NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE

Press, Volume LIX, Issue 17691, 17 February 1923, Page 13

NO-CONFIDENCE DEBATE

h' Jg§TERDAFS y s Beeches. S**S« T iih»f ' *^t >ru * r y i - J lll Address-in-Eeply ; |pJ£3jP J* the House of Bepref|ll£ft^ y by Mr P. Langstone who said the truest tthswfv in tha debate had been Mlßißter 0f Cußtoinß Present political sit- , T . nothin g more than sham Ki,.*" the sham fight -v9H*!i y Sat doWtt to dealing «B8K? ploblemß of tbe day--58M82L , and su PPorted tho the Goverament's HHEIEr these institutions. BHgga!"-*** ««Ottgh the whole ■fcSJS 1 * >"■««»»,««■ Blrllifefc coiududing with

an appeal for proportional representation as the best means of securing the objectives set out. Mr J. A. Lee (Auckland East) declared that the distinctive feature between Labour and the other parties in the House was that, while the Liberals and Reformers agreed and disagreed upon almost every question before the country, every Labour candidate stood on the same platform, proving there was solidarity of opinion and objective in the ranks of Labour which did not exist in the ranks of their opponents. He made a strong appeal for increased pensions for disabled soldiers, and protested against soldiers being refused employment in the Education Department. He protested against the prosent censorship on literature. A party which seemed unable to select suitable literature for its own reading presumed to say what literature other people should read. He condemned expenditure on H.M.S. Chatham or other warships to the detriment of Public Works, education, and othor necessary public services. Money so spent would be better applied to aiding the mercantile marine, so as to relieve producers from exploitation by the shipping combine. He contended that the Government had not increased pensions, as it claimed, because the purchasing power of money was less than formerly. Mr J. W. Munro (Dunedin North), after congratulating the Speaker on his election, declared that the result of the recent election showed that the people of the country concluded that the Government only represented vested interests. Referring to the cost of living, he said it was the duty or" the Government to securo a better standard of living, and this had not been done by the present Government. Comparing the Government with a board of management of a business concern, ilr Munro contended that it had not managed its business so as to produce dividends, therefore it should be turned out to make room for men who knew the people's needs. The Liberal Party, which once stpod. for the interests of the people, had lost that view of its functions, and was no more worthy of confidence that the Reformers. People were beginning to recognise that the allegations of unconsti- j tutionaiism levelled against the La- ! hour Party were unfounded, and the result was seen in the increased Labour representation in Parliament. That representation would increase till, before long, the working people of the country, who were in the majority, would' be able to put in a board of management of their own. He declared that the cut in the Civil Service bonuses was engineered outside of Parliament, and in making it the Government had simply carried out the orders of employers' federations and farmers' unions, who were behind the Reform Party, and who wanted to see wages reduced. Yet they said (if Labour got on the Treasury benches it would be. ruled by a caucus outsideMr Munro appealed for a revision of the legislation dealing with provision for disabled soldiers, whose lot in many cases bordered on the tragic, so that nioro equitable assistance could be given. He condemned the Government's housing policy, which had completely failed to meet the necessities of the people. Mr K. McKeen (Wellington South) contrasted the Labour Party with the other parties in the House, declaring that the former represented the wageearning community , of thje country, while the Reform and Liberal Parties alike stood for vested interests. There was no real difference between the latter parties. Dealing with the cost of living and unemployment, he declared that the workers were twenty per cent, worse off now than in 1914. While people were unable to get work in the Dominion, the Government was bringing out immigrants on a scale larger than was ever known before, intensifying unemployment. Shipping combines and banking combines were declared to exist to the detriment of the people, and were to be swept away by the Labour movement. Mr McKeen concluded by denouncing the housing policy of the Government, which, he said, failed to meet the requirements of the people. THE DIVISIONS. MR HOLLAND'S AMENDMENT NEGATIVED. No other speaker being prepared to address the House, at 4.40 the Speaker put Mr H. E. Holland's amendment, whereupon the Liberals, except Messrs Isitt, Witty, Atmore, and Bell, walked out of the chamber, refusing to vote. Mr Holland's amendment was as follows: We would respectfully draw your Excellency's attention to some of the reasons why your present advisers have lost the confidence of i a majority of the people of New [ Zealand:— (1) The Government's financial policy and wage-reducing legislation, both with respect to the Public Service and the workers in private employment, has placed the burden of taxation upon those citizens least able to bear it. (2) The Government has not made proper provision for housing the people, and has made no effective attempt to cope with the problem of unemployment. (3) The Government has made no provision for increased and livingstandard pensions for the aged and widows and orphans, the industrially incapacitated, and no pensions whatever for the blind. We would further draw your Excellency's attention to the unsatisfactory constitutional position which | has arisen as a result of the undemocratic nature of the first-past-the-post system, which makes it possible for a minoritv to defeat the will of the majority" and this House is therefore of the opinion that the present Parliament should enact a bona fide system of proportional, representation.

