PARLIAMENT Government Will Introduce Licensing Bill

Press, Volume XCIX, Issue 29317, 23 September 1960, Page 16

PARLIAMENT Government Will Introduce Licensing Bill

(Aaw Zealand Prase Association) WELLINGTON, September 22. The Government will introduce a Licensing Bill this session. The Prime Minister (Mr Nash) said this in the House of Representatives tonight at the end of a two-hour debate on the report of the Parliamentary Select Committee on Licensing Reform. Mr Nash did not give any details of the bill, nor say whether it would provide for reform of the licensing laws. Earlier, Opposition speakers had criticised the Government’s failure to introduce a bill implementing at least some of the committee’s recommendations. The Deputy-Leader of the Opposition (Mr Marshall) promised that the National Party I would reform the licensing laws if it became ’ the Government. Mr Marshall also promised a free vote for National members on any ] licensing bill introduced this session.

The Licensing Reform Committee’s chairman (Mr R. A. Keeling) said there was never any question of party politics in the committee’s discussions. The committee’s aim was to achieve decent, sensible, and comfortable drinking. "The keynotes in the committee’s discussions were moderation and realism," Mr Keeling said. "While recognising the evils of excessive drinking, the committee considered the consumption of liquor was a norma] and respectable activity.” Mr Keeling said he felt the present licensing laws reflected a reaction against drinking conditions in the “frontier community” of New Zealand last century. "But everybody would concede, I think, that different conditions exist today,” he said. “Faced with this, the committee considered it its duty to make recommendations that would bring our licensing laws into line with what the people of New Zealand consider reasonable." Not all members of the committee agreed with all the recommendations, but they were in general agreement on the committee’s aim, Mr Keeling said. The committee suggested some immediate reforms and recommended further inquiry into other matters. Legislation “1 believe the Government should bring in only legislation on this very important question which Parliament as a whole decides it should bring in," he said. It had been laid down since 1881 that the privilege of selling liquor carried with it the responsibility for making provision for the needs of travellers, and the principle seemed just as sound today. The committee at no stage was concerned for the luxury accommodation of the wealthy but for what the ordinary New Zealander, travelling or on holiday, could reasonably expect It was considered that the powers of the Licensing Control Commission should be strengthened. and that it should investigate certain matters in conjunction with interested parties. He considered that to be one of the most important things in the report. He hoped it was one to which immediate effect would be given, and that it would lead to better accommodation and more civilised drinking conditions. In Victoria and New South Wales there were central licensing authorities with wide powers, and the effect was beneficial to the public Commission’s Powers “The Licensing Control Commission is handicapped by its lack of powers. It is recommended that it should have the powers of its Australian counterparts,'* said Mr Keeling. Reports from such a commission would make the House much more able to carry out reforms. He suggested that dubs, which were developing off sales rather than catering for members, should, with the commission, work out something that was reasonable and acceptable to all parties. “The public are entitled to adequate safeguards, and. we have made it clear that there will be the right of appeal to the Supreme Court over any decisions of the commission," said Mr Keeling. “It was the question of liquor with meals that made the necessity for this committee to be set up,” said Mr Keeling. There was no evidence against it, and the committee was left in no doubt that that the present law was out of line with public opinion. At present consumption of liquor with meals in a hotel after 8 o’clock was prohibited, and it was not lawful in restaurants at all. At one time there was very little drinking with meals at all tn New Zealand, but in the last 10 years there had been a change in the customs of an appreciable section of the public. "There is an even stronger case for hotels to be allowed to supply liquor with meals after 8 o'clock, up to 1130, with half an hour to consume drinks already purchased." said Mr Keeling. Mr Algie Critical Mr R. M Algie (Opposition, Remuera), a member of the committee, said he did not think the Government would introduce a licensing reform bill this year. "I venture to think that there is no bill in preparation at present If there is, then this debate is a complete and unadulterated waste of time. What we should be arguing Is the contents of a bill If there’s no bill, the Government is wasting our time and bitterly disappointing the public,” Mr Algie said. “In 1957 the National Party promised briefly, clearly, precisely and specifically to take immediate steps to deal with licensing reform. We win promise that again in a few weeks,” he added. “We are still waiting for something to emerge from the Cabinet, and I can’t resist the feeling we are not going to get it this year. If it is not there now, I think tt is too late to prepare a bill on a widely contro-

