House of Representative.

Dominion, Volume 1, Issue 3, 28 September 1907, Page 8

House of Representative.

>vi. AGAINST STATEMENT BY THE' PREMIER; i:\ The House of Representatives met at 2.30 pan. ■~ : - : ..;;','",,.■''■•'•^'■A^: In reply to a question'.raised'by Mr.' Fisher on .Wednesday/ rts'; to: .whether' tho Governmentagreed '^ith?'state-, monts ,that,had been. published-,;-fo-, garding compulsory'.,.scrvico:; for.' the colony, tho :• Premier, said ho had ,iaquiredinto tho matter, arid he.'.wishod to make.a statement. 'He found that at a meeting'; of the Defence.-'Council! on •September,. 12. aJrceomrhondatiori; was .made ;that the necessary, action, be taken !to carry out-the provisions of tho Defence Act Amendment'/'I9OO, clauses '4- to 11 ' inclusive.' " The Premier then detailed further proceedings that had taken place at tho Council, and continued that having decided that action be ; taken,'; the matter was referred to the Minister of Defence. The-Acting Minister of Defence (the Hon. R. M'Nab), on receiving the minute, referred the matter to him (Sir Josoph Ward) with the following memorandum: — "The Right Hon. tho Premier: For your consideration, whether the militia rolls should be taken, at any rate at the sua ports." s

Tho Hon. R. M'Nab had not had an opportunity,; op conferring with him ,(Sir ■ Jbsbph Ward):';bri.;/-tlip.!matter, and what had. booh indicated as having boon dono-'bad neither been •authorised by.,the'-Acting-Minister of Dofcrico'nor by-the'Minister'of Dcfonco. Ho" thought'it'was right ne should say. that. .. No Intention. ' Under ;tho- Clause' of 'tho'-" Act of 1900 referred to,thdfo was no power to.call put tho .militia, and. ho would like to say that the" Council had no intention of doing"anytliing of the kind. It never - had been - suggested cither by tho DefehcoyCouricil br"by tho Government. ,iHo.had.notr.had a chance of discussing the point with Colonel Robin,.-but he-thought that; in tho report"" of , tho; ■ interview "with that; , iofficer la wrong impression had been 'convoyed, and whilst .not wishing to reflect in the/ slightest'.. degree on Colonel 'Rbbihi! ;whP' jajfd" his 1 'Country's welfare at hearfr/'he-'would hero say that all mattors-of policy from the Defence Council in the future would be given out by thb' , Ministef< v as President;; of the.;,. Council of -Defence. (Hear, hear.)' This would avoid the possibility of .any misunderstandings. In this ease tho Minister for Defence had had no knowledge as to how far tho matter had gone, as in Colonel .Robin's original memorandum no suggestion was mado to call out tho militia. - :--V -. -.•.-'■-; -...>.,••.• What was Intended. :# _■ . ; What was'intonded 'was'.an'entirely different there .were .certain"-requirements in connection with the militia, and the Defence .Council-, know;j'whatjiwas the nominal v .,r0H,,/of /those/capable ;• of. talcing : part"'in,'.th'o "'milit'ia,'' at least at overy. seaport'ih the' colony. The • Defenco Council--rhight >be''bramcd if they did;not"khow'this-.-- .'But the. GovernmenUwerenot in.favour. of conscription ; nor in havingi,,the' militia, called out, ■ and neither were the De-' fenco Council favourable' toVjt.. As the report ap'p'ea're'd'.'/it' "did,'- perhaps, , ciorivey that'.'imp'res'sion';" "" ; " The Two Acts.. ,- Mr. E. M. B. Fisher, said that the power to call, out the -militia was under the. Act of ISB6, whilo the Act of- 1900.:pro,vided for the?, method of compiling the rolls. • In tho interview referred to, it. made it appear as if the. intention was to compile ,the roll arid to. call 'out. the"'militia : - later on under thpiAefc of-J.886.1.'.'*./«» '■■'■ • ' Sir Joseph Ward, said- that was intended'to bo dbrie ifi ,this;case was to ,liav'e:'the.'roll'!cbriipilou,toobtain the noriiinal.'