Ona division being taken, the voting For Mr Holland's amendment .. 18 Against Mr Holland's amendment 40 The supporters of the amendment were the Labour Party, plus Mr H. Poland (Ohinemuri), while the Government party were augmented by the Witt ° f MeSSrs Atmore > Bell > Isitt, and DEFEAT OF MR WILFORD'S AMENDMENT. The Speaker then put the amendment moved by Mr T. M. Wilford as follows: We feel, it however, to be our duty to submit to your Excellency that your Excellency's Government does not possess the confidence of the House or the country. On a division being taken, the voting was:— Tor the amendment .. 36 Against the amendment .. 39 Division List. The following is the division list:— For Mr Wilford's Amendment (36): Armstrong McKay Atinore McKeen Bartram Macpherson Buddo Masters Corrigan Monteith De La Perrelle Munro ' Edie Murdoch Forbes 0 'Brien Fraser Parry Howard Poland Hanan Ransoine Holland Savage Jordon Sidey Langstone Smith Lee Sullivan Lye Thomson McCombs Veitch Mcllvride Wilford Against Mr Wilford's Amendment (39): Anderson Luke Bell Lysnar Kitchener McLeod Bollard Massey Burnett Nash Coates Nosworthy Dickson, J. M. Parr Dickson, J. S. Pomare Field Potter Girling Rhodes, Sir E. H. Glenn Rhodes, T. W. Guthrie Rolleston, F. J. Harris Rolleston, J. 0. Hawken Stewart Henare Sykes Hockley Willianiß Hudson Witty Hunter Wright Isitt Young Linklater Pairs: Ngata Herries Horn Uru Debate Resumed. Mr J. McCombs (Lyttelton) said that members who had given the Government the majority received the definite support of the electors, who were definitely opposed to the continued existence of the Government. Mr Massey: No. Mr McCombs: "The position is that the Prime Minister will not take his licking like a man. Parliamentary government is definitely on its trial, when Parliament ceases to represent the will of the people, from whom Parliament is supposed to derive its mandate and authority to govern. The present position in New Zealand is an outrage, and a travesty on democracy." It was not the fate of a party which was being decided, but the whole system Of Parliamentary government which was on its trial. The will of the people was being defied, and Parliament would have to get a new sanction and renewed prestige as the result of what had happened that after: noon. He declared that the Government's claims as to what it had done in providing housing for the people were misleading. Instead of 12,000 houses being provided, only half of that number were built. As to wage reduction, Mr McCombs said the position of the worker was that he was receiving an increase of 28 per cent, in wages to meet a 62 per cent, increase in the cost of living. This problem of the cost of living was not created by the war; the war had only accentuated it. The Prime Minister had undertaken in 1920 to increase public servants' wages in proportion to the rise in the cost of living, but he had not honoured that promise.

