BUDGET DEBATE ENDED.

Press, Volume LX, Issue 18147, 9 August 1924, Page 13

BUDGET DEBATE ENDED.

THE LAST OF THE SPEAKERS. MR. MASSEY'S REPLY. (iBHIDGBD PBKSS ASSOCIATION EEFOET.) "WELLINGTON, August 8. In the House of Representatives this afternoon the debate on the Financial Statement was resumed by Mr L. Mellvridc, who said it was not tree that the Labour Party was indifferent to the position of the mat: on the land. No section of the House fought more strenuously to improve the conditions of real farmers than the members of the Labour Party. The desolate lands, ruined lives, and hopeless future of a. great many farmers were not the result of the Labour Party's actions or poljcy. They were the result of the policy and administration of the Reform Government, and the position was all the more deplorable because it had been created at a time when the country was enjoying remarkable prosperity. He spoke of high shipping freights, and said that when the Labour Party, came into power farmer? would be greatly assisted by a State shipping service. Mr Ransom deplored the absence of a land policy in the Budget. Mr W« J. Girling (Wairau) advocated modifications of the Customs tariff in the interests of local industries. Mr A. J. Murdoch (Marsden) said the clamant needs of farmers were cheap money, cheap fertilisers, and cheap freights. Our Home markets should also be more widely developed. The Hon. J. G. Coates said the Highways Board had not committed itself to any expenditure on the AucklandHolensville road. He pointed out that no Highways Board had yet gazetted a road through a borough a highway. He agreed that the Highways Board should act in conjunction with local authorities. No satisfactory work could be done until Boards had power to secure the registration of motor-cars in the North and South Islands, so that the revenue therefrom could be properly allocated. Referring to the State Advances Department, he said he thought it had done great work, but there was a disposition among some people to look to the Government to raise money to give assistance in every little difficulty. This of course was not practicable, since there must be a limit to the financial provision that could be made. The Minister explained the procedure ot" the Audit Office, which had drawn attention to certain matters quoted by the member for Dunedin North as instances of bad administration. Mr Coates said official methods recently introduced afforded a simple and effective business control of Departmental expenditure. Replying to the Leader of the Opposition's complaint that the capital cost of the railways was not properly shown, he quoted figures from the Budget and Departmental returns which, he contended, showed that the Budget figures were correct. He controverted the statement by Mr Masters that railway expenditure last year had increased by £206,000, quoting official returns showing that the expenditure was actually £98,000 less, fipeaking of taxation and the means of raising money for public works, the Minister : said it had been suggested that authority should be given for bond issues for this purpose. He warned the House against the danger of such issues Such bonds could not be confined within New Zealand? They were sure to be taken up by outside investors, and if there should be a rush to cast the bonds, their value would be force,! down. .A bond issue, thorefore, would be dangerous to the country if adopted for this purpose. The best thing for New Zealand to do was to pay casn for what it got done, and S9 get the work carried out at cost P"«3. Complaint had been made that Public Works contracts were let to foreigners. The Minister replied that the jiast Coast railway, was let to a British firm. The Government also favoured cooperative contract work as far as possible. The interests of employees m all cases were conserved by the Government. Men mußt be pAid award rates of wages, and proper Iwusing and other facilities must be provided in all cases. Mr Coates pointed out that co-operative men had no time for day work. They could, by energy and enterprise, make more out of contracts, and 1 the work was finished more expeditiously. Touching on telephones, the Minister said 11,000 new connexions were marlo last year, and the charges to 75 lier cent, cf the rural subscribers were less than in the previous year. In conclusion, he contended that it was most important that the expenditure of loan moneys must be on works or enterprises that could show remunerative returns. He mentioned the Dominion's hydro-electric undertakings, which, when in full operation, would prove profitable. The Hon. J. A. Hanan (Invercargill) stressed ttie necessity for a Public Accounts Committee, which would be able to explain every item of expenditure, Under the present system the House had to accept what was put before it without question. It was tod perfunctory in dealing with finance. Mr J. A. Nash (Palmerston) deprecated the. issue of the J anonyraous circular making statements concerning the Prime Minister which he (Mr Nash) alleged were utterly untrue. It was a disgrace that politics in New Zealand had sunk so low that such a circular could be issued. PRIME MINISTER'S REPLY. At 10.30 p.m. the Prime Minister rose to reply. He said the Budget had come through the debate sound and unscathed; indeed, so little had it suffered by criticism that his reply was only a matter of courtesy, not a matter of necessity. It had been said that the Budget disclosed no policy. That was not so, for it disclosed a great policy quite clearly. That policy was to keep the country prosperous. Fault had been found that the Budget had a surplus. That was an unusual fault to find. He did not think we should always aim at showing a big surplus every year, but this was a good surplus, and he had no doubt that those members who had adversely criticised it shortly be swarming round him to get some of the money spent in their districts. It had been said that the Budget was inaccurate. It was strictly accurate, with one exception. There -was one slight mistake in the title of a Bill mentioned in the document. Speaking of the general financial methods of the Government,. he mentioned the audit of Government stores established by the' Government, and the placing of departmental balance sheets before Parliament. These . two things alone were going to have an important effect on public expenditure. He then proceeded to discuss the terms on which recent loans had been raised, which was another proof of the prosperity of the ! country and people. He knew there

were exceptions, but the general position was that the people and the country were prosperous.