.strength. .'suspension of a labour :■■■■■ : ' ! .... STATEMENT BY THM PREMIER. The suspension of Mr/'J. A. M'Cullough, an employee, at-tho-Addi'ngton' workshops; on allegedly, !of his having publicly criticispd.'thc Ward .'Administration, .yesterday caused some •strong'feeling ariiohg Labour members of-.Parliariierit,';-The.oiitc6qK^' , as a'depntatiori, which-waited bn,,|.hb';Promier at .noon' teT-ascertain ~tliQ;.:position; The: deputation' comprised 'the: Hons. J. T. Paul and Barr and Messrs. J.-i>'-. Barclay, t H,.-.G J . Ell, G. L'anreiis6iii«' ; |Cblviri. J jProceedings' /v>ere;spfivate] I butane -outcomo was a decision to givo the Premier a .chance' to.'make-a statement in 'tho A Question Asked. <j ' - •;i.lri~ the House'of Representatives- in tho afternoon' Mr. Ell directed the attoritioii; df the.'Acting-Minister for Railways', '(Sir...Joseph;'., : Wanl) ..to'the; matter.' /He pointed .but"; that.- Mr. M'Cullough''had-: been-in ;thb'vs'ervice of ''■.thbi'.jßailway^;Dep'a'r.tm'crit':."for twenty-seven years. IHo had a fore'.mah's, .position J re- '■■ : He'-/furtlier':,;'pqintes but that Mr. M'eullough'Uiad'a -'large family depending upon him. His suspension' was tbereforo a very serious matter. Ho-(Mr.; hear the . ; r'easpn,'. why;.;this suspension had taken place,; and whether or not the. reported reason was thecorrect one. : •The Premier Replies.--— ? ... ":The Premior .said it was. a'fact that Mr.*"'M'Ci3llbug"h was under suspension. There'was, he said, a regulation'that prevented any servant in the public employ from taking active part,in politics., That regulation had been in force, for'tWbh'ty-livb or-'thirty years, and'■applied' krall serviced (throughout the'.ibolpny./i. In .this matter had been' officially'. Teported : .to the Government by tho-head['of the Department, and, after full corisidoratibri,:the Cabinet unanimously decided that the officer in question should bo suspended.; and..called, upon to givo ■reason's why "he,.should, not .be dismissed: : ; He,.(Sir' Jo'seph)-'had noticed it. ; .was assumed this action-had been taken because the resolution moved by. Mr. M'Cullough expressed views that •were adverse -to'-the Government. That was- not; a. fact;..in any.i.sonso.. The matter was reported on" September 6, and the general manager referred.it totKo Minister for Railways on September 9. It was, referred to Cabinet on .the-samel dayji.arid,* decision was arrived at on Septdniborv23.T Importance of the Issue. Owing to tho importance of the issue, ililiuisters.had.-cpnsidered every 'aspect 'of tlio qri'esfibri'ueforo arriving at. a decision-. He (Sir Joseph), know Mr."- M'Cullough personally, and no could say that ho was in every way a" respectable arid a'good man. . : ' Mr. Tanner: Hear, hear. : The Prcmior.added that he had;been informed that rilorning that the fact of Mr. M'Cullouglf's ondoavouriiig to improve tho position of his fellow employees in-.the railway service might have - brought upon; hinq the antagonism of ; s'om'6. of tlie'responsible officers. There was, however, nothing to indi- . cato that such'was: the case, arid the only note made in reporting the matter "officially;- ; was - that 'Mr': M'Cullough tho government w-orkshopsi ?■ That was tho only memorandum biMhe subject from'tub general manager^and,showed that lie had! simply/flo'no his duty,in sending ■ "it'lp.n to , continued' tliathe had no feeling but brio'of; admiration for a nmn who tlid ' ibis jbe'iti\to assist his fcllb>VrWorkers. ' -Mf.;M'CulJpugh...hi)d ffqni'timp to time ■formed-, orip'/,;.6f,-'the' : .dblegatibns that had - corrib/'tol-.AVellington ,to'.seo the . : Ministbr;;;fqr;V.Railway§, '(Sir \ and' . fully c'bnvbrsaht/'.with the'-reqiiiremonts . .fie.reiterated : . 'his; i ..statbmbnt.Vtliat;:.'theravffia3 »io fecl-'irig:-:6ri.tlie.^i»rfrfb'tvtHo'--.GVvf!rnmeiitMn . this■ matter,;' and : ttiat if/tho. -resolution .prpposed;by; : Mr; ; .M'Ciillougb;had beerv in. the action ! takoh'..b'y; th'd';.Gb.yefrimciit:.