Kesuming his speech aj; the evening fitting, Mr McCombs criticised the Government for not following the example of Australia in purchasing ships during the war period, whereby freights had been kept down. The Federal Government's enterprise had resulted dn a profit for five years exceeding the cost of the ships. Commenting on the suggested electoral reform, he declared that the second ballot and alternative vote were worse than the first-past-the-post system, bad as that was. True representation of the people in Parliament could only be attained throug-h the medium of proportional representation. Mr H. Atmore (Nelson) commented adversely on the remarks made by the Minister of Customs in relation to the Liberals, in suggesting that the Liberals should assist the Reform Party. Thp Minister had used terms which could only breed unfriendliness, instead of being conciliatory. Mr Atmore condemned the activities of Mr Howard Elliott, who, at the recent election, had exerted a disintegrating influence which especially affected Liberal and Labour candidates. Mr Atmore then criticised the Labour policy, contrasting Labour's talk about the brotherhood of man with Labour's antagonism to the.immigration of people from Britain to the better conditions prevailing in New Zealand, which was among the richest countries in the world, despite its heavy war debt. The Dominion needed population, and it should be recruited from our own kith and kin, otherwise our empty spaces assuredly would sooner or later be filled by people of an alien race. Dealing with wages and the standard of living to-day, as compared with 1914, Mr Atmore said conditions in New Zealand depended upon the Stabilisation of Europe, and to secure this, production must be increased. Without an increase in production, which was the real wealth of the country wag es equal to the prices of commodities could not be paid, nor could anything be done to reduce the country's indebtedness. Hard work was the only way to improve the conditions of the people and the country. "You can't get more by producing less," he said. Mr "V. H. Potter (Eoskill) congratulated the Prime Minister on obtaining such a large amount of support at the recent election, in spite of the difficulties arising out of the war's aftermath. Referring to the attacks on Mr Howard Elliott, Mr Potter said he supported that gentleman and the organisation he represented, because it vras founded to counteract the Roman Catholic Federation which, in 1911, entered into the sphere of politics. The Protestants did not raise the sectarian issue. The P.P.A. simply arose to protect Protestant interests. He considered that the Public Service was too large for the size of the country's population. Touching on the threeparty question, he urged that if the Liberals really had the country's interests at heart, they would have to sink personal ambition and assist the Reform Party, so that the stability of the Government could be assured. This was urgently needed in the interests of trade, commercej and production.

Mr J. R. Corrigan (Patea) said if the Labour members would only devote their energies towards persuading the workers of the Dominion to make individual effort, and to encourage tnntt they would be performing a signal service to the country, because there could be no progress without individual effort. If a worker selling ins labour did not give his employer tun value, then he would be just as big a profiteer as any merchant who was lovercharging his customers. ine land of the Dominion could not now be nationalised, but it could be more closely settled. -in? Bank of New Zealand should be taken over, not by confiscation, but by fair purchase. The profits of the bank were mostly made out of the primary producers, and it would be of benefit to them as well as to ail other taxpayers if those profits were j made for the country. i Mr F. N. Bartram (Grey Lynn) said the Government Party was very much interested in sheep, rabbits, and wire I netting, but when the Labour Party j asked them to give attention to problems that mattered to the common people ! of the Dominion, they at once became dull-eyed and listless. It was tnii indifference to human interests on the. part of tho Reformers that had induced him to record the vote he had given I against tho Government that day. Mr G. McKay (Hawkc's Bay) said Eeform was undoubtedly the remnant ' of the old Conservative Party, whereas I the Liberals had always stood for the mass of the people, and that at least was one of the differences between the two parties. END OF DEBATE. Messrs F. Lye (Waikato) and J. "Murdoch (Marsden) also spoke. At 1.30 a.m. Mr Girling briefly replied. This closed the debate, and the House agreed to the Address-in-Reply. Mr Massey suggested to Mr Holland that he might drop his breach of privtlege motion concerning the Christchurch "Press." At 1.40 a.m. the House rose till 2.30 p.m. next day.