bills. , , Hasty Legislation. Mr. Massey said ho had to endorse most emphatically what Mr. Herrios had said. The' Native Land Bill was one of the most important mentioned this .session. He showed the • Government a. way out.- Let them drop some of their.other measures andjmvo the Native Land Bill at once. Ho.rcferred

to the' Endowment Bill, which", he said, it was an open. secret,' was as.dead as Julius Caesar. There was certainly no time to put through all these 'measures in a satisfactory manner this .session,, and ■ lie hoped it would • not •bo attempted. Mr. Ngata said there was not a single member who did not agrco with what.' Mr. Hcrries had said about native land legislation. It would bo advisablo to postpono tho Bill till next session and adopt, the "Taihoa" policy. The Premier: We're not going to have that. - Mr. Ngata: I would sooner have that than see the Bill rushed through at the end of the session. , Members' Opinions. Mr. Greonslado urged the import, ance of dealing with tho nativo land question .this session evon if they had to stay a fortnight or a month longer. . Mr. Baumo spoko to a similar effect, and said that a littlo extra timo should not' bo considered in having tho great question of native lands settled so far as:it could bo settled by legislation: Ho reforred to anomalies that required setting right under, the present legislation. . Mr. A. L. D. Frasor said that at the beginning of tho present year they had tho Premier, the Native Minister, and tho Attorney r General ■; addressing ineotings in different parts of the country, m their speeches theso Ministers stated that the Government recognised the importance of the native landquestion, and that one of tho first Bills to bo introduced this session would.bo a Nativb Land Bill. 'Hero, however, ■ thoy wcro at the tenth of October, and ho ventured to say that there was hot so mucli as a scratch of a pen dono in regard to a Nativo Land Bill. " Evon if wo havo to stay hero till Christmas," ho said, "I think wo ought to stay and assist tho.Government in passing such legislation." Ho went Ai to say that even if, tho 1 Houso had only a precis of tho proposed nativo land legislation, it would bo as oil to rusty machinery in assist- ! ing to pass tho land legislation now

before the Houso. There was a strong feeling in the North' Island that ,tho native lands wore to bo placed upon the market on tho optional _ tenure. Lot that onco bo known and it would greatly assist matters. The House ■ 'should not rise until it had done justice to this groat question. The Native Minister.' - Tho Nativo Minister said members need not have any fear that the Native' Lands Bill would not bo brought down this session. He referred to tho difficulty there was in drafting a measure, "such as was required, in view of the quantity of past legislation that had to bo dealt with and considered. They had to work right back to the original of affairs. Tho Houso would not be kept waiting very loag for tho Bill. The Premier. The Premier,, in replying, characterised Mr. Hcrrics's strictures in regard to tho past work of tho session and that of tho future as unwarranted. Mr. Herries had also suggested something in regard to the Nativo land legislation that the Government wero not going to do.. Tho Government had already indicated what tho procedure was to bo in regard to futuro business this session, and thoy intended to bring legislation beforo the House in tho order that thoy thought desirable. Ho pointed to tho inconsistency of tho suggestion of tho member for tho Bay of , Plenty in view of tho strong opposition ) that had been made in Committee to l tlie present laud measure. Mr. Ngata t had suggested Mint the proposed policy 1 measuro in regard to Nativo affairs should be left till next session, but "taihoa, taihoa," was not tho policy l of tho Government. (Hear, hear.) > Tho Nceita qsvt ctaoin shi'lduniiiinun 3 Tho Nativo question was important

alike. to both islands. The time had como when every member of tho Houso —outside those who looked upon Native matters as thoir particular-preserve — and indeed every member of tho ,coun-' try should take tho closest interest in tho question. He desired to correct any suggestion that vital alterations would ho made in tho Bill by tho Native Affairs Committee, as the remarks of tho member for the Bay of Plenty would have led one to suppose. As to Mr. Frasor's complaint that tho Bill had not come down earlier, ho

pointed out that the Native Lands Commission had not reported until early in August. The suggestions had been made that provisions should go in the Bill referring to timber contracts, legalising things that some peoplo had dono deliberately with the object of having them legalised afterwards —that these matters should bo dealt with in the policy bill. But the Government would do nothing of the kind. These anomalies required to be put into a "gonoral" or "washing-up" Bill at:the end of tho session. As to Mr. Horries's suggestion that the Bill could be doalt with by the Native Affairs Committee to-morrow if it camo down, ho had already stated that nothing vital could be dealt with by tho Committee on a policy measure. This was no reflection on the Committee, which was one of tho most competent the House had had. No evidence required to be taken whatever in such a case. The Endowment Bill. The Premier went on to say that the Loader of tho Opposition was labouring under a misapprehension when he said the Endowment Bill >> as killed or was as dead as Julius Caesar. Mr. Massoy: It is dead in tho' meantime, and you know it. Sir Joseph Ward replied that it was not dead... Ho went on to say that the Government had placed tho Bills . oii tho Order Paper in tho sequence in which it was intended to bring them before the House. When the Endowment Bill came before the House — Mr. Massoy: It has got to como back from the Committeo yet. The Premier made an interjection which led Mr. Massey to retort: "Well, the schedule has been knocked out of the Bill, if you will have it." The Premier: "Well, if that is so wo will put it back again." Ho went on to say that tho Government had got ovcr : ono hundred Bills which were ready—(cries of, Oh I)—but it was intended to bring them down in tho order of their importance. They did not want at tho end of the session to have a largo slaughter of the innocents. The Bills put, on tho Order Paper were thoso that had boon maturely considered. Native Lands Again. , Hefcrring to tho Native Land question ho said that the Government's desire was that it should bo'dealt with carefully and. deliberately. Mr. Hornsby: Are you compelled to 'send tho Bill to the Native Affairs Committeo? Tho Premier: It is usual to do so. Mr. Hornsby: You would not let thorn hang it up. Tho Premier: Certainly not. The Committee might bo asked to report within a week. An earnest arid honest attempt,' ho said, should be made to untio the tangled knots which were involved .in tho question of Native lands. ' Tho Government would not accept for its absolute guidance the recommendations of tho Royal Commission. They would carefully weigh them on the evidence given, but would not tako thorn entirely as tho only lines upon, which their policy should bo framed. ' Ho added that it was necessary the Nativo proposals should be submitted this session. , The motion was then passed.