\vp'uld. have ■ -u'e'dh'-'just ',tbb;'sa;irie J .;;;''^v; l ,'vJ/' ■ Other Cases.-V':;-:^/;V(y- ; i-. t >'&-' -. Horoininded riie'mbers-that in two cases somo time. ago,. iri.v/ivhich the officials were favourable to the Government —one in tho Telegraph Department and the other in the Colonial Secretary's Department—dismissals 'Had followed. Theso officers had been taking an active part, on £hp side of tho Government, and in both Cases tho ' strongest representations had been made that the Government should shut its eyes to the report and tho regulation, but it could not do so. ; However unpleasant tho matter, tho Government had to do its duty. If ' the Government made an exception ill

regard to one case as compared with another that was officially reported, the important question of whether a Government servant should bo allowed to tako ,part in activo political work would be raised. No member of the Administration would for a moment attempt to injure either' Mr. M'Cullough or any other officer because'his political opinions wero opposed to the Government. They had never attempted to do so, and they would not show any vindictivencss to any man who held feelings of opposition to tho Government of the day. The Administration must recogniso that, under tho regulation, they could not make fish of one and flesh of another. In tho present case the Government had done its duty quite impersonally and with r out tho slightest feeling of antipathy towards Mr. M'Cullough or iuiyono else, but no Government could do other than they had 'dono. So far no recommendation had come to him from the head of the Department in regard to Mr. M'Cullough, and until further information was before him ho -would bo anticipating events wero lie to (lb other than, give a general outline of the position in regard to the public service throughout the colony. The Government Policy. The Government did not object, to the political viows of anyone in the. public service, but officers must recognise that tho fact, of their being in the public service whilo it, in many instances, conferred distinct advantages,, also carried with it certain disabilities, and one of the latter was that they,..must/not come.in conflict, with tlie exigencies ;bf the great services throughout.the colony by taking •'an active part in political matters or propaganda. Ho road the notice of the Order-in-Council regarding interference in' politics by civil 'servants gazetted in 1873, and railway rule 18 from an Order-in-Council of March 28, 1907, originally gazetted in 1881, as follows:—" Members are. not to. take active part in : politics,-.beyond recording their - votes." There was also a provision prohibiting iino.mbcrs' of the service from serving on local bodies, because it'was recognised that a man could not. serve two master's at the one time. ■'' ' ■ ' ". A Debate Wanted. / .'." ~- Mr, Barclay moved'tlio adjournment of the House, with a view to debating the matter. The Speaker stopped him, and told him- that, ho could not do so. Mr. Barclay said'ho would take 'another opportunity of dealing with the matter'. -• ;■'■'■• ''Tlie Premier, ,in another "brief 'statement,..said tho matter was one entirely for Parliament. If Parliament decided that public officers should bo freo' ironi the regulation, then the responsibility would bo taken off the shouldprs of the Executive, as it was, thero was tlid rulo, and the Executive must seo that it was carried out/ , (Hear, hear.) LAND AND INCOME ASSESSMENT, ' ; DEBATE CONTINUED. / The Premier intimated that Clause, 16 would be amended, and permission* wa* given for it'to bo taken later. A Retrospective Glause. -At Section 17, which provides .that no disposition is to ho considered effective-so, long 1 as possession is retained, Mr. .Wilford'objeotcd