LICENSING BILL.

Press, Volume LXIII, Issue 19161, 18 November 1927, Page 11

LICENSING BILL.

MAIN CLAUSES LOST. MR COATES DISAPPOINTED. MEASURE WITHDRAWN FOR THE PRESENT. [THE PBBSS Speclsl S«rrle«.] WELLINGTON, November 17. The Prohibitionists achieved a partial success in the House of Representatives this morning when they used a substantial majority to amend the Licensing Act Amendment Bill so that it conformed to the three main planks of their platform—no extension of the period between polls, a two issue ballot paper, and a bare majority decision. Their success on the majority question proved their undoing, for the Prime Minister intimated that he could not accept the amendment, and when it was forced on- him in a division he obtained leajve to report progress on the Bill to enable him to consider the position. Mr Ooates emphasised that some percentage was essential, and he intimated that he would confer with 'the Leaders of the contending Parties in the House to see if some compromise could be arranged. It was 4.30 a.m. before the House rose. The short title to the Bill was passed at 1.20 a.m., and issue was then joined on the first of the contentious clauses, that providing for the licensing polls being taken at every alternato General Election. Period Between Polls. • An amendment moved by the Leader of the Opposition (Sir H. E. Holland) that the clause be referred back to the Government, and that the question as to the period between polls bo submitted for the determination of the electors at the next election was ruled out of order by the chairman of the Committee (Mr F. F. Hockly) on the ground that it was a direct negative. After a short debate a division was taken on the clause, which was defeated by 51 votes to 23, the effect of the decision being that polls will continue to be held at every General Election as heretofore. The division was as follows : Por the Clause (23). Coates Mason, J. Eliott Ngata Field Pomare Glenn Rolleston, J. 0. Henara Seddon Horn Smith Hudson * Uru Hunter Veitch Luke Ward Lysnar Wilford McLeod Williams Macmillan Against (51). Anderson Lee, J. A. Armstrong Linklater Atmore McCombs Bartram McKeen Bellringer McLennan. Bitchener Martin Buddo Mason, H. G. R., Burnett Nash Campbell Nosworifliy Dickie Parry Dickson, J. McC. Potter Dickson, J. S Ransom Forbes Reid Fraser Rhodes Girling Rolleston, F. J. Hamilton, J. R. Savago Hamilton, A. Sidey Harris Stewart Hawken Sullivan Holland, H. Sykes Holland, H. 3D. Tapley Howard Waite Jones, D. Walter Jones, W. Wright Kyle Young Lee, E. P. "The result of the division is very unpleasant to me," remarked the Prime Minister later, "but I have to put up with it, in deference to one or two other points in the Bill." Two Issues Rejected. Next to be debated was the clause which provided that only two issues— Continuance and Prohibition—should be submitted to the electors. The House was some time in coming to the vital division. An amendment, moved by Mr J. G-. Eliott (Oroua), that the question of Corporate Control should be added to the ballot-paper, was defeated on the voices without discussion. The Leader of the Opposition had another amendment, providing for the submission of the three issues, the electors to indicate preferences for the various proposals. He made it clear that the amendment was designed solely with the object of obtaining a vote on the question of preferential voting, and he forced the issue to a division, the amendment being defeated by 55 votes to 20. For the Amendment (20). Atmore Lee, J. A. Bartram Luke Buddo Parry Dickson, J. S. Rolleston, J. C. Eliott Savage Field Seddon Forbes Smith Glenn Veitch' Holland, H. E. Ward Horn Wilford Against the Amendment (55). Anderson McKeen Armstrong McLennan Bell McLeod Bellringer Macmillan Bitchener Martin Burnett Mason, H. G. R. Campbell Mason, J. Coates Nash Dickie Ngata Dickson, J- McC. Nosworthv Fraser Pomare Girling Potter Hamilton, A. Ransom Hamilton, J. R. Reid Harris Rhodes Hawken Rolleston, F. J. Henare Sidey Holland, H. Stewart Howard Sullivan Hudson Sykes Hunter Tapley Jones, D. Uru Jones, W. Walter Kyle Waite Lee, E. P. Williams Linklater Wright Lysnar Young McCombs "This is like a Maori race meeting," said Mr W. E. Parry (Auckland Central), in commenting on an amendment moved by Mr H. L. Tapley (Dunedin North), to the effect that the present three issues should be submitted to the electors, and that at next election there should also be taken a poll on <he question as to whether after that the ballot-paper should be limited to Con: tinuanre and Prohibition. The Prime Minister told Mr Tnpley that he could not accept the amendment, but Li spite of this Mr Tapley pressed

