MR THOMSON'S MEETING.

Clutha Leader, Volume I, Issue 10, 10 September 1874, Page 3

MR THOMSON'S MEETING.

Mr J. W. Thomson, M.H.R. for this district addressed a meeting of his constituents in Barr's Hall here on Monday evening. In consequence of several other meetings haviogpreviously been fixed for the same evening, the attendance was not so large as it otherwise would have been. Mr J. M'Neil, M.P.C., in the unavoidable absence of his Worship the Mayor, occupied the chair, and explained the ob-ject-of the meeting. Mr Thomson, on coming forward, said his reason for meeting his constituents so soon after the Session of Assembly was twofold. 1. Because that for some time past ! there had not been the interest taken in political matters throughout the district as he should like to see, and he believed that the importance and exciting nature of the legislation of the past session would tend to stir up an interest in the affairs of the country and secure a good meeting. His other reason was that the^ whole work of the session was then fresh in his memory, and he would therefore be in a better position to speak of it. It was, he said, understood before the meeting of Parliament that no large questions would be brought up for discussion — ihat only measures of a routine nature would be dealt with, and that consequently the session would be a short one. This idea was also expressed in His Excellency's speech on opening the session. One paragraph stated " The urgent demands upon their administrative attention, consequent on the rapid progress of the Colony, and the many matters to which that progress makes prompt attention desirable, lead my advisers to think ifc expedient not to invite legislation upon questions which do not press for immediate solution." In this speech there was also a paragraph stating that papers would be presented to the House with reference to the islands of Polynesia. When, however, the motion for the abolition of the northern provinces was brought forward, the Bill regarding the islands of the Pacific was withdrawn for the present, but will in all likelihood be again brought up next session. He explained the nature of the Bill, which which was to guarantee interest of 5 per cent for 50 years upon a capital of one million to a company to trade with these islands. The idea, he said, was no doubt a very grand one, but he thought it was beyond tbe reach of the Colony to secure a monopoly of tbe commerce of these islands, seeing that the neighboring Colonies, Great Britain, America, and other countries, had also an interest in them. But tbe aim of the Government was not merely to establish commercial relations with the islands, but also to make them, as it were, Colonies of New Zealand. This idea seemed lo him a very Utopian one. In the meantime we had more than we could well do to govern the natives of our own Colony, aud it would be foolish to incur a large expenditure in what must necessarily be a vain attempt to attach these islands. No doubt the object aimed at was very desirable, but the matter would require to be taken up by the whole of the Australian Colonies, and hot by New Zealand singlehanded. If, however, ifc was again brought up in the Assembly it would have his serious consideration and best attention. As to the Forests Bill he explained that it provided for an expenditure of Llo,ooo yearly for 10 years to form State forests ; three conservators were to be brought from home and be paid large salaries, and S per cent, of the land was to be taken from the provinces to establish these forests. The revenue after 1880 from these was to go as a sinking fund on the debt of the Colony, for although we formerly did so we do not now set apart a sinking fund for our borrowed money. In 30 years the revenue was to be made to pay off the Colonial debt. To those who have had any experience with forests these provisions would seem curious. The idea had originated in this way : Mr Calcut had gone in for extensive planting of forest trees upon his Goodwood estate, and he calculated that to plant 100 acres would cost fully LiOOO, the timber of which would in 30 years be worth L 43,000. It was the revenue from cuttings from these which was to be made to provide the sinking fund during that period. In the Assembly there were numbers of gentleman who were intimately acquainted with the subject, they having been connected with saw mills, etc. Mr. Vogel's calculations Were considered to be falacious, but if the Government had proposed to deal with the matter in a practical manner, tbey would have had the support of the Assembly. They would bave been supported in a well considered Bill to prevent the destruction of our forest's : that is, to prevent unnecessary waste, and to utilise the limber. In the course of tbe discussion of the subject, Mr. Fitzherbert, who was an old, clearheaded, able politician, and a good speaker, said that the State Forests Scheme was merely a cloak to hide the real object, as the Government simply wished to get possession of tbe land. By the Bill, the Province of Wellington would be denuded of 240,000 acres of land, and Otago 500,000 acres. The cla«s ot land was not specified io the Bid : it would not necessarily be forest laud, but might be agricultural or good pastoral land, the rents of which would immediately go to the General Government. Mr. Fitzherbert said the Government wanted this land only that they might thereby be enabled to give additional security for their loans. The Government saw the Bill they' introduced would not be carried, and while the expenditure aud the appointment of conservators was allowed, the clause providing for the compulsory taking of land was abandoned. Although Mr. Yogel accepted this modification of his Bill, he felt very much annoyed that it did not pass in its entirety, and, in the reply on the debate, threatened to bring down a Bill to do away with the Provinces of the North Island altogether. He said: "If the Bill leads to anything else than the establishment and conservation of forests, it is the honorable member for the Hut who is responsible for it. To the conduct of the Provincial Government of Wellington during the recess, and to the speech of the hon. member for the Hutt the other night, may be attributed any consequences— if ; such consequences do arise — in an opposite direction to those the hon. member advocates." From the commencement of the | session there was a feeling amongst members, especially those of Auckland, that steps should at once , be taken to abolish the Northern . Provinces. One member was very assidious in sounding the j others upon the subject, and reported the result to the Government. When the