to the clauso being made retrospective. He moved to have the' clause i amended. - Tho clause met with opposition from Messrs. W. Eraser and W. P. Massey (who .said the Bill affected the small .landowners almost as much as the largo). It was supported by Mr. G. Laurenson (Lyttelton)/ The Premier explained the provisions of tho section, which then passed unaltered, Mr. Wilford's amendment .having, been, defeated -on: a"division. Clauso 18' provides that "equitable owners bo liable as, if legal." Mr. Horries raised a question relating to Maori lands -, which were held ; in lease. _Ho would; like: tho words not including -native lands" included in the clause.' .Tho Premior said that the clause (lid, not -apply, to nativo lands. If, however,; Europeans purchased native lands they, of course, came under it; Beneficiary Trustees. /■/'. / ."At .Clause 19. which is- to.render trustees liable "as if beneficially entitled,. Mr. Hemes referred to tho West-Coast Settlement .Reservo, and said that a r-ommiss'ibn of inquiry had hold/that' injustice had been done tho Natives there owing to tho incidonco of tho law. -Ho lipped that a special clause would bo inserted to meot tho ease. ,The Public Trustco was the "older of the fee.simple; . Sir Joseph-.'Ward said tho clauso did not apply to tho Public Trustee. Tho position and intentions were quite dif-r ferent. It was a beneficiary who was affected. ; Mr. Lang, Mr. Massey, and Mr. Herries opposed -. Section 20, which provides that no deduction from tho value of the land'for tho purposes of tho tax shall be made in respect of mortgage money and unpaid purchase money, arid that the mortgagor should bo liable as if-ho were the owner of an unencumbered estate The clauso was retained by 40 votes to B.' ' ~"■-. Flax, Timber, and Minerals. Thero was considerable discussion on tho clauses relating to minora!, timber, and flax lands. ,' The Premier said that as the timber man had to get enough land to keep him going for four or five years', or more, and could'not at once get the full benefit of the timber, it therefore seemed 'fair l to assess standing timber at half its value. Mineral land would not be placed 'in a w r orse position than bofore:; Coal mines had been valued as' a part of tho land, and the alteration proposed by the Bill was that they should -not pay land tax, but tho'profits thereon should bo subject to income-tax. It had been proposed to treat.flax:in tho samo way as minerals, but owing to representations mado to the Government, an amendment had been mado by tho Public Accounts Committee to havo (lax .valued as a part of tho land, which wa? th« previous position Mr Field said this would prevent peoplo growing flax, and causo thom to clear what, thoy had, of it.... Mr; Stevens said tho proposals would involve taxation on tho flax during tho period of growth when it was producing no income. Ho thought a concession-of one-third. of the value should bo made in assessing green' flax. After further discussion, tho Premier, said ho was prepared to rescind tho alterations made by tho Public Accounts Committee as regards flax, and thus render it liablo to incometax, and not to land tax. Clause 22, which, as amended by tho Public Accounts Committee, exempts minerals from all land tax, but makes tho income thereupon liablo to incometax, was passed without, further amendment. Tho new sub-clnuse 1, section 16, which directs that a seller of land shall remain liable to pay land tax, until 15 per .cent, of the purchasemoney has boon paid, was debatod tor somo time. "Mr. J. A ; Hanan raised tho point that, the' clause conflicted with tho preceding one. At midnight tho Premier moved to report progress, stating it was, evident they could not complete the iiill until a Into hour. He promised to look into the point raised by Mr. Hanan. The House accordingly adjourned.