WAR REGULATIONS BILL.

Press, Volume LII, Issue 15648, 21 July 1916, Page 7

WAR REGULATIONS BILL.

THE early closing ISSUE. second reading debate. (SPF.CTAT, TO "THE rBF.SS.") WELLINGTON, July 20. The adjourned debate on the War Jte-rulations Bill was resumed in the House thi* afternoon, when the early closing issue immediately came to the fore. }Ir Statham imparted some liveliness to the debate by emphatically denyi.ig that he had aisisted in deliberately "talking out" the report of the M to 2 Petitions Committee upon the oa-In-closing petition.-!. experience in matau;?a. Mr J. G. Anderson said that tho-'o who fiupported early closing had no desire to attempt to mollycoddle the eoldiers, who wcie a very .-o'.er lot of men <»n the whole. He ront'-nded that tho consumption of liquor wouid be lessened if the hotels were clo-icd at an earlier hour. In Mataura tho sale of liquor had materially decreased since No-licenfio, despite the facilities afforded by the breweries for its purchase. Mr Wilford: Don't people drink in their own home;-, instead of in the hotels? Air Anderson replied that whilst there were undoubtedly many keg parties, the {jjinking in homes was not so great n<; ' was often represented. He had previously voted for license, but after seeing the effect of No-liecnse he iad voted for it ever since. He would support a reduction of hotel hours. Upon the subject of compensation, he thought »n arrangement should bo made between the landlords and tenants, but thero was no reason why any compensation should be paid. A "MODERATE" VIEW. Mr Wdkinson said he was a moderate and believed in somo curtailment 0 f the tours for the sale of liquor. The Bill provided for anti-shouting, and lie jould see no reason why they should not go a stop,further. His suppoit of early closing was based on economic grounds. Ho thought that twelve home a day was sufficient for tho salo of liquor, but the question was when the twelve hours should ntart. He had •done his best to bring about a compromise on thi« matter, and he hoped that a compromise would yet be arranged. If tho hourri were not curtailed an attempt would bo made to obtain a referendum. "The Tradi" would be well advised to agree to a compromise, as there was no doubt a-s to what the result of a referendum would he.

Mr Wilford: How can you move for a referendum? It would be nn appropriation clause, as the cost would bo £30,000 or £40 3 000. Mr Wilkinson: "I cannot say how it would be done, hut the- House, I understand, can' indicate its wishes" He referred to the success of early closing in Australia. The Hon. A, L. Herdman: In Adelaide >they have closcd the hotels at 6 o'clock, hut now there is more drinking than ever. Mr Wilkinson: Well, that should suit "The Trade." NOT TALKED OUT. Mr Statham spoke regarding a charge that had been mndp against him in connexion with the "talking out" of the report of the M to Z Petitions Committeo. He asked whether Mr Isitt really thought that he took part in the discussion with the intention of "talking out" tho report. Mr Isitt: J know that your Whip, Mr Dickson, was travelling round the House getting members to speak. Mr Statham: I took no part whatever in any "talking-out." Mr Isitt": j accept your statement. Mr Statham: Yet the samo evening someone sent a telegram to .Ihinodin eta ting that I and six others had "talked oilt" the report. A Voice: A dirty trick. Mr Statham said that he had merely given a resume of what took place before the committee, yet he Had been attacked unfairly for having taken part in a "conspiracy." Mr Statham proceeded to read extracts from the '"Vanguard," when he was checked by the Speaker, who said he could not read anything reflecting on. the actions of members in the House.