versial topic within four weeks of the end of the session and expect us to debate it,” he said. The consolidation of the law was of some importance, and the Government had been urged to tackle it as soon as it could. It was difficult to get a law of that kind successfully enforced unless it had two modifications, said Mr Algie. One was that it must express the existing needs and aspirations of the people and must not be too static. The other was that its breaches must be condemned by public opinion and the enforcement of it must have the public support. “We have tried to liberalise the law and have added to the strengthening of the system, first, by giving the Licensing Control Commission more power, and second, we have altered the system of penalties to make sure the penalties we have will be enforced.” Suggested Procedure Mr N. J. King (Government, Waitemataj, another member of the committee, felt the report would have to be considered in three parts:—(l) requiring immediate action by legislation; (2) requiring action by the Government itself; (3) requiring investigation and a considered report by the Licensing Control Commission either to the Government or to Parliament itself. Mr King suggested that the licensing of restaurants could best be left until after the value and effect of reforms had been seen. It was important that early steps should be taken to extend the powers of the Licensing ■ Control Commission, and it was desirable that legislation be enacted with regard to district licensing committees, he said. Mr King said he thought the committee’s i ecommendation that licensing committees be abolished was sound. If there was to be alteration to the licensing laws there must be alterations to the administrative structure. Only good could come from the administrative changes recommended in the report. Mr King said he had been impressed by the submissions to the committee by the New Zealand Alliance on the effects of liquor. “I believe we should do what we can to urge people to drink in moderation and to realise the dangers of alcohol. I welcome the committee’s recommendation of continuous education and research into the use and effects of alcohol,” he added. Mr Marehull’s View The Deputy-Leader of the Opposition said there would be general agreement of the basic principle that reform of the law should be directed to the minimising of excessive drinking. It was better to drink wtih a mer.l than to drink for the sake of drinking. The transport and liquor laws should ensure that “if you drink you don’t drive.” said Mr Marshall. More responsible public opinion should respect abstinence, demand moderation, and condemn excess. A drunken person should not be regarded as a figure of fun, but as an object of pity or contempt, said Mr Marshall. “It is socially wrong to press drinks on people who do not want them or who have had enough, or to press drinks on guests without providing an alternative for those who do not want to drink,” said Mr Marshall. These things could not be enforced by law, but could grow from a reform of the law. “We should not pick ut recommendations that suit our point of view and reject the rest We should take a balanced point of view of the whole problem,” said Mr Marshall. The National Party in 1957 had said that it would attempt to reform the licensing laws from a balanced point of view, and it would put that policy into operation if elected on November 26. “We reserve the right of our members to have a free vote on matters of conscience, and if the Government introduces legislation thia session we will see that in operation. We hope to see the Labour Party has a free vote on matters of conscience,” said Mr Marshall. Four Pointe Opposed Mr M. A. Connelly (Government, Riccarton). a member of the committee, said that though he was not a. prohibitionist, he thought the House should consider the views of those who were. Mr Connelly said he disagreed with four recommendations in the committee’s report. These were: —the abolition of no-licence areas; the abolition of site polls in licensing districts and licensing trust districts; the introduction of barmaids; and the sale of liquor in restaurants. u, Connally said that many prominent women's organisations had passed resolutions strongly opposing the employment of barmaids. “When large and significantly representative women's organisations express their views in this way I believe they should be respected,” he said.

Mr J. A. McL. Roy (Opposition, Clutha) said the House was discussing something as a report which should have been disnirsed as a bill. Mr Roy said he had been called a “wowser” and many other names, but they meant nothing at all. "I have heard a lot of idle talk about social drinking, and I have seen many examples of broken homes, neglected children, and road accidents, and seen too many examples of this social drinking,” he said. “I have been concerned over the years at the strength of the licensing trade and the lengths the trade will go to camouflage their wares for the pursuit of social drinking. “The press, too, seems to be more concerned with the profits they gather from the trade than they are for the welfare of that section of the community which does not have the strength of character to resist this temptation.” Mr Roy said that if the Government did bring down legislation to the detriment of the country, even if it was supported by his own party, it would not deter him from voting against it. The Minister of Industries and Commerce (Mr Holloway) said that political parties on both sides had dodged the issue of changing the licensing laws. He did not think anything could be gained by either side in making charges of political manoeuvring. Mr Holloway hoped there would be an attempt to change the licensing laws of the country, as the original law, written in 1908, had got itself into such a position that few could understand it. “Rather than consolidate or amend the law it would be best

to scrap it and rewrite it. But I don’t think it can be done this year.” he said. New Zeeland was among the highest consumers of alcohol in the world, but he doubted if there was a country outside India which placed more restrictions on the consumption of alcohol. "The result is that we have a considerable amount of drunkenness in New Zealand. We have it every night in the streets of dur cities and that proves the law is ineffective and should be changed,” said Mr Holloway. Many of the provisions written into the licensing legislation were disobeyed every night by responsible citizens, and many restrictions operated in running hotels were broken every- day of the year they were open in hundreds of hotels throughout the country, he said. '“The report suggests that there should be more power for the commission,” said Mr Holloway. “I believe that more power must be given eventually. The commission could be given the power to control the licensing trade. It is in existence to make profits, and yet the commission has no authority to decide what profits are going to be made by the trade.” It should control the prices of liquor and the tariffs to be charged. Small anomalies could be changed without making it easy for juveniles to get liquor. A proper law would trust the people to behave reasonably, which would result in less drunkenness, provide more protection for minors, assist the police to carry out their work more efficiently, give greater reasonable freedom to the individual, and help the hotel industry to provide the travelling public with the facilities required.

Finance Regulations Extension

(New ZeoioM Press Association) WELLINGTON. September 22. An Emergency Regulations Amendment Bill, one of the annual "washing up” measures, was introduced in the House of Representatives today. It extends tar another year the Finance Emergency Regulations 1940 (No. 2). the only operative war-time emergency regulations. Continuation of the regulations is considered necessary by the Government because they provide the legal basis for exchange control.

Mr W. H. Gillespie (Opposition. Hurunui) said he was convinced that local government was in better shape to deal with its problems than in 1944. “I hope that the present structure will not be interferred with, at least not in the near future. I don’t think it can’t be improved. I don't want to see voluntary unpaid service done away with.” said Mr Gillespie. “I can never understand why a small local body should amalgamate with a larger local body if it is an efficient one. If it is close to the people it serves, then it can give better service than if it is removed from that closeness with the people.” said Mr Gillespie Work Of Ad Hoc Bodies

Not such good work would have been done if the control of ad hoc bodies had been in the hands of territorial bodies. There were complaints about the recommendation that all ad hoc bodies should be brought under the control of the Local Government Commission. He thought that if it were done, then all should come under the commission. He supported the recommendation that