threat referred to was "given utterance to by. the Premier, tho Otago members felt very much annoyed, and immediately held a caucus to discuss the matter. Mr. Macandrew felt very strongly upon the subject, and said that the abolition of the Northern Provinces simply meant one purse for the Colony — that our land fund would be made Colonial revenue. Mr. Yogel knew all .about this meeting and the feelings there expressed, and the same day he intimated in the House that it was not the intention of the Government to prosecute the matter that session. During this time he (the speaker) believed there was a very strong undercurrent of influence being brought to bear upon the Premier to induce him to endeavor to get the Northern Provinces abolished. There was in Wellington, during the session* a Mr. Russell, from Auckland, generally known as Tom Russell. He was a very large shareholder, as well as a Director in the Bank of New Zealand, and is said to be the most influential man in Auckland. It was currently reported that he was not in Wei- , lington for nothing, and that he strongly : urged upon Mr. Yogel to do away with the | Northern Provinces. The banking .business of the Government is at present done with the Bank of New Zealand. That business is likely to increase, and if the land fund were made Colonial revenue the Government would be enabled to give better security to the bank. This; it was currently reported, was one of Mr. Russell's minions to Wellington. Notwithstanding Mr. Vogel's statement that he did not intend to proceed in the matter of the abolition of the Provinces that session, he soon brought down a resolution to the effect that it was desirable they should be abolished. This resolution included other two questions, viz , that the seat of Government should continue at Wellington, and that the compact of 1856 should be ratified by statute. Wellington was the seat of the Provincial Government, and to declare that it should iv future be the seat of the Colonial Government, was simply a catch to secure the votes of the Wellington members, as it was already the seat of the Government, and there web no proposal to disturb the present arrangement. As to the ratification of tbe compact of 1856, this was a bait to secure the votes of the members for Otago and Canterbury. As the nature of this compact might not be generally understood, he might mention tbat in the colonisation of these islands, the New Zealand Company incurred a large debt. When the Colony received a Constitution half a million of money was borrowed for the purpose of paying off this debt, and for the purchase of land from the Natives for the North Island. The Middle Island took upon themselves this debt, and it was then agreed that it should have its own land fund for all time coming. The members of the North Island, however, now seem to consider that the South then got the best of the bargain, and urge that the land fund of the South should be Colonial instead of Prdviucial revenue. If the Northern Provinces be done away with, those in the Middle Island must follow. At present the members both from the South and the North frequently rote differently upon many subjects which are brought before the House, but if the North Provinces were done away with, tbe northern members would have a common interest in abolishing those of the South, and tbey would vote in a block to attain this object. Indeed he (Mr. Thomson) was aware that since Mr. Vogel's resolution was carried, he had been strongly urged that the Bdl, to give it effect next session, should provide for abolishing. the Provinces in the South, as well as those in the North. It was not at all improbable that such will be the case, and that when the Bill is introduced it will be found to apply to the whole of tbe Colony. The land fund of the South would then be Colonial revenue, and would no doubt be largely expended in the North Island. It had been argued that by the abolition of the Provinces, a large saving would be effected, but he (Mr. Thomson), confessed he could not see it. It was proposed that a Government Agent should be appointed in the various centres of population to porform the duties at present undertaken by the Superintendents. These would have to be paid. They would be nominees and simply toadies of the.Government, and would not be likely to perform their duties so efficiently as they are now done by the Superintendents, who are locally elected, and whose actions are under the eye of the electors. Neither would much saving be effected by the doing away ofthe' Provincial Council. On a former occasion Mr Yogel stated that if the Assembly had to legislate for the whole of the Colony ifc would have to be in session ten months out of the twelve, and even during last session he admitted that in such an event the sittings of the Assembly would be very much protracted. Besides, in consequence of the members not being acquainted with local questions, these would not be so well considered and so satisfactorily legislated upon. He, Mr Thomson, was convinced that more errors would be committed, and more dissatisfaction given by the Assembly in dealing with local subjects than is the case with Provincial Councils. The expense of administration would also be greater. In consequence of the impecunious position of many of the provinces they perform their work with as tew officers as , possible, and these officers as a rule receive smaller salaries than those of the General Government. For example, the Clerk of the Provincial Council of Otago receives only L 275 per annum, while the Clerk of the House of Representatives is paid L7OO. In connection with the Assembly there was so many messengers, clerks, &c, that they seemed only to be in each other's way, and "altagether j the business was mnch more economically conducted by the Provincial than the I General Government. He believed that bur provincial institutions were capable of improvement, and that when railways and { telegraphs shall have been established I ! throughout the Colony and the great part j of the land settled upon, they may be. con- ' siderably modified,— for example, the num--1 ber of members might be reduced. ; In the meantime, however, he thought they should be let alone. , We had everything! to lose [ and nothing to gain by the change, whereas the northern provinces had everything to gain, ' and nothing to lose. Thejmpecuniosity of the northern, provinces; Had -been given as a reason why, they should; be : abolished. The reason of,this impecuniosityj was simply because the laud of the North | Island belonged to the Natives; and had all Ito be purchased from them. The Natives'