Mr Wilford: You can raise it as a question of privilege if you like. . ' JVtr Ptotham: I don't wish to do that. There are, I believe, legal means by which I can mako these gentlemen realise what they have been saying, but , I won't say anything about that in the • meantime. I have ' been receiving a forge number of anonymous letters weatenincr mo. Mr "Wilford: My gracious, -we have all had those for years and years. Mr Statham added that he would not be swayed in his action by any fear of persona] consequences. In referring to what had been said regarding the poldsers, he said he regretted that anyone should have referred to some of ■ the soldiers as "sodden lumps of Awn," as had been done by one witness. As to compensation, somo of the .witnesses before the committee had expressed the opinion that compensation. WKrald be given. It was not fair that ■ in the middle of the three years' term tney shonkl inflict a loss on tho hotelkeeDers by closing their- houses earher ■witnout nt>y>'ncr compensation. • MrlsiH: W-s it done w>en the hours reduced from eleven to ten? «. : If a wrong was done J"»n. it is no reason why a wrrng should done now. , Mr Isitt: I do not agree that a wrong was done. , Mr Statham urged that a restrictive should be placod upon liouor at its Wurce. This would mean that every-- ' t°dy would bear a nortion of the burden. AN ELOQUENT ADVOCATE. Mr L. M. Isitt, replying to Mr Sta"JMn, said that ho had no connexion *ith the "Vanguard,"' had not contributed to it for three years, and had not Men the statement referred to until lie . wl been shown it by a member of the .tumso. He accepted Mr Statham's asjWrance that he did not know what was going; on, but he maintained that those •Mwaated with him were fully advised sc^eme ) and the last speaker on was as k°d to "carry on" till ' w H en the report was "talked IS ' congratulated the Minister of Public Health uxkhi his speech Opon venereal disease, and went on to **8?® that there wa« a very close conv «t»°n between drink and venereal WSease. If they really desired to prei JPT® the health of the soldiers it was duty to lessen their temptation the hours for the retail sale ?* hquor. Various officers had assured that the efficiency of the soldiers *0« affected 10 per cent, by liquor, but mis. question did not only affect the •oiaier; it concerned the whole econoposition of tho Dominion. It was patriotic to ask tho women of the -•country to give up their men and at the time seek to protect the financial i nterests of "the Trade" from the ./SjfiMest disturbance. The evidence of professor H. D. Bedford before the . gpWaittee had been carefully left alone ' "J. the advocates of liquor. Ho had that it was the bounden duty of S? Empire to economise. Should we heein at the chief sources of waste,

which were drinking and gambling, each of which evil consumed £1.000.U00 a year? Most men admitted tliat to shorten the hours of hotels would do good, but it was urged in defence that to do so would be to work injury to the licensee. It was even claimed that to close tho hotels at six o'clock would involve tho Trade in a loss of £1,200.000, but this was merely extravagance. The

".'■crap of paper" referred to as between tho licensee and the country was not a contract, but merely a permit. That licenso had already been modified at various times, and if the same power of modifi ation were cxereised now, no special case for compensation could be made out. If the wholesale branch of the Trado benefited by tho changed conditions, then it should be more heavily taxed. and an adjustment made with tho retail branch. TOO MUCH COERCION. Dr. A. K. Newman, referring to venereal disease, complimented the Minister on the matter of his speech, but said iie did not agree with the njquentiy-expiossed opinion that these di-iv.s,'s were rife. The diseases were li'ii iwai'y to prevalent as they weie in the old countrus. The Minister's proposals were fnil of coercion, and one of the clauses was an insult to every v.!'.n;i:i in Nov.- Zealand. It was a wrong clause; it virtually re-enacted the <.'.D. Act. The Minister was going tho v.-rung way to work to stamp out tli" disease, and there was a right way !iy v. iiic-h he could do much good work. I'or tho administration of any su.'h legislation there should be women magistrates and women police. It was quite wrong that tho administration of the Act should lie left wholly to men [olk'o. He would divide the House on this subject, because he did not believe in it. Oil the liquor question, hi! upbraided the Government for having refused to. take any action to reduce the eonsuniyt'on of liquor. The Government had not even taxed liquor enough. Although live millions more taxation had l>een rut upon the people, ho added, the taxation on beer was almost nil. He believed that there was a general opinion in all ranks of society all over New Zealand that the hours lor the sale ol : liquoj- should be reduced. If the House would not reduce j tho hours, it could at. least insist upon | a referendum,.and leave the whole question for determination by the people. It, v>:i« idle to say that there was no drunkenness in New Zealand: there wero too many evidences of it in any town in our country. -Mr P W ehb said he had alway» regarded "Mr Boozo' as nil enemy, ana ho hoped to continue to do so all his life. Ife objected, however, to the idea of tho Hill, jvhich was ' Government by regulation." AN UNUSUAL POINT. Mr Wright held that the publication of the speech of the Minister of Public Health was a breach of tho Indecent Publications Act, and future pamphlets would probably be breaches of that Act unless it were amended. He was glad that- tliis question of venereal disease nad been taken up. To many women this subjcct was anathema, but because of their very innocence of the world it v as necessary that an educational campaign should be entered upon. At the same timo he thought there was too much powei given in the Bilj for tho Government to act by regulations. Upon the liquor question he pointed out that in Dunedin and Christchurch and Wellington the Press was asking for gome restriction of hotel hours, and this was a fair reflection of public opinion. No question of breaking a contract came into the matter, for tho licenses were issued only for one year, and that was all that they were bound by.

