PRIME MINISTER REPLIES.

Press, Volume XLIX, Issue 14821, 12 November 1913, Page 9

PRIME MINISTER REPLIES.

MUCH OPPOSITION UPROAR. Mr Massoy. in his reply, which deprecated the utility of special legislation for ending tho striko, was subjected to a good deal of Opposition interruption and uproar, while the two "Red Fed." members, Messrs Wobb and Payne, were particularly wildly objectionable, and Mr Payno was constrainod to withdraw an unparliamentary expression. "Speaking from a considerable experience," said Mr Massey, "I say that special legislation is not going to settle the present difficulty, and that is what wo havo to deal with at the present .moment. Hβ would not criticiso the speech made by the hon. gentleman, but ho would say ho thought it would have been in tho interests of the country if this speech had never been made. (Opposition uproar and dissent). Mr Isitt and Mr Hanan interjected somo remarks about "party.' , which were inaudible. Mr Massey (heatedly): The statements mado are worthy of those honourable gentlemen. They are absolutely and utterly incorrect. Mr Payno: Oh. you miserable dodger. Immediately tho Speaker roso and Mr Massey resumed his eeat. Mr commanded Mr Payne to withdraw those words and express regret for having used them. Mr Payno made a proper withdrawal only at the point of the bayonet. First of all he withdrew the words "miserable dodger" as applied to Mr Massey. When commanded by tho Speaker ho withdrew tho whole phrase, but without expressing regret. At the third command only did Mr Payno sheepishly express regret. WHOSE PROPOSALS? Another little storm promptly rose between tho two leaders as to the origin of the proposals mado by Sir Joseph Ward. Mr Massoy said that proposals similar in substance to those used by Sir Joseph Ward bad been submitted to himself from another source. " Sir Joseph Ward promptly gav*v a comprehensive denial to any suggestion of lack of originality. Ho eaid he had had no communication of any sort from cither employers or employees. Mr Massey, repeated that proposals similar in substance had been submitted to him from another sourco, and ho had them in his office at that moment. If the hon. member thought that legislation would settle this dispute, ho was very much mistaken. No legislation yi this world would make men work who did not want to work, or compel employers to oraploy men whom they did not want to employ. They might just as well recognise that fact. FOREIGN AGITATORS CONDEMNED. "This dispute," continued the Prime < Minister, "lias now changed ite form, and has become a dispute between, leaders, of whom tiro most are foreigners, and are not New Zealanders and have nothing to do with New Zealand. This is a disputo between them and between the producers and employers of New Zealand, and that is ivhat "makes it difficult to settle. If we had to deal with New Zealanders, thcro would have been no difficulty at all in securing a settlement, and the sooner some of theso people who assumed to lead the workers ebook the dust of New Zealand off their feet, tho better it would be for New Zealand and the better for New Zealand workers. 'The time is now come," eaid Mr Massey, "to speak oat, and I am going "to do it." Legislation had been placed upon tbo Statute Book many years ago, he said, to prevent and settle industrial difficulties, and ho believed that, so far as unionism was concerned, that legislation was successful and sufficient for the purpose. But they had to g«t people to agree before tho Act could work. Tf that legislation was not sufficient th<»n hn would refer members to tho legislation before Parliament now. AGREEMENT ESSENTIAL TO LEGISLATION. "But," interjected Mr Russell, "we want legislation to deal with tbo present position." Mr Massey: "No legislation will settle he present "position." Hon. members, ho went on, ought to understand that as soon as tho contending parties agreo to a then legislation may lx» useful, but not before theifc. Mr Eil: Step in before, or they won't agreo. Mr Massey: I know better than that J T know that wiser counsels aro beginning to prevail. At Auckland twdrO vessel* aro bring worked to-day wittf 400 men, and that is a good indication. Mr Wel>b: Of what* Mr Massoy: Of a peaceful settlement of the difficulty. Mr Webb: A pracful 'settlpment by force. (Cries of "Order 1 Order!") • THE ARBITRATION BILL. Mr Ma&sey proceeded to call attention io the Arbitration Act Amendment Bill now beforo Parliament, which makes provision for a secret ballot before a strike may take place. Sir .Joseph Ward enquired at.this stage if it was not correct*that tho chairman of the Labour Bills Committeo had said that Mr Massoy world drop this Bill after iis second Teadwig. Mr Massey replied that that statement was not correct, and if he did nothing else, he would take out partt

J: five and six of that Amending Bill and "! ask Parliament to pass them. 'i, Mr Bradney, as chairman of the ,f committee, denied having made any Midi statement. .. * An explanation offered later by Mr t Yciu-h teemed to account for the xnis- \ understanding. It was, that Mr f Massey had eaid he would take the se- | coml reading if only to reply to ceri tain misrepresentations which had been -J made. , * Mr "Massey cited other provisions \ contained in the Bill, and said that j he could conceiv-G of no other better * provisions to prevent a crisis, and if ? the Opposition would help _ him he l would endeavour to place the Bill upon ; the Statute Book this session. J "IMPOSSIBLE-TO DIVULGE." I Mr Ell drew tho discussion back to ? the present position by asking how ' about tho present difficulty." : Mr Massev replied: '"There are .i many things" about which 1 cannot I take the House fully into my conhi deuce. I believe if this discussion -iad i not taken place this afternoon in alt J probability a settlement would have bwn reached before the end of the \ pre-out week." (Opposition dissent.) ■■ If the difficulty was prolonged, added \ the Prime Minister, he would say that I Sir Joseph Ward would bo responsible I to a certain extent by his speech made I that afternoon. It was a pity that i that .speech was made, for he believed dm', u> a certain extent it would have ) the 'oft'oot of prolonging very considerably the unfortunate crisis now ! reached.

SIR JOSEPH WARD PERSISTENT. ; Mny 1 bo allowed to say," said Sir Joseph' Ward as Mr Maseey sat down, '•that, I disagree with the Prime Minister's statement that legislation would be of no use. I believe it is absolutely essential." He was not in favour of tho*e who took the law into their own hands, but believed that a reasonable end could be made to the present state of tilings. The people were suffering(Mr Massey: Wo know that.) and he was receiving many messages which ho could not ignore as a public man. LABOUR R AMP ANT. The discussion closed with a rather hot scene occasioned by Mr Webb endeavouring to address the House. Tho debate between tho Leaders of the House had proceeded as a matter ot privilege, and was not upon any motion. When, therefore, Mr Webb rose- to speak he was cried down. Shouting to the Speaker, the Rod Fed. member said: ''Are Labour members to be gagged continually?" Subduing the loud cries of "Order!" "Order!" which fell thunderously upon Mr Webb, Mr Speaker gently explained ihe position to that member, and said that under tho Standing Orders he could not call upon him. ■At this Mr Webb bitterly remarked: "Then I understand the Labour Party is gagged."

The Speaker admonished Mr Webb for this observation, and that member (as ono learning wisdom late) then tried softer and more guileful tactics. Would ho bo in order in asking the indulgence of tho House to say a few words on behalf of the men on strike, he asked courteously.

Mr Speaker said that -was in order. He therefore put the question to the Chamber, but the House almost as" one man said "Xo."

"You ought to he ashamed of yourselves," retorted Mr Webb fiercely.

Mr Veitch. speaking softly as one in dangerous places, asked if the- Prim© Minister would later give an opportuntrr For the House to discuss the strike.

"With a twinkle in his eye. Mr Massey advised Mr Veitch to. put his question on the Order Paper. • Whereupon the irrepressible Mr Webb shouted : "Moro cowardice."' '

Once again the Speaker admonished Mr Webb, and then the discussion ended.