are uh willing to part with much pf their land, and thus the North Island has very little land revenue,, while _tbe customs re^ venues are eaten up by the General Gor vernmeut. Formerly the provinces received fths of their customs' to support' their police, gaols, lunatic asylums, Ac., but in 1870 Mr Yogel introduced a change whereby, in place ..of the three- eighths of customs revenue^ they would be paid a capitation of 40s. This it was agreed should be reduced by 2a yearly until it reached 30s, at which it Was to remain permanently. Notwithstanding this arrangement the Premier the following year—in 1871 — reduced the capitation at one sweep to 15s. It was then, distinctly stated in the House by the Northern members that this sum was insufficient for the carrying. on of their functions. Such has proved to be the case, and hence they desire to get holdot the land revenue ol the South to be applied towards the maintenance of their institutions. A great portion of the land in the north had been sold at or under 5s per acre, and it did not appear right that gentlemen who have secured large blocks at that figure should now seek our land revenue for the' improvement of tbeir estates. The reason of Mr Vogel's desire for the abolition of the provinces is not difficult' to see. At first our loans were readily floated at LlO2, but now they have gradually dwindled down to 95-9. This shows that iv the London market our securities are not considered so good as they formerly were*. Mr Yogel says : — " We have asked and are asking large sums to improve our j resources from the hoarded capital of those who mostly have no other interest in the country; and we must not by unwarrantable demands excite their alarm" Thus , if the provinces be abolished and the land' fund be seized by the Colony this could be given as security for our loans in addition to the consolidated revenue In his abolition resolution Mr Yogel was supported by the runholders to a man. This, was rather i a curious circumstance, and it may be asked why were they so unanimous ? The answer is, because the present Government has all along been favorable to runholders and Capitalists. They have always either opposed or treated with indifference the , liberal land laws which have been sent up from the provinces. The runholders thus imagine they will have better times when the land is placed under the control of the General Government than when they have to deal with the local Provincial Governments. But whatever may be the leanings of the Government in power it is not possible that the affairs of the country can be so well administered from one centre as they can be by local authorities. The ad* ministration of the confiscated lands in the North Island was in the hands of the Colonial Government, and he (Mr Thomson) had been informed that 150,000 acres of these had been sold to Mr Russell and others at 3s 6d per acre. It is therefore not surprising that the runholders supported Mr Vogel's resolution, and the manner in which these confiscated lands are administered may indicate what we may expect should our lands be handed over to the General Government. After Mr Vogel's resolution was carried, Mr, Fitzherbert brought forward a motion to the effect that it was not desirable that the proposed constitutional change should take place until the various constituencies had had an opportunity of expressing an opinion upon the same. To this it was argued that this change had been before the, country for many years ; in fact from the days cf the Constitution itself. This, however, was not a fair argument. It is true no doubt that the question of provincialism has been before the public for many years, but the question of abolishing it waa not prominently before the constituencies when the present Parliament was formed. The members of the present Parliament were elected principally from the views they held regarding the policy of public worksl The Parliament had only another session to run. It would be ridiculous in a moribund parliament to pass an Act abolishing provincialism especially as during the existence of the Parliament there had been little ex^ pression of opinion throughout the country on that subject. He himself was not elected because he held any particular views upon this question. He was not afraid, however, to appear before his constituents upon this question. He therefore supported Mr. Fitzherbert's resolution.