Mr McCombs referred to the action taken in various Australasian States, and urged that a similar eou-so should be taken liore, of enabling thf- peoplo to vote upon the question of what hours the hotels should remain open. NO CHANGE NEEDED. Mr Scott said that those'who were advocating early closing wore aiming at the hotolkcepor. Why did they not go to the root of the matter and lTnpo'so such a heavy tariff as would compel the peoplo to be sober? Ho had no connexion with "the Trade," but he could not disguise from himself the fact that if those hours were restricted, very great, harm would bo dono to the licensees. So far as the soldiers wore concerned, he had been surprised at the excellence of their behaviour. It was ridiculous to say that early closing was necessary for the soldier. When the Prohibitionists found that this cry was becoming unpopular they said that it was necessary for economic reasons. Well, if it were necessary on those grounds, he would support it, but he did not think the need had been proved. To take a referendum now would be unfair— sheer hypocrisy. Mr Payne pointed out that social conditions encouraged some measure of Erostitution, as economic reasons forade n.en marrying until they were about, 34 years of agf- on the average, whereas they had their natural functions from tne age of 14. While this was so it was sheer hypocrisy to rail against prostitution. The only real remedy was education, which should begin early. The common-sense way was to. teach men how to eradicate the disease, which medical iaen said could easily be done. They should also be taught how to avoid the disease. He agreed that the quack should be suppressed by the most 'ifiid means. Un tne liquor question .Mr Payne held that the- fanatical section of the Prohibition Party was seizing upon the war as a pretext to accomplish what they would be unable to secure otherwise. MINISTER IN REPLY.

Tho Hon. A. L. Herdman, in reply, pointed out that early closing would mean tho dismissal of a large number of employees right througnout A ew Zealand. This would flood the. whole labour market of Now Zealand with idle men. That would be a serious matter, lie joined in congratulating, the Minister of Public Health upon his bold and courageous spoecli, but the matter that had been principally discussed was the regulation of tho hours of hotels. Inis discussion showed clearly that the Probation Party had made the occasion one for advocating their own ends. Ho held that it was at such a time to consider anything other than . the prosecution of the war, and he ventured to assert that there would never have been any such advocacy as this except for the presence of soldiers m tho large cities. It was admitted even by tho Prohibitionists that there had been very little drunkenness on the part of the soldiers. If this were so, why was there any demand for a change P It had been asserted that the nation was in the grip at present of its greatest enemy—drink. Well, if that were so, it had performed some remarkable feats in placing such a Navy upon tho fiea, and such an Army in the field as was now in France, and also such an output of munitions as was recorded, besides financing very largely some of its Allies. These were remarkable feats for a nation in tho grip of its strongest enemy. The real object of the Prohibitionists was to take advantage of the present position, and close tho hotels as far as they could, and tho facts did not warrant any such drastic chango. Tho evidonce of the police was that there was no causo for any such change. Thc_ military evidence should carry weight. Colonel Potter and Colonel Adams both declared that it was in the interests of the- soldiers that the hotels should remain open as at present, and as Minis-ter-in-Charge of the police, he endorsed this view. If a change were made the condition of the soldiers in the back streets would be far worse than at present. The general attitude of tho early closing advocates was that tho hotel door should be closed to the soldier. Well, where were they to go? They should not deny to soldiers who were going awav to fight for their country the little liberty that was theirs. From tho point of view of efficiency, could it be suggested that there was any lack

of this on tho part either of our soldiers or our civilian population ? There was no evidence to justify any 6uch claim. Then as to the argument of economy, he asked why select the hotels. Wha*t right had any class of people to make a special attack on one Picture snows were ''waste," but would early closing apply to them? As for a referendum, he did not believe that the voice of the people was always right. At the outset of the war compulsory military training would have been rejected by the people of Britain. There were times when tho opinion of the few was perhaps sounder than that of the many. If temperance were to lie secured it would be won by teaching young men to be self-reliant. Unless this were done, our nation would be a weak one. The Bill was read a second time, and the House rose at 11.40 p.m. A DAYLIGHT SAVING PROPOSAL. (SrECIAL TO "THE rIIESS.") WELLINGTON. July 20. Mr Sidev proposes to move an amendment to the \\ ay Regulations Bill providing for daylight saving.