for a diivision. While the bells were ringing, he changed his mind, and the amendment was rejected on the voices. The ballot paper issue wns then put, and the clause in the Bill providing for only the two questions was carried by 53 votes to 21. The division was: Tor the Clause (53). Anderson McKeen Armstrong McLennan Bellringer McLeod Bitchener Macmillan Burnett Martin Coates Mason, J. Dickie Mason, H. G. R Dickson, J. McC. Ngata Fraser Nosworthv Girling Pomare Hamilton, A. Potter Hamilton, J. R. Ransom Harris Reid Hawken Rhodes llonarc Rolleston, F. J. Holland, H. Sidey Howard Stewart Hudson Sullivan Hunter Sykes Jones, D. Tapley Jones, W. Uru Kyle Waite Leo. E. P. Walter Linklater Williams Luke Wright Lysnar Young McCombs Against tho Clause (21). Atmore Horn Bartram Lee, J. A. Bell Parry Buddo Rolleston, .J. C. Campbell Savage Dickson, J. S. Seddon Eliott Smith Field Veitch Forbes Ward! Glenn Wilford Holland, H. E. Bare Majority. The end of the Bill, so far as the sitting was concerned, came when Mr McCombs was successful in carrying a bare majority amendment against the proposal in the Bill that Prohibition, to be carried, must be endorsed by fifty-five per cent, of the electors. There was little discussion on the amendment, which the Prime Minister said he could not accent. "The Bill was drafted with a definite policy," he said. "I have already lost one clause, an important one. This amendment, if it is carried), will leave me with a bare majority, without a safeguard, and a safeguard is essential and vital to the Bill." The amendment was carried by 43 votes to 32, the voting being: For Bare Majority (43). Anderson McCombs Armstrong McKeen Bartram Martin, Bellringer Mason,,H. G. R Bitchener Ngata Buddo Nosworthy Burnett Parry Dickie Potter Dickson, J. McC Ransom Fraser Reid Girling Rolleston, F. J. Hamilton, A. Savage Hamilton, J. R. Sidey Harris Stewart Holland, H. Sullivan Holland, H. E. Sykes Howard Tapley Jones, D.< Waite Jonesj W. Walter Kyle Wright Lee, E. P. Young Lee, J. A. Against Bare Majority (32). • Atmore Lysnar Bell McLennan Campbell McLeod Coates Macmillan . Dickson, J. S. Mason, J. Eliott f Nash Field Pomare Forbes Rhodles Glenn Rolleston, J. G. Hawken Seddon Henare Smith . Horn Uru Hudson Veitch Hunter Ward Linklater Wilford Luke Williams Responsibility Declined.