Mr. Thomson next referred to the Otago Land Bill. The Bill was introduced by Mr. Reid in an early part of the session. Its chief object was to increase the area that might be opened up under deferred payments from 30,000 to 100,000 acres iv one year. There were also other important provisions to which he-. would not refer. The Bill passed through the House of Representatives without opposition. The Legislative Council, which consists largely of runholders, threw out the Bill on account of the clause mentioned. .Another Bill was subsequently introduced, leaving out this objectionable clause. He might mention, however, that this latter bill was advantageous. It provided that the deferred payment land might consist of sections scattered over a Hundred. ; This; would have the effect of preventing capitalists stepping in and purchasing the land in large blocks, and would also have the effect of enabling persons who had entered on the possession of deferred payment land to increase the size of their properties by purchases; Regarding the Clutha River Trust Bill, a copy of, which had appeared in the Cluxha.Lba.der, he might state that" shortly after he reached Wellington he learned that the Government intended introducing a-Bill dealing with the reserves set aside by. the Provincial Council for education and benevolent purposes, and that the only thing they intended doing with the Clutha Reserve was to put it back into its old posi tion ot Waste Lands of the Crown. He therefore resolved, to introduce a Bill himself dealing, with, this reserves He had not much hope of carrying it; but still he succeeded' ib getting it passed through both Houses of the Legislature. The Bill was very simple. It provided that the Provincial Council should the Board by .Ordinance. The rents arising from the lands should then go to the Board. In the event of any portion of the lands being sold, the money was to be ; invested in Government securities ?ibr/ the purposes of the Trust. -\z.4 !^< i " ': ; In conclusion, he ..(-stated $hati.4ie'f had .voted and acted in the way; which^he^cpniv sidered was best^fitted, topromotei their, interests. , A. ' ipf the. Legislafure; was in one respefet like a judge iv ;]&eJß^#d f vote on one side of a question. 1 : -A ; BrfbVre:8 r fbVre : were always two- eider to a-qu^ti^ hie

I ■ '" ' •■/...■ i 1 r - , ■ z™ j must necessarily be opposed ; to jtome per- - : ," i sons.. H« thought, however, that he repre- i seated the views of a large j&ody of the electors. He thanked them fbr the attentive hearing Iheyj had ( f . | Several questions were asked, to .which ! Mr. Thomson gaye satisfactory ' aniiweMl ,' • ,'* 1 Mr. Craraond then proposed the follow- ; ing reaolution:— That this meeting, haying heard Mr. Thomson's explanation of ,the l proceedings of the Session of Assembly jus* closed, desire to. thank him for his address, '*' approve of the policy he ad vocated upon the question of the abolition of the northern provinces, and renew their confidence in him as their representative, v Mr Robertson' seconded the resolutfbn which was carried unanimously and amidst applause. , . „■. '". Mr Thomson felt graMC- that his .views had been endorsed by K^constif vents, and thanked them for their : renewed ' confidence. .". • .. ; .- r r ., r „;:) ' A vote of thanks to the. Chairman s terminated the proceedings. .■ '\-.