He defended the setting up of the Taxation Commission, which, he said, called attention to the injustices connected with the land tax. There were injustices. He did not say he was propared to repeal the land tax, but he would see tuat the producers were not again subjected to double taxation. He was not bound to accept all the recomi mendations of the Commission, but he had no doubt that as a result of its recommendations they would be able to make some valuable improvements. He maintained that no bad bargain had been made in the funding of our debt to Britain. We had got exactly the same terms as Australia. The funding was arranged at 6 per cent., which included the sinking fund. Later on lie anticipated money would become cheaper, when it would be the duty of those in charge of the financial affairs of the Dominion to raise a loan, say of 4 per cent., and pay off the debt of 26 millions to Britain. That was his intention from the first, as it would not be adding to the indebtedness of the country. It has been said that the Budget did not disclose the position of the State's Bank of New Zealand shares. The position was fully set out in the Investments Account, and the country had made a very good bargain in that connexion. The first declaration of policy in the Budget was the reduction of taxation. No country could prosper if taxation was too heavy, and it was too heavy in New Zealand. Previous reduction* had led to the diminution" of unemployment until it had practically disappeared. Taxation would be further reduced this year. Cabinet had not yet decided in what direction the reduction would be, but the right thing would be done.. Then Agricultural Colleges were to be established, ae it had been brought home to the Government tiiat a more scientific training must be given to young farmers. He thought there should be two colleges in the North Island, but on that point the Government had not yet made up its mind. The next item of policy was legislation in connexion with the moratorium, which would help to save those men who could be saved. At the same time he had reason to believe that trouble in connexion with mortgages was more imaginary than real. Then there was the proposal to make widows' bonuses permanent, and the proposal to provide a f eeond cruiser, which would be something in the way of making our proper contribution to the British Navy, which we were not doing now. As to land settlement, he contended that the Government was doing very well, and, in conjunction with immigration, he hoped to be able to do a great deal more before long. There were other items of policy which had been more than once announced. They were pushing on with public works, railways, and hydro-elec-tric works, drainage, and irrigation. His desire was to see these works completed and put in a profit-bearing position. That policy. was all set out in the Budget, and he could not ask for a bettor policy on which to go to the country.

The Prime Minister then proceeded to refer to the details of the Budget, with a view to showing that its figures coincided exactly with the figures of the Auditor-General, which, he contended, was a complete answer to Mr Wilford's charges of arithmetical inaccuracies. He quoted correspondence which passed between the secretary of the Treasury and tho Auditor-General on the subject of the accuracy of the figures in the Budgot relating to the public debt. The secretary of tho Treasury asked that these figures be examined with the object of ascertaining if they wero inconsistent with the detailed result shown in the Auditor General's report, and the audited accounts. To this request the AuditorGeneral replied that he had had the figures examined; that the apparent differences arose from the different methods of setting out transactions, and that the figures could be readily reconciled with the audited figures shown in the report. That, Mr Massey claimed, was the answer to Mr Wilford's charges, which, if they had been true, would have necessitated he and the officers of tho Treasury going to gaol. The officers of the Treasury felt very keenly about the hon, member's misrepresentations. Mr Massey then dealt with the question of the interest-bearing assets of the Dominion, as the result of which ho claimed that, if things went on as they were going now, in ten years these assets would pay the whole of the interest on the public debt He next referred to the pro.l:s made on transactions in London, which were very handsome. Then' were other points to which he would like to reply, but they could stand over until the Bills came down. . The House then agreed to the motion that it go into Committee of Suppl" to consider the Estimates. Mr Massey immediately moved to report progress, and the House rose at midnight till 2.30 p.m. on Tuesday. LEAGUE'S STATEMENT UNTRUE. (sriCliL TO "THE P8853.") WELLINGTON, August 8. Speaking on the subject of immigration, Mr Massey made a further referee; to the circular of tho New Zealand League. The League had said that he had used his position in England to make sure that immigrants who came here were supporters of tho Eeform Party. (Laughter.) There was not a single word of truth—not -\ svllable of truth—in that statement. "A member: Nobody believes there is. Mr Massey: They would be foolish if they did. Mr Holland: Would you mind telling us who is responsible? Mr Massey: I could pick it in two. I have my own opinion, but the time has not come to make their names public. Tho time will como, and when it does I will not hesitate to do it. t believe, myself, that the thing is libellous, but I am not troubling about that.