Immediately the result of the division was announced the Prime Minister moved that progress on the Bill be reported. . "My reason for doing this is that I desire to take time to consider the position," he said. "I am not prepared to take the responsibility of the amendments that have been carried to the Bill as brought down by myself. The Bill was introduced to Parliament, and Parliament was asked to consider it. The amendments carried and the alterations that have taken place have vitally ,changed the whole character of the proposals introduced. I think I was entitled to more consideration in that respect. If the Committee decide not to give me progress, I take it I will be relieved in regard to any responsibility as to the amendments. (Hear, hear.) If progress is reported, I am prepared to consider the question of the main point at issue, the question of the majority. At the moment I am unable to say what majority or percentage of majority would be a fair thing. I take it members understand my position quite well. The result is a disappointment to me. My responsibility must cease when the Committee takes the Bill out of my hands. (Hear, hear.) I move that progress be reported." The division was about to be taken when the Minister for Health raised a point of order. In accordance with the Standing Orders, he had to speak retaining his seat and with his head covered. A hat was not handy, and a Departmental report was substituted. The Minister asked -whether the Bill would not disapepar from the Order Paper altogether unless the Prime Minister's motion contained the additional words, "and ask leave to sit again." If these words were added, the Bill would come back to the House in due course. "Give me a hat," demanded the Prime Minister, when a member passed over a sheet of newspaper. A cap was supplied, and adjusting it at a Bornewhat rakish angle, Mr Coates replied to the point raised. "I have asked to report progress, and as Leader of the House I can restore the measure to the Order Paper," he said- "It is possible negotiations may take place, and that I can get the leaders of the contending parties in the House to arrive at some satisfactory conclusion. 1 take it that I can place the Bill on the Order Paper in the same position as it is now at some time convenient to myself." Prime Minister's Promise.

Mr McCombs: Does it mean that it progress is agreed to the House will have an opportunity of deciding the matter. By . big majority the House has decided what it lias decided. Is the Prime Minister asking the House to surrender its decision to his will in the matter, and is he asking the House to place itself in the position that if he does not want to go on with the Bill that will be the end of it? Mr Wilford: It is his Bill. The Prime Minister: The position, I take it, is that I have introduced a Bill into Parliament, and several radical changes have been made. I cannot accept the responsibility for the amendments, and I am asking the Committee to take that responsibility. (Hear, hear.) If the motion to report progress goes against me, Parliament accepts the responsibility. If the House grants progress, then it is in my hands. Mr McCombs: You will be master of the situation 1 ? t The Prime Minister: Yes. Mr Wilford: It is his Bill. Mr McCombat It is the Hons&'a BilL

Mr Wilford: Nothing of the kind; H is his Bill. The Prime Minister: What I cannot accept the responsibility for is the majority question, and I want the leaders of the two sides to meet me. I don't want to be left in the position of not being able to put the Bill on the Order Paper again and of bringing it before the Committee agaiu. The chairman ruled that if progress was reported without a request for leave to sit again the Bill would go off the Order Paper. There was nothing to prevent the Prime Minister from reintroducing the Bill. The Prime Minister: To bo quite candid, I have not looked up tho point. I don't want members to think that I am trying to dish them in the eye. After negotiations I may desire to bring on the Bill in exactly the same position as it is now. Mr McCombs: Tho motion to report progress kills the Bill if it is carried. The Prime Minister said that to prevent any misconception he would agroe to seeking leave to sit again. In this form tho motion was put and carried by 41 votes to 34, the division list being as follows: For the motion (41). Anderson Luke Armstrong Lysnar Atmoro McLennan Bartram • McLeod Bell Macmillan Buddo J. Mason Campbell Nash Coates Ngata Dickson, J. S. Parry Eliott Pomare Field Rhodes Forbes Eolleston, J. 0. Glenn Savage Hawken Seddon Henare. Smith Holland, H. E. Uru Horn Veitch Hudson Ward Hunter "Williams Lee, J. A. Wilford Linklater Against the Motion (34). Bellringer McKeen Bitchener Martin Burnett Mason, H. G. E. Dickie Nosworthy Dickson, J. McC, Potter Fraser Ransom Girling Reid Hamilton, A. Rolleston, F. J. Hamilton, J. R. Sidey Harris Stewart Holland, H. Sullivan Howard Syke's Jones, D. Tapley Jones, W. Waite Kyle Walter Lee, E. P. _ Wright McCombs ' Young The House rose at 